rpietila Altcoin Observer

[superresistant]

Can someone in the know summarize the BBR coin for me in 10 lines, please.

- Great team
- Sexy cross-platform GUI (Windows/Linux/MacOS)
- Fast synchronization blockchain
- Forced TX mixing
- Network Alerts
- Optional 1% donation to devs
- Reduced blockchain weight (dust tx removed)
- Wallet addresses aliasing
- Different emission curve
- Different algo (Wild Keccak)
- Special prefix tx off rig signature

[Anotheranonlol]

The BBR emission curve seems preferable to XMR, in terms of the buy support that would need to come in to offset newly minted coins being dumped on market

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

Boolberry: 1464 days (~4 years)      6.373539000000 block reward     63% total emission percent 11701616.548800000000

Monero: 80% of the coins are mined within 4 years

Short term emission, BBR has a less steep curve .. but 17% difference after 4 years is not so large that I'd let it turn me away for long term holding of XMR. I mean maybe if I were considering short term holdings on both then I can sympathize with you somewhat, but I'm considering this more of a long-term kind of thing.

I'm not arguing the case that XMR is overvalued relative to BBR, more that BBR seems undervalued relative (in a long term outlook I think both are undervalued).

When I originally decided to diversify from BTC into LTC - the first alt with some traction, ASIC resistance was a big factor. As far as is known today, Both XMR and BBR PoW provide strong ASIC resistance. Anyone can mine with commodity hardware (back to 1 cpu/1 vote) more or less. The fact we have unlinkable tx, blockchain analysis resistance, relative indistinguishability and no longer have to worry about double-spends is just the icing on the cake. Can't see a reason to bother with a 'legacy' altcoin hacked together with pseudo-anonymity like DRK and so on going forward when we have unpolished diamonds right here cruising by in stealth mode.

Personally, I think It's quite rare to buy into 'altcoins' with long term plans in mind. but short-medium & long term both seem like great buys. Definitely early adopter phase still.

[dnaleor]

Can someone in the know summarize the BBR coin for me in 10 lines, please.

- Great team
- Sexy cross-platform GUI (Windows/Linux/MacOS)
- Fast synchronization blockchain
- Forced TX mixing
- Network Alerts
- Optional 1% donation to devs
- Reduced blockchain weight (dust tx removed)
- Wallet addresses aliasing
- Different emission curve
- Different algo (Wild Keccak)
- Special prefix tx off rig signature

that's 11 lines
But I'll look into it

[pandacoin]

BBR/BTC  +156.6%    Last: 0.00231  High: 0.00301  Low: 0.000815

I think we missed the train yesterday.

[Anotheranonlol]

BBR/BTC  +156.6%    Last: 0.00231  High: 0.00301  Low: 0.000815

I think we missed the train yesterday.

Not when it was trading at 0.003+ prior to even being listed on an exchange.

Can someone in the know summarize the BBR coin for me in 10 lines, please.

- Great team
- Sexy cross-platform GUI (Windows/Linux/MacOS)
- Fast synchronization blockchain
- Forced TX mixing
- Network Alerts
- Optional 1% donation to devs
- Reduced blockchain weight (dust tx removed)
- Wallet addresses aliasing
- Different emission curve
- Different algo (Wild Keccak)
- Special prefix tx off rig signature

that's 11 lines
But I'll look into it

This would be an interesting thing to analyse for XMR/BBR comparison.

BBR features transaction outs with guaranteed anonymity. An additional attribute for out is added: it can ONLY be used in the transaction with mixin level in ring signature not less than a given number. The feature is added to ensure the user's anonymity of transactions ring signature over time.

[aeternum.in]

BBR/BTC  +156.6%    Last: 0.00231  High: 0.00301  Low: 0.000815

I think we missed the train yesterday.

Maybe not, there are some serious issues at the moment and talk about a hard fork- so don't feel so bad. Those gains might be only temporary.

[equipoise]

BBR/BTC  +156.6%    Last: 0.00231  High: 0.00301  Low: 0.000815

I think we missed the train yesterday.

Maybe not, there are some serious issues at the moment and talk about a hard fork- so don't feel so bad. Those gains might be only temporary.

I think those "gains" were because of the GUI wallet news (yesterday?). On my opinion a GUI wallet have almost noting to add to the current value and this is a two days hype. If you think you missed the train and want to buy I think it's going to be where it was very soon. I have less then 1 BTC and some XMR and I'm not replacing any of those for BBR. If i had for example 100 BTC - why not - I was going to buy some just in case.

[Keyboard-Mash]

BBR/BTC  +156.6%    Last: 0.00231  High: 0.00301  Low: 0.000815

I think we missed the train yesterday.

Maybe not, there are some serious issues at the moment and talk about a hard fork- so don't feel so bad. Those gains might be only temporary.

I think those "gains" were because of the GUI wallet news (yesterday?). On my opinion a GUI wallet have almost noting to add to the current value and this is a two days hype. If you think you missed the train and want to buy I think it's going to be where it was very soon. I have less then 1 BTC and some XMR and I'm not replacing any of those for BBR. If i had for example 100 BTC - why not - I was going to buy some just in case.

Additionally, I'd like to add that there's very little supply. There's been a 50 BTC buy wall @ a price of 177% of yesterdays starting value before the spike .. it's been there for hours. Nobody has sold into it. To further test this, I put out a few very small orders of my own and, again, nobody sold into my buys until a little over an hour (I set them at 230% of yesterdays value!) . I think this has a lot to do with the private GPU miner situation .. where the people who don't have access to it are forced to have extreme expectations on what price they should sell at. I literally can't buy any at a price that's more than double yesterday! I wouldn't even consider paying more than that .. so ultimately I had to just give up. I hope some real progress is made on addressing the tendency to hoard ..

[aeternum.in]

BBR/BTC  +156.6%    Last: 0.00231  High: 0.00301  Low: 0.000815

I think we missed the train yesterday.

Maybe not, there are some serious issues at the moment and talk about a hard fork- so don't feel so bad. Those gains might be only temporary.

I think those "gains" were because of the GUI wallet news (yesterday?). On my opinion a GUI wallet have almost noting to add to the current value and this is a two days hype. If you think you missed the train and want to buy I think it's going to be where it was very soon. I have less then 1 BTC and some XMR and I'm not replacing any of those for BBR. If i had for example 100 BTC - why not - I was going to buy some just in case.

Additionally, I'd like to add that there's very little supply. There's been a 50 BTC buy wall @ a price of 177% of yesterdays starting value before the spike .. it's been there for hours. Nobody has sold into it. To further test this, I put out a few very small orders of my own and, again, nobody sold into my buys until a little over an hour (I set them at 230% of yesterdays value!) . I think this has a lot to do with the private GPU miner situation .. where the people who don't have access to it are forced to have extreme expectations on what price they should sell at. I literally can't buy any at a price that's more than double yesterday! I wouldn't even consider paying more than that .. so ultimately I had to just give up. I hope some real progress is made on addressing the tendency to hoard ..

Well hoarding is always a problem, but perhaps there are just too few of them to not hoard, if you know what I mean.

EDIT: how fast is the supply increasing?

[Keyboard-Mash]

Well hoarding is always a problem, but perhaps there are just too few of them to not hoard, if you know what I mean.

EDIT: how fast is the supply increasing?

Daily supply should be about 12k or so.

edit: Specifically, I was referring to the supply going to market .. not the daily supply mined. If someone's willing to pay me almost 2x as much as what I had yesterday for something .. I'm probably gonna take that deal. Especially if I have the ability to sell off parts of what I have rather than the entire thing at once.

[dunchy]

Can someone in the know summarize the BBR coin for me in 10 lines, please.

- Great team
- Sexy cross-platform GUI (Windows/Linux/MacOS)
- Fast synchronization blockchain
- Forced TX mixing
- Network Alerts
- Optional 1% donation to devs
- Reduced blockchain weight (dust tx removed)
- Wallet addresses aliasing
- Different emission curve
- Different algo (Wild Keccak)
- Special prefix tx off rig signature

What about WKeccak vs Cryptonote gpu "friendliness"? Which pow is expected to perform better on GPU once the optimized gpu code is released?

[cAPSLOCK]

What about WKeccak vs Cryptonote gpu "friendliness"? Which pow is expected to perform better on GPU once the optimized gpu code is released?

Current thought is it can be 2-7 times more efficient but not quite that cost efficient.  The idea is as the coin matures the scratchpad size will increase.  Currently the scratchpad can be creatively divided among texture memory on GFX cards.  But in time that will no longer be easy to do.  Rumors of a hard fork to cure this seem to be dying down because of this.

Currently the developer of the Wild Keccak GPU miner is keeping it to himself.  Looks like it will only really benefit him.

[@cryptopumper]

Problem with BBR is lack of blockchain.
Quantity of coins is roughly unknown but probably about 500-750k.

Roughly a market cap of BTC1,187.5

XMR market cap of BTC7,805

I for one have no idea what to make of BBR since it has a terrible name. Watching for short-term trading opportunities and developments though.

[Anotheranonlol]

Problem with BBR is lack of blockchain.
Quantity of coins is roughly unknown but probably about 500-750k.

Roughly a market cap of BTC1,187.5

XMR market cap of BTC7,805

I for one have no idea what to make of BBR since it has a terrible name. Watching for short-term trading opportunities and developments though.

No, it's much less than 750k. All you have to do is blockheight * blockreward.
The reward will diminish gradually (it's already gone from 17.4 - 17.0)

Based on current supply & last prices at poloniex:
BBR  market cap            BTC678
XMR (via coinmarketcap) BTC7,759

Draw your own conclusions here..

[aeternum.in]

Problem with BBR is lack of blockchain.
Quantity of coins is roughly unknown but probably about 500-750k.

Roughly a market cap of BTC1,187.5

XMR market cap of BTC7,805

I for one have no idea what to make of BBR since it has a terrible name. Watching for short-term trading opportunities and developments though.

How does it lack a blockchain?

[Anotheranonlol]

How does it lack a blockchain?

I think he meant to write block explorer.

[aminorex]

I agree that BBR dev is extremely good.  I consider myself a good developer.  I do not hand out such complements often (ever?).

Name is silly enough to be a problem at some point -- could prevent it from becoming a monopoly currency -- but actually has a quirky charm.  Logo is delicous, brilliant.  Love that logo.

Hash algorithm is utterly uninteresting.  Remove that item from the list.  It is not much more ASIC resistant than cryptonight.  It is actually harmful right now because of private GPU mining.

Open source software is not a competitive edge.  It is interesting, helpful, powerful, yes, but it is not an edge.

Emission is a chaotic factor.  Only a blind ideologue or a brilliantly foresightful causal analyst with deep insight into the demographics of the user base would form a firm conclusion from an emission rate, once "premine" issues are no longer a problem.  BBR was a fair launch, so emission is not a disqualifier.

My gut tells me BBR will do well at some point for some period of time.  It would not be unwise to accumulate some, but the book is dodgy enough and the mined supply overhanging enough to mean you may have a big drawdown from this price for a while before BBR sees its brightest days.  In the long-run, I do not think a substantial proportion of the global economy will run on something called Boolberry introduced by someone called crypto_zoidberg.  It is a cartoon lark.
BBR will dilute XMR demand during BBRs best times.  XMR will grow orders of magnitude larger in the long run, barring substantial material adversity.  It will adopt BBRs best software improvements, and have a much stronger network.

I would sacrifice a minor body part to have that logo on my favcoin, however.

[dewdeded]

Coin name can be changed. Maybe just go with "BBR" as name.
Dev name/nick is irrelevant. Coin can only survive if (sooner or later) lead dev is replaced by a vivid team. Only a coin lead by dev team can survive.

Monero devs have funny nicknames too (fluffypony, tacotime, ...). But they also have two devs with normal names: othe and David Laporte.

[aeternum.in]

Coin name can be changed. Maybe just go with "BBR" as name.
Dev name/nick is irrelevant. Coin can only survive if (sooner or later) lead dev is replaced by a vivid team. Only a coin lead by dev team can survive.

Monero devs have funny nicknames too (fluffypony, tacotime, ...). But they also have two devs with normal names: othe and David Laporte.

Also the "privacy" coins are quite a new thing. They need totally new services built around them, and need a new infrastructure. It will be interesting to see where they go, and if they can gain traction.

[aminorex]

0.02 would be sustainable if the marginal supply cost reached 0.02.

False. At that price, MRO new mintage is worth BTC480 per day. If these don't find willing holders the price drops. Would be true in the following format:
"The marginal supply cost would reach 0.02 if that price were sustainable."

That's fair over some time-frame, but over the full year?  I think 6 months of XMR might recapitulate 18 months of BTC history, easily.

It really is a bidirectional implication, and causal forces can invert the feedback loop equally well ambidextrously, which makes the argument entirely symmetric.  Which way the feedback loop is actually oriented in practice is, of course, the crucial fact on the ground.  If you say that the feedback loop will be negative at the point where price is no longer sustainable, I respect that, but I would like an explanation why, if possible.

The best explanation "why" that I can provide for myself is that there is a boundary condition imposed by the limits of demand side liquidity imposed by current channels.  Given that plx alone turns over 500 BTC on a good day, I don't think that current channels prevent a 0.02 price today, and I think they can support higher volumes handily.  (Of course qcn,fcn,bbr,bcn demand all dilute the xmr demand, so that places additional load on the liquidity channels.)

The only other limit on demand is crowd psychology, and I can't find a rationale for the 0.02 limit in that alone.  If you can do that with confidence, even to an order of magnitude, hat tip to you.  I can occasionally, but if there is another feedback loop confounding the growth, and I am not aware of it, then I will consistently underestimate the scope of a mania.

Of course a manic spike is the very definition of unsustainable.

I hope XMR never sees a manic spike.  But I know in my head that it is a vain hope.