Why do you mine on deepbit?

[Gabi]

Davinci pool has 0% fee for example, and pay per share.

[os2sam]

because other pools dont take your money in the first place

Referring to "other pools that don't take your money".

1. Why are they running pools in the first place?
2. Since they have no income how do they continue to operate?
3. Do you think it's a good idea to trust someone who purposely operates a service at a loss?
4. And please give me a list of "pools dont take your money in the first place".  I don't know of a single one in existence.
Sam

[Costia]

because other pools dont take your money in the first place

Referring to "other pools that don't take your money".

1. Why are they running pools in the first place?
2. Since they have no income how do they continue to operate?
3. Do you think it's a good idea to trust someone who purposely operates a service at a loss?
4. And please give me a list of "pools dont take your money in the first place".  I don't know of a single one in existence.
Sam

1) not everyone mines for profit.
2) optional donations
3) no loss, dont worry about them. those people have a real job
4) BTCserv - 0% PPS, p2pool, if you have more than 1Ghash you can get 110% PPS . a post above you mentioned another one

[RandyFolds]

Man, how is it that so many seemingly intelligent people on these forums don't understand what construes libel and slander, let alone the differences between the two?

Slander - a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report.

DEEPBIT = ENEMY OF BITCOIN

Maybe I can't prove that this statement is slanderous.  But I doubt that he can be proven to be true.

I've never said anything about libel nor being "seemingly intelligent" either. 
Sam

That statement is in print, making it libel.





Point proven.

Except that one of the most common defenses to libel is "reasonable belief" that the statements are true, where "reasonable belief" usually means that the idea can be entertained by a rational person.  Clearly, many here are entertaining the idea by trying to form rational arguments against the OP.  

I couldn't care less about the basis and defense of the claims, I was merely pointing out that for a bunch of intelligent people, few seem to grasp the difference between the two terms.

I like Tycho, he seems intelligent and industrious...but I would never point my power at deepbit. It is just too counter-intuitive to the reasons I am here. If I set up rigs again any time soon, p2pool will be it, with a voluntary donation to support its development.

[os2sam]

because other pools dont take your money in the first place

Referring to "other pools that don't take your money".

1. Why are they running pools in the first place?
2. Since they have no income how do they continue to operate?
3. Do you think it's a good idea to trust someone who purposely operates a service at a loss?
4. And please give me a list of "pools dont take your money in the first place".  I don't know of a single one in existence.
Sam

1) not everyone mines for profit.
2) optional donations
3) no loss, dont worry about them. those people have a real job
4) BTCserv - 0% PPS, p2pool, if you have more than 1Ghash you can get 110% PPS . a post above you mentioned another one

1. Mining and running a pool are two different things.
2. A donation is still a fee.
3. Just because a person has a day job would justify running a pool at a loss?
4. If Davinci and BTCserv really "dont take your money in the first place", how do they stay in business.  I haven't checked these pools but I would assume they have a default donation level set that most people don't change.  But I don't know for sure.  But if so that is still a fee and they are taking your money in the first place.  And there would be nothing wrong with that.
Sam

Edit: Davinci AKA NMCBit currently pays PPS .0000373109824026.  If there he were not charging a fee he would be paying .0000382342505475.
Sam

[P4man]

I also dont understand why DDoS resistance is an issue. Use a miner with failover capabilities like cgminer. If your pool goes down for whatever reason, it just switches to a backup pool, or p2pool or even solo if all your pools are down.

[Costia]

they are not making you pay anything
i think that on BTCserv the default is 0% donation. anyway you can change it. try asking tycho not to pay him 10%
good luck with that
they are not operating at a loss. if you want to know how - ask them, not me.
this is also a hobby, some people run those servers on their private PC's - so it doesnt really cost them a thing.
you are welcome to stay at deepbit since it seems you only trust people who demand you to pay them for something that you do.

[os2sam]

they are not making you pay anything
i think that on BTCserv the default is 0% donation. anyway you can change it. try asking tycho not to pay him 10%
good luck with that
they are not operating at a loss. if you want to know how - ask them, not me.
this is also a hobby, some people run those servers on their private PC's - so it doesnt really cost them a thing.
you are welcome to stay at deepbit since it seems you only trust people who demand you to pay them for something that you do.

The point is they are taking money, they have to, even if it is truly just a hobby and they're running the pool on some old idle PC they  have laying around, which I doubt, it still cost's.

Just because DB or any other fee pool tries to calculate the cost of doing business and a profit margin and charges a hard fee for it doesn't make them "evil" or bad or wrong.  I wouldn't dream of asking Tycho to reduce his fee, which is 3% by the way, 10% is their PPS fee and I doubt very much that there are very many Mh/s being used on DB PPS side.

The something I do is mine.  I can solo mine or I can use a pool.  The pools are a service and they cost money to run.  Try posting to ask for help with solo mining and see how many people tell you how stupid your are.  Now we use a pool and we are being told again how stupid we are.

Just can't make some people happy.
And I am continuing to use DB and other pools.
Sam

[P4man]

Just because DB or any other fee pool tries to calculate the cost of doing business and a profit margin and charges a hard fee for it doesn't make them "evil" or bad or wrong.

Nope. But it begs the question why the miners are mining there. It does no good for their revenue, and it does bitcoin no good to have a few mega pools dominate the scene. The only one benefiting is Tycho.

[Costia]

if you have ~20Ghash or more solo is a good option
IMHO deepbit's service isn't worth the 3%/10%
and except loosing money by paying the pool's fees you also give up on the core ideas of bitcoin
currently ~3 people control the network. i dont think this is how a "decentralized crypto currency" should work
and after hearing from miners like you i cant blame tycho for this either. for some reason miners are attracted to whatever is the biggest thing right now.

[Costia]

Usually the best way to fix it is to actually do the research yourself and come to your own conclusions.

exactly
trust no one
especially not me

[Fiyasko]

Just because DB or any other fee pool tries to calculate the cost of doing business and a profit margin and charges a hard fee for it doesn't make them "evil" or bad or wrong.

Nope. But it begs the question why the miners are mining there. It does no good for their revenue, and it does bitcoin no good to have a few mega pools dominate the scene. The only one benefiting is Tycho.

From reading the forums for a long time, I am convinced it's mostly ignorance. I see a lot of people who think that you earn more Bitcoins in the largest pool. I'm not even talking about variance reduction here, they actually think they straight up earn more.

^When i was a bitcoin noob, I straightup thought that biggerpool=more coins. Reason? More shares (Dont bother explaining something, I know how it works now)
So, Yeah, Noobs flock to the big pool, No doubt, Can you change that? Prolly not, Why? Noobs are noobs. They just have to Learn to Switch.

On the topic of Variance, People fear smaller pools due to the possibilities of one day they earn .5, The next day they earn, 1, The next day .2, So they get spooked and goto the Lowest Variance pool, Wich is deepbit, (correct me if im wrong) Majority of people need to SEE stable income to feel safe when leaving some "valubles" at ANON's (tycho/slush/pedo) "House", when they see an unsteady flow of funds, They think somethings wrong, Or that they could do something to Steady it, Wich makes them feel 'Insecure'.

I sure as fuck didnt want to point my hashing power aaaaaaaaaanywhere when i first started, I thought bitcoins were some Police related "IMA CRACK YOUAR HDDS WITH YOUR OWN COMPUTING POWER" type of dealio.
So i ran solo for Daaaaaaaays with NoShow, swaped to Slush, Didnt want to wait 120blocks just to touch my funds (and when i saw an INVALID i panicked and ran thinking slush had stolen a full block, Again this is NOOB behavour) So i went to deepbit. Loved it, So i went looking for something better, Found BTCguild, thought the idea of multiple servers was Swag... Untill the DDoSing started (pretend your a noob, You dont know wtf a DDoS is and you dont know WHY your hashing power is all failing when aimed at a Specific spot) So, Scared again, I ran back to tycho's pool, Wich had active chatter in the thread about the pool being down and that the admin was "fixing it". And he did.. So since then, I have had Little reason to leave.

Noob=Run to deepbit
Learner=Experiment with pools, Will prolly choose a 0% one like BTCguild or Eligius
Experianced dude= Might chose Bitclockers (1%,prizes,livesupport) or perhaps something todo with Merged Mining
Guys who know what they're doing=P2Pool,Solo,Poolhopp
People who dont like variance=Deepbit/Slush/BTCguild

EDIT: So i just went around testing pools. And deepbit has the best latency for me, That alone is reason enough for me to stay.
 

[P4man]

EDIT: So i just went around testing pools. And deepbit has the best latency for me, That alone is reason enough for me to stay.
 

Really? Why? This isnt an FPS competition. See how many stales you get, even with a slightly higher ping. Ill eat my shoe if you get 3% stales on a decent pool.

[Gabi]

Better latency means easier headshot!

[[Tycho]]

Wasn't DB the first PPS pool?

Actually BitPenny was the first one, but he gone bankrupt later.

[Inaba]

EDIT: So i just went around testing pools. And deepbit has the best latency for me, That alone is reason enough for me to stay.

I call double bullshit on this.  Deepbit servers are going over a transatlantic link for you, there is absolutely no way you get better latency to Deepbit than some other servers.  Or did you mean you only tested ones that go over transoceanic links?

[Fiyasko]

EDIT: So i just went around testing pools. And deepbit has the best latency for me, That alone is reason enough for me to stay.

I call double bullshit on this.  Deepbit servers are going over a transatlantic link for you, there is absolutely no way you get better latency to Deepbit than some other servers.  Or did you mean you only tested ones that go over transoceanic links?

I shall start pinging again and post results, Because i have clearly made people mad...

Code:

Pinging deepbit.net [46.4.121.118] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 46.4.121.118: bytes=32 time=172ms TTL=53
Reply from 46.4.121.118: bytes=32 time=172ms TTL=53
Reply from 46.4.121.118: bytes=32 time=187ms TTL=53
Reply from 46.4.121.118: bytes=32 time=173ms TTL=53

Ping statistics for 46.4.121.118:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 172ms, Maximum = 187ms, Average = 176ms

Code:

Pinging pool.bitclockers.com [204.45.253.21] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 204.45.253.21: bytes=32 time=38ms TTL=55
Reply from 204.45.253.21: bytes=32 time=41ms TTL=55
Reply from 204.45.253.21: bytes=32 time=38ms TTL=55
Reply from 204.45.253.21: bytes=32 time=39ms TTL=55

Ping statistics for 204.45.253.21:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 38ms, Maximum = 41ms, Average = 39ms

Code:

Pinging mining.bitcoin.cz [176.31.157.133] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 176.31.157.133: bytes=32 time=169ms TTL=50
Reply from 176.31.157.133: bytes=32 time=169ms TTL=50
Reply from 176.31.157.133: bytes=32 time=168ms TTL=50
Reply from 176.31.157.133: bytes=32 time=168ms TTL=50

Ping statistics for 176.31.157.133:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 168ms, Maximum = 169ms, Average = 168ms

Code:

Pinging us.eclipsemc.com [208.110.68.114] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 208.110.68.114: bytes=32 time=86ms TTL=51
Reply from 208.110.68.114: bytes=32 time=88ms TTL=51
Reply from 208.110.68.114: bytes=32 time=86ms TTL=51
Reply from 208.110.68.114: bytes=32 time=74ms TTL=51

Ping statistics for 208.110.68.114:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 74ms, Maximum = 88ms, Average = 83ms

Code:

Pinging btcguild.com [108.60.208.157] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 108.60.208.157: bytes=32 time=125ms TTL=49
Reply from 108.60.208.157: bytes=32 time=128ms TTL=49
Reply from 108.60.208.157: bytes=32 time=126ms TTL=49
Reply from 108.60.208.157: bytes=32 time=131ms TTL=49

Ping statistics for 108.60.208.157:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 125ms, Maximum = 131ms, Average = 127ms

Code:

Pinging ra.mining.eligius.st [78.47.187.252] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 78.47.187.252: bytes=32 time=174ms TTL=53
Reply from 78.47.187.252: bytes=32 time=174ms TTL=53
Reply from 78.47.187.252: bytes=32 time=175ms TTL=53
Reply from 78.47.187.252: bytes=32 time=175ms TTL=53

Ping statistics for 78.47.187.252:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 174ms, Maximum = 175ms, Average = 174ms

hmmmmmmmmmm.... Clearly i am wrong.... I suppose i fucked up on my earlier testing? Somehow?

Edit: the dude below me stated where he was from, So i mayaswell do the same so that the two sets of pings can be compared.
From Canada!

Well... I would switch to BTCguild.. But they are Merged Mining,

[flower1024]

from germany:

EclipseMC (for me longest ping times but still got most hash out of it; for me pool with least possible stales)
ping -c 5 us.eclipsemc.com
PING us.eclipsemc.com (208.110.68.114) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 208.110.68.114: icmp_req=1 ttl=50 time=122 ms
64 bytes from 208.110.68.114: icmp_req=2 ttl=50 time=122 ms
64 bytes from 208.110.68.114: icmp_req=3 ttl=50 time=133 ms
64 bytes from 208.110.68.114: icmp_req=4 ttl=50 time=122 ms
64 bytes from 208.110.68.114: icmp_req=5 ttl=50 time=122 ms

--- us.eclipsemc.com ping statistics ---
5 packets transmitted, 5 received, 0% packet loss, time 21349ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 122.574/124.811/133.226/4.208 ms

DeepBit (Provider: Hetzner)
ping -c 5 pit.deepbit.net
PING pit.deepbit.net (46.4.121.118) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from static.118.121.4.46.clients.your-server.de (46.4.121.118): icmp_req=1 ttl=55 time=17.6 ms
64 bytes from static.118.121.4.46.clients.your-server.de (46.4.121.118): icmp_req=2 ttl=55 time=18.5 ms
64 bytes from static.118.121.4.46.clients.your-server.de (46.4.121.118): icmp_req=3 ttl=55 time=17.1 ms
64 bytes from static.118.121.4.46.clients.your-server.de (46.4.121.118): icmp_req=4 ttl=55 time=17.0 ms
64 bytes from static.118.121.4.46.clients.your-server.de (46.4.121.118): icmp_req=5 ttl=55 time=18.1 ms

--- pit.deepbit.net ping statistics ---
5 packets transmitted, 5 received, 0% packet loss, time 4006ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 17.005/17.695/18.540/0.606 ms

Eligius (Provider: Hetzner, i7 sponsored by MtGox for feeless transations)
ping -c 5 mining.eligius.st
PING ra.mining.eligius.st (78.47.187.252) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from ra.mining.eligius.st (78.47.187.252): icmp_req=1 ttl=55 time=18.4 ms
64 bytes from ra.mining.eligius.st (78.47.187.252): icmp_req=2 ttl=55 time=29.5 ms
64 bytes from ra.mining.eligius.st (78.47.187.252): icmp_req=3 ttl=55 time=17.9 ms
64 bytes from ra.mining.eligius.st (78.47.187.252): icmp_req=4 ttl=55 time=16.5 ms
64 bytes from ra.mining.eligius.st (78.47.187.252): icmp_req=5 ttl=55 time=16.9 ms

--- ra.mining.eligius.st ping statistics ---
5 packets transmitted, 5 received, 0% packet loss, time 4002ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 16.517/19.883/29.549/4.882 ms

P2Pool (my instance; Provider: hetzner)
ping -c 5 pool.k1024.de
PING pool.k1024.de (78.46.35.155) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from pool.k1024.de (78.46.35.155): icmp_req=1 ttl=55 time=18.3 ms
64 bytes from pool.k1024.de (78.46.35.155): icmp_req=2 ttl=55 time=16.8 ms
64 bytes from pool.k1024.de (78.46.35.155): icmp_req=3 ttl=55 time=17.7 ms
64 bytes from pool.k1024.de (78.46.35.155): icmp_req=4 ttl=55 time=17.2 ms
64 bytes from pool.k1024.de (78.46.35.155): icmp_req=5 ttl=55 time=17.3 ms

--- pool.k1024.de ping statistics ---
5 packets transmitted, 5 received, 0% packet loss, time 4006ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 16.890/17.507/18.353/0.525 ms

[[Tycho]]

hmmmmmmmmmm.... Clearly i am wrong.... I suppose i fucked up on my earlier testing? Somehow?

Some months ago we had US server too, that may explain your first results.

[Inaba]

So you have Eclipse at 83ms and Bitclockers at a phenomenal 43ms and your solution is to switch to BTCGuild at 127ms?  How does that even work out?

You can mine at EMC and turn off MM if you dislike it.  I'm not sure what Bitclockers policy is on MM.  But in all honesty, at your latency, it doesn't matter too much to begin with.  So the latency argument for mining on Deepbit is pretty much bunk due to transoceanic connections.  There may be other valid reasons and I'm not discounting them, but latency isn't one of them.  For Flower, though, it may make a slight difference, since he basically lives in the Hetzner datacenter