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Author Topic: Starfish BCB - Loans and Deposits  (Read 56190 times)
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September 19, 2012, 04:55:24 PM
 #441

sure they are in default, my father defaulted on a real life line of credit and declared bankraupcy, does that make him a scammer?

I never said that. I said those people where in default and/or scammers. The difference to creditors isnt that big though.

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Hashking put his trust in usagi for insurance,

AFAIK Hashking put the  guaranteed deposits in to a pirate account all by himself and has admitted to that.

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and usagi is a complete toolbox.

Cant disagree with that, its probably just a matter of time before he ends up on that list too.

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and credit ratings are as valuable as the person giving them out, they have no legal basis and I could give patrick a rating of AAA for his stellar service I've had with him, however he has no legal credentials or responsibilty to the public as would be the case of a professional acting in a professional capacity.

What is a credit rating? Its an assessment of someone ability to repay his debt. Its not an assessment of how much you like a guy or how well he served you. Its not even about their past track record.

To be fair, its very difficult to assess credit risks in bitcoin land with anonymous people and virtually anonymous coins. Thats why one shouldnt go lightly about giving highest possible credit ratings to people you dont know anything about, doing a business they wont tell you anything about, and that more often than not a 10 year old could identify as almost certain scams.

The worst part about it is that the scammers will abuse you and feed you false information that you can not verify or that they wont let you verify. If you can not do the most basic verification of things like identify, RL financial situation, business model, assets of the business etc, then dont bother giving ratings or give them all F's, otherwise all you do it attract and promote scams and you give a negative incentive to honest people or businesses to disclose such information. Why settle for C when you get AAA by just lying or not disclosing?
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September 19, 2012, 04:56:26 PM
 #442


The BTC to USD appreciation has made the BTC valuation of the gear exceptionally low compared to what it was bought for.  So I liquidate the gear, then what?  Magically come up with the rest of the coins?

So you are insolvent. Thanks for confirming.

No, I'm Illiquid.  There's a difference.

Indeed there is. Look up the meaning of the word insolvent. If liquidating your gear doesnt allow you to settle your debt, then you are insolvent.
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September 19, 2012, 05:11:54 PM
 #443

sure they are in default, my father defaulted on a real life line of credit and declared bankraupcy, does that make him a scammer?

I never said that. I said those people where in default and/or scammers. The difference to creditors isnt that big though.

Quote
Hashking put his trust in usagi for insurance,

AFAIK Hashking put the  guaranteed deposits in to a pirate account all by himself and has admitted to that.

Quote
and usagi is a complete toolbox.

Cant disagree with that, its probably just a matter of time before he ends up on that list too.

Quote
and credit ratings are as valuable as the person giving them out, they have no legal basis and I could give patrick a rating of AAA for his stellar service I've had with him, however he has no legal credentials or responsibilty to the public as would be the case of a professional acting in a professional capacity.

What is a credit rating? Its an assessment of someone ability to repay his debt. Its not an assessment of how much you like a guy or how well he served you. Its not even about their past track record.

To be fair, its very difficult to assess credit risks in bitcoin land with anonymous people and virtually anonymous coins. Thats why one shouldnt go lightly about giving highest possible credit ratings to people you dont know anything about, doing a business they wont tell you anything about, and that more often than not a 10 year old could identify as almost certain scams.

The worst part about it is that the scammers will abuse you and feed you false information that you can not verify or that they wont let you verify. If you can not do the most basic verification of things like identify, RL financial situation, business model, assets of the business etc, then dont bother giving ratings or give them all F's, otherwise all you do it attract and promote scams and you give a negative incentive to honest people or businesses to disclose such information. Why settle for C when you get AAA by just lying or not disclosing?

I don't want to put words in patricks mouth but hes not around to defend his methods.

He does credit checks the same way he decides if an investment is sound, by doing a full verification of all assets and financials, he doesn't release them because they are private (obviously), however even with a sound business model and flow diagrams you can get a string of bad investments (hashking comes to mind, or kluge) and go from far in the green to insolvent in a matter of hours.


TL;DR for everyone reading: hashking didn't scam anyone out of their money, he just lied (intentionally or not) about his fund being guarenteed and his insured pirate fund, and now everyone is angry over the words he used, EVEN THOUGH obviously you shouldn't assume his words to be correct, because this is an anonymous internet forum.

And even shorter,

Take a look at my  machine learning/economics/engineering blog!
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September 19, 2012, 05:44:28 PM
 #444

TL;DR for everyone reading: hashking didn't scam anyone out of their money, he just lied

So he "just lied" (for his own financial benefit) and lost your coins. If thats not a scam, I dont know what is.

Definition of scam
noun
informal
a dishonest scheme; a fraud:

But if you want to continue discussing that, we better do it another thread, as for Starfish it doesnt really matter if its a scam or an accident, all that matter is that his debt (if any) will most likely never be repaid in full.
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September 19, 2012, 08:35:58 PM
 #445

Loans recently repaid from Ravi and JasinLee and payments from Sadpandatech, AndyRossy and Quickbitcoins amongst others.

Mixmastermine has decided to run/default, but it appears others have lost many more coins to him than I have (only 160) so despite him being a good customer earlier in the year, he's not now.  Highlights the importance time-stamping credit ratings because things change (so the paste of the WPW thread material needs to note the time at which the ratings were done.)

Next set of payments scheduled to go out tomorrow as planed/advised.
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September 19, 2012, 10:00:42 PM
 #446

I honestly don't know how Patrick keeps a cool head with all this spamming/trolling going on.

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September 19, 2012, 11:25:55 PM
 #447


Mixmastermine has decided to run/default, but it appears others have lost many more coins to him than I have (only 160) so despite him being a good customer earlier in the year, he's not now.  Highlights the importance time-stamping credit ratings because things change (so the paste of the WPW thread material needs to note the time at which the ratings were done.)


Thank god I stopped lending for a while when I did, I was about to give him one :X

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September 20, 2012, 12:17:23 AM
 #448

I honestly don't know how Patrick keeps a cool head with all this spamming/trolling going on.

I was thinking the same thing.  He somehow rises above the shouting and name-calling and carries on with business the best he can.  Smiley

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September 20, 2012, 05:38:14 AM
 #449

I honestly don't know how Patrick keeps a cool head with all this spamming/trolling going on.

I was thinking the same thing.  He somehow rises above the shouting and name-calling and carries on with business the best he can.  Smiley

I think it's pretty amazing. But his current debts must be a bit more stressful then the trolling. On his last list of deposits a week ago https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=61262.msg981017#msg981017 he was in debt 18086.32 bitcoins ($228972.81) meaning weekly interest payments of 180.86 bitcoins ($2289.69) and the only way he's got to cover that money is by lending to the worst possible borrowers in society who are willing to accept loans at 286% APR, and are facing repayments while the currency has experienced deflation of over 10% in the last week!! it's almost like his business doesn't make any sense!

Just to clarify my position there is so much kind support for Patric's honesty and integrity on this forum I think you're all incredible fucking idiots and I'm happy to be labelled a troll.
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September 20, 2012, 07:11:50 AM
 #450

I think it's pretty amazing. But his current debts must be a bit more stressful then the trolling. On his last list of deposits a week ago https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=61262.msg981017#msg981017 he was in debt 18086.32 bitcoins ($228972.81) meaning weekly interest payments of 180.86 bitcoins ($2289.69) and the only way he's got to cover that money is by lending to the worst possible borrowers in society who are willing to accept loans at 286% APR, and are facing repayments while the currency has experienced deflation of over 10% in the last week!! it's almost like his business doesn't make any sense!

Just to clarify my position there is so much kind support for Patric's honesty and integrity on this forum I think you're all incredible fucking idiots and I'm happy to be labelled a troll.


Ahh, I understand now. You wish to deposit some coins with Patrick, but too shy to ask. Don't worry. As a favour, I'll put a good word in for you. He might be able to squeeze you in.

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September 20, 2012, 07:19:32 AM
 #451

I think it's pretty amazing. But his current debts must be a bit more stressful then the trolling. On his last list of deposits a week ago https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=61262.msg981017#msg981017 he was in debt 18086.32 bitcoins ($228972.81) meaning weekly interest payments of 180.86 bitcoins ($2289.69) and the only way he's got to cover that money is by lending to the worst possible borrowers in society who are willing to accept loans at 286% APR, and are facing repayments while the currency has experienced deflation of over 10% in the last week!! it's almost like his business doesn't make any sense!

Just to clarify my position there is so much kind support for Patric's honesty and integrity on this forum I think you're all incredible fucking idiots and I'm happy to be labelled a troll.


Ahh, I understand now. You wish to deposit some coins with Patrick, but too shy to ask. Don't worry. As a favour, I'll put a good word in for you. He might be able to squeeze you in.

Yeah lol, it's like laying a bet at 100/1 that this week nothings going to go wrong!!! I can just back a shit horse to lose on Betfair and save you the bother mate.
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September 20, 2012, 07:25:31 AM
 #452


Just to clarify my position there is so much kind support for Patric's honesty and integrity on this forum I think you're all incredible fucking idiots and I'm happy to be labelled a troll.


Oh, come on! Not all of them are incredible fucking idiots. Plenty are scammers.
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September 20, 2012, 07:29:06 AM
 #453


Just to clarify my position there is so much kind support for Patric's honesty and integrity on this forum I think you're all incredible fucking idiots and I'm happy to be labelled a troll.


Oh, come on! Not all of them are incredible fucking idiots. Plenty are scammers.

Yeah wasn't calling Patrick an idiot to give him credit he's raised nearly $1/4m of unsecured debt from people in a different continent in less than 8 months!
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September 20, 2012, 07:33:30 AM
 #454

I honestly don't know how Patrick keeps a cool head with all this spamming/trolling going on.

I was thinking the same thing.  He somehow rises above the shouting and name-calling and carries on with business the best he can.  Smiley

Id be more impressed if he was honest and open about the amount of money he is owed and how much of it is in default or deemed at risk.
Patrick rated himself AAA (later removed), the same credit rating Apple or the Swiss government has, but somehow I think he is not quite that solvent.

Current investors, particularly the ones waiting for their deposits to be returned should have the right to be able to make a judgment of starfish solvency, and thus of the value of their credit,  thats based on facts and numbers, and not just the number of "I love patrick" posts.
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September 20, 2012, 02:37:41 PM
 #455

Well I requested withdrawal of a significant deposit not too long ago, received 23% within a week, now getting ~4-5% total per week payments. Estimated time of repayment in full, 16 weeks. I wouldn't sell the debit for less than 10% discount at the moment, and that would be about break even point with principal - interest from original deposit.
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September 20, 2012, 09:41:40 PM
 #456

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=61262.msg981017#msg981017

Balance table updated, payments being fed to the blockchain.
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September 20, 2012, 10:38:39 PM
 #457

just wondering, since you said my 5,7 btc withdrawal would take a while because i'm on the waiting list. how much longer should i wait ? not getting impatient. just want to save myself the time to browse this topic every day.

thanks in advance !
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September 20, 2012, 11:10:32 PM
 #458

just wondering, since you said my 5,7 btc withdrawal would take a while because i'm on the waiting list. how much longer should i wait ? not getting impatient. just want to save myself the time to browse this topic every day.

thanks in advance !

Sorry, I missed a payment - remedied.
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September 21, 2012, 12:36:02 PM
 #459

http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=696

Plain and simple, escrow-ed, I bet 1 bitcoin that PatrickHarnett does not pay back all investors in this program by the end of this year. 

think he will? 

"I trust Starfish" ?

let's see how much you trust him in terms of BTC bet on him paying back everyone in full with 3+ months to do it.

Chairman SwCPoker.eu Bitcoin Poker 2.0 |  Pro Poker Player  |  blog & podcas DonkDown.com | @BryanMicon | 2015- PGP Key
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September 21, 2012, 12:41:43 PM
 #460

http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=696

Plain and simple, escrow-ed, I bet 1 bitcoin that PatrickHarnett does not pay back all investors in this program by the end of this year. 

think he will? 

"I trust Starfish" ?

let's see how much you trust him in terms of BTC bet on him paying back everyone in full with 3+ months to do it.

So if we bet either way you get a commission on it, no thanks.

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