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Author Topic: Monero (XMR) Speculation thread  (Read 49840 times)
nioc
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August 17, 2014, 06:47:33 PM
 #721

^^Why when we have Monero?

I haven't checked it closely but Brilliantrocket says zerocash isn't trustless and if so then again, why?
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Brilliantrocket
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August 17, 2014, 06:52:03 PM
 #722

^^Why when we have Monero?

I haven't checked it closely but Brilliantrocket says zerocash isn't trustless and if so then again, why?
Whoever sets it up must create a key. If they do not destroy this key, they can create unlimited coins, and no one else would know.
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August 17, 2014, 06:54:29 PM
 #723

^^Why when we have Monero?

I haven't checked it closely but Brilliantrocket says zerocash isn't trustless and if so then again, why?
Whoever sets it up must create a key. If they do not destroy this key, they can create unlimited coins, and no one else would know.

True this needs to be solved.

Still, Monero is just a crude hack compared to zerocash.
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August 17, 2014, 07:11:06 PM
 #724

True this needs to be solved.

Still, Monero is just a crude hack compared to zerocash.
You are assuming that it can be solved. I am skeptical.
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August 17, 2014, 07:15:29 PM
 #725

True this needs to be solved.

Still, Monero is just a crude hack compared to zerocash.
You are assuming that it can be solved. I am skeptical.

Have you read the rest of the Zerocash paper and process? The crypto is seriously cutting edge. I'm educated quite highly in related areas and I can only understand at a higher abstraction level what they are doing. Zero-knowledge proof is very impressive. I'm sure they'll be able to leverage something similar to solve this issue.
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August 17, 2014, 07:21:21 PM
 #726

It seems like XMR is like the Euro of cryptocurrency but now other cryptonight algo coins are proving to be competitive.  If XMR can't start getting better PR then other cryptonight algo coins will step up and possibly even surpass.. but again it all depends on actual business integration which equals more positive PRs.  the scope of news that I see for XMR is pretty narrow compared to what I see happening for BTC and LTC.

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August 17, 2014, 07:43:50 PM
 #727

Have you read the rest of the Zerocash paper and process? The crypto is seriously cutting edge. I'm educated quite highly in related areas and I can only understand at a higher abstraction level what they are doing. Zero-knowledge proof is very impressive. I'm sure they'll be able to leverage something similar to solve this issue.

This is the essence of the problem - it's TOO cutting edge. Even if you can get past the accumulator problem (which seems, at this stage, quite difficult if not improbable) you have an interesting issue: because the blockchain reveals absolutely nothing, a bug in the extremely new and untested cryptography could allow an attacker to create new coins out of the blue (which is not impossible, it already happened with Bitcoin and they had to rollback the chain pretty much). The difference is that with Zerocash you'd be completely unable to tell this had occurred because of the zero-knowledge blockchain.

To steal a phrase from that CryptoNote busting post the other day, Zerocash is a "one trick pony" (pun not intended) - it offers a single, terribly amazing, terribly dangerous, and terribly unproven feature. If, by some chance, Monero is the dominant private cryptocurrency by the time ZeroCash is ready, will that feature be compelling enough to make ordinary users switch? Or will they be just fine with the privacy Monero provides? Monero will have a hard enough time catching up to Bitcoin, and I honestly can't imagine Zerocash's single feature being sufficiently better than Monero's to provide tangible value to the general populace.

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August 17, 2014, 08:03:05 PM
 #728

From what I've read, Zerocash will Only allow anonymous transactions, there will be no regular sending.

There is also trust involved in setting up Zerocash, you have to trust that the devs won't keep the key that will allow them to doublespend anytime they want, without anyone knowing.

Those two points make Zerocash a No-No for me. It makes no sense to use a coin that involves trust , that's why Satoshi made Bitcoin in the first place. Bitcoin may have it's 51% mining issue, but there are measures in place to stop such a threat if it happens, but Zerocash's trust issue is far scarier, the devs would be able to doublespend at any time whether they have 50% 1%, or 0% of hash power, and you will Never know that they have done so.

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August 17, 2014, 08:19:39 PM
 #729

From what I've read, Zerocash will Only allow anonymous transactions, there will be no regular sending.

There is also trust involved in setting up Zerocash, you have to trust that the devs won't keep the key that will allow them to doublespend anytime they want, without anyone knowing.

Those two points make Zerocash a No-No for me. It makes no sense to use a coin that involves trust , that's why Satoshi made Bitcoin in the first place. Bitcoin may have it's 51% mining issue, but there are measures in place to stop such a threat if it happens, but Zerocash's trust issue is far scarier, the devs would be able to doublespend at any time whether they have 50% 1%, or 0% of hash power, and you will Never know that they have done so.

But Monero is not truly anonymous, merely pseudo-anonymous. Doesn't that bother you?
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August 17, 2014, 08:21:38 PM
 #730

From what I've read, Zerocash will Only allow anonymous transactions, there will be no regular sending.

There is also trust involved in setting up Zerocash, you have to trust that the devs won't keep the key that will allow them to doublespend anytime they want, without anyone knowing.

Those two points make Zerocash a No-No for me. It makes no sense to use a coin that involves trust , that's why Satoshi made Bitcoin in the first place. Bitcoin may have it's 51% mining issue, but there are measures in place to stop such a threat if it happens, but Zerocash's trust issue is far scarier, the devs would be able to doublespend at any time whether they have 50% 1%, or 0% of hash power, and you will Never know that they have done so.

But Monero is not truly anonymous, merely pseudo-anonymous. Doesn't that bother you?

Are you a bought account, trolling? First off, there's no such thing as 100% anonymity(it doesn't exist since you'd have to be unaware of everything aka everything would be unknown), zerocash is also "pseudo-anonymous". With Monero, it's impossible to tie coins to a user, so it the best "anonymous" solution there is with that it also allows regular sending.

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fluffypony
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August 17, 2014, 09:06:55 PM
 #731

But Monero is not truly anonymous, merely pseudo-anonymous. Doesn't that bother you?

Bitcoin is pseudonymous. Monero is on a whole different level. Reducing the anonymity set requires you to forcibly (rubberhose cryptanalysis or some sort of extremely exotic brute force attack) reveal one or both of the user's public keys, and THEN to use some sort of exotic attack to weed out and isolate the true signatures in the ring groups of every output the user has ever created. It is practically improbable, barring some extremely powerful and extremely exotic attack on the cryptographic primitives used in Monero.

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August 17, 2014, 09:11:39 PM
 #732

From what I've read, Zerocash will Only allow anonymous transactions, there will be no regular sending.

There is also trust involved in setting up Zerocash, you have to trust that the devs won't keep the key that will allow them to doublespend anytime they want, without anyone knowing.

Those two points make Zerocash a No-No for me. It makes no sense to use a coin that involves trust , that's why Satoshi made Bitcoin in the first place. Bitcoin may have it's 51% mining issue, but there are measures in place to stop such a threat if it happens, but Zerocash's trust issue is far scarier, the devs would be able to doublespend at any time whether they have 50% 1%, or 0% of hash power, and you will Never know that they have done so.

But Monero is not truly anonymous, merely pseudo-anonymous. Doesn't that bother you?

How the fuck is this legendarys' posts in any way Monero speculation? And for what it's worth, he's clearly picking a fight. Another goddamn hero.
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August 17, 2014, 09:12:54 PM
 #733

Bitcoin trolls are certainly the most arrogant. Buddy, you're delusional if you think Bitcoin will be the only successful cryptocurrency.
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August 17, 2014, 09:30:26 PM
 #734

From what I've read, Zerocash will Only allow anonymous transactions, there will be no regular sending.

There is also trust involved in setting up Zerocash, you have to trust that the devs won't keep the key that will allow them to doublespend anytime they want, without anyone knowing.

Those two points make Zerocash a No-No for me. It makes no sense to use a coin that involves trust , that's why Satoshi made Bitcoin in the first place. Bitcoin may have it's 51% mining issue, but there are measures in place to stop such a threat if it happens, but Zerocash's trust issue is far scarier, the devs would be able to doublespend at any time whether they have 50% 1%, or 0% of hash power, and you will Never know that they have done so.

But Monero is not truly anonymous, merely pseudo-anonymous. Doesn't that bother you?

How the fuck is this legendarys' posts in any way Monero speculation? And for what it's worth, he's clearly picking a fight. Another goddamn hero.


it would be great if he could elaborate


this issue is sensitive and I think the only good argument against monero becoming the number one privacy coin is that there are (fundamental) flaws.

regarding zerocash - when the utility of zerocashs privacy outweights moneros network effect at the point of implementation it will succeed - easy game. using a bitcoin blockchains timestamp for destribution is actually the most elegant solution for achieving this. fluffy already pointed out the problems with zerocash
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August 17, 2014, 09:33:59 PM
 #735

From what I've read, Zerocash will Only allow anonymous transactions, there will be no regular sending.

There is also trust involved in setting up Zerocash, you have to trust that the devs won't keep the key that will allow them to doublespend anytime they want, without anyone knowing.

Those two points make Zerocash a No-No for me. It makes no sense to use a coin that involves trust , that's why Satoshi made Bitcoin in the first place. Bitcoin may have it's 51% mining issue, but there are measures in place to stop such a threat if it happens, but Zerocash's trust issue is far scarier, the devs would be able to doublespend at any time whether they have 50% 1%, or 0% of hash power, and you will Never know that they have done so.

But Monero is not truly anonymous, merely pseudo-anonymous. Doesn't that bother you?

How the fuck is this legendarys' posts in any way Monero speculation? And for what it's worth, he's clearly picking a fight. Another goddamn hero.


I'm not picking a fight. In fact, Monero is the only altcoin I have any stake in at all at the moment. I sold all my peercoin and litecoin months ago at the peak (whcih was mostly luck). I'm merely trying to poke people so I can find out whether there are more and better arguments now for Monero to "win". If people would convince me better I might increase my stake in Monero (current prices while low are still substantially higher than when i bought the Monero I currently own).

Don't pay too much attention to the user roles on this forum. The names are much like the titles used in business mostly self-glorifying. Legendary simply means my activity is above a certain number (the same goes for hero members). If anything, that shows I have too much time on my hands.
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August 17, 2014, 09:44:31 PM
 #736

 I sold my Monero a few weeks ago. Crypto currency climate is incredibly dark and full of MLM scams, trust is so low I cannot see any real momentum building in ANY alt currency. I see only the constant wave of pump and dump scams until the public becomes so jaded that nobody invests in alts at all.

These are the years where we the masses bear the costs of decentralized, open source software development. We have no idea who to trust. We guess, or we collude but ultimately we are getting screwed or screwing someone over.


Those who hold and those who are without property have ever formed distinct interests in society
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August 17, 2014, 09:47:50 PM
 #737

Don't pay too much attention to the user roles on this forum. The names are much like the titles used in business mostly self-glorifying. Legendary simply means my activity is above a certain number (the same goes for hero members). If anything, that shows I have too much time on my hands.

So you're saying you're not the CEO of Bitcoin?

Sad

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August 17, 2014, 09:47:56 PM
 #738

True this needs to be solved.
Still, Monero is just a crude hack compared to zerocash.
You are assuming that it can be solved. I am skeptical.

Have you read the rest of the Zerocash paper and process? The crypto is seriously cutting edge. I'm educated quite highly in related areas and I can only understand at a higher abstraction level what they are doing. Zero-knowledge proof is very impressive. I'm sure they'll be able to leverage something similar to solve this issue.


I'm not picking a fight. In fact, Monero is the only altcoin I have any stake in at all at the moment. I sold all my peercoin and litecoin months ago at the peak (whcih was mostly luck). I'm merely trying to poke people so I can find out whether there are more and better arguments now for Monero to "win". If people would convince me better I might increase my stake in Monero (current prices while low are still substantially higher than when i bought the Monero I currently own).

I dunno I have some training in this area as well and see things somewhat oppositely to you. If someone wanted to trust their real money to something I made in grad school I would raise my eyebrow pretty highly. I have no doubt that the work that Matt Green et al. are doing is academically intriguing but the fact that it is cutting edge and unvalidated by the academic cryptography community is not really a strength. Ring signatures  are a well-validated cryptographic approach with a strong literature base supporting them as an elegant and reasonably secure approach to privacy.
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August 18, 2014, 12:05:21 AM
 #739

It's called "grilling". And there are other ways you can help out, without involving that particular activity.
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August 18, 2014, 12:09:29 AM
 #740

Its already from #59 to number #43 and it will continue to rise since monerochain will update more recent blocks. It will be back to where it was when monerochain.org syncs...
Let's just sit and wait, ok? You can forecast any place in top, but only time will show were you right or wrong. And if there will be no changes or no growing, i will be able to say that you are scam.

You're a new level of stupid.

They are not guessing the marketcap of Monero, that is already known, they are wondering how long until Monerochain.info is fully updated and that data is fed into coinmarketcap.
You call me a stupid but the facts show us another things. First of all, after 7 hours of sitting and waiting the XMR becomes cheaper (-8.07 %  whine 7 hours ago it was -5%).

But you said that you need a day before XMR will be hight as clouds in the toplist? Ok, i'm waiting.
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