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Author Topic: Monero (XMR) Speculation thread  (Read 50150 times)
wachtwoord
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August 17, 2014, 08:19:39 PM
 #721

From what I've read, Zerocash will Only allow anonymous transactions, there will be no regular sending.

There is also trust involved in setting up Zerocash, you have to trust that the devs won't keep the key that will allow them to doublespend anytime they want, without anyone knowing.

Those two points make Zerocash a No-No for me. It makes no sense to use a coin that involves trust , that's why Satoshi made Bitcoin in the first place. Bitcoin may have it's 51% mining issue, but there are measures in place to stop such a threat if it happens, but Zerocash's trust issue is far scarier, the devs would be able to doublespend at any time whether they have 50% 1%, or 0% of hash power, and you will Never know that they have done so.

But Monero is not truly anonymous, merely pseudo-anonymous. Doesn't that bother you?
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Joshuar
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August 17, 2014, 08:21:38 PM
 #722

From what I've read, Zerocash will Only allow anonymous transactions, there will be no regular sending.

There is also trust involved in setting up Zerocash, you have to trust that the devs won't keep the key that will allow them to doublespend anytime they want, without anyone knowing.

Those two points make Zerocash a No-No for me. It makes no sense to use a coin that involves trust , that's why Satoshi made Bitcoin in the first place. Bitcoin may have it's 51% mining issue, but there are measures in place to stop such a threat if it happens, but Zerocash's trust issue is far scarier, the devs would be able to doublespend at any time whether they have 50% 1%, or 0% of hash power, and you will Never know that they have done so.

But Monero is not truly anonymous, merely pseudo-anonymous. Doesn't that bother you?

Are you a bought account, trolling? First off, there's no such thing as 100% anonymity(it doesn't exist since you'd have to be unaware of everything aka everything would be unknown), zerocash is also "pseudo-anonymous". With Monero, it's impossible to tie coins to a user, so it the best "anonymous" solution there is with that it also allows regular sending.

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fluffypony
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August 17, 2014, 09:06:55 PM
 #723

But Monero is not truly anonymous, merely pseudo-anonymous. Doesn't that bother you?

Bitcoin is pseudonymous. Monero is on a whole different level. Reducing the anonymity set requires you to forcibly (rubberhose cryptanalysis or some sort of extremely exotic brute force attack) reveal one or both of the user's public keys, and THEN to use some sort of exotic attack to weed out and isolate the true signatures in the ring groups of every output the user has ever created. It is practically improbable, barring some extremely powerful and extremely exotic attack on the cryptographic primitives used in Monero.

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August 17, 2014, 09:11:39 PM
 #724

From what I've read, Zerocash will Only allow anonymous transactions, there will be no regular sending.

There is also trust involved in setting up Zerocash, you have to trust that the devs won't keep the key that will allow them to doublespend anytime they want, without anyone knowing.

Those two points make Zerocash a No-No for me. It makes no sense to use a coin that involves trust , that's why Satoshi made Bitcoin in the first place. Bitcoin may have it's 51% mining issue, but there are measures in place to stop such a threat if it happens, but Zerocash's trust issue is far scarier, the devs would be able to doublespend at any time whether they have 50% 1%, or 0% of hash power, and you will Never know that they have done so.

But Monero is not truly anonymous, merely pseudo-anonymous. Doesn't that bother you?

How the fuck is this legendarys' posts in any way Monero speculation? And for what it's worth, he's clearly picking a fight. Another goddamn hero.
Brilliantrocket
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August 17, 2014, 09:12:54 PM
 #725

Bitcoin trolls are certainly the most arrogant. Buddy, you're delusional if you think Bitcoin will be the only successful cryptocurrency.
nakaone
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August 17, 2014, 09:30:26 PM
 #726

From what I've read, Zerocash will Only allow anonymous transactions, there will be no regular sending.

There is also trust involved in setting up Zerocash, you have to trust that the devs won't keep the key that will allow them to doublespend anytime they want, without anyone knowing.

Those two points make Zerocash a No-No for me. It makes no sense to use a coin that involves trust , that's why Satoshi made Bitcoin in the first place. Bitcoin may have it's 51% mining issue, but there are measures in place to stop such a threat if it happens, but Zerocash's trust issue is far scarier, the devs would be able to doublespend at any time whether they have 50% 1%, or 0% of hash power, and you will Never know that they have done so.

But Monero is not truly anonymous, merely pseudo-anonymous. Doesn't that bother you?

How the fuck is this legendarys' posts in any way Monero speculation? And for what it's worth, he's clearly picking a fight. Another goddamn hero.


it would be great if he could elaborate


this issue is sensitive and I think the only good argument against monero becoming the number one privacy coin is that there are (fundamental) flaws.

regarding zerocash - when the utility of zerocashs privacy outweights moneros network effect at the point of implementation it will succeed - easy game. using a bitcoin blockchains timestamp for destribution is actually the most elegant solution for achieving this. fluffy already pointed out the problems with zerocash
wachtwoord
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August 17, 2014, 09:33:59 PM
 #727

From what I've read, Zerocash will Only allow anonymous transactions, there will be no regular sending.

There is also trust involved in setting up Zerocash, you have to trust that the devs won't keep the key that will allow them to doublespend anytime they want, without anyone knowing.

Those two points make Zerocash a No-No for me. It makes no sense to use a coin that involves trust , that's why Satoshi made Bitcoin in the first place. Bitcoin may have it's 51% mining issue, but there are measures in place to stop such a threat if it happens, but Zerocash's trust issue is far scarier, the devs would be able to doublespend at any time whether they have 50% 1%, or 0% of hash power, and you will Never know that they have done so.

But Monero is not truly anonymous, merely pseudo-anonymous. Doesn't that bother you?

How the fuck is this legendarys' posts in any way Monero speculation? And for what it's worth, he's clearly picking a fight. Another goddamn hero.


I'm not picking a fight. In fact, Monero is the only altcoin I have any stake in at all at the moment. I sold all my peercoin and litecoin months ago at the peak (whcih was mostly luck). I'm merely trying to poke people so I can find out whether there are more and better arguments now for Monero to "win". If people would convince me better I might increase my stake in Monero (current prices while low are still substantially higher than when i bought the Monero I currently own).

Don't pay too much attention to the user roles on this forum. The names are much like the titles used in business mostly self-glorifying. Legendary simply means my activity is above a certain number (the same goes for hero members). If anything, that shows I have too much time on my hands.
DieJohnny
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August 17, 2014, 09:44:31 PM
 #728

 I sold my Monero a few weeks ago. Crypto currency climate is incredibly dark and full of MLM scams, trust is so low I cannot see any real momentum building in ANY alt currency. I see only the constant wave of pump and dump scams until the public becomes so jaded that nobody invests in alts at all.

These are the years where we the masses bear the costs of decentralized, open source software development. We have no idea who to trust. We guess, or we collude but ultimately we are getting screwed or screwing someone over.


Those who hold and those who are without property have ever formed distinct interests in society
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August 17, 2014, 09:47:50 PM
 #729

Don't pay too much attention to the user roles on this forum. The names are much like the titles used in business mostly self-glorifying. Legendary simply means my activity is above a certain number (the same goes for hero members). If anything, that shows I have too much time on my hands.

So you're saying you're not the CEO of Bitcoin?

Sad

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August 17, 2014, 09:47:56 PM
 #730

True this needs to be solved.
Still, Monero is just a crude hack compared to zerocash.
You are assuming that it can be solved. I am skeptical.

Have you read the rest of the Zerocash paper and process? The crypto is seriously cutting edge. I'm educated quite highly in related areas and I can only understand at a higher abstraction level what they are doing. Zero-knowledge proof is very impressive. I'm sure they'll be able to leverage something similar to solve this issue.


I'm not picking a fight. In fact, Monero is the only altcoin I have any stake in at all at the moment. I sold all my peercoin and litecoin months ago at the peak (whcih was mostly luck). I'm merely trying to poke people so I can find out whether there are more and better arguments now for Monero to "win". If people would convince me better I might increase my stake in Monero (current prices while low are still substantially higher than when i bought the Monero I currently own).

I dunno I have some training in this area as well and see things somewhat oppositely to you. If someone wanted to trust their real money to something I made in grad school I would raise my eyebrow pretty highly. I have no doubt that the work that Matt Green et al. are doing is academically intriguing but the fact that it is cutting edge and unvalidated by the academic cryptography community is not really a strength. Ring signatures  are a well-validated cryptographic approach with a strong literature base supporting them as an elegant and reasonably secure approach to privacy.
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August 18, 2014, 12:05:21 AM
 #731

It's called "grilling". And there are other ways you can help out, without involving that particular activity.
MaleVoiceJohn
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August 18, 2014, 12:09:29 AM
 #732

Its already from #59 to number #43 and it will continue to rise since monerochain will update more recent blocks. It will be back to where it was when monerochain.org syncs...
Let's just sit and wait, ok? You can forecast any place in top, but only time will show were you right or wrong. And if there will be no changes or no growing, i will be able to say that you are scam.

You're a new level of stupid.

They are not guessing the marketcap of Monero, that is already known, they are wondering how long until Monerochain.info is fully updated and that data is fed into coinmarketcap.
You call me a stupid but the facts show us another things. First of all, after 7 hours of sitting and waiting the XMR becomes cheaper (-8.07 %  whine 7 hours ago it was -5%).

But you said that you need a day before XMR will be hight as clouds in the toplist? Ok, i'm waiting.
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August 18, 2014, 12:30:34 AM
 #733

As traders and trodlers know, sometimes the handling of Monero seems to be a bit special for exchanges and users. Forgotten payment-id, blockchain not syncronized etc. are every-day-events, as I know, because most of my own trading is with Moneros.

Then you need support and find that there are large differences in the quality of support. This has motivated me to open a thread "quality comparison of the exchanges' support":

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=743446.0

I want to invite all of you to report your experiences with the support of whatever exchange you are using, as a helpful support for other users and - hopefully - inspiration for the exchanges to improve their support.
kbm
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August 18, 2014, 12:35:19 AM
 #734

Its already from #59 to number #43 and it will continue to rise since monerochain will update more recent blocks. It will be back to where it was when monerochain.org syncs...
Let's just sit and wait, ok? You can forecast any place in top, but only time will show were you right or wrong. And if there will be no changes or no growing, i will be able to say that you are scam.

You're a new level of stupid.

They are not guessing the marketcap of Monero, that is already known, they are wondering how long until Monerochain.info is fully updated and that data is fed into coinmarketcap.
You call me a stupid but the facts show us another things. First of all, after 7 hours of sitting and waiting the XMR becomes cheaper (-8.07 %  whine 7 hours ago it was -5%).

But you said that you need a day before XMR will be hight as clouds in the toplist? Ok, i'm waiting.

Are you really trying to insult someone who has nothing to do with coinmarketcap.com .. and using obviously incorrect data to say that the market cap is in actuality based on 351,544 coins .. when in reality there's 2.843 million coins in existence? Are you autistic?

The market cap of Monero right now is 2,843,000 * .0029701 = 8444 BTC = $4,225,797 USD. It is approximately #13 when compared to the list at coinmarketcap. This is ~ 3-4 notches higher than bytecoin. #13 out of 454 currencies they serve is 'pretty high in the clouds'. Maybe you see it up there Wink ?

Thanks Smiley
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August 18, 2014, 12:47:57 AM
 #735

From what I've read, Zerocash will Only allow anonymous transactions, there will be no regular sending.

There is also trust involved in setting up Zerocash, you have to trust that the devs won't keep the key that will allow them to doublespend anytime they want, without anyone knowing.

Those two points make Zerocash a No-No for me. It makes no sense to use a coin that involves trust , that's why Satoshi made Bitcoin in the first place. Bitcoin may have it's 51% mining issue, but there are measures in place to stop such a threat if it happens, but Zerocash's trust issue is far scarier, the devs would be able to doublespend at any time whether they have 50% 1%, or 0% of hash power, and you will Never know that they have done so.

But Monero is not truly anonymous, merely pseudo-anonymous. Doesn't that bother you?

How the fuck is this legendarys' posts in any way Monero speculation? And for what it's worth, he's clearly picking a fight. Another goddamn hero.


I'm not picking a fight. In fact, Monero is the only altcoin I have any stake in at all at the moment. I sold all my peercoin and litecoin months ago at the peak (whcih was mostly luck). I'm merely trying to poke people so I can find out whether there are more and better arguments now for Monero to "win". If people would convince me better I might increase my stake in Monero (current prices while low are still substantially higher than when i bought the Monero I currently own).

Don't pay too much attention to the user roles on this forum. The names are much like the titles used in business mostly self-glorifying. Legendary simply means my activity is above a certain number (the same goes for hero members). If anything, that shows I have too much time on my hands.

...Ok you should ask yourself a question, what are the Real needs to having a coin like Bitcoin and Monero around? Well the answer is clear, you don't have to rely on a central force to issue coins, you are as important as the next person, and in regards to Monero, you get the simplicity of a currency(no gimmicks attached) and the privacy of a fiat with all the added bonus of not having to rely on banks, or sending fees( like paypal), etc etc

The next question you should ask yourself is, Why choose coins like Bitcoin and Monero, over coins like NXT/Ethereum etc? That answer is also clear, the purpose of cryptocurrencies is just that, to be a currency, NXT and Ethereum are more like applications or companies in the case of Ethereum, not currencies. The dollar has one purpose, to be traded/kept as a unit of wealth. The only things a Currency truly needs is to have some anonymity/privacy and to have monetary value, both of which Bitcoin has, but which Monero has expanded upon since Bitcoin only offers psuedop-anonymity, while with Monero you can be completely anonymous(good for citizens who value privacy as well as private companies etc) and Monero also offers regular sending(good for public corporations and people that dont care about privacy)


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August 18, 2014, 04:51:36 AM
 #736

Zerocash is better than Monero at any rate.

in the sense that imaginary vapourware has an edge over a real working currency with actual value, yes.

it is especially good (zerocash) if you know the accumulator seed so that you can mint infinite currency, since its blinding protocol means no one will even know it happened until their coins skid to zero.  that will certainly make the name apt.

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day.  Give a man a Poisson distribution and he eats at random times independent of one another, at a constant known rate.
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August 18, 2014, 04:55:15 AM
 #737

I sold my Monero a few weeks ago.
please convey my heartfelt condolences to your family.

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day.  Give a man a Poisson distribution and he eats at random times independent of one another, at a constant known rate.
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August 18, 2014, 02:02:55 PM
 #738

too bad monerochain is not working, crazy days right now(would call it black monday), but i know what to do anyway.
watching de diff graph would just give me some more confidence  Grin

Hash rate and difficulty did not changed much in last 4 weeks time. Next price raise, will push difficulty to 1.5 billion in few days time.
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August 18, 2014, 02:05:23 PM
 #739

too bad monerochain is not working, crazy days right now(would call it black monday), but i know what to do anyway.
watching de diff graph would just give me some more confidence  Grin

Hash rate and difficulty did not changed much in last 4 weeks time. Next price raise, will push difficulty to 1.5 billion in few days time.

Unfortunately the BTC dumps are a killer right now
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August 18, 2014, 02:11:31 PM
 #740

BTC is again recovered. Of course you can throw in figures such as $200, $300, talk is cheap. But BTC is not going there. Last year same thing - the lowest bottom was seen long before the final capitulation.

If you check the situation of Monero at the exchange of your choice, there is not much to buy at these levels. Perhaps people are realizing that double hammering an unrelated coin to Bitcoin is not the road to riches.

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