Calling all Bitcoiners: SPEAK OUT against CIRCLE!

[Alley]

This is what it actually says on there site.

Full Reserve Bitcoin. As a regulated Money Transmitter in the United States, we are required by law to maintain full reserves – e.g. we must maintain 100% of customer deposit value and are not permitted to invest those assets for our own profit. Moreover, we are required by law to provide audited financials that prove our full reserves and associated accounting to government agencies.

[justusranvier]

That's so insanely cynical for a business that should not be used to store massive amount of Bitcoins anyway. Seriously, when you buy an Amazon giftcard do you think "They'll discontinue gift cards and move to a country where I can't sue them?" You are bad mouthing a company that, as of yet, has done nothing wrong.

You call it cynicism, I call it "learning from history".

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83794.0

[Carlton Banks]

Anyone half way smart is going to say "what's the point of this? I don't get any bitcoin at all". You get to spend fiat money through bitcoin retailers, but with the bitcoin exchange rate affecting your fiat balance. Even someone dumb enough to sign up will end up thinking "huh?"

And any insurance payout? Expect fiat, deposited to your bank account. Nervous bitcoin adopters should be using Coinbase.com or Safello, this business model is just going to confuse or alienate new users.

[mooncake]

If you can now buy and sell btc for FREE with your credit card, who will still use fee-based exchanges? From the video demo, I don't see a spread. If there is, please point us to the source.

If you are concerned with Circle holding to your private key, just withdraw your btc as soon as it appears in your account. Simple!

[acoindr]

Anyone half way smart is going to say "what's the point of this? I don't get any bitcoin at all". You get to spend fiat money through bitcoin retailers, but with the bitcoin exchange rate affecting your fiat balance. Even someone dumb enough to sign up will end up thinking "huh?"

I think they're prominently displaying account balances in USD because that's what people are familiar with, and use to make decisions. It's sort of the same way Blockchain.info has USD value in the upper right corner. I noticed Jeremy kept saying 'digital money' which might be a good way for people to think of it too. As for the exchange rate affecting the fiat balance that could be a good thing too if, as many of us expect, the exchange rate keeps going up. It wasn't mentioned explicitly in the video, but I'm guessing Circle will also let people choose whether to hold their actual account assets in crypto or fiat, meaning the balance of the other would rise or fall accordingly.

[mooncake]

It wasn't mentioned explicitly in the video, but I'm guessing Circle will also let people chose whether to hold their actual account assets in crypto or fiat, meaning the balance of the other would rise or fall accordingly.

I don't think so, unless add funds cater to add btc funds as well.

[acoindr]

It wasn't mentioned explicitly in the video, but I'm guessing Circle will also let people chose whether to hold their actual account assets in crypto or fiat, meaning the balance of the other would rise or fall accordingly.

I don't think so, unless add funds cater to add btc funds as well.

In the video Jeremy says something like it's a way to "hold and use digital money securely". To me that means by default accounts actually hold cryptocurrency assets, though the USD value may be displayed. He certainly did a demo of sending BTC to Overstock to make a purchase. If the account only had fiat then to make that purchase the fiat would have needed to be converted to BTC on the fly.

[shawshankinmate37927]

Circle has to be the worst idea in Bitcoin history; a Bitcoin central bank to centralize a decentralized cryptocurrency!  Next thing we know, there will be a Bitcoin Federal Reserve, Bitcoin Fractional Reserve Banking and, of course, Bitcoin INFLATION!

Anyone who supports the idea of DECENTRALIZED CRYPTOCURRENCY needs to IMMEDIATELY speak out against circle and its corrupt CEO Jeremy Allaire.  This is a massive ponzi scheme just waiting to happen.  They are so desperate to attract Bitcoiners that they are giving away a free $10 in Bitcoin just to get you ID-verified on their system.

This is a travesty and I am just dumbfounded that such a company could even get off the ground.  Bitcoiners need to speak out on the forums, blogs, magazines, commenting on articles - SPREAD THE WORD.

This company 'Circle' is gearing up for the biggest ponzi scheme that Bitcoin has ever known.  And if these types of centralized Bitcoin banks are allowed to succeed, it could very well spell the end of Bitcoin and a mass exodus towards other, less commercially-corrupted cryptocurrencies. 

Michael Moriarty

Sounds like a bunch of baseless FUD, but thanks for bringing them to my attention.  I'll be looking into what they have to offer.  I would never transfer all of my BTC to a single party, but if they incorporate multisig addresses and learn from the mistakes of other organizations, then they may very well be providing a valuable service.

[BittBurger]

Hey the owner of CNet announced that Bitcoin could never be a currency because its too volatile, so instead, he's pegging it directly to FIAT and creating a service around that horrible idea.

Expect the many dummies who care nothing for the ideology behind Bitcoin to continue to come up with solutions that contradict the entire purpose of Bitcoin

-B-

[franky1]

This is what it actually says on there site.

Full Reserve Bitcoin. As a regulated Money Transmitter in the United States, we are required by law to maintain full reserves – e.g. we must maintain 100% of customer deposit value and are not permitted to invest those assets for our own profit. Moreover, we are required by law to provide audited financials that prove our full reserves and associated accounting to government agencies.

remember guys american financial LAW concerns american finances. bitcoin is not in american juristion and control/law. so i highlighted
key word in red. the financial regulations are about FIAT.. so they cant use fiat for other investments by law... they are required to maintain full FIAT reserves by law..

the law concerns fiat.. a Full Reserve Bitcoin is just policy not law. i truly hope they stick to 100% bitcoin reserves though. and reveal how exactly the do actually make profits, as it would be interesting to know..

[Peter R]

Anyone half way smart is going to say "what's the point of this? I don't get any bitcoin at all". You get to spend fiat money through bitcoin retailers, but with the bitcoin exchange rate affecting your fiat balance. Even someone dumb enough to sign up will end up thinking "huh?"

I see your point, but I was thinking that spending bitcoins at retailers is secondary to using bitcoins as a store of value.

What seems huge to me is the ability for new adopters to instantly purchase with their credit cards.  It looks like they are running real-time credit checks, and allowing purchases based on credit ratings (although I still don't understand how they are getting around the identity theft problem).  

If people can sign up for an account quickly, get $10 of BTC for free, and then purchase bitcoins with credit card, I think this could have a significant effect on bitcoin demand should a new rally emerge.  Think about it:

Friend: "Hey, how are those bitcoins things doing lately?  Are they still around?"

Bitcoiner: "Yes, in fact the currency just eclipsed its previous all-time high of $1262 from November."

Friend: "Oh really?  So it's still growing, hey?  Do you think it will shoot up like it did last time?"

Bitcoiner: "It could happen."

Friend: "How do I buy them?  Maybe just $100 in case it goes up.  And I don't want my bitcoins to get hacked and my computer is full of viruses."

Bitcoiner: "The easiest way to get started is with Circle.  You can buy them now with your credit card and Circle will hold them for you.  When you learn more about proper bitcoin security, you can manage them yourself if you choose so that you retain full control of your funds."


This seems like a good thing for bitcoin.  

[Peter R]

I should add that in my discussions with friends and people I meet, there is definitely untapped demand to hold bitcoin.  Here's an example of how Circle would be useful to me:

One of my friends really wants to invest $5,000 in bitcoin.  He wants me to help him.  But here's the problem: (a) if I show him how to buy and store bitcoins, I am very confident he will lose them, (b) if I store the bitcoins for him, then I am taking on a liability that makes me uncomfortable.  So I do nothing and he never buys.  

But with something like Circle, because they enforce 2FA via a phone, the site security should be high by default.  Because they require identification, if he forgets everything there's probably still some way Circle can recover his account.  Most importantly, I can feel comfortable helping him get setup without taking on liability myself or putting me in an ethical dilemma.  

[CoinRocka]

Anyone half way smart is going to say "what's the point of this? I don't get any bitcoin at all". You get to spend fiat money through bitcoin retailers, but with the bitcoin exchange rate affecting your fiat balance. Even someone dumb enough to sign up will end up thinking "huh?"

And any insurance payout? Expect fiat, deposited to your bank account. Nervous bitcoin adopters should be using Coinbase.com or Safello, this business model is just going to confuse or alienate new users.

Its all about the free bitcoin....it's only about the free bitcoin.

[LiteCoinGuy]

i love circle, thats what we need for mass adoption 

[jabo38]

I like the idea.  If it works and it becomes big, it'll be nice.  I am a fan of making multisig really easy so that a bulk of my bitcoin will be secured, easily and safely.  But then smaller amounts can be in places like coinbase, circle, or bitpay for transactions.  I really think this is a big development for bitcoin.  Some legitimate and big businesses getting involved, rather than meeting a dude at a coffee shop and trying to buy bitcoin on your laptop.  That just isn't realistic if bitcoin wants to become serious.  Right now, bitcoin is a great idea, but the practicality of using it isn't that great.  It is slow (my credit card transaction clears in 5 seconds), it is difficult to use (downloading wallets, making cold storage, encryption....), it has confusing technology and terms.  Major players like circle can simplify it.  They aren't making it centralized, no more than the huge mining pools or the exchanges are centralized already. 

[CurbsideProphet]

After watching the video, a couple of comments.  One, I'm glad they force people to use 2FA.  That alone should greatly decrease the chance of an outside hack on users.  Second, is this really a storage service?  It seems like your fiat is only converted to Bitcoin when you spend it.  Essentially you take away the volatility risk because if you deposit $100, it remains $100 until you spend it rather than instantly converting to Bitcoin at the current exchange.  What I can't figure out is how these guys make money.  There has to be a fee or a spread somewhere.

[elux]

Circle has to be the worst idea in Bitcoin history; a Bitcoin central bank to centralize a decentralized cryptocurrency!  
Next thing we know, there will be a Bitcoin Federal Reserve, Bitcoin Fractional Reserve Banking and, of course, Bitcoin INFLATION!

Michael Moriarty

Circle sounds pretty good to me. Yay Circle! (I think Mr Moriarty here could have a spotty connection to either of truth or reality.)

[keithers]

I'm wondering on what basis you are calling him corrupt?   They have done a pretty good job so far at keeping what they have in development a secret, but from what I have read up to this point, they seem to have some good ideas in the works.

I read in some article, that they were trying to implement some sort of insurance into the infrastructure, which could be massively good for mainstream adoption.   Psychologically this could help people that are not super technically savvy (that are on the fence about Bitcoin), have more peace of mind in using cryptos.

[Elwar]

I am thinking OP is actually promoting the Circle online wallet, throwing in that "you get money if you sign up" line...

well played Circle

[LiteCoinGuy]

After watching the video, a couple of comments.  One, I'm glad they force people to use 2FA.  That alone should greatly decrease the chance of an outside hack on users.  Second, is this really a storage service?  It seems like your fiat is only converted to Bitcoin when you spend it.  Essentially you take away the volatility risk because if you deposit $100, it remains $100 until you spend it rather than instantly converting to Bitcoin at the current exchange.  What I can't figure out is how these guys make money.  There has to be a fee or a spread somewhere.

i would love the idea of such a storage service but as you can see in the video, the dollar value changed!