[ANN] WampumCoin [WAM]/Wampumcoin.com Announcement update

[worth]

He's basically what I like to call a "GPU holder" who is clinging to the use of mining PCs and chasing the current fad of "ASIC resistant" algos, but that's short-term thinking because ASICs are the long-term future for crypto.  You just have to expect comments like this from people.

No.  He is referring to the fact that there isn't a lot of interest in scrypt for new coins in the mining community.  

Right, and the reason there isn't much interest is because they want to keep mining with C/GPUs instead of ASICs...

One of the design elements of Wampum was that it was to be easy to mine, at least at the start.  Scrypt was a decent choice as it can work reasonably well on CPUs as long as the difficulty is low.  It was hoped that we would have many casual users on low-power hardware acting as miners.

Unfortunately, Wampum has yet to appeal to the casual user (there's nothing you can really do with it), and the hard-core miners just aren't interested in the low-power approach.  In fact, the goofball mining rates we're seeing on the mining pool are just killing Wampum, making it too difficult for the casual users to break in.  Why a few people are burning excessive rubber trying to get "MOAR COYNZ!" is beyond me.  They're far from the economical mining sweet spot.  Maybe they're trying to manipulate the block-chain.  Maybe they're trying to "corner" the Wampum market  .  Maybe they're just bad at math.  Regardless, they're killing Wampum.  I just mine it because it is (or was) a fun learning experiment.  

We need to get more low-power casual miners in the picture  *OR* switch to an algorithm that the mining community is interested in to revive interest.  The only other alternative is some miracle marketing plan.  (I'm not holding my breath)

Unfortunately this "secret skimming" of 5% of the mining pool is really sucking the Wampum interest right out of me.

While I've been taking a break from mining it regularly, the difficulty is still quite low.  I'll have to take a look at this skimming you're talking about since I hadn't seen it happening or mentioned before today. 

As far as the one miner throwing ~13 MH/s at it, maybe that's just the speed of the ASIC they're using?  While I was never throwing that much at it, I was mining at a pretty high rate for a while there specifically to accumulate enough to implement the plan I have in mind. No way of asking them, so any guesses are pure speculation.

I don't think flailing around changing algos to follow the latest fad is a good idea. Algos designed specifically to "resist" ASICs are either (potentially) not going to implement on an ASIC at all, or they're going to do so in an inefficient manner.  I don't think it's in the long-term interests of the network to try to prevent the use of efficient ASICs.

[worth]

OK, I've got more to post but only have a few minutes right now.  One thing I wanted to talk about was the coin image.  I'm not a big fan.

I think the image is a little generic and semi-stereotypical (although not offensive or anything, just to be clear).  What I'd really like to see is something that reflects and honors the history of the name Wampum, yet which also ties into the fact that it's modern and digital. 

What I was thinking was something based on a traditional Wampum belt; my thought being the Hiawatha Belt pictured below:



One of the things that I mentioned in the video I've linked to before is that Wampum traditionally used two basic colors of shell to create patterns and meaning in the Wampum belts.  This "binary" reminds me of digital 1s and 0s, and visually the style of art reminds me of very early computer graphics that were often very geometric patterns and were composed of a restricted color palette. 

I'd like to see something that sticks very close to the Hiawatha Belt's image, but has a slightly "digital" look to it -- perhaps block pixels instead of the individual pieces of Wampum shell that make up the traditional belts. 

I've already spoken to someone in the Northeast who knows a Native American artist about seeing if they might be interested in doing something, and I have another possible contact in mind as well, but I'd be happy to see any work and pay a commission in WAM for something nice.

My preference would be a Native American artist, but the important thing is that it respects the history of it and is made with an understanding of the meaning behind the symbols.  The image below shows the meaning of each of the symbols on the Hiawatha Belt, for your reference:

[Goattrading]

I think that is an excellent idea.

[IMJim]

I have to agree with worth regarding ASICs and the algo, scrypt is not hot right now, so will be the case with today's popular algos in a few short months.  ASICs are an inevitable part of evolution in this extremely fast paced industry.  Why shouldn't they be, they are WAY more energy efficient.......really crypto has created a MASSIVE amount of what some would call a complete waste of our planets resources.  GPU and CPU mining needs to and will die because of this in my opinion.....mining crypto currencies HAS to get more energy efficient and ASICs are part of that equation unfortunately.

I hate it to looking at in that sense, it is so damn hard to keep up with this technology that it frustrates the hell out of people because their hardware becomes outdated so fast.  Regardless of that fact, they are here and more will continue to follow for newer algos too and you know how the saying goes.......if you can't beat em.  I think you MUST have that mentality to be a miner, if your business plan does not involve constantly updating your equipment to keep up with the technology.....then I think it best to rent rigs based on speculation determined by good research.

Honestly I am only 4 months or so into this so have MUCH to learn myself, but this is the feeling I get in regards to this:-)

[nincehelser]

Right, and the reason there isn't much interest is because they want to keep mining with C/GPUs instead of ASICs...

No.  It's not really personal preference.  It's the logical outcome of the life-cycle.  In order for a cryptocurrency to be viable, there has to be a sufficient level of difficulty in the generation (at least for POW).  ASICs, which are built for a specific algorithm will eventually cause a de-valuation of the currency as they speed up and make generation virtually effortless.  Then you have to move to a new algorithm and re-design new ASICs for that algorithm, which takes significant cost and effort.

While I've been taking a break from mining it regularly, the difficulty is still quite low.

Not to the CPU miner it isn't.  Especially when someone starts throwing 50MH/s at it like they did last week and for a short time last night.

I'll have to take a look at this skimming you're talking about since I hadn't seen it happening or mentioned before today.  

As far as the one miner throwing ~13 MH/s at it, maybe that's just the speed of the ASIC they're using?  

The highly variable pattern doesn't suggest they're using fixed hardware.  I suspect they might be buying leases, but that would be just nutty from a $ cost standpoint.  

While I was never throwing that much at it, I was mining at a pretty high rate for a while there specifically to accumulate enough to implement the plan I have in mind. No way of asking them, so any guesses are pure speculation.

Let me put it this grossly over-simplified way.  If the baseline is 1 MH/s, you're likely to get about 50% the coins by adding another 1 MH/s.  If you add 10 MH/s you might get about 90% of the coins, but that extra 40% is costing you 9 MH/s. You're far better off running a 1 MH/s for a couple days, than running 10 MH/s, and it doesn't jack up the difficulty to the point of making it hard for smaller miners.

I don't think flailing around changing algos to follow the latest fad is a good idea. Algos designed specifically to "resist" ASICs are either (potentially) not going to implement on an ASIC at all, or they're going to do so in an inefficient manner.  I don't think it's in the long-term interests of the network to try to prevent the use of efficient ASICs.

The new algorithms are not "fads".  They are necessary for long-term success in any cryptography.  Once ASICs get to a specific performance point, then the algorithms they were designed for are no longer useful for the purpose.

The whole basis of cryptography is based on the computations to be difficult enough as to be impractical to use for unauthorized decrypting.  ASIC implementation is the end-stage of a crypto-algorithm's useful life span.

[IMJim]

hhhmm, you obviously know much more of what you are talking about here than I do!  I did say I was a novice and had much to learn lol.  What you said above though makes much sense!

Is the problem that the kng gravity well, or whatever it's called, resolves?  Can a resolution to the difficulty be applied without changing the algo entirely?

Well, you gave me much to think about anyhow......thanks!

[nincehelser]

I have to agree with worth regarding ASICs and the algo, scrypt is not hot right now, so will be the case with today's popular algos in a few short months.  ASICs are an inevitable part of evolution in this extremely fast paced industry.  Why shouldn't they be, they are WAY more energy efficient.......really crypto has created a MASSIVE amount of what some would call a complete waste of our planets resources.  GPU and CPU mining needs to and will die because of this in my opinion.....mining crypto currencies HAS to get more energy efficient and ASICs are part of that equation unfortunately.

But difficulty of computation is the whole basis of cryptography.  When you make crypto easy and energy efficient, the whole concept fails.

Here's the rub.  If you invest a whole lot in ASIC for cryto-currency, then a few months later a new ASIC comes out a magnitude of performance better, you're hosed.  ASICs, by their very definition can't be re-purposed.  That development money and production cost is just gone.  You shouldn't even invest in ASIC unless you're absolutely sure you're going to be able to recoup your investment before the next ASIC round or algorithm is implemented.

ASICs are nothing new.  I first used them 30 years ago in college.  They're the end-stage of the natural evolution of mass-produced circuits.  Generally companies don't invest in them until they are sure their circuitry is sufficiently mature so that their ROI is assured.

[IMJim]

I guess you just answered my above questions before I posted them.  Thanks for explanations, complete opposite than my thinking but makes great sense!

[nincehelser]

hhhmm, you obviously know much more of what you are talking about here than I do!  I did say I was a novice and had much to learn lol.  What you said above though makes much sense!

Is the problem that the kng gravity well, or whatever it's called, resolves?  Can a resolution to the difficulty be applied without changing the algo entirely?

Well, you gave me much to think about anyhow......thanks!

I've never studied that one in particular, but the goal of the difficulty change is to try to regulate how fast coins are produced by mining, not necessarily to protect the security of the algorithm itself from being implemented in an ASIC.

[wampumcoin.com]

[Insert EXPLETIVE here]! (corrected)

Hi gang, I was just in the middle of working on wampumcoin.com and I take a break to answer support messages that were lingering until monday and I discover ONE message about this 5,000 of 100,000 missing issue. I came here and I see it being discussed. Guys, we've said before, the best thing to do is contact us at wampumcoin.com - Strange thing is we've had some users say "don't use third party sites"... yet here we are picking up concerns on bitcointalk (and facebook?). Bitcointalk, facebook, twitter, etc. is only backup for us. I know I know... like I said, I'm working on wampumcoin.com. As a matter of fact, the cosmetics would be done if I weren't so busy with setting up the collaboration/project management system. I'm an administrator, not a techie. On that note...

I'll personally over see what the hell is going on with.

Wampumcoin.com, and Bitcoin Corporation does not actually mine yet, and they have left that up to me while they gear up, but they do want to do something like cex.io with a combination mining farm/exchange. Though it will soon change, for now I'm the only one of the 4 staff  mining a small amount. I'm happy to say that miner 'iplabs' has informed us of their plans to contribute equipment and hashing to wampumcoin.com. NICE. We love the help. Thank you!

Speaking of help, I see a few people sh*t talking. Have fun. It's only been what, a month since Bitcoin Corporation got involved? They're in the business of marketing altcoins but they're new to it and dealing with a learning curve. Word is they actually want to build a network of supporting coins and services. It's beyond my expertise. They set it up, show me the ropes and I do what I'm paid to do. My thing is wampumcoin right now. In other words, I'm trying to squeeze money and other resources out of them to grow wampumcoin. People criticize wampumcoin's current value, some of them not knowing the expenses behind the scene, of course. I remember hearing that bitcoin was worthless. Out of of "then air". Now governments are making laws. But I won't try to lecture.

[/soapbox stance]

Let me get back at you guys.

Brad
http://mining.wampumcoin.com

[nincehelser]

[Insert Exploitative here]!

That's a really, really poor choice of words given the current situation.   

Definition of EXPLOITATIVE

:  exploiting or tending to exploit; especially :  unfairly or cynically using another person or group for profit or advantage <exploitative terms of employment> <an exploitative film>

[marquix]

[Insert Exploitative here]!

(...)

Speaking of help, I see a few people sh*t talking. Have fun. It's only been what, a month since Bitcoin Corporation got involved? They're in the business of marketing altcoins but they're new to it and dealing with a learning curve. Word is they actually want to build a network of supporting coins and services. It's beyond my expertise. They set it up, show me the ropes and I do what I'm paid to do. My thing is wampumcoin right now. In other words, I'm trying to squeeze money and other resources out of them to grow wampumcoin. People criticize wampumcoin's current value, some of them not knowing the expenses behind the scene, of course. I remember hearing that bitcoin was worthless. Out of of "then air". Now governments are making laws. But I won't try to lecture.
(...)

Brad
wampumcoin.com

frankly, I don't understand the tone and voice of this either.

First off, it's a little over TWO months that "Bitcoin Corporation" got involved (not "one").

Then, you guys are "in the business of marketing altcoins" (did not know that there is such a business), but despite "being in that business" you, at the same time, strangely admit that you are "new to it", as in **want to be in the business of marketing Alt coins**, not really in it!

That isn't too hard to see anyway, and that's exactly why myself and a number of other guys here have repeatedly offered hands-on help (from populating that empty Wordpress template of yours to improving the texts, writing new ones, adding to the materials). Now, there isn't even a Mac wallet and the Linux wallet out there anymore. (I suppose, they have also been stolen by the old dev who picked the pros of the big corporation so clean...?) The links were there when you guys took over, please see to it that Wampumcoin has a complete set of Wallets available -- doesn't look too good without it! (Not to mention the paper wallet issue, i e lack of the same.)

None of these suggestions, ideas, offers, contributions have been taken up by Bitcoin Corporation though.

If you are so new, then let us help you -- we're a lot more experienced, I guess. We are a community where more than four people do, indeed, care and constantly come up with good ideas. But you ignore them. Still, you accuse people of "Sh*t talking" and are whining about others not adhering to your hoped-for censoring away of unwanted criticism. If you're so gaga about controlling what's said and done regarding Wampumcoin, then why not finally set up that "community message board" or DO any of the other useful things...?

Not really inspiring much confidence, particularly in light of your actual performance. You should, at the very least, be more responsive and not add to it by that inappropriate tone.

[groggin]

[Insert Exploitative here]!

(...)

Speaking of help, I see a few people sh*t talking. Have fun. It's only been what, a month since Bitcoin Corporation got involved? They're in the business of marketing altcoins but they're new to it and dealing with a learning curve. Word is they actually want to build a network of supporting coins and services. It's beyond my expertise. They set it up, show me the ropes and I do what I'm paid to do. My thing is wampumcoin right now. In other words, I'm trying to squeeze money and other resources out of them to grow wampumcoin. People criticize wampumcoin's current value, some of them not knowing the expenses behind the scene, of course. I remember hearing that bitcoin was worthless. Out of of "then air". Now governments are making laws. But I won't try to lecture.
(...)

Brad
wampumcoin.com

frankly, I don't understand the tone and voice of this either.

First off, it's a little over TWO months that "Bitcoin Corporation" got involved (not "one").

Then, you guys are "in the business of marketing altcoins" (did not know that there is such a business), but despite "being in that business" you, at the same time, strangely admit that you are "new to it", as in **want to be in the business of marketing Alt coins**, not really in it!

That isn't too hard to see anyway, and that's exactly why myself and a number of other guys here have repeatedly offered hands-on help (from populating that empty Wordpress template of yours to improving the texts, writing new ones, adding to the materials). Now, there isn't even a Mac wallet and the Linux wallet out there anymore. (Have they also be stolen by the old dev...?) The links were there when you guys took over, so see to it that Wampumcoin has a complete set of Wallets available -- doesn't look too good without it! (Not to mention the paper wallet issue, i e lack of it.)

None of these suggestions, ideas, offers, contributions have been taken up by Bitcoin Corporation though.

If you are so new, then let us help you -- we're a lot more experienced, I guess. We are a community where more than four people do, indeed, care and constantly come up with good ideas. But you ignore them. Still, you accuse people of "Sh*t talking" and are whining about others not adhering to your hoped-for censoring away of unwanted criticism.

Not really inspiring much confidence, particularly in light of your actual performance. You should, at the very least, be more responsive and not add to it by that inappropriate tone.

  
+1
honestly, it is looking as if they acquired wampum in order that it not become something. i do hope i'm dead wrong

yeah, the attitude kinda just shines through, don't it

sh"talk? = words without substance

[wampumcoin.com]

[hand in face]

Oh God, I hope that's not Freudian... wow.

Oh man, I meant "EXPLETIVE" as in "oh sh*t" in terms of figuring out whats going on with the 95000 instead of 100000. I'm so sorry.

I wanted to correct it so much that I didn't even read your other message yet. I just had to type this first...

Sorry about that. A bit over-worked I guess and stressed I guess...

Shoot, even wampumcoin.com was taken down for "routine maintenance" for 3 hours (1am to 3am central) by the datacenter with only a 3 day notice. Our sites are getting a blank screen (not the mining pool) causing some delays.

Brad
http://mining.Wampumcoin.com

[Insert Exploitative here]!

That's a really, really poor choice of words given the current situation.  

Definition of EXPLOITATIVE

:  exploiting or tending to exploit; especially :  unfairly or cynically using another person or group for profit or advantage <exploitative terms of employment> <an exploitative film>

[wampumcoin.com]

Ok,

Ok, Bitcoin Corporation's transaction was completed May 15,2014.
Goodness, I stand corrected - FORTY SEVEN DAYS.

We asked you guys to contact us via our sites. Only a couple have. I make an effort to get here and I get insulted, and our efforts are criticized and questioned.

No matter what I type my context is going to be inadequate for some of you. I'm only one person trying to explain things as I know it, based on my own job and what I'm told. I only go out in to the world to do something constructive. Tell you guys what. I'm having a hard time with people saying "I don't know if I believe these guys", or "think I'm going to bail". Myself, I'm either in or out (decided or undecided) with things. So, I'm in with Wampumcoin, via Bitcoin Corporation, and I'm letting my people know that I'm personally done here.

Bitcointalk is your your forum, your world, and I think my efforts are best served somewhere else. If you care about the coin, fine. If you don't, then that's going to have to be fine too. This forum is not ours and it's not mandated for us to interact, but we bothered because we thought it would be beneficial. It hasn't been. We should be doing like every serious business does. Get our house in order, advertise where productive, and run our own forums, services, and businesses for those interested.

So far only Worth and Iplabs have offered or done ANYTHING viable and helpful. Everyone else has been just talking, usually critically negative, not constructive. We can look in the mirror and do that. Hard as it might be to believe, we endeavored to do it more without anyone prompting.

If bitcoin corporation, me, or whoever else is lays dead in the water with wampumcoin a year from now. congratulations. You were right. If we're still eeking forward with this a year from now well woopty-doo...  Good for us, right?

You guys take care.

Iplabs, Worth, Goattrading, you guys have been great and your specific offers are making their rounds and I know a couple that are being seriously looked at. A lot of it is about logistics, management, money, and the law I'm told. Just staying on the right side of those things is a bit of an effort, let alone managing people.

nincehelser, I just report what I know or what I'm told. I believe you all deserve better than me to deal with your concerns. I really do believe you basically have the good of the coin, and perhaps even the entire altcoin community in mind and I hope to see you.

Brad

[Goattrading]

Brad

No Stress. Your part of a Corporation. Acting as COO in regards to Wampum. Treating the dissemination of information as such will be to your benefit.

Micro managing public expectations is for PR or IR to handle. In the case of a Corp. Completed tasks or milestones is/are the only information that PR or IR releases. (if your PR & IR keep that in mind)

Just Keep the completed information updated here, FB, Twitter, Website, Bitcoincorp blog ...... let everyone figure it out.


Check out Nutcoin as an example of having an vague long term outline, only posting completed info and letting everyone figure it out.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=397938.0

No Dev communication in months - But they have a long term outline in Very vague "seasons" posted on the Op page
Dev only posts when new season starts - dosnt explain it

4 mining pools - periodically up to 100MH (20-50 ave) - Also a scrypt coin

Tons of holders - people just waiting for the next season

Community donated over 50mill Nutcoins (might be 80 now) to be used for bounties when they find out what they need (held by community)

trading at 40 x 41 Nut/LTC
38.7802 LTC 24 hour volume
 https://www.allcoin.com/trade/NUT_LTC


I like AllCoin.com its a small clean exchange. It does need more liquidity, but it does have comkot beat and I have asked that it be added to the voting. Needs more requests to have it added.
https://www.allcoin.com/vote


If you need help with various aspects PM us.

How about turning this into a Google Doc that can be updated and checked off as its completed. Posted on another board causes this information to be lost.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=661701.0

And/Or start a project.

How about a coin facelift. @worth came up with a nice concept.

Iam not a graphic designer but I will add 10mill Wampum to bounty the winner of a new concept & Promote the contest.

Let me know. I will be heading out for the rest of the week tomorrow.

Happy Canada Day and coming Independence Day 

[damm315er]

Wow, just wow.

I thought the old dev's f***ed up wampum coin, this management 'team' is taking it to a whole new level...

This forum is one of the cores of crypto currency, not your own forum, blog, or facebook or twitter.  If you can't be bothered to come here and take a little heat, and proof-read your posts, then you don't deserve to have the community confidence in your coin.

[marquix]

Wow, just wow.

I thought the old dev's f***ed up wampum coin, this management 'team' is taking it to a whole new level...

This forum is one of the cores of crypto currency, not your own forum, blog, or facebook or twitter.  If you can't be bothered to come here and take a little heat, and proof-read your posts, then you don't deserve to have the community confidence in your coin.

+1

very well put.

From this, and all their other "achievements" as the marketing pros they are, it is quite obvious that they may see Crypto coins as a "coupon" or "voucher system" but fail to get the nature of their own Wampumcoin. So good luck with that...

[nincehelser]

Wow, just wow.

I thought the old dev's f***ed up wampum coin, this management 'team' is taking it to a whole new level...

This forum is one of the cores of crypto currency, not your own forum, blog, or facebook or twitter.  If you can't be bothered to come here and take a little heat, and proof-read your posts, then you don't deserve to have the community confidence in your coin.

+1

very well put.

From this, and all their other "achievements" as the marketing pros they are, it is quite obvious that they may see Crypto coins as a "coupon" or "voucher system" but fail to get the nature of their own Wampumcoin. So good luck with that...

+2

They never did answer my question about the missing 5%.  It's still missing.  I guess they didn't expect anyone to notice.

It looks like most folks have caught on, though, and left the pool to mine elsewhere or solo.

According to my calculations, mining should be long over before the end of this year.  What then?  With no miners and no incentive to mine, what's going to support the integrity of the block chain?  One guy and a couple of GPUs?  

[madmartyk]

I gave up mining this coin ages ago.  It isn't worth anything and has been sitting on the exchange for months with no one buying.