rpietila Altcoin Observer

[rpietila]

rpietila, I am very surprised that you are not invested in NXT. Between the java platform, proof of stake done correctly and decentralized exchange it is definitely a value adding block chain.
The bigger the idle stake, the bigger your interest in keeping the system working and you can act upon this by simply holding on to your stake. With bitcoin, miners for example have a big say on the state of the system even if they hold no btc. In NXT, on the other hand, the only entities with a significant say in the state of the system are the ones holding actual stakes in the system.

My problem with NXT is that it was IPOed, which I think is not a way to create a coin, because there are no economic ways to distribute it. Due to that issue, I haven't cared to even look what it is doing, since I don't believe it can fly based on that alone.

[transit]

Check out SexCoin SXC. It dropped hard since last bubble and it's trading @ 0.00000360 BTC. It can take up two zeros easily in the next bull market.

[klee]

rpietila, I am very surprised that you are not invested in NXT. Between the java platform, proof of stake done correctly and decentralized exchange it is definitely a value adding block chain.
The bigger the idle stake, the bigger your interest in keeping the system working and you can act upon this by simply holding on to your stake. With bitcoin, miners for example have a big say on the state of the system even if they hold no btc. In NXT, on the other hand, the only entities with a significant say in the state of the system are the ones holding actual stakes in the system.

My problem with NXT is that it was IPOed, which I think is not a way to create a coin, because there are no economic ways to distribute it. Due to that issue, I haven't cared to even look what it is doing, since I don't believe it can fly based on that alone.

It will never be 3rd on coinmarketcap for sure!

[rpietila]

rpietila, I am very surprised that you are not invested in NXT. Between the java platform, proof of stake done correctly and decentralized exchange it is definitely a value adding block chain.
The bigger the idle stake, the bigger your interest in keeping the system working and you can act upon this by simply holding on to your stake. With bitcoin, miners for example have a big say on the state of the system even if they hold no btc. In NXT, on the other hand, the only entities with a significant say in the state of the system are the ones holding actual stakes in the system.

My problem with NXT is that it was IPOed, which I think is not a way to create a coin, because there are no economic ways to distribute it. Due to that issue, I haven't cared to even look what it is doing, since I don't believe it can fly based on that alone.

It will never be 3rd on coinmarketcap for sure!

That something is not only questionable, but also overvalued, does not make it any more interesting as an investment for me 

[klee]

rpietila, I am very surprised that you are not invested in NXT. Between the java platform, proof of stake done correctly and decentralized exchange it is definitely a value adding block chain.
The bigger the idle stake, the bigger your interest in keeping the system working and you can act upon this by simply holding on to your stake. With bitcoin, miners for example have a big say on the state of the system even if they hold no btc. In NXT, on the other hand, the only entities with a significant say in the state of the system are the ones holding actual stakes in the system.

My problem with NXT is that it was IPOed, which I think is not a way to create a coin, because there are no economic ways to distribute it. Due to that issue, I haven't cared to even look what it is doing, since I don't believe it can fly based on that alone.

It will never be 3rd on coinmarketcap for sure!

That something is not only questionable, but also overvalued, does not make it any more interesting as an investment for me 

Speaking of Bitcoin? I am confused sorry

[true-asset]

Uro is a unique currency that is long term 1:1 backed to the value of 1 metric tonne of Urea fertiliser (the world's most important fertiliser) via a contractual protocol that defines this value in stone by enforcing the ability to exchange Uro for Urea with international Urea trading firms. 1 metric tonne of Urea is worth about $300.

Some background:

Main thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=600639.0

1 Uro = 1 MT Urea Announcement: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=600639.msg7084422#msg7084422

Uro Protocol Released: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=600639.msg7160264#msg7160264

Official Website: http://uro.io
Twitter: https://twitter.com/UroFoundation

[r0ach]

Uro is a unique currency that is long term 1:1 backed to the value of 1 metric tonne of Urea fertiliser (the world's most important fertiliser)

First coin whether physical or cryptocurrency to ever be literally backed by shit?

[AlexGR]

Uro is a unique currency that is long term 1:1 backed to the value of 1 metric tonne of Urea fertiliser (the world's most important fertiliser)

First coin whether physical or cryptocurrency to ever be literally backed by shit?

Ahahaha that was good.

[darlidada]

I've already asked this question but received no definitive answear. So I ask again : can we agree that this type of POS coin is just a ponzi scheme ? click here to see its specifics: https://i.imgur.com/hoMguRt.jpg

I'm asking this because I'd like this thread to relate not only good investment opportunities but also blatant scams.

[true-asset]

Fact: Urea as a fertilizer accounts for about half the world's food production.

Fact: A modern Urea manufacturing facility like the one currently being built-in by and Indian firm in Canada costs 1.6 Billion USD: http://www.thehindu.com/business/Industry/iffco-gets-approval-to-set-up-16-bn-urea-plant-in-canada/article5928926.ece

Fact: China exports about 29 Billion USD worth of Urea fertilizer per year: http://www.profercy.com/2014/04/china-from-worlds-largest-urea-importer-to-largest-exporter/

Fact: food is important to everyone.

[GreekBitcoin]

Fact: Urea as a fertilizer accounts for about half the world's food production.

Fact: A modern Urea manufacturing facility like the one currently being built-in by and Indian firm in Canada costs 1.6 Billion USD: http://www.thehindu.com/business/Industry/iffco-gets-approval-to-set-up-16-bn-urea-plant-in-canada/article5928926.ece

Fact: China exports about 29 Billion USD worth of Urea fertilizer per year: http://www.profercy.com/2014/04/china-from-worlds-largest-urea-importer-to-largest-exporter/

Fact: food is important to everyone.

With Urea you can make cheap explosives. So with 1 block you can  like demolish a a few town blocks? I see a bright future for this coin... lol

[dnaleor]

Uro is a unique currency that is long term 1:1 backed to the value of 1 metric tonne of Urea fertiliser (the world's most important fertiliser)

First coin whether physical or cryptocurrency to ever be literally backed by shit?

this is a joke

[StarenseN]

following

[jabo38]

This has been a fascinating thread to read.  I just finished every page.  Thanks for rpietilia for starting it!  I also really appreciate that he says his investments up front and is clear.  I value honesty and if somebody can say this is what I bought and why, I am happy to listen to them.  I think it is much better than people screaming "______ is so great and to the moon."

I want to comment in on somethings where I agree and disagree with other posters.  

As for the original post.  I think rpietila makes really good points about most altcoins.  They won't last.  It isn't that many of these coins don't have better algo's or functions because they do.  That is cool to have a better coin, but bitcoin has soooooo many more roads for those coins to travel down and destinations to park at.  To beat or even challenge a bitcoin, a coin will not only need to be a better coin but have better roads and endpoints.  That simply will be hard to do.

So some have said that bitcoin won't ever be dethroned.  I get that.  It is the king of kings of crypto.  Yet, all kings do eventually fall.  Every piece of technology that you can think of and name, every thing that you see when you look around night now, none of it is 1st generation.  All first generation tech eventually gives way to 2nd.  In many cases the 1st gen might live on, but only in the shadow of the 2nd gen.  

Monero all around looks better to me than Darkcoin which is the coin of the day right now.  But still, does that mean it will be better in 3 months, in 6 months, in a year?  In this scene, I doubt it.  There always seems to be something "newer/better/greater" that will "change the world".  

The truth is bitcoin hasn't even changed hardly anything about the world.  Its market cap is soooooo low that many iphone/android apps can actually be worth more than the whole of bitcoin.  My example: Whatsapp, a simple texting app sold for twice the bitcoin market cap.  There are lots and lots of other examples.  Bitcoin is a very small player still.

Many posts have stated that NXT is not a currency.  While the original post slams, and I think correctly so most alts, I think its is wrong about NXT.  Just because somebody doesn't think NXT won't be a currency doesn't mean it won't be.  For me, bitcoin isn't even a real currency, though it hopefully will be one day.  Bitcoin to me is just internet bling bling.  Yes, it can be traded for cash and its network is growing, but I wouldn't call it a currency and 99% of the rest of the world wouldn't either.  To them it is just fake internet money.  

It seems like Monero has a lot of strengths going for it, and I very likely might buy, but I am not sure what its long term chances are.  Okay, it adds privacy.  Good, and after that is done, what does it do?  

A 2.0 like NXT could and probably will add that feature.  When I look to invest, I ask myself, not what is a coin doing, but what will it do in the future?  When I look at NXT, the answer is EVERYTHING.  

Its initial distribution was terrible, and that will forever be a thorn in its side to the public.  But as a "business" that was IPOed, it has been quite helpful.  These 20-30 developers have been able to combine their power and funds and make NXT do powerful things and they have a lot of more supporters.  This verses the other type of model where a lone developer programs on his own.  

I am even more excited about NEM.  I think it addresses a distribution problem.  In fact, in my opinion, no serious crypto ever will have had the spread out distribution that NEM is suppose to have. It will also have a new system called POI designed to make the network secure.  While NEM has less developers (I think around 8 ), they have been divided up and focus on areas working as a solid team that is planned out.  NXT's devs are free to work on what they want when they want.  Which so far has been good for NXT.  

I am also very excited about Ethereum as a 2.0 platform.  It promises to bring a lot of service and value to crypto.  Again, when I ask, what will it do?  My answer is everything.  And it is even more focused and departmentalized than NEM.  

In three years from now when a person wants to wire money overseas, they will look at their bank and check its fees.  Maybe they will compare to bitcoin too.  And maybe also compare to NXT, NEM, or an Ethereum service.  And the user will often pick the service that is the fastest, cheapest, and easiest.  If I tell that person "Hey..... don't use NXT.  It is not a currency, it was started with an IPO instead of mining."  I seriously doubt said user will really care.

Peter R. talked earlier about how money is a confidence game.  I think he was spot on.  Up until a few years ago, nobody would have had confidence in bitcoin as a way of transferring value, and actually most people still don't, but all of us see the possibility.  That is why we are here.  But in 5 years, who knows really what we will see as money and have confidence in.  I think there is a lot of room for a 2.0 to gain our confidence.  

As time goes on, more and more POsomething is moving into the top 10 and the POW's are going out.  I think this trend will continue and even litecoin will be picked off out of its #2 position.  

Still, I am not sure if anything mentioned anywhere on this thread can challenge bitcoin in the near term.  It is not just about the coin, but where it goes and who will take it.  

[r0ach]

Peter R. talked earlier about how money is a confidence game.  I think he was spot on.

That was me that called money a confidence game, he replied to my post.

I've already asked this question but received no definitive answear. So I ask again : can we agree that this type of POS coin is just a ponzi scheme ? click here to see its specifics: https://i.imgur.com/hoMguRt.jpg

First off, let me say that most currencies, whether real or virtual, exhibit traits of pyramid schemes, but not ponzi scams, so let's get that out on the table.  I made a technical case in the Hobonickel thread that variable interest rate coins like this can be classified as Ponzi scams for a few reasons.  The first was the fact that stake weight increases PoW difficulty.  Original holders would then be shafting newer entrants by staking.  Tokyoghetto of course did not agree with me.

That was the first aspect that makes it qualify.  The second would be that the coin is advertised as 100% interest, but if the coin sees any adoption whatsoever and everyone stakes, the interest rate goes down significantly, at least in Hobonickel's case.  There was one of my exact quotes from the thread below.  The context of this quote is me referring to getting 100% interest when barely anyone stakes, versus getting little interest when lots of people stake:

"Maybe the developer didn't intend it to be a ponzi scam, but that's the way it functions in the real world.  It's actually one of the most ingenious Ponzi scams ever invented because there's always incentive for someone to buy up coins when the value goes low to "reboot" the system.  It's almost like an immortal ponzi scam virus."

[jabo38]

well you had a good idea then 

[klee]

All current PoW coins have to prove they can't become centralised (highly unlikely) and PoS ones that they are secure...

That said, be careful with your money people!

[giveBTCpls]

Will XMR keep crashing or is this a good time to entry? I cant believe I bought at the top 

[devphp]

Will XMR keep crashing or is this a good time to entry? I cant believe I bought at the top 

Until it hits a big exchange, don't expect much upside. However, due to both technical and political reasons big exchanges won't hurry to add it, I believe.

[r0ach]

Need critique of an obvious crypto problem I see developing in the following post entitled:

"Stop kicking the can down the road: Fix the terminal endgame crypto flaw"

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=644349.0