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Author Topic: How Open Source Projects Survive Poisonous People  (Read 24521 times)
CIYAM
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February 01, 2012, 12:34:49 AM
 #101

One of the core Bitcoin values is "you don't need to trust an organization ... just trust the code (which is open for review).

Hmm... I think most people would have more chance of being able to set up a secure Linux box than to read C++.

Smiley

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

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February 01, 2012, 12:36:03 AM
 #102

I'm enjoying this video.  I still don't which BIP I like though Sad That serialized script in the script for BIP 16 makes me sad.

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February 01, 2012, 12:36:54 AM
 #103

Whoa! Folks, what is happening here?

I'm following the Bitcoin saga now for quite some time and with the personal wars that broke out recently it makes me sad to have wasted most of my limited spare-time seeing this ingenious idea going to fail due to common human nature.

Within only half a year there were enough occasions to get distracted from the Bitcoin movement (lost considerable stakes when BTC tanked from 25 to 1US$, seen allinvain loosing >0.5M US$, seen my credentials openly circulating after MtGox hack, followed mybitcoin, Bruce, and much more), but believing in the potential of Bitcoin to positively change the world with an immanent leverage more than Linux did, made me (and majority of us) keep hanging on.

Sadly, with what is currently going on hits the rock bottom. What some of you are committing here is a direct and aggressive form of public which-hunt against Luke-Jr. I don't know (and it does not matter) if Luke is some 'poisonous' guy or not, but all of us should keep at least some remaining portion of decency.

I am contributing to different open source projects, but so far I've never seen any community slashing down on active members like it is done here. Posting captures of presumably private IRC sessions? Mixing personal with professional issues? Posting private photos of members to ridicule them? Come on, that's not the representation Bitcoin deserves. How do you expect this exposed on the official forum will attract potentially new members?

I am not advocating for Luke in any manner, I just don't know him other that being a core developer. What I for sure know is that personal fight should be carried out personally.



2 cents from a nobody. I'm also 99%, btw.

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February 01, 2012, 12:43:45 AM
 #104

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At this point, for a project like bitcoin to succeed, having the right spokesperson
for the project is by far much more important than making the right (assuming
there's such a thing) technical decision.

And when it comes to that, given the amazing display of social graces he's provided
us with so far, bitcoin would simply be much better off without luke.

This just somehow proves more that you are against him based on personal issues... While you may think this is ok, not everyone agrees with you.

Just looking at this very topic, people don't even seem to read Luke's replies, which don't look very disgracefull or arrogant, but that doesn't seem to matter anymore... A sad day for opensource community...

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February 01, 2012, 01:02:15 AM
 #105


This is a great! An old fashion BLOOD BATH !!!

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February 01, 2012, 01:03:36 AM
 #106

“If you didn’t run code written by assholes, your machine wouldn’t boot”
 - http://rusty.ozlabs.org/?p=196

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February 01, 2012, 01:11:03 AM
 #107

I'll be blunt:  I think Luke Dashjr fits the definition of a poisonous person,
I don't disagree with the above statement, but I want to offer an alternate explanation.

It is the project itself that is poisonous.

It wasn't cooked long enough before it was put in a can. While in the can the bacteria producing botulism toxin grew on it. Now whoever eats a bigger portion of it develops various symptoms of neurotoxicity. Luke-Jr is the first to show acute symptoms because he ate a helping large in relation to his body mass.

Next time please cook your food projects more thoroughly before canning.

Edit: This food in this can could still be saved, but it will require a gamma-radiation sterilization and one-more cooking before it is safe to eat.

In other words: refactor the code base before changing the protocol.

Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
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February 01, 2012, 01:22:46 AM
 #108

I am contributing to different open source projects, but so far I've never seen any community slashing down on active members like it is done here.

Bitcoin is money. Money corrupts.  Lips sealed

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February 01, 2012, 02:19:18 AM
 #109

Who is responsible for the QT frontend?

bitcoin has never crashed so many times as it is doing so now.


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The probability that you too are a criminal, is very high.
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February 01, 2012, 02:37:40 AM
 #110

Might as well express my opinion as well. I'm a nobody, not familiar with technicalities (Thanks, Amir, btw, nice intro for the lay person), nor a big miner, so not like I carry any vote or weight. But, I think there are a lot of people in the silent majority like me.

I have observed Gavin and others for many months. I have always thought of Gavin as reasonable, polite, devoted, sane ("security first") and competent - in short, a great choice for the leader of this project.

Regarding leadership of the project, I can't say nearly anything similar for some of the detractors - if I had to choose between him and one of them, I would undoubtedly choose him.  (Not talking about particular technicalities here.) If one person has to go, it shouldn't be Gavin.

I realize it's been much harder and time-consuming for Gavin than it was for Satoshi. As Gavin said in a thread, Satoshi  could just commit, and the world would unquestionably follow.

Also, as he said, these debates have lasted 'forever', and every time they are nearly done, someone comes and starts them all over again. And, that these debates are really about the choice of color of the lock in the bikeshed, not about the mechanics of the chain reaction in the nuclear power plant.

Just saying Gavin has my support. I trust that he will come better off from this, and also sincerely hope that with his leadership skills, he will also be able to avoid future conflicts.


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February 01, 2012, 02:59:49 AM
 #111

Might as well express my opinion as well. I'm a nobody, not familiar with technicalities (Thanks, Amir, btw, nice intro for the lay person), nor a big miner, so not like I carry any vote or weight. But, I think there are a lot of people in the silent majority like me.

I have observed Gavin and others for many months. I have always thought of Gavin as reasonable, polite, devoted, sane ("security first") and competent - in short, a great choice for the leader of this project.

Regarding leadership of the project, I can't say nearly anything similar for some of the detractors - if I had to choose between him and one of them, I would undoubtedly choose him.  (Not talking about particular technicalities here.) If one person has to go, it shouldn't be Gavin.

I realize it's been much harder and time-consuming for Gavin than it was for Satoshi. As Gavin said in a thread, Satoshi  could just commit, and the world would unquestionably follow.

Also, as he said, these debates have lasted 'forever', and every time they are nearly done, someone comes and starts them all over again. And, that these debates are really about the choice of color of the lock in the bikeshed, not about the mechanics of the chain reaction in the nuclear power plant.

Just saying Gavin has my support. I trust that he will come better off from this, and also sincerely hope that with his leadership skills, he will also be able to avoid future conflicts.

As another silent observer, I agree with everything you said. Gavin has my full support (however little weight that carries).

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February 01, 2012, 03:08:43 AM
 #112

What happened to the old Luke-jr? I commend him for his new found level headedness and willing discourse which was shown a few pages back.
If that is the pattern for the future, so much the better. Hopefully its not just a little temporary ass-kissing to keep his head above water Wink

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February 01, 2012, 04:07:09 AM
 #113


I'll be blunt:  I think Luke Dashjr fits the definition of a poisonous person, and I think Bitcoin would be better without him. At the very least, we wouldn't be creating two BIPs for every technical issue, one for Luke and one for the rest of us (see BIP 16/17, and now we have BIP 20/21, too).


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You Need to Avoid Paralysis
-OCD people can derail forward progress
     - perfectionists
     - people obsessed with process
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February 01, 2012, 04:16:47 AM
 #114

As another non-contributor, I've watched the forums here since the first slashdotting way, way, way back. Gavin's integrity, openness and the amount of effort he has poured into Bitcoin has been massive. Gavin's conduct has always been about seeing Bitcoin become more successful, and safer. I remember when encrypted wallets got rolled out, BIG end user change. It took forever and affected everyone, Gavin rolled out the change when he was satisfied it was safe. This is a man I can trust with my wallet, so I trust his judgment with changes to the Bitcoin protocol. I watched the video also. I support Gavin, for what it's worth.

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February 01, 2012, 04:51:28 AM
 #115

As another non-contributor, I've watched the forums here since the first slashdotting way, way, way back. Gavin's integrity, openness and the amount of effort he has poured into Bitcoin has been massive. Gavin's conduct has always been about seeing Bitcoin become more successful, and safer. I remember when encrypted wallets got rolled out, BIG end user change. It took forever and affected everyone, Gavin rolled out the change when he was satisfied it was safe. This is a man I can trust with my wallet, so I trust his judgment with changes to the Bitcoin protocol. I watched the video also. I support Gavin, for what it's worth.

GAVIN FTW!!!!!!!!!!

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February 01, 2012, 05:22:59 AM
 #116

subscribe. not enough information to compute.
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February 01, 2012, 05:44:22 AM
 #117

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i'm not sure you can disentangle the technical from the personal issues here despite what we'd like to think.  integrity does play a role.

this is supposed to be won by the best solution, not the best person. Just sayin.

I second that!

Bitcoins are earned, not traded! If you plan on hoarding BTC, you're on my target list. (And yes, it is possible to swim in BTC.)

Don't give me that Bull... I'm one of those honey eating Bears that the bees hope to never meet again... Viva la BTC!!!
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February 01, 2012, 05:47:28 AM
 #118


i would never put my support behind even THE most brilliant if i never met them and had a chance to evaluate their integrity.


Are you saying then that you've met Satoshi Nakamoto?

Bitcoins are earned, not traded! If you plan on hoarding BTC, you're on my target list. (And yes, it is possible to swim in BTC.)

Don't give me that Bull... I'm one of those honey eating Bears that the bees hope to never meet again... Viva la BTC!!!
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February 01, 2012, 05:50:20 AM
 #119

Are you saying then that you've met Satoshi Nakamoto?

ROFL!!!!! This is what I read during my 2nd minute I woke up... You just made my day!

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February 01, 2012, 06:08:15 AM
 #120

Nice video.

I had meetings that never ended in voting, ever. We stood up to 5-6 AM until a consensus was reached. Exhausting it was, so tempting to decide issues by votes. But we always stood still.

In Bitcoin, there's is a mix about discussion and vote. The changes are ultimately decided on vote, barely simple hash majority (with momentum), "always winners and losers", and that is by design.

The Bitcoin's solution against attackers or distrusted protocol changes, genjix's cathartic progress proposal, this video. Makes me remember this great history:

End of Cypherpunks -- A List Goes Down In Flames
http://www.nettime.org/Lists-Archives/nettime-l-9702/msg00034.html


You guys have really come up with somethin'
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