Smart Money has left the building… Have you?

[notme]

A massive short squeeze would make not just my day but possibly my whole year. It would be literally priceless.

The only thing that will get squeezed for the next few months is a honeycomb.

Use honey to lure out the bears so the bulls can take their coins cheaper?

[BTConomist]

A massive short squeeze would make not just my day but possibly my whole year. It would be literally priceless.

The only thing that will get squeezed for the next few months is a honeycomb.

Use honey to lure out the bears so the bulls can take their coins cheaper?

Now, that's a spirit!

See you at $2USD/BTC or less.

[BTConomist]

I don't get it. So because Fox Business did a piece on Bitcoin it means we are going down in price? I don't buy into fox anything but that twitter post and this thread just appear to be a manipulation of the market.

Gotta love the bee-ptimism.

I go out of my way to point out the obvious details behind the latest 2 month-long rally, yet the oblivious buzzing continues – GOLD, GOLD, GOLD… BUY, BUY, BUY!!!

Conclusion: the bees are not your average bulls.

[ineededausername]

Disclaimer: this is an Elliott wave post.  You might not really believe in them, in which case it's completely meaningless.



Wave 2 right now... next stop $4

[teflone]

Disclaimer: this is an Elliott wave post.  You might not really believe in them, in which case it's completely meaningless.



Wave 2 right now... next stop $4

Dude, I think I caught the proudhon..   

[ineededausername]

Disclaimer: this is an Elliott wave post.  You might not really believe in them, in which case it's completely meaningless.



Wave 2 right now... next stop $4

Dude, I think I caught the proudhon..   

Wait what, you're long term bearish too?!  What is the world coming to?

Or did you just see $4 and go "oh noes?"

[teflone]

Disclaimer: this is an Elliott wave post.  You might not really believe in them, in which case it's completely meaningless.



Wave 2 right now... next stop $4

Dude, I think I caught the proudhon..   

Wait what, you're long term bearish too?!  What is the world coming to?

Or did you just see $4 and go "oh noes?"

No, Im a believer but the manipulation I've saw lately is just ridiculous..

this game is rigged so long as everything trickles down to mtgox..

[Vandroiy]

ineedausername:

Dude, no matter whether it's from Elliott or summoning your ancestors, this kind of slope on logscale, with a length like the bubble, starting at 4? If I apply the bubble rally, which seems to be what the image does, we would end up around 250 USD/BTC on a time-scale of weeks.

Reality check: enable!

[Cluster2k]

The true believers in bitcoin should be buying up all the bitcoins they can while they're this cheap.  There is no asterisk on Bitconica's buy side, and anyway, true believers would use their own cash to reaffirm their convictions.

[proudhon]

The true believers in bitcoin should be buying up all the bitcoins they can while they're this cheap.  There is no asterisk on Bitconica's buy side, and anyway, true believers would use their own cash to reaffirm their convictions.

I think the reality is that there are very few true believers in bitcoin who have a lot of cash or bitcoins at MtGox.  I would be shocked to learn that the biggest players were in this for anything more than fiat profit, and with few exceptions it's the biggest players who move this market around.

[Dutch Merganser]

The true believers in bitcoin should be buying up all the bitcoins they can while they're this cheap.  There is no asterisk on Bitconica's buy side, and anyway, true believers would use their own cash to reaffirm their convictions.

I think the reality is that there are very few true believers in bitcoin who have a lot of cash or bitcoins at MtGox.  I would be shocked to learn that the biggest players were in this for anything more than fiat profit, and with few exceptions it's the biggest players who move this market around.

+1
That dirty, dirty fiat money, you don't want it, let me rub it all over myself, ummmmm...

[realnowhereman]

The true believers in bitcoin should be buying up all the bitcoins they can while they're this cheap.  There is no asterisk on Bitconica's buy side, and anyway, true believers would use their own cash to reaffirm their convictions.

Can't I believe in bitcoin and want to profit?  So far I haven't, but I'd like to.

If I sell at $7 and buy back at $5; then am I damaging bitcoin in some way?

I think it's dangerous to put ideology into a currency.  If everyone uses bitcoin to maximise their own profit, then good will emerge automatically (Adam Smith told us this 200 years ago).

Those people bouncing the price around, with presumably large amounts (to us) of cash will one day find that bitcoin has started to take hold on a massive scale and they will lose money on a bounce.  Then on the next bounce, and again, and again.  I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they are already losing money every bounce.

I don't think they're doing any harm to bitcoin long term anyway.  Seriously, while the bitcoin economy is still small, it makes very little difference whether the price is $4 or $8.  If it becomes mainstream, then the price will need to be in the hundreds of dollars (FOREX does $4 trillion a day); and that will happen all on its own.

[Cluster2k]

The true believers in bitcoin should be buying up all the bitcoins they can while they're this cheap.  There is no asterisk on Bitconica's buy side, and anyway, true believers would use their own cash to reaffirm their convictions.

Can't I believe in bitcoin and want to profit?  So far I haven't, but I'd like to.

If I sell at $7 and buy back at $5; then am I damaging bitcoin in some way?

No, but the problem can be framed in another way.

I think it's dangerous to put ideology into a currency.  If everyone uses bitcoin to maximise their own profit, then good will emerge automatically (Adam Smith told us this 200 years ago).

There is a limit to Adam Smith's 'invisible hand': if everyone uses bitcoin to maximise their own profit while screwing everyone else over as hard as they can, eventually the players may tire of the game.  In some games the only way to win is not to play the game.  Human nature is pretty stubborn and downright stupid however, as evidenced by packed casinos around the world.  Maybe the players will never tire of the game.

Wild swings in price may result in many players losing the game, with a few large winners.  The large winners need more players in the game otherwise they'll be left with interesting electronic tokens that few want to buy.

If good comes automatically from players maximising their own profit, then I don't see what all the fuss is about with CFDs, Goldman Sachs, flash crashes and holding stocks for seconds before selling them.  Good does come automatically, naturally.

Those people bouncing the price around, with presumably large amounts (to us) of cash will one day find that bitcoin has started to take hold on a massive scale and they will lose money on a bounce.  Then on the next bounce, and again, and again.  I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they are already losing money every bounce.

That's assuming the large players are losing the game, not the small players.

I don't think they're doing any harm to bitcoin long term anyway.  Seriously, while the bitcoin economy is still small, it makes very little difference whether the price is $4 or $8.  If it becomes mainstream, then the price will need to be in the hundreds of dollars (FOREX does $4 trillion a day); and that will happen all on its own.

Bitcoin is just as useful as a means of transaction at $0.10 as it is at $10.  The problem is many people are not using it as a means of transaction: they're using it as a speculative vehicle for extracting profit.  New players need to enter the game or old losing players need to stump up more cash or the game ends.  Recent price activity is testing the conviction of the true believers.

[realnowhereman]

I think it's dangerous to put ideology into a currency.  If everyone uses bitcoin to maximise their own profit, then good will emerge automatically (Adam Smith told us this 200 years ago).

There is a limit to Adam Smith's 'invisible hand': if everyone uses bitcoin to maximise their own profit while screwing everyone else over as hard as they can, eventually the players may tire of the game.  In some games the only way to win is not to play the game.  Human nature is pretty stubborn and downright stupid however, as evidenced by packed casinos around the world.  Maybe the players will never tire of the game.

Assuming there is one big player; then the little people getting screwed tire quickly and the big player gains nothing.  Profit is not maximised.

But.. the big player's manipulation offers an opportunity for profit for another big player.  When bigguy1 swings the market; bigguy2 catches it and gets all bigguy1's coins cheap.

The point of maximising profit is that everyone is trying to do the same; and in the end the best way to profit is not by thieving, it is by providing something someone else wants.

If good comes automatically from players maximising their own profit, then I don't see what all the fuss is about with CFDs, Goldman Sachs, flash crashes and holding stocks for seconds before selling them.  Good does come automatically, naturally.

To be honest; I don't see what the problem with any of those things is.  I don't want to derail to a discussion about politics, but I do think if governments had stayed out of it (playing with someone else's money is a recipe for disaster) all of the above would either not have happened, or resulted in an opportunity for someone else to profit.  e.g. when RBS went crash in the UK; the supermarket chain Tesco might have decided to grab themselves a bargain where it not for the fact that government bailed RBS out.

Those people bouncing the price around, with presumably large amounts (to us) of cash will one day find that bitcoin has started to take hold on a massive scale and they will lose money on a bounce.  Then on the next bounce, and again, and again.  I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they are already losing money every bounce.

That's assuming the large players are losing the game, not the small players.

I was only speculating; but rather I'm assuming that a mass of small players will always outweigh any large player.

Bitcoin is just as useful as a means of transaction at $0.10 as it is at $10.  The problem is many people are not using it as a means of transaction: they're using it as a speculative vehicle for extracting profit.  New players need to enter the game or old losing players need to stump up more cash or the game ends.  Recent price activity is testing the conviction of the true believers.

It's difficult to say what is the "right" amount of speculation.  FOREX is $1.04 quadrillion a year.  World GDP is $60 trillion a year.  Who knows what the division of speculative to economic activity is?  We should expect volumes on the exchanges to be considerably larger than bitcoin GDP.

I'm not sure it's true to say that more cash needs to flow in; that assumes a zero sum game.  Economies aren't zero-sum.  If a real economy starts up using bitcoin then the price can increase without needing new fiat to prop it up.

(Edited: FOREX is $1.04 quadrillion a year; not $40 trillion -- don't know where I got $40 trillion from)

[GreekBitcoin]

i am prepared to buy at 2.5 again... not buying before 3

[BTConomist]

Oh, look... the wizard hat!

It's perfect for catching some of these bees.

BZZZZZ, BZZZZZ, BZZZZZ... GOLD, GOLD, GOLD!!!

[gewure]

The true believers in bitcoin should be buying up all the bitcoins they can while they're this cheap.  There is no asterisk on Bitconica's buy side, and anyway, true believers would use their own cash to reaffirm their convictions.

I think the reality is that there are very few true believers in bitcoin who have a lot of cash or bitcoins at MtGox.  I would be shocked to learn that the biggest players were in this for anything more than fiat profit, and with few exceptions it's the biggest players who move this market around.

+1
That dirty, dirty fiat money, you don't want it, let me rub it all over myself, ummmmm...

[BTConomist]

Supply and demand for bitcoins does not give BTC its value.
But supply and demand for goods/services denominated in BTC does.

P.S. Don't make me pull out the wizard hat again... Your honey is fake!

[damnek]

Let's have a look at this chart:

http://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions

Bitcoin is being used. Look at the increasing users at ogrr.com. People are starting to use Bitcoin.

[wobber]

OMG, OMG, bitcoin is used!

Seriously? I don't care how many people use bitcoin. I just care for the few dozen people that know WHAT is Bitcoin, have LOTS of money at their disposal, and CAN MOVE the market.