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Author Topic: Starfish BCB - Loans and Deposits  (Read 56230 times)
ripper234
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August 31, 2012, 12:45:57 PM
 #221

To date meeting withdrawal requests has still been achieved reasonably quickly (basically within a day).  If I was to receive a request for 2k from one of my largest depositors, I do not see a good reason why that would or could extend beyond a couple of weeks allowing me to sensibly move or liquidate some assets.  If everyone asked for their funds back (16k), that would take a lot longer.

Can you give a specific upper bound?
What if you received a withdraw request from everyone, today?

Please do not pm me, use ron@bitcoin.org.il instead
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August 31, 2012, 04:08:04 PM
 #222

I sent a PM to Patrick on August 30, 2012, 04:52:17 PM asking to withdraw 105 BTC, and received a reply on August 30, 2012, 05:10:49 PM saying "Done".  With a smiley face too!

Thanks for the great service Patrick.  Smiley

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August 31, 2012, 04:37:07 PM
 #223

All of my (admittedly small) withdrawals have been done within 24 hours.


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August 31, 2012, 08:22:43 PM
 #224

To date meeting withdrawal requests has still been achieved reasonably quickly (basically within a day).  If I was to receive a request for 2k from one of my largest depositors, I do not see a good reason why that would or could extend beyond a couple of weeks allowing me to sensibly move or liquidate some assets.  If everyone asked for their funds back (16k), that would take a lot longer.

Can you give a specific upper bound?
What if you received a withdraw request from everyone, today?

As discussed directly with you, and as set out above, a request to extract 16,000 BTC would take a long time.  In order to generate returns to pay interest takes time and effort and perhaps it isn't appreciated that there are not simple quick tricks generating income.  I have a diversified portfolio of investments, a good mix of customers and carry the risk from bad loans and the timing of requests.  As such, it also requires me to carry higher liquid funds than something like a bricks and mortar bank.  Also, as I have said above, the past two weeks have seen many more coins sent out than received.  That is a mix of nervousness from people wanting to put coins under their mattress, my decision to largely halt deposits (although I have allowed some), and meeting commitments from my own funds.

I am not going to set a "specific" upper bound as to do so would likely see it breached at some time in the future (say if the ten largest depositors decided to leave).  If this is not acceptable, please send a withdrawal request and I will process it as rapidly as possible.
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August 31, 2012, 10:35:21 PM
 #225

Patrick is awesome, took care of my btc and gave good return, now withdrawn with no problems, thank you.
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September 01, 2012, 10:31:50 PM
 #226

I've been doing a couple of loans the past few days and bitcoinland appears to be settling down a bit.  I've also allowed a few new accounts based on specific requests.  Therefore, I'm re-opening deposits for accounts up to 100BTC.  As usual, funds will be applied to loans and investments in low risk ventures (including fixed rate bonds and some mining because they still generate decent returns). 
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September 01, 2012, 10:53:07 PM
 #227

Please note the discussion and in particular the following assessment at: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=105285.msg1153048#msg1153048

sadpandatech
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September 02, 2012, 05:23:07 PM
 #228

Please note the discussion and in particular the following assessment at: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=105285.msg1153048#msg1153048



I'm going to be nice and just leave it at this. That guy has serious issues and his motives are any thing but trying to look out or anyone but number 1.

You can't look at APR when loans are on a weekly or monthly scale.

He intentionally left out that you have stopped deposits when the market got too volatile when using that as a reason to state another lender was legit.

Sadly, I just don't have the energy to go put it straight. It's disturbing to see some others there eating out of his palm with the severe lack of any technical analysis of the short term industry.

One more to add to my ignore list is all.

Might be helpful if you have more of your borrowers come in here and post in the thread that they are borrowing at 2% per week and happy to do so. I think it will be a long time in the Bitcoin world before it is feasible to not have MPR = to real world APR. That is how I consider it because of the quick turn over nature of BTC. In the future it will need to be adjusted and I'm fairly sure that it will be those who are much more adept in finance than Micon that will know when that should be.

That is all.

cheers,
 Panda

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September 02, 2012, 05:25:41 PM
 #229

Please note the discussion and in particular the following assessment at: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=105285.msg1153048#msg1153048



I'm going to be nice and just leave it at this. That guy has serious issues and his motives are any thing but trying to look out or anyone but number 1.

You can't look at APR when loans are on a weekly or monthly scale.

He intentionally left out that you have stopped deposits when the market got too volatile when using that as a reason to state another lender was legit.

Sadly, I just don't have the energy to go put it straight. It's disturbing to see some others there eating out of his palm with the severe lack of any technical analysis of the short term industry.

One more to add to my ignore list is all.

Might be helpful if you have more of your borrowers come in here and post in the thread that they are borrowing at 2% per week and happy to do so. I think it will be a long time in the Bitcoin world before it is feasible to not have MPR = to real world APR. That is how I consider it because of the quick turn over nature of BTC. In the future it will need to be adjusted and I'm fairly sure that it will be those who are much more adept in finance than Micon that will know whne that should be.

That is all.

cheers,
 Panda

+1 sorry for the massive quote I'm on my phone,  but Micoin seems to be deliberately ignoring the fact that the basis of this lending is very short term loans, whilst mentioning sealswithclubs at every opportunity. I wonder what *he* is up to.
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September 02, 2012, 08:17:13 PM
 #230

I would like to apologise for the crap in the lending section.  I thought it would be useful to seek some clarification about what it would take for Starfish to achieve the mythical Micon seal of approval.  What that turned out to be was essentially revealing the details of every piece of business that I transact in bitcoinland.  Despite the fact that it doesn't all take place in the blockchain, and providing a couple of references, my concern that they would focus on any gaps was rapidly confirmed.  I do not think exposing customer details in such a blatant way is a good idea and so I've given up on that for now and will let those that think I have poor judgement and am running a scam continue to believe so.

Also of interest, I exchanged pm's with nrd525 regarding his nine-point checklist for ponzi spotting.  I was applying it to my Kraken Fund and entities like a real bank or a corporate like Apple.  I considered it would be useful if he provided an assessment.  I received a nice reply which, other than saying he wouldn't like to be associated with me, where he asked a couple of sensible questions that I answered for him.  Apparently I baffle him doing what I do here.
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September 02, 2012, 09:45:05 PM
 #231

Well, lets baffle them all some more.  I am submitting a loan request to your inbox at an insane APR. ;p

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
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September 02, 2012, 10:16:14 PM
 #232

Well, lets baffle them all some more.  I am submitting a loan request to your inbox at an insane APR. ;p

Beware, you'll be accused of being a shill and encouraging children to lose their pocket money.  Based on how BS&T people were treated, that is a risk for you (and others).
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September 02, 2012, 10:25:21 PM
 #233

No worries here, m8. Like you, I'm a big boy and contrary to what some of the more rabid 'white knights' may believe, there are a lot more highly intelligent peoples around here who can maths and stuffs than they give the community credit for. ;p I'll admit I suck at 'Log' math though. Stuff makes me wanna gouge my eyeballs out. =)

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
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September 02, 2012, 10:41:18 PM
 #234

No worries here, m8. Like you, I'm a big boy and contrary to what some of the more rabid 'white knights' may believe, there are a lot more highly intelligent peoples around here who can maths and stuffs than they give the community credit for. ;p I'll admit I suck at 'Log' math though. Stuff makes me wanna gouge my eyeballs out. =)

I had trouble with partial derivatives so fail comp methods, but I did pass my 1st year calculus and thought the algebra paper deserved a better mark.  So only ended up with an undergrad science degree (double in Statistics and Computer Science) and post grad commerce degree (Operations Research).  But, I'm just a starfish.

BTW - loan funds on their way.
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September 02, 2012, 11:14:49 PM
 #235

I thought it would be useful to seek some clarification about what it would take for Starfish to achieve the mythical Micon seal of approval.  What that turned out to be was essentially revealing the details of every piece of business that I transact in bitcoinland. 

Nothing Mythical about it.  Anyone offering to borrow more money at 1% per week after having already borrowed ~$200k USD and with a positive balance sheet appears to be a scam.  I am willing to debate this with you.  Please answer me the following question about your balance sheet:

Quote from: PatrickHarnett
July 2012 activity (updated 1 August 2012)
 - 14 loans repaid  (approx 7800BTC)
 - 32 loans current (approx 8800 BTC)
 - 66 deposits (total approx 15400)
 - deposits repaid during the month (at call) >3600

Total liabilities (Deposits + other commitments) = 19,700
Total assets (cash, BTC, investments) = 37,100
Net assets 17,400BTC

this seems to me that you claim to owe 19,700 BTC to current depositors.  
you claim to have 37,100 BTC between cash / BTC / investments

Q:  Why would you ever need to borrow another satoshi at 1% if you have 17,400 BTC profit ?

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sadpandatech
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September 02, 2012, 11:20:41 PM
 #236

Q:  Why would you ever need to borrow another satoshi at 1% if you have 17,400 BTC profit ?

Where did you come up with his net assets being labeled as 'profit' from this;

Total liabilities (Deposits + other commitments) = 19,700
Total assets (cash, BTC, investments) = 37,100
Net assets 17,400BTC

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
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September 02, 2012, 11:29:04 PM
 #237

Anyone offering to borrow more money at 1% per week after having already borrowed ~$200k USD and with a positive balance sheet appears to be a scam.

Where do you calculate this vast richness from?
If he borrows at 1% and lends out at 2% per week then he would have profit of;
$200,000 ^ .01 = $2000

That's not quite enough to retire on. And is likely barely enough to invest much more time in than what he does now.

Not even sure where you got 200k from;

For July we see;
 - 14 loans repaid  (approx 7800BTC)
 - 32 loans current (approx 8800 BTC)
 - 66 deposits (total approx 15400)

if we calculate it on 1% borrowing percent and 2% lending % per week.
 - 14 loans repaid  (approx 7800BTC)  brought in 624BTC for the month
and
 - 66 deposits (total approx 15400)  got paid out 616BTC for the month

Leaving the Lending institution with a gain of 8BTC from loans

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
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September 02, 2012, 11:35:05 PM
 #238

Why would I require more deposits?  Actually I don't.
Where are all of these other "riches"?  It's no secret I have a BS&T account - the numbers shown covered everything.  But Starfish deposits don't go there.  I now also have Kraken to account for and have had 7Seas for a while.  If I split them up, then it would be easy to hide things between accounts, so taking an overall picture was logical.
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September 03, 2012, 05:19:46 AM
 #239

I thought it would be useful to seek some clarification about what it would take for Starfish to achieve the mythical Micon seal of approval.  What that turned out to be was essentially revealing the details of every piece of business that I transact in bitcoinland. 

Nothing Mythical about it.  Anyone offering to borrow more money at 1% per week after having already borrowed ~$200k USD and with a positive balance sheet appears to be a scam.  I am willing to debate this with you.  Please answer me the following question about your balance sheet:

Quote from: PatrickHarnett
July 2012 activity (updated 1 August 2012)
 - 14 loans repaid  (approx 7800BTC)
 - 32 loans current (approx 8800 BTC)
 - 66 deposits (total approx 15400)
 - deposits repaid during the month (at call) >3600

Total liabilities (Deposits + other commitments) = 19,700
Total assets (cash, BTC, investments) = 37,100
Net assets 17,400BTC

this seems to me that you claim to owe 19,700 BTC to current depositors.  
you claim to have 37,100 BTC between cash / BTC / investments

Q:  Why would you ever need to borrow another satoshi at 1% if you have 17,400 BTC profit ?


Hmmm...On the one hand we have Micon's unqualified opinions and on the other - a starfish with a masters degree in commerce. It's down to the wire but I think the starfish has the tiniest edge re. credibility.

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September 03, 2012, 05:37:57 AM
 #240

I thought it would be useful to seek some clarification about what it would take for Starfish to achieve the mythical Micon seal of approval.  What that turned out to be was essentially revealing the details of every piece of business that I transact in bitcoinland. 

Nothing Mythical about it.  Anyone offering to borrow more money at 1% per week after having already borrowed ~$200k USD and with a positive balance sheet appears to be a scam.  I am willing to debate this with you.  Please answer me the following question about your balance sheet:

Quote from: PatrickHarnett
July 2012 activity (updated 1 August 2012)
 - 14 loans repaid  (approx 7800BTC)
 - 32 loans current (approx 8800 BTC)
 - 66 deposits (total approx 15400)
 - deposits repaid during the month (at call) >3600

Total liabilities (Deposits + other commitments) = 19,700
Total assets (cash, BTC, investments) = 37,100
Net assets 17,400BTC

this seems to me that you claim to owe 19,700 BTC to current depositors.  
you claim to have 37,100 BTC between cash / BTC / investments

Q:  Why would you ever need to borrow another satoshi at 1% if you have 17,400 BTC profit ?


Hmmm...On the one hand we have Micon's unqualified opinions and on the other - a starfish with a masters degree in commerce. It's down to the wire but I think the starfish has the tiniest edge re. credibility.

1) I'm a college drop out, I have no degrees of any sort.

2) I expect this question to be dodged over and over, so I'm going to keep posting it and "Starfish" is going to keep not responding:

Quote from: PatrickHarnett
July 2012 activity (updated 1 August 2012)
 - 14 loans repaid  (approx 7800BTC)
 - 32 loans current (approx 8800 BTC)
 - 66 deposits (total approx 15400)
 - deposits repaid during the month (at call) >3600

Total liabilities (Deposits + other commitments) = 19,700
Total assets (cash, BTC, investments) = 37,100
Net assets 17,400BTC

Do you claim to have 17,400 BTC in profit?   

Total liabilities (Deposits + other commitments) = 19,700  <---- this is the total number of deposits you have on hand from your "investors" ?

Chairman SwCPoker.eu Bitcoin Poker 2.0 |  Pro Poker Player  |  blog & podcas DonkDown.com | @BryanMicon | 2015- PGP Key
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