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Author Topic: Starfish BCB - Loans and Deposits  (Read 59869 times)
WifeOfStarfish
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September 13, 2012, 05:26:48 AM
 #381

It in no way can help the community when a new person comes to the forums and every thread that mentions prominant characters on the forum suddenly gets a response explaining how that person is scamming

I think it helps quite a bit. For one thing, it means that there are some honest people remaining.


Haven't read much of the thread. . .  Has the grown man who is a fan of children's TV shows and who rates every scam AAA+++ wound down his own investment program scam yet? 

Maybe it's the booze, but his latest posts seem to grant that some skullduggery occured (but the fault of someone else, of course). But he's holding fast! There has been some purging of records, too. A nice touch -- very Arthur Andersen.

Strangely, his wife has disappeared. A shame really. I do love me a good shillin' 4 times a day.

Been visiting my elderly father - somewhat more important than feeding the trolls here.

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WifeOfStarfish
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September 13, 2012, 05:37:12 AM
 #382

As an example, I have 1000 coins with HashKing that I don't worry about,
Yeah, Patrick seems to be an honest fool. When he wises up, he'll still be trustworthy. Hopefully, it only took one lesson.

I think you are giving him too much credit. His other actions strongly suggest that he knows fully well the likely consequences. His posting tactics (including those of his wife -- sorry, it's true) seem to go a bit too far for him to be just an "honest fool."

Let's see how moderate your language would be when your dearly beloved is being trolled FOR NO REASON! He has never behaved less than impeccably in his business here yet since Pirate's gone he's the next easy target.

I have as much right as you to be here but I get called ''shill'' (whatever that means) etc. I guess I make an easy target.

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September 13, 2012, 06:03:52 AM
 #383

He has never behaved less than impeccably in his business here yet since Pirate's gone he's the next easy target.
Has he yet disclosed to his investors what obligations he has, what assets he will use to cover those obligations, and what losses are being passed on to them? If not, I'd say he's behaving at least a bit less than impeccably.

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BinaryMage
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September 13, 2012, 07:49:31 AM
 #384

Been visiting my elderly father - somewhat more important than feeding the trolls here.

My regards; hope he's doing well.

He has never behaved less than impeccably in his business here yet since Pirate's gone he's the next easy target.

I have as much right as you to be here but I get called ''shill'' (whatever that means) etc. I guess I make an easy target.

I don't think it's insomuch that Patrick is an easy target as that everyone offering interest (at least that I have seen) is being targeted or has been targeted in the past few weeks.

'Shill' is a derogatory term used to indicate a company/service advocate claiming no relation with the company. Whomever has called you that probably needs to reread a dictionary, as you've disclosed your relationship pretty clearly.

Again, you don't make an easier target than many - everyone remotely connected with any interest-providing service, and plenty not connected, are being trolled. A few for good reason, but most just because of a large amount of general animosity, a few instigators who the 'mob' of trolls follow like sheep, and some major fallout from multiple defaults, mainly Pirate, in a small period of time. It will pass eventually, don't take it personally.

I do wonder why you spend time on these forums, but then again most days I wonder why I spend time on these forums.

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September 13, 2012, 08:17:58 AM
 #385

blah blah blah - trolls are getting old and rather uninteresting

I was advised recently (last hour or so) that I now have an imposter on IRC.  that's getting really sad - I hope whoever it is has a real life
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September 13, 2012, 11:34:47 AM
 #386

Dont let the bastards get you down Patrick.
BadBitcoin (James Sutton)
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September 13, 2012, 01:42:48 PM
 #387

As an example, I have 1000 coins with HashKing that I don't worry about,
Yeah, Patrick seems to be an honest fool. When he wises up, he'll still be trustworthy. Hopefully, it only took one lesson.

I think you are giving him too much credit. His other actions strongly suggest that he knows fully well the likely consequences. His posting tactics (including those of his wife -- sorry, it's true) seem to go a bit too far for him to be just an "honest fool."

Let's see how moderate your language would be when your dearly beloved is being trolled FOR NO REASON! He has never behaved less than impeccably in his business here yet since Pirate's gone he's the next easy target.

I have as much right as you to be here but I get called ''shill'' (whatever that means) etc. I guess I make an easy target.

keep at it mrs. harnett, your husband has my respect and a few others, don't let these forum trolls get to you.
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September 13, 2012, 02:25:47 PM
 #388

He has never behaved less than impeccably in his business here yet since Pirate's gone he's the next easy target.
Has he yet disclosed to his investors what obligations he has, what assets he will use to cover those obligations, and what losses are being passed on to them? If not, I'd say he's behaving at least a bit less than impeccably.

Shouldn't this be something very easy to put together? Would be a quick way to make the trolls go away.

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September 13, 2012, 03:07:15 PM
 #389

Would be a quick way to make the trolls go away.
   Roll Eyes  The very fact that they are labelled trolls makes that highly unlikely.

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September 13, 2012, 03:46:01 PM
 #390

Would be a quick way to make the trolls go away.
   Roll Eyes  The very fact that they are labelled trolls makes that highly unlikely.

I guess "troll" is directly proportional to the level of transparency they're asking for.

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September 13, 2012, 04:36:49 PM
 #391

He has never behaved less than impeccably in his business here yet since Pirate's gone he's the next easy target.
Has he yet disclosed to his investors what obligations he has, what assets he will use to cover those obligations, and what losses are being passed on to them? If not, I'd say he's behaving at least a bit less than impeccably.

Shouldn't this be something very easy to put together? Would be a quick way to make the trolls go away.

If the list is going to be itemized, that's a privacy concern.

If it isn't, then haven't we been shown those numbers already?

I'm not sure the lack of such information impacts Patrick's peccability at all.

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JoelKatz
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September 13, 2012, 05:14:47 PM
 #392

If the list is going to be itemized, that's a privacy concern.
If you default on a loan, do you really have a right to hide your identity from the people who loaned you that money? Surely a promise of anonymity would be conditional on keeping the promise to pay. Even if not explicitly stated as such, if you promise to pay me $50/week and I promise to give you my car after 20 weeks, I sure as heck don't have to give you the car if you don't pay. And if they are kept anonymous, how can the people eating the default know that the default actually occurred?

Quote
If it isn't, then haven't we been shown those numbers already?
Not quite. Patrick has posted and then unposted numbers. He hasn't, at least as far as I am aware, made a list of actual defaulted loans, even without their identity.

Quote
I'm not sure the lack of such information impacts Patrick's peccability at all.
It's the difference between "Sorry, you lost 100 Bitcoins" and "Sorry, you lost 100 Bitcoins because I loaned 100 Bitcoins to Jeff in early December, transaction ID Y, and he made interest payments until last week, and has since been unable to pay principal." The former asks for a level of trust that would be unnecessary if he were telling the truth. It's roughly the difference between just telling someone else their property was stolen versus giving them a copy of the police report.

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September 13, 2012, 07:07:48 PM
 #393

He has never behaved less than impeccably in his business here yet since Pirate's gone he's the next easy target.
Has he yet disclosed to his investors what obligations he has, what assets he will use to cover those obligations, and what losses are being passed on to them? If not, I'd say he's behaving at least a bit less than impeccably.

Shouldn't this be something very easy to put together? Would be a quick way to make the trolls go away.

If the list is going to be itemized, that's a privacy concern.

If it isn't, then haven't we been shown those numbers already?

I'm not sure the lack of such information impacts Patrick's peccability at all.

+1
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September 13, 2012, 07:19:47 PM
 #394

+1

IF you are going to +1 it, you might at least address Joel's point. Why would you want to protect the anonymity of defaulted lenders from the depositors that have to pay for it?
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September 13, 2012, 07:44:22 PM
 #395

+1

IF you are going to +1 it, you might at least address Joel's point. Why would you want to protect the anonymity of defaulted lenders from the depositors that have to pay for it?

Joel is on ignore. As for the question, presumably you wouldn't need to protect the anonymity unless it harms collection efforts, which it very well may.
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September 13, 2012, 08:28:01 PM
 #396

Dont let the bastards get you down Patrick.


Actually, they are proving to be slightly irritating noise in the back ground currently, and I rather don't care what they have to say.  The people I do care about are the people that have funds tied up in this mess, and while the trolls may have "saved" people from themselves and can have some nice "I told you so", they are probably the largest contributors to the current situation.  They would of course deny that and probably spend the next few hours explaining why I am wrong.

Anyway, weekly interest has been paid, and available funds (loan repayment proceeds) have been pro-rata paid to those with withdrawal requests.  Transactions will hit the blockchain when the wallet syncs properly.

Updated list of balances at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=61262.msg981017#msg981017
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September 13, 2012, 08:35:40 PM
 #397

IF you are going to +1 it, you might at least address Joel's point. Why would you want to protect the anonymity of defaulted lenders from the depositors that have to pay for it?
Joel is on ignore. As for the question, presumably you wouldn't need to protect the anonymity unless it harms collection efforts, which it very well may.
Not sure why I'm responding to someone who has my on ignore, but I do agree that if breaching anonymity would harm collection efforts, that would justify preserving it. I would think the depositors deserve to be told specifically which loans are being kept anonymous for that reason, and if there wasn't reasonable progress towards collection on a reasonable schedule, anonymity should then be breached. Without being a jerk, the threat of publicized default can be leveraged to obtain collection. It's not that you're abusing this to pressure them to pay, it's just that realistically, those covering the default are entitled to either reasonable payments or knowing who defaulted on them.

The tricky case would be the guy who says something like, "Keep me anonymous, and I'll pay 35%. Tell anyone who I am, and I'll pay nothing."

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September 13, 2012, 08:48:48 PM
 #398

Not sure why I'm responding to someone who has my on ignore, but I do agree that if breaching anonymity would harm collection efforts, that would justify preserving it. I would think the depositors deserve to be told specifically which loans are being kept anonymous for that reason, and if there wasn't reasonable progress towards collection on a reasonable schedule, anonymity should then be breached. Without being a jerk, the threat of publicized default can be leveraged to obtain collection. It's not that you're abusing this to pressure them to pay, it's just that realistically, those covering the default are entitled to either reasonable payments or knowing who defaulted on them.

The tricky case would be the guy who says something like, "Keep me anonymous, and I'll pay 35%. Tell anyone who I am, and I'll pay nothing."


Not so tricky. Patrick should then simply make public the extortion and let deposit holders decide if they want to accept it or not. Its their money on the line, so its their choice if they would rather lose 100% but know who owes it,  or 65% to someone unknown.
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September 13, 2012, 09:43:17 PM
 #399

weekly interest has been paid, and available funds (loan repayment proceeds) have been pro-rata paid

received

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September 13, 2012, 11:27:27 PM
 #400

Anyway, weekly interest has been paid, and available funds (loan repayment proceeds) have been pro-rata paid to those with withdrawal requests.  Transactions will hit the blockchain when the wallet syncs properly.

Waitwaitwait. You can't pay all the loan requests, but you can pay interest? Where are those interest payments coming from? I hope when you say "weekly interest paid" you mean you actually took what you received in interest, and split it up between all the investors, so that their actual BTC holding accounts have increased, instead of just increasing everyone's interest on paper, and giving out ALL available BTC to cover withdrawal requests.

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