You work your butt off, and a rich dude does nothing and gets rich - how?

[Ozziecoin]

Fiat currency is the greatest Ponzi scheme in all of history.

I would disagree. Fiat us generally backed by the economy of the country that printed the fiat.

Are you f*#king kidding me? You are joking right? If not, that is a hilarious statement...you ought to become a comedian.

If the currency and interest rate are regulated by market, then the statement "Fiat is generally backed by the economy(production and service) of the country" assessment is mostly correct.

As money is being created out of thin air, effectively it is backed by nothing.

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[AdamSmith]

You cannot generally back fiat...it is either backed or not. As well, by the very classification of FIAT means that it is back by nothing but the "Faith and Credit of the Govt"
Also, currency and interest rate are NOT regulated by the market...it is determined by the Federal reserve, specifically the FOMC. The two of you are spewing bullshit!!
Faith and Credit doesn't mean jack shit either as the credit is just monetized debt. Quit playing games, man.

As money is being created out of thin air, effectively it is backed by nothing.

You can buy just about any goods and services using fiat. So it is backed by something.

[twiifm]

Fiat currency is the greatest Ponzi scheme in all of history.

I would disagree. Fiat us generally backed by the economy of the country that printed the fiat.

Are you f*#king kidding me? You are joking right? If not, that is a hilarious statement...you ought to become a comedian.

If the currency and interest rate are regulated by market, then the statement "Fiat is generally backed by the economy(production and service) of the country" assessment is mostly correct.

As money is being created out of thin air, effectively it is backed by nothing.

You don't know what backed means.   Whats Ozziecoin backed by?

[Ozziecoin]

You cannot generally back fiat...it is either backed or not. As well, by the very classification of FIAT means that it is back by nothing but the "Faith and Credit of the Govt"
Also, currency and interest rate are NOT regulated by the market...it is determined by the Federal reserve, specifically the FOMC. The two of you are spewing bullshit!!
Faith and Credit doesn't mean jack shit either as the credit is just monetized debt. Quit playing games, man.

As money is being created out of thin air, effectively it is backed by nothing.

You can buy just about any goods and services using fiat. So it is backed by something.

See GFC, wealth/money can be instantly destroyed.

[rottentomatoes]

Ive had this feeling forever. How to scape? 

[Ozziecoin]

Ive had this feeling forever. How to scape? 

Avoid debt. We need positive money in our financial system, as in non-debt based money. Either the government provides it (see Japan post 1990) or choose a digital currency to do the job. Btc is ok but has no privacy. Darkcoin is interesting. Gold is relevant to barter economies which I don't think we are going to revert to.

[Ozziecoin]

I love these quotes from this link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional_reserve_banking:

The proceeds of most bank loans are not, however, in the form of currency (central bank money). In the United States, the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago has stated:
Of course, they [commercial banks] do not really make loans out of the money they receive as deposits. If they did this, they would be acting just like financial intermediaries and no additional money would be created. What they do when they make loans is to accept promissory notes in exchange for credits they make to the borrowers' deposit accounts. Loans (assets) and deposits (liabilities) both rise....[21]

The American Bankers Association has also stated that most bank loans are made not by doling out paper currency and coin, but instead by creating or increasing deposit liabilities owed by the bank:
Typically, bank loans are made to existing customers, or the proceeds of a loan are used to open an account; thus, most bank loans increase total deposits. In the typical credit situation, two balance sheet items --loans and deposits -- are simultaneously increased.[22]

[novacn]

AFAIK many rich dudes also work their butt off, even busier than most of us.

[TaunSew]

AFAIK many rich dudes also work their butt off, even busier than most of us.

Only by choice.  Most rich people 'work' through a division of labour, meaning all the slog and the actual real work is passed down the hierarchy to the thousands or millions of employees who are only paid 'competitive salaries' (meaning subsistence wages or barely middle class).

The hardest thing in this world is becoming a credentialed professional and yet most professionals in this world are only middle class in income and hold a lot of responsibility, have to be accountable and run the risk of being terminated at any moments' notice.

If 'many rich dudes also work their butt off', is the case then maybe they should just quit that hard work and become a Doctor, an Accountant or one of those lazy lawyers?  Heck just quit and do something like fix piping underneath houses for 12 hours a day, so easy!

[DrG]

Well those whose objectives are to be become wealthy and nothing more (not create a company to be proud of, not create a product to change the world) often look for work that bypasses not hurdles and attempts to exploit some resource (human, manmade or natural).  Those people's goal is strictly money - and they don't care how they get it.  Some may indeed "work" hard, but they may not actually be doing "work" in the sense of creating something purposeful.

Most burglars in a large city "work" - they just don't accomplish anything.

[Ltsknnr]

Fiat currency is the greatest Ponzi scheme in all of history.

I would disagree. Fiat us generally backed by the economy of the country that printed the fiat.

Are you f*#king kidding me? You are joking right? If not, that is a hilarious statement...you ought to become a comedian.

If the currency and interest rate are regulated by market, then the statement "Fiat is generally backed by the economy(production and service) of the country" assessment is mostly correct.

As money is being created out of thin air, effectively it is backed by nothing.

Exactly.

Take the Federal Reserve for example: US govt wants to inject cash into economy, so it goes to FR sells some bonds, and FR "prints" a billion dollars. That billion dollars gets deposited into banks (electronically of course- none of the currency actually exists), the banks then (thanks to fractional reserve) create 9 billion dollars via voodoo banking magic. Now there is $10B additional currency in the system that can then be used to provide loans, credit etc...which is what leads to bubbles, and credit crises, and then when someone decides to call the loans due, the house of cards comes tumbling down (unless the government steps in again with another round of QE).  Currency is backed by nothing more than the debt that was used to create it. That debt is backed by every living, breathing American that is born, as there is the understanding that you grow up, you get a job, you pay 35% of your earnings back to the government through taxes (which barely covers the interest that's due) and the whole cycle repeats itself.

The Fed continues to make money, and the families that control the banking industry continue to get richer while the middle class is further destroyed.

This is why crypto is so disruptive, it challenges the status quo of people who have literally controlled EVERYTHING for generations.

[RodeoX]

Rich dude: I engage with the government and lobby for changes that help me.
Poor dude: I complain to other internet users about how shitty the government is.

Rich dude: I keep complete control over my money and make it work for me.
Poor dude: I got a payday loan to buy the newest Sony TV.

Rich dude: I manage a diverse and balanced portfolio to maintain my wealth.
Poor dude: I invest in lotto tickets and own many beanie babies.

Rich dude: I follow economic trends and study any relevant developments.
Poor dude: I heard on infowars that secret societies can read your mind.

[hodap]

Rich dude: I engage with the government and lobby for changes that help me.
Poor dude: I complain to other internet users about how shitty the government is.

Rich dude: I keep complete control over my money and make it work for me.
Poor dude: I got a payday loan to buy the newest Sony TV.

Rich dude: I manage a diverse and balanced portfolio to maintain my wealth.
Poor dude: I invest in lotto tickets and own many beanie babies.

Rich dude: I follow economic trends and study any relevant developments.
Poor dude: I heard on infowars that secret societies can read your mind.

Nice one.

Rich dude study the game and play along while the poor dude complain injustice rather than play along.

[Ozziecoin]

Fiat currency is the greatest Ponzi scheme in all of history.

I would disagree. Fiat us generally backed by the economy of the country that printed the fiat.

Are you f*#king kidding me? You are joking right? If not, that is a hilarious statement...you ought to become a comedian.

If the currency and interest rate are regulated by market, then the statement "Fiat is generally backed by the economy(production and service) of the country" assessment is mostly correct.

As money is being created out of thin air, effectively it is backed by nothing.

Exactly.

Take the Federal Reserve for example: US govt wants to inject cash into economy, so it goes to FR sells some bonds, and FR "prints" a billion dollars. That billion dollars gets deposited into banks (electronically of course- none of the currency actually exists), the banks then (thanks to fractional reserve) create 9 billion dollars via voodoo banking magic. Now there is $10B additional currency in the system that can then be used to provide loans, credit etc...which is what leads to bubbles, and credit crises, and then when someone decides to call the loans due, the house of cards comes tumbling down (unless the government steps in again with another round of QE).  Currency is backed by nothing more than the debt that was used to create it. That debt is backed by every living, breathing American that is born, as there is the understanding that you grow up, you get a job, you pay 35% of your earnings back to the government through taxes (which barely covers the interest that's due) and the whole cycle repeats itself.

The Fed continues to make money, and the families that control the banking industry continue to get richer while the middle class is further destroyed.

This is why crypto is so disruptive, it challenges the status quo of people who have literally controlled EVERYTHING for generations.

Actually, the banks literally create money out of nothing. They literally create money on the spot when loans are provided. They don't even need to borrow money from the Fed Reserve to do this.

[Ozziecoin]

See what the fat cats of Australia own:

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2014/08/aussie-politicians-300m-property-portfolio/

[TaunSew]

Rich dude: I engage with the government and lobby for changes that help me.
Poor dude: I complain to other internet users about how shitty the government is.

Rich dude: I keep complete control over my money and make it work for me.
Poor dude: I got a payday loan to buy the newest Sony TV.

Rich dude: I manage a diverse and balanced portfolio to maintain my wealth.
Poor dude: I invest in lotto tickets and own many beanie babies.

Rich dude: I follow economic trends and study any relevant developments.
Poor dude: I heard on infowars that secret societies can read your mind.

Nice one.

Rich dude study the game and play along while the poor dude complain injustice rather than play along.

No it's terrible rhetoric.  You are taking two extreme opposites while ignoring the mainstream middle.  You can't have anyone relate to the poor person as the average person does not consider the lottery to be an investment (actually a gamble) and not many people own beanie babies.  That must be one dumb rich person because that's called a false dichotomy, a logical fallacy.

There's many people in the middle who are suffering due to the decisions of the rich, such as clawing back on defined pensions for most Americans or the funds who are gambling away people's pensions.


Many people are playing by the "rules" of society, as in working hard through college, hard in their careers, having 2 to 4 kids to ensure the reproduction of the workforce, saving and investing for a later retirement.

How has society rewarded these people?  Sub prime made many middle class people lose their homes and pensions, while the rich people got a bail out.  Recent college graduates are being forced to work jobs that were a decade ago reserved for those who flunked highschool.  While the rich have seen no change in their lifestyle in comparison.



Becoming an educated professional is one of the hardest things to do in this world - a Doctor and a Lawyer is someone who I can respect.   Whereas many rich people got to where they are through familial inheritance or networking through relatives or getting lucky on investments (or even engaging in fraud such as Mark Karpeles who lives in one of the most expensive condominium buildings in Tokyo).

[Cluster2k]

Some poor people are poor by choice.  Yes, that is a troll kind of thing to say but it's true.  A friend works nights full time.  He earns a decent wage and last week told me "I just filed my taxes, I made $40k after tax yet I don't see a single cent in my account.  Where the fuck did it all go!?"  He makes poor spending choices.  He buys gadgets he doesn't need that will end up being shelved after a few weeks and never used again.  He goes to the cinema and buys $20 popcorn and Coke without realising what a terrible decision that is.  $20 for maybe 50c in product. 

Stop buying things you don't need and perhaps you'll find your life is better with less stress, less work, and more true satisfaction.

[Ozziecoin]

Some poor people are poor by choice.  Yes, that is a troll kind of thing to say but it's true.  A friend works nights full time.  He earns a decent wage and last week told me "I just filed my taxes, I made $40k after tax yet I don't see a single cent in my account.  Where the fuck did it all go!?"  He makes poor spending choices.  He buys gadgets he doesn't need that will end up being shelved after a few weeks and never used again.  He goes to the cinema and buys $20 popcorn and Coke without realising what a terrible decision that is.  $20 for maybe 50c in product. 

Stop buying things you don't need and perhaps you'll find your life is better with less stress, less work, and more true satisfaction.

On the scale of important issues in life, this ranks below zero. Sorry.

Please note: your financial system is regressively distributing wealth by rewarding asset holders over non-asset holders. It doesn't matter who spends how much on what when your entire financial system is regressive.

[RodeoX]

No it's terrible rhetoric.  You are taking two extreme opposites while ignoring the mainstream middle.  ...

I do understand your position, and I totally agree that many financial schemes have become rigged or corrupted. The banks job is to get you playing their games. Once in debt you are captured and the milking begins. The solution is to not play the game.

It's not because someone is poor. Sadly, kids do not learn anything about money in school anymore. They have no clue about what a good contract looks like, or even that they don't need loans or a 401k.

The examples I posted were for comedic effect. But they do have some truth to them. All the "rich dude" lines are things anyone (rich or poor) could do. All the "poor dude" things are examples I see people actually doing.

The fact is rich people did not get rich doing nothing. They did a lot of rational things.

[Ozziecoin]

No it's terrible rhetoric.  You are taking two extreme opposites while ignoring the mainstream middle.  ...

I do understand your position, and I totally agree that many financial schemes have become rigged or corrupted. The banks job is to get you playing their games. Once in debt you are captured and the milking begins. The solution is to not play the game.

It's not because someone is poor. Sadly, kids do not learn anything about money in school anymore. They have no clue about what a good contract looks like, or even that they don't need loans or a 401k.

The examples I posted were for comedic effect. But they do have some truth to them. All the "rich dude" lines are things anyone (rich or poor) could do. All the "poor dude" things are examples I see people actually doing.

The fact is rich people did not get rich doing nothing. They did a lot of rational things.

haha. Like being born pre 1970 and buying property. The point is that today's generation don't have those same opportunities.