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Author Topic: Calling all Bitcoiners: SPEAK OUT against CIRCLE!  (Read 6751 times)
moriartybitcoin (OP)
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May 17, 2014, 06:51:39 PM
 #61

I talk more about the 'Circle Scam' in my interview on CryptoCoinsNews:

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/exclusive-interview-bitcoin-networks-dr-michael-moriarty-stanford-phd-becomes-bitcoins-doc-ock/2014/05/17

moriartybitcoin (OP)
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May 17, 2014, 06:56:09 PM
 #62

Circle says they don't care about profitability. No deposit or withdrawal fees, no storage fees, no transaction fees AND insurance.

Nice business model - everything is free.  Where does the money come from?  Big VC firms like Andreesen Horowitz. 

All well and good, but what happens when their $26 million in VC funding runs out?  What happens if they can't score another round of funding?  What happens when they start dipping into your cold storage wallet just to keep the operations afloat?

Sure, Circle sounds like a panacea for Bitcoin newbies. Free, easy to use, safe.  It might be easy to use, but you have to sacrifice your financial privacy.  And it won't be free forever or the company will go out of business. And SAFE?  You've got to be kidding me.

Look, just because a company is funded with millions of dollars, incorporated and regulated doesn't mean ANYTHING.

MtGox, BitInstant, BitFloor ... seriously, the list is endless.  The only truly SAFE Bitcoin is that which is held offline in your own personal wallet, certainly NOT on a big exchange like CoinBase or Circle.

Bitcoiners really need to smarten up and stop trusting these mega-companies with their money.

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May 17, 2014, 06:56:21 PM
 #63

This is horrifying, the whole point of bitcoin was DECENTRALISED BANKING.
Yet this website tries to undermine bitcoin by making you tie all your info togeather

Uhhh, Information harvesting much?
No, you DONT get to know what i'm buying with MY money
"Actually here at circle, you own credentials that say you have access to the money, but you don't own it, so when you spend your portion of our money, we feel we have the right to see what it was for"
"From there we can dispense customised advertisements and try to sell you products, we Could also prevent purchases this exact same way"

http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=DingoRabiit&sign=ANY&type=RECV <-My Ratings
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=857670.0 GAWminers and associated things are not to be trusted, Especially the "mineral" exchange
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May 17, 2014, 07:34:18 PM
 #64

Friend: "How do I buy them?  Maybe just $100 in case it goes up.  And I don't want my bitcoins to get hacked and my computer is full of viruses."

Bitcoiner: "The easiest way to get started is with Circle.  You can buy them now with your credit card and Circle will hold them for you.  When you learn more about proper bitcoin security, you can manage them yourself if you choose so that you retain full control of your funds."

That would all be great, but that's not possible using Circle's system. There seems to be no direct access to the bitcoin, or at least not the way their accounts are depicted. Withdrawals are fiat only. It's like a consumer level bitcoin ETF.

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May 17, 2014, 07:52:23 PM
 #65

Friend: "How do I buy them?  Maybe just $100 in case it goes up.  And I don't want my bitcoins to get hacked and my computer is full of viruses."

Bitcoiner: "The easiest way to get started is with Circle.  You can buy them now with your credit card and Circle will hold them for you.  When you learn more about proper bitcoin security, you can manage them yourself if you choose so that you retain full control of your funds."

That would all be great, but that's not possible using Circle's system. There seems to be no direct access to the bitcoin, or at least not the way their accounts are depicted. Withdrawals are fiat only. It's like a consumer level bitcoin ETF.

Then why TF r they talkin bout multisig?

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May 17, 2014, 08:01:01 PM
 #66

I don't get it why so many angry replies. It's voluntary to use the service. If you find it useful, use it. If you don't, don't!

Sure, i won't run to them with my cold storage, but if service is cheap (or free), works great, has ton of useful features... great, I'll gladly hand them some of my pocket money.

For many others (newbies or technically illiterate persons) this may be the safest option, though.
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May 17, 2014, 08:01:11 PM
 #67

Then why TF r they talkin bout multisig?

Beats me. Multi-sig where the customer hold 0 of N keys, that's really got me sold.

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May 17, 2014, 08:03:01 PM
 #68

"Bitcoin central bank to centralize a decentralized cryptocurrency" - it does not obey my logic
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May 17, 2014, 08:14:38 PM
 #69

I don't get it why so many angry replies. It's voluntary to use the service. If you find it useful, use it. If you don't, don't!

Sure, i won't run to them with my cold storage, but if service is cheap (or free), works great, has ton of useful features... great, I'll gladly hand them some of my pocket money.

For many others (newbies or technically illiterate persons) this may be the safest option, though.


Who's angry?  I think we're mostly just confused.

Someone should get on the phone with these guys and ask the key questions.

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May 17, 2014, 10:51:29 PM
 #70

To the OP, I dont see what all the drama and accusations are over.

Jeremy Allaire was the CTO at Macromedia and involved with major software technologies like Adobe Flash and Cold Fusion, as well as other ventures.  His company is well funded with VC money and visible like bitpay and coinbase.  He was a keynote speaker at this year's NYC bitcoin conference and has a lot of vision of taking bitcoin more mainstream that only helps all of us.

I see Circle as Coinbase with improvements like: credit card deposit and withdrawls, potentially no fees, insurance, enforced 2FA, multisig, instant btc purchases vs waiting 4 days.  The AML/KYC questions are a necessary evil to doing business in the U.S. to comply with FinCen MSB requirements.

Like Coinbase, Circle is trying to make bitcoin more mainstream and easy to use for your average user.  This only helps the overall bitcoin network.

I think you are out of line, making baseless accusations with no facts to support them.

Co-author to the Encyclopedia of Physical Bitcoins.  More details can be found at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2767515.0
moriartybitcoin (OP)
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May 17, 2014, 11:25:45 PM
 #71

To the OP, I dont see what all the drama and accusations are over.

Jeremy Allaire was the CTO at Macromedia and involved with major software technologies like Adobe Flash and Cold Fusion, as well as other ventures.  His company is well funded with VC money and visible like bitpay and coinbase.  He was a keynote speaker at this year's NYC bitcoin conference and has a lot of vision of taking bitcoin more mainstream that only helps all of us.

I see Circle as Coinbase with improvements like: credit card deposit and withdrawls, potentially no fees, insurance, enforced 2FA, multisig, instant btc purchases vs waiting 4 days.  The AML/KYC questions are a necessary evil to doing business in the U.S. to comply with FinCen MSB requirements.

Like Coinbase, Circle is trying to make bitcoin more mainstream and easy to use for your average user.  This only helps the overall bitcoin network.

I think you are out of line, making baseless accusations with no facts to support them.


The fact that Mr. Allaire was involved with Adobe Flash should hardly be re-assuring.  Adobe Flash is one of the most vulnerable, flawed and security-hole-ridden software products on the market!

Not only that, Bitcoin is OPEN SOURCE CRYPTOCURRENCY.  How can Mr. Allaire's experience with a greedy, closed-source company like Macromedia possibly work to his advantage in the Bitcoin world? 

Actually, the fact that this guy has been involved with Adobe/Macromedia should be a HUGE RED FLAG against him instead of a selling point!

The only reason he is the CEO of Circle is because of his connections to venture capitalists.  This guy has NO BUSINESS entering the Bitcoin world whatsoever!

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May 17, 2014, 11:29:12 PM
 #72

Circle is the exact OPPOSITE of what Bitcoin needs. Instead, people should be endorsing something like BitGo which offers multisig wallets, ensuring that not even the website owner can withdraw a user's cold storage funds.  Multi-sig is definitely the future of online wallets. 

Which do you think is more trustworthy? A multi-sig wallet or a Bitcoin central bank like Circle which won't even provide the private keys to YOUR Bitcoin holdings?

If you don't know the answer, then you need to learn more about Bitcoin ...

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May 17, 2014, 11:30:15 PM
 #73

Actually no one can prevent FRB from happening, as long as there is a demand for users to store their coins on platform. But the risk of a bank-run only impact its users, e.g. if the bank/platform goes down, users lose all or majority of their coins on that platform, just like MTGOX

So people will still store majority of their coins offline in a brain wallet / paper wallet / secure USB key

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May 17, 2014, 11:39:44 PM
 #74

Friend: "How do I buy them?  Maybe just $100 in case it goes up.  And I don't want my bitcoins to get hacked and my computer is full of viruses."

Bitcoiner: "The easiest way to get started is with Circle.  You can buy them now with your credit card and Circle will hold them for you.  When you learn more about proper bitcoin security, you can manage them yourself if you choose so that you retain full control of your funds."

That would all be great, but that's not possible using Circle's system. There seems to be no direct access to the bitcoin, or at least not the way their accounts are depicted. Withdrawals are fiat only. It's like a consumer level bitcoin ETF.

Are you sure about this?  Jeremy demonstrated an Overstock purchase and I'm assuming this was a bitcoin payment to a Coinbase-controlled address.  Do you think they lock out spending except to safe payment processors?  But even if that's the case, what's stopping the user from invoicing himself via Coinbase? 

I just can't imagine that there'd be no way to withdraw bitcoins.  I think this needs to be verified. 

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May 17, 2014, 11:41:57 PM
 #75

I like the idea.  If it works and it becomes big, it'll be nice.  I am a fan of making multisig really easy so that a bulk of my bitcoin will be secured, easily and safely.  But then smaller amounts can be in places like coinbase, circle, or bitpay for transactions.  I really think this is a big development for bitcoin.  Some legitimate and big businesses getting involved, rather than meeting a dude at a coffee shop and trying to buy bitcoin on your laptop.  That just isn't realistic if bitcoin wants to become serious.  Right now, bitcoin is a great idea, but the practicality of using it isn't that great.  It is slow (my credit card transaction clears in 5 seconds), it is difficult to use (downloading wallets, making cold storage, encryption....), it has confusing technology and terms.  Major players like circle can simplify it.  They aren't making it centralized, no more than the huge mining pools or the exchanges are centralized already. 

I have been following this thread silently but since I saw what jabo38 wrote above it somehow became clear to me.....

This is the only way for Bitcoin to become mainstream and widely accepted.

The only problem I see here is trust......
You see, the way I see it is that, I would rather trust the blockchain rather than a bank.
That said, I live in Cyprus so I am a bit cautious when it comes to banking and stuff.

However, the need for a "bank" type of Bitcoin service is required if Bitcoin is to EVER be FIRST: Understood by the mass, and THEN accepted by the mass.

Now the traditional way might be a bit complicated for the average Joe, but a service that acts like a bank - not necessarily being Circle - could simplify things.

GREAT!!!!!

But do you trust a bank?

Well, no....
BUT......
It's unavoidable!

Let's take Bitcoin away for a second and think.....
how long has the banking "corporations" been around?
Long time huh?

Why you think that is?

IN SHORT....
Because people like to feel "secure".
So they intrust their "money" to a "secure" corporation to look after it for them for a "small" fee.
They even promise to give them interest for intrusting their money to them - but don't tell them that they give out most of their money out as loans and make 10X as much from it.

Now, I will not go down that road of how the banks f*ck you but to get to the point....
A LOT of people know this by now but they don't, or feel powerless to do anything about it so they go a long.

You know why?
Because dealing with a bank OR declaring tax to the gov is unavoidable, UNLESS you run a business on SilkRoad.
(and still how you gonna launder that out?)

So, the question is:

How do we go about it?

Do we fight every single company that "tries" to centralize (if that is even possible) Bitcoin?

OR

Do we embrace innovation?


That being said....
And Circle aside,

I DO believe we need a banking type of service for Bitcoin for it to be widely accepted.
That also being said,
I also think that for ANY banking type corporation to succeed in this they must follow (Bitcoin) protocol.....
And that is decentralization.......

Possible?HuhHuhHuh?






 








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May 17, 2014, 11:42:32 PM
 #76

Quote
That explains a lot of things: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZloserjZNfM

watch?v=ZloserjZNfM

Is youtube is giving out vanity URLs now?
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May 18, 2014, 12:10:36 AM
 #77

Circle is the exact OPPOSITE of what Bitcoin needs. Instead, people should be endorsing something like BitGo which offers multisig wallets, ensuring that not even the website owner can withdraw a user's cold storage funds.  Multi-sig is definitely the future of online wallets. 

Which do you think is more trustworthy? A multi-sig wallet or a Bitcoin central bank like Circle which won't even provide the private keys to YOUR Bitcoin holdings?

If you don't know the answer, then you need to learn more about Bitcoin ...

I enjoy watching you squirm. This is exactly what bitcoin needs. No one is forcing you to use.
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May 18, 2014, 12:24:56 AM
 #78

You guys just dont get it.  The masses dont even know what private keys are and dont want to know.  They want to use bitcoins just like there online fiat bank account.  They WANT to trust a third party cause they dont want to have to deal with keeping there own coins secure.  Speaking out against these new services is saying you want bitcoin to stay in the secluded techy world.  Just my 2 cents.
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May 18, 2014, 12:31:03 AM
 #79

You guys just dont get it.  The masses dont even know what private keys are and dont want to know.  They want to use bitcoins just like there online fiat bank account.  They WANT to trust a third party cause they dont want to have to deal with keeping there own coins secure.  Speaking out against these new services is saying you want bitcoin to stay in the secluded techy world.  Just my 2 cents.

I agree with you.  As long as they offer the option to withdrawal coins and do multisig, it's good.

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May 18, 2014, 12:39:35 AM
 #80

Looking forward to when they inevitably implement fees and everyone gets pissed off  Tongue
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