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Author Topic: Calling all Bitcoiners: SPEAK OUT against CIRCLE!  (Read 6751 times)
Carlton Banks
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May 18, 2014, 02:05:44 PM
 #101

But I trust someone who has been involved in major companies over a FUDster who considers himself a Sherlock Holmes villain wannabee who promotes distrust of government, money laundering, and privacy software from the anarchist makers who brought you the 3D printed handgun.  Is all of that going to take Bitcoin mainstream?  I'm all for privacy, but not for enabling fraud.
[...]
You don't like it?  Then don't use them.  But don't tell me what companies to use or trust.  I'll take them over your bitlaundering operation.   

<sigh> There are perfectly reasonable uses of CoinJoin or stealth addresses that have nothing to do with any kind of law breaking, even Benjamin Lawsky has stated exactly this. Just because you're hiding your big bitcoin bills from some people you send money to, doesn't automatically mean you're hiding it from tax collectors too. Get a grip.

Vires in numeris
cozk
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May 18, 2014, 02:08:28 PM
 #102

Who cares, deal with them if you want.

Why are you trying to make a choice for others.
greenlion
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May 18, 2014, 05:15:18 PM
 #103

Bitcoin _requires_ no central services of any kind...people do.

But should centralized services be _forbidden_? Clearly they can be no more forbidden than they can be required. Bitcoin will go on with or without centralized infrastructure...the exchange value of bitcoins, however, is very dependent on it's utility. I think Circle will help many people find Bitcoin useful that otherwise would not be able to use it.

Good luck with that argument on this forum.  I'm no fan of banks, especially after recently having my corporate account forcefully closed with no recourse or an admission of the real reason.  However, they are a needed system for a modern economy, and Bitcoin will need bank-like systems if it expects to cope with the transaction speed that people expect these days.

Bitcoin "banks" will happen.  You don't have to use them.  But if you want to be able to go to a restaurant or a store and pay with Bitcoin as quick and easy as a credit card, you're going to need a third party that will insure 0-conf transactions.  The two easiest ways to do that are a payment processor that offers vendors insured 0-conf transaction processing at the cost of a higher merchant fee (and service cancellations for high risk vendors), or a bank/banking network where the user has funds stored online in advance to be used for point of sale purchases.

This is the rational way to look at things. Decentralization isn't a religion. There are plenty of problems out there that we don't have decentralized solutions for, so there's no way around people wanting off-blockchain services at least for the time being.

It's all well and good for people to have opinions about shunning centralized actors, but one of the foundational cypherpunk ethics is show me the code. We don't have the software yet to do everything the most ideologically-pure way that would satisfy zealots, so they're just going to have to deal.
Beliathon
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May 18, 2014, 05:19:27 PM
Last edit: May 18, 2014, 05:33:28 PM by Beliathon
 #104

No reason to get spun up yet:

1) Perusing these forums, the majority of posters are hardcore technophiles who most likely are looking for ways where they can profitably fit in the new BTC economy while it's early days. Are these hardcore types really the market for "Circle", ahhhhhhh........ no.

2) The market for circle is Pops in Kansas who has a few extra bucks to invest or some young chump from Yutzville who has more money than sense. This crowd needs some sort of security blanket, or at the minimum, the patina of some sort of fiscal responsibility. This crowd won't enter the water until they can dip their toe. So if Circle can bring in people who otherwise would not get involved in BTC at this time, it's probably a good thing.
Well said. I don't feel threatened by Circle at all, it will fail on its own if they try to pull the same old fiat shenanigans that got us into this mess.

3) Finally bitcoiners will have to get use to the idea that some corporate giant "central authority" will attempt to gen up their own cyptocurrency and try to control it.
Please. No matter how much money the Corparasites throw at such an initiative, it will never approach Bitcoin in adoption or value.

Pre-mining scams, theft-via-inflation, and central-control hierarchies worked in the industrial fiat-money age, they are no longer valid in the information age.

Welcome to the future. Welcome to the information age. This is the place where mass-deception comes to die, motherfuckers. Your power is DONE.

Here's your daily dose of TRUTH, brought to you by Beliathon:








Remember Aaron Swartz, a 26 year old computer scientist who died defending the free flow of information.
greenlion
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May 18, 2014, 05:32:50 PM
 #105

There is a world of difference between a private company doing business in a free market surviving by providing beneficial services to its customers versus the state-sponsored pyramid schemes being depicted in those graphs.

This whole line of argumentation regresses into the absurd ad infinitum.

There will never ever ever ever ever be something that somebody somewhere couldn't oppose as being centralized.

If I decide to open a small business repairing tractors, suddenly I am a centralized point of failure pyramid scheme monopolist because something happens in a centralized place, i.e. my shop. I order parts, hire other mechanics, etc. all without everyone else in the world being involved. God forbid, I'm a criminal destined to collapse at any moment and steal everybody's broken tractor assets!
Beliathon
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May 18, 2014, 05:34:28 PM
 #106

There is a world of difference between a private company doing business in a free market surviving by providing beneficial services to its customers versus the state-sponsored pyramid schemes being depicted in those graphs.
All capitalist enterprises are pyramid schemes, and all corporations are state-sponsored. In my country (USA), the business elite and the political elite are the SAME PEOPLE.

Over the course of the last forty years, the "american dream" has hardened into a brutal caste system with a massive, for-profit prison population. Things will get worse before they get better.

We have set a course for corporate neo-fascism. This is why we say "profit is a FILTHY word". The fact is, capitalism is hitting the fan.

The concept of the "free market" is a myth, and I aim to expose it. It was never free - there is and was always the use of coercion, and violence if that failed.  Bitcoin is political whether you like it or not.

There are other ways, you know. Have a little imagination.

Remember Aaron Swartz, a 26 year old computer scientist who died defending the free flow of information.
greenlion
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May 18, 2014, 05:41:02 PM
 #107

There is a world of difference between a private company doing business in a free market surviving by providing beneficial services to its customers versus the state-sponsored pyramid schemes being depicted in those graphs.
All capitalist enterprises are pyramid schemes, and all corporations are state-sponsored. In my country (USA), the business elite and the political elite are the SAME PEOPLE.

Over the course of the last forty years, the "american dream" has hardened into a brutal caste system with a massive, for-profit prison population. Things will get worse before they get better.

The concept of the "free market" is a myth, and I aim to expose it. It was never free - there is and was always the use of coercion, and violence if that failed.  Bitcoin is political whether you like it or not.

There are other ways, you know. Have a little imagination.

This is sophomoric beyond my wildest dreams.

Here's the basic pattern to this behavior --

1) Somebody makes an observation or argument;
2) Quick! Immediately loosely link whatever was said to a canned bush league piece of polemic vomit that you were looking to say all along no matter what was said!
3) Make sure to say presumptuous things about the mental faculties of the person you're responding to.

Very classy son, keep it up!
Beliathon
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May 18, 2014, 05:43:31 PM
 #108

Very classy son, keep it up!
I will! You carry on being a capitalism apologist, until things get so bad you're too ashamed to speak in its defense.

I'll carry on changing the world by spreading truth, and there's nothing you can do to stop me.



Don't interfere with my forum business again, this is important work I'm doing here. Transcending capitalism and nation-state post-feudal warfare is the key to the survival of our species.

P.S.
I'm afraid even "sophomoric' is above my lowly station, I'm a deadbeat dropout debtor. Unemployed with no direction, no goals, no money, no future. I am the lowest of the low.

Remember Aaron Swartz, a 26 year old computer scientist who died defending the free flow of information.
jonald_fyookball
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May 18, 2014, 06:38:12 PM
 #109


All capitalist enterprises are pyramid schemes, and all corporations are state-sponsored. 

So, if I run a lemonade stand, it's a pyramid scheme?

Are the corporations I personally registered "state-sponsered" ?


CurbsideProphet
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May 18, 2014, 08:56:23 PM
 #110

So has this site even been launched yet?  It looks like they're still planning on sending out invites but nothing is up and running so far or maybe only to a limited amount of beta users?  I'll wait until it's actually up and running to judge.

1ProphetnvP8ju2SxxRvVvyzCtTXDgLPJV
franky1
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May 18, 2014, 09:17:38 PM
 #111

So has this site even been launched yet?  It looks like they're still planning on sending out invites but nothing is up and running so far or maybe only to a limited amount of beta users?  I'll wait until it's actually up and running to judge.

and you call yourself a prophet lol Cheesy

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
Slingshot
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May 18, 2014, 09:32:50 PM
Last edit: May 18, 2014, 09:45:06 PM by Slingshot
 #112

Step 1. END The FED (and all other Central Banks as we know them).

Step 2. All countries have their own Debt Free self issued Currencies. Possibly various forms of Cryptocurrencies.

Step 3. All countries control their own monetary and fiscal policies themselves.

Step 4. All countries are held in check by Decentralized Cryptocurrencies where people can flee to, or remain, in case countries don't act and behave in a prudent fashion concerning monetary and fiscal policies.

Step 5. A gradual phase in of Decentralization of Powers and Controls over a long period of time, or during revolutions.



 Above all else: END THE FED. And all other Central Banks, and Never again have DEBT BASED FIAT.

 Just those two first steps the world free. Everyone in the world must learn and know the scores of reasons why.
(Everyone is a debt slave from cradle to grave with Debt Based Fiat Currencies, ie: Dollars, Yen, Pounds, Euros, etc. No More, Never Again).


 The rest will all fall into place if even the first two steps above is done. Give people a real taste of Freedom and they will figure out the rest themselves.


 But first...END THE FED. And Claw Back all the Loot stolen by Banksters and Wall Street.


Never again any more Bailouts. Never any Bail-In's. Never Reward Failure. That is NOT Capitalism.
That's Bankster Fascism. Neo-Bankster/Corporate Fascism.

 Never again Socialize Losses and Privatize Profits in these wickedly evil schemes.

 NO ONE is Too Big Too Fail. We always put those firms into receivership, then clean up their messes, and liquidate their assets or sell off those firms after their balance sheets are cleaned up. But management is supposed to go to prison in cases of Fraud and other crimes. Until 2008 that is. When Bankster Fascism arrived in it's Full Blown Form.


 Real Capitalism NEVER, EVER Rewards Failure. That's Un-American. That's Un-European. That's Insane to reward failure.


 Bitcoin/Decentralized Cryptocurrencies aids to neuter our Masters powers and controls. Everyone that learns the truth agrees except of course the Owners of The Central Banks. Sadistically even that has morphed into many a very large Mutual Fund, ETF, Bank Stocks directly, and of course even Pension Funds and Insurance companies, all very much unwitting co-conspirators. It's not merely Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan Chase along with the other Largest Banks, not by a long shot. This is a sorted and extremely messy affair 100 years later (today).
All of these own a chunk of the Fed. It will take lots of efforts to unwind this unless it completely implodes on it's under it's own insanity, which it quite possibly could if they ever lose complete control or do what they did before because of the insanity of allowing Commercial Banks to be turned into Investment/Gambling Fools. Commercial Bankers are always the worst investors. Until of course they fix the markets in their favor: ie: 2009 to the Present.

 This is real, it's going down in real time, and their all worse than insolvent all over again. Even 40+ Trillion in Bailouts, Backstops and Guarantees didn't do anything but make the macro situations many times worse than in 2008.
Sure the Fed tapered a tad bit, Only because the USA Inc didn't need a full Trillion annually loaned to in the last several months. The FED and all the other Central Banks are and have been blowing the Bubble of Last Resort: ie QE to Infinity. Taper my ass...Governments always inflate their way into ruin, and their co-partners of Crime the Central Bank always goes along for the ride. Of course that's why the FED has been busy printing up digital monies for free and purchasing up all the Bonds tied to Real Assets (Mortgages), their robbing us and our government blind!


 At least almost everyone here knows this, maybe not all these details and much more, but almost all of us are on the same page and understand. Sadly it's much worse than many even here know...

 Now let the newbies (noobs) learn more than a bit too, and why we're here! A few cry to stop this, claiming this or that, 'we shouldn't state such things'. 'Be nice to newbies'. Well, yes, be extra nice and helpful to newbies (noobs). But educate. Or we all do this the Hard Way.

 Even our own Governments and their employees hate our real Masters - The Banksters. They already own about 40% of the Global Assets. It's way past time to claw back those ill gotten gains. Even many Bank and Wall Street employees hate our real Masters. The 0.01%. Enough. Let's Claw it All Back, and toss these many of the worst parasites where they belong. (Next to Maddoff). Yes, maybe many others should be given lenency, all things what they were the last 100 years. But I am being far too kind saying it. It's not how I personally feel. But in reality it's not many of them that are to directly fault. We were all born into this economic slavery.

 But when they turn Their Losers into Winners by Retroactively Changing the Laws after the fact, and By Secret, hush hush 15.3 Trillion (so far known) FED Bailouts while claiming all they needed was a 800 Billion TARP Bill Bailout it all reeks of Bankster Fascism and much more.

 Capitalism, REAL Capitalism NEVER Rewards Failure.

 Today every government employee, every cop, retired or not, and every other public employee, right along side every private sector retiree and worker is at FULL RISK.

 This outline here Saves us all. It's either ALL OF US, or 0.01% of them.


 MAN UP. Circle this FUD Thread more. I dare you. I welcome Circle. ex Goldman or Not. Let's Get Real. Let's do this together. Let's save our futures and our children's and grand children's futures. And their children's futures.

 Even Congress has got to be all for this. Same with past and present White Houses. Everyone hates being economic slaves by way of Debt Based Fiat Schemes laid down some 100 years ago. The FED is almost out of rope. Soon it ends. Let's rebuild it the Best Way We Know How.

 END THE FED. (my goal)... END THE FED. And End Debt Based Dollars, Forever. That's all I require. All any of us need to be Set FREE.

http://dollarcollapse.com/




 Bitcoin is Real Freedom
moriartybitcoin (OP)
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May 19, 2014, 03:54:22 AM
 #113

Slingshot, you're mostly 99% correct.  I just don't quite understand why you say you 'welcome Circle'.  That's not helping to end the Fed at all. Circle operates within the traditional banking system and its goal is to bring Bitcoin more fully into compliance with government regulation .. so this hardly helps us end the Fed.

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May 19, 2014, 05:02:19 AM
 #114

Circle has to be the worst idea in Bitcoin history; a Bitcoin central bank to centralize a decentralized cryptocurrency!  Next thing we know, there will be a Bitcoin Federal Reserve, Bitcoin Fractional Reserve Banking and, of course, Bitcoin INFLATION!

Anyone who supports the idea of DECENTRALIZED CRYPTOCURRENCY needs to IMMEDIATELY speak out against circle and its corrupt CEO Jeremy Allaire.  This is a massive ponzi scheme just waiting to happen.  They are so desperate to attract Bitcoiners that they are giving away a free $10 in Bitcoin just to get you ID-verified on their system.

This is a travesty and I am just dumbfounded that such a company could even get off the ground.  Bitcoiners need to speak out on the forums, blogs, magazines, commenting on articles - SPREAD THE WORD.

This company 'Circle' is gearing up for the biggest ponzi scheme that Bitcoin has ever known.  And if these types of centralized Bitcoin banks are allowed to succeed, it could very well spell the end of Bitcoin and a mass exodus towards other, less commercially-corrupted cryptocurrencies. 

Michael Moriarty

It is an interesting take to challenge Bitcoin, but it won't go anywhere. It's terrible that they would try to centralize it because that runs counter to the nature of what Bitcoin truly is. Tame a lion in a cage and make it do tricks, it won't be long before the lion snaps and attacks the lion trainer.
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May 19, 2014, 05:39:24 AM
 #115

I think some of yall have gone straight off the deep end. Circle isn't centralizing bitcoin because you can't centralize it. All they're doing is providing a service, same as the exchanges you already do business with that holds your bitcoins that you gave your info to to even GET bitcoin...and they are offering banking like services at nominal to free cost.They are not trying to centralize bitcoin. They are a BRIDGE from fiat TO btc and what you do with it from there is your business. They don't even have any fucking power to "centralize" bitcoin.

They are making it EASY for people with the intellectual fortitude of the Sarah Palins and Paris Hiltons or Joe Blow to start obtaining and using bitcoin for every day purchases...doing their part to help push mainstream adoption WHICH IS WHAT WE ALL WANT, remember?

Because they deal in USD or other currencies they are still going to be regulated AS A BUSINESS by the government. If THEY didn't want to be regulated, THEY wouldn't start up a business such as this. They're working with government to make sure Mt Gox doesn't happen again, to offset and negate some of the bad press and make Suzie Homemaker and Joe Sixpack hop on board and go bitcoin the way they got email and cell phones.

Relax.

And if you are that friggin paranoid, DON'T USE THEM. Wow...you guys.  Roll Eyes Shocked

You say "anti government" like that's a bad thing...

Unfortunate times will bring out the best in good people and the worst in bad people
Westin Landon Cox
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Get your filthy fiat off me you damn dirty state.


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May 19, 2014, 07:10:53 AM
 #116

They are making it EASY for people with the intellectual fortitude of the Sarah Palins and Paris Hiltons or Joe Blow to start obtaining and using bitcoin for every day purchases...doing their part to help push mainstream adoption WHICH IS WHAT WE ALL WANT, remember?

I'll be more impressed when someone can make it easy for people with serious brain damage to use. For example, brain damaged stroke victims like Harry Reid. Or those who have brain damage as the result of an aneurysm, like Joe Biden.

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May 22, 2014, 07:01:06 PM
 #117

Decent Discussion regarding the Circle model:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkeFfNLHuBI
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May 22, 2014, 07:31:00 PM
 #118

I watched this one last night

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMuAZkoVMog

and the option that Circle has to give you instant access to your funds (and use a debit card) without any 3 or 4 day delay, or a week if you hit the weekend is a HUGE advantage over Coinbase and I predict that because of it, Coinbase is apt to lose a lot of business unless the "evolve" to instant access and accept debit cards.

I'm giving Circle full benefit of the doubt at this point in time because they offer ideal solutions at ideal cost (free) and until they do something that is actually negative and harmful they don't deserve to be demonized before they've even launched.

Again, you've already handed over your KYC info to coinbase AND bitstamp AND any other exchange you use. It appears to me that Circle looks to have more superior security protocols in place than any of these so far.


You say "anti government" like that's a bad thing...

Unfortunate times will bring out the best in good people and the worst in bad people
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May 22, 2014, 07:34:12 PM
 #119

everyone should really help spread the word about this
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May 22, 2014, 07:48:06 PM
 #120

So it looks like Moriarty and a bunch of newbies are the only ones worried about this exchange opening.

I would not be surprised if Moriarty is behind a competing website.

First seastead company actually selling sea homes: Ocean Builders https://ocean.builders  Of course we accept bitcoin.
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