BitDrop (or ShadyDeliveryNetwork), a non-robotic courier system

[boonies4u]

nuh-uh. That's a security hole. If I'm sending something, I drop it, and then forget it. Once I'm home, I notify the network, and it's out of my hands.

So is this dead drop or courier? I was thinking of a hybrid.

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[myrkul]

nuh-uh. That's a security hole. If I'm sending something, I drop it, and then forget it. Once I'm home, I notify the network, and it's out of my hands.

So is this dead drop or courier? I was thinking of a hybrid.

As I understand it, courier from drop to drop.

[myrkul]

I heard some noises about an insurance program which would take some of the stress out of that.

[Shadow383]

The system requires a lot of trust, leaving a deposit with the system for the first few deliveries while you build a reputation works there but if your doing blind drops you have to trust every step in the chain, either A didn't drop it or B was lying when he said it wasn't there.

A suggestion:

Give each runner a code to write down/print off.
They give code to the runner that delivers to them, and that person can then enter it on the site and get paid.

That way, you know roughly where in the chain the item is at all times.
If a runner isn't happy that they've received the right package (maybe send them all a picture of it when they confirm too) then they don't give the one that delivered to them their code, and the problem gets reported.

Then, when you take delivery, you give your receipt code to the last runner and when they enter it in the site to get paid the delivery gets marked as successful.
Thoughts?

[teknomunk]

I heard some noises about an insurance program which would take some of the stress out of that.

Perhaps something along the lines of a Surety bond could help?  The couriers each put up an amount of money (BTC) as collateral for carried packages.  This may also help with the repudation problem as it is easier to prove that money has been put in escrow than it is to check a person's honesty.  Also should help with bootstrapping repudation.  Not quite sure how it would work if a third-party grabs the package at a dead drop.

[Bitcoin Oz]

https://www.meemeep.com/  this is a similar idea.

[Bitcoin Oz]

I heard some noises about an insurance program which would take some of the stress out of that.

Perhaps something along the lines of a Surety bond could help?  The couriers each put up an amount of money (BTC) as collateral for carried packages.  This may also help with the repudation problem as it is easier to prove that money has been put in escrow than it is to check a person's honesty.  Also should help with bootstrapping repudation.  Not quite sure how it would work if a third-party grabs the package at a dead drop.

This is an obvious solution. There are ways to prove that the person is the same as the one who placed the bond too such as signed bitcoin messages. (They sign a message using the private keys to the bond address).

[myrkul]

I heard some noises about an insurance program which would take some of the stress out of that.

Perhaps something along the lines of a Surety bond could help?  The couriers each put up an amount of money (BTC) as collateral for carried packages.  This may also help with the reputation problem as it is easier to prove that money has been put in escrow than it is to check a person's honesty.  Also should help with bootstrapping reputation.  Not quite sure how it would work if a third-party grabs the package at a dead drop.

This is an obvious solution. There are ways to prove that the person is the same as the one who placed the bond too such as signed bitcoin messages. (They sign a message using the private keys to the bond address).

Great ideas.

[bbit]

Couldn't a sub-contractor system work? A large, recognized courier system would hire sub-contractors to handle deliveries. This way, even if the individual courier gets in trouble, the actual agency would have plausible deniability.

Why would anyone want to be a courier if it meant assuming responsibility for the package contents with absolutely no assurance it wasn't something illegal or dangerous?

this ^^

[HostFat]

this ^^

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=6279.msg95977#msg95977

[420]

https://www.meemeep.com/  this is a similar idea.

new plan

1. convince meemeep to use bitcoins

2. done

[EhVedadoOAnonimato]

I heard some noises about an insurance program which would take some of the stress out of that.

Perhaps something along the lines of a Surety bond could help?  The couriers each put up an amount of money (BTC) as collateral for carried packages.  This may also help with the repudation problem as it is easier to prove that money has been put in escrow than it is to check a person's honesty.  Also should help with bootstrapping repudation.  Not quite sure how it would work if a third-party grabs the package at a dead drop.

The risk of an unrelated third-party stealing the package should be small, and easier to deal with.

The main problem for which I haven't yet seen a good answer is infiltrated law enforcement, particular those wanting to build reputation before attacking. Suppose they don't care about giving some money to the system (escrow that would be taken from them). And suppose they are willing to deliver a few packages before attacking.
How do you protect your runners from them when they decide to drop traps?

[420]

I heard some noises about an insurance program which would take some of the stress out of that.

Perhaps something along the lines of a Surety bond could help?  The couriers each put up an amount of money (BTC) as collateral for carried packages.  This may also help with the repudation problem as it is easier to prove that money has been put in escrow than it is to check a person's honesty.  Also should help with bootstrapping repudation.  Not quite sure how it would work if a third-party grabs the package at a dead drop.

The risk of an unrelated third-party stealing the package should be small, and easier to deal with.

The main problem for which I haven't yet seen a good answer is infiltrated law enforcement, particular those wanting to build reputation before attacking. Suppose they don't care about giving some money to the system (escrow that would be taken from them). And suppose they are willing to deliver a few packages before attacking.
How do you protect your runners from them when they decide to drop traps?

maybe a copy of the Constitution

[Bitcoin Oz]

https://www.meemeep.com/  this is a similar idea.

new plan

1. convince meemeep to use bitcoins

2. done

Not had a chance to read through all their info yet but if it looks like bitcoin could work with what they're doing then I'll probably get in touch with them in the next few days. I'm not a good spokesman though, if this is to be anything more than just brain farts it could do with someone taking lead and approaching them with a clear plan to discuss (I'm not volunteering, I'm no leader either).

The thread title suggests an underground courier service that knows its taking a risk, if thats whats wanted then approaching legitimate businesses is a bad idea. If a legitimate distributed courier network is the plan then the likelihood of infiltration by the cops is the same as any other courier system (postal service, UPS etc) and the couriers  legal liability for package contents is the same, ie. none.

I emailed them awhile ago asking about bitcoin but they said they had no plan to use it. Maybe if a few people ask they will reconsider.

[n8rwJeTt8TrrLKPa55eU]

Interesting new service which a P2P delivery network could utilize for pickups and dropoffs:

BufferBox Offers Open Platform Alternative to Amazon Lockers
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4358708

[Bjork]

I have a feeling that the primary reason for the success of this delivery network will be the option to have "dark packages" delivered.  Meemeep and other "legitimate" businesses would never do this, and thus will never be as successful as this could.  I think many of the silk road sellers would love to use something like this, and if you plan on partnering up with anyone SR would be a good place to

[frisco2]

Please note that there is 500 LTC in this account,

https://booster.io/tipjar/0c8xe2g

Who put it in there ? It is now a solid amount.

[420]

why Nefario a scammer?

going up norcal->Socal back a few times coming up if anyone needs deliveries

Legal stuff

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

why Nefario a scammer?

going up norcal->Socal back a few times coming up if anyone needs deliveries

Legal stuff

why is Nefario a scammer LOL

He closed down GLBSE.

[420]

why Nefario a scammer?

going up norcal->Socal back a few times coming up if anyone needs deliveries

Legal stuff

why is Nefario a scammer LOL

He closed down GLBSE.

oh. i didn't lose anyting to that

how long was that up?