MinerTechnologies.com - 3 TH/S and 200MH/S ASM1 for sell / Cloud contracts.

[jonnybravo0311]

At current - 11756551916.9 difficulty, our cloud clients earn $841.68 per month. Approximately  $25-$27 USD daily. Which means you get ROI  back in 3 months.


Im talking about this contract - http://mining.minertechnologies.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=43

Yes, but I find it very hard to belive that you don't know that this difficulty is increasing every 11 days (between 12% - 20%). Your calculations are misleading because you know very well what I'm talking about. It's not good for the image of your company to state false numbers, the difficulty it's not static. Present all the risks with buying cloud mining contracts so the costumers can make their calculations . Don't mislead costumers with false calculations, we had enought companies like this!

It's not just the difficulty that changes.  The price of BTC also changes.

Sorry, $2.6 per GH/s is just not competitively priced at all.  No ROI for customer at all locked in for a year, only profit for provider and that's it.

Gotta be much lower than $2 per GH to even be considered.

It's all variables and it's all risk.  Whether or not you choose to accept it is the question.  You can't just make a blanket statement of "if it's not under $2 per GH, it'll never ROI."  If the price of BTC shoots up to $1000 tomorrow, that $2 per GH will ROI just fine.

[Syke]

It's all variables and it's all risk.  Whether or not you choose to accept it is the question.  You can't just make a blanket statement of "if it's not under $2 per GH, it'll never ROI."  If the price of BTC shoots up to $1000 tomorrow, that $2 per GH will ROI just fine.

If you need BTC to skyrocket to ROI, then you're far better off just buying the BTC.

[ChuckBuck]

At current - 11756551916.9 difficulty, our cloud clients earn $841.68 per month. Approximately  $25-$27 USD daily. Which means you get ROI  back in 3 months.


Im talking about this contract - http://mining.minertechnologies.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=43

Yes, but I find it very hard to belive that you don't know that this difficulty is increasing every 11 days (between 12% - 20%). Your calculations are misleading because you know very well what I'm talking about. It's not good for the image of your company to state false numbers, the difficulty it's not static. Present all the risks with buying cloud mining contracts so the costumers can make their calculations . Don't mislead costumers with false calculations, we had enought companies like this!

It's not just the difficulty that changes.  The price of BTC also changes.

Sorry, $2.6 per GH/s is just not competitively priced at all.  No ROI for customer at all locked in for a year, only profit for provider and that's it.

Gotta be much lower than $2 per GH to even be considered.

It's all variables and it's all risk.  Whether or not you choose to accept it is the question.  You can't just make a blanket statement of "if it's not under $2 per GH, it'll never ROI."  If the price of BTC shoots up to $1000 tomorrow, that $2 per GH will ROI just fine.

Not if you pay in BTC, it won't.  If you pay 4 BTC, you'll never mine back 4 BTC under any conditions, whatsoever.

So my blanket statement does apply.

[jonsi]

At current - 11756551916.9 difficulty, our cloud clients earn $841.68 per month. Approximately  $25-$27 USD daily. Which means you get ROI  back in 3 months.


Im talking about this contract - http://mining.minertechnologies.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=43

Yes, but I find it very hard to belive that you don't know that this difficulty is increasing every 11 days (between 12% - 20%). Your calculations are misleading because you know very well what I'm talking about. It's not good for the image of your company to state false numbers, the difficulty it's not static. Present all the risks with buying cloud mining contracts so the costumers can make their calculations . Don't mislead costumers with false calculations, we had enought companies like this!

Best hope for us is Bitcoin Price will increase
so we can make ROI in fiat that we use to purchase cloud mining contract
If not, we will make a long way to ROI

Mining have nothing to do with the btc/usd price ratio. You should always report mining only to btc.

[jonsi]

Difficulty will rise, prices will be lowered.

But this doesn't have nothing to do with the ones that allready paid for a contract. You just can't say that you will ROI in three months based on the curent difficulty, you are misleading people with this kind of calculations.

[Mayuyu48]

Mining have nothing to do with the btc/usd price ratio. You should always report mining only to btc.

I understand what do you mean
so we must stick in BTC for mining report, not USD
if we do like that, hard to make ROI in 3 months, maybe 4-5 months still possible

[ChuckBuck]

Mining have nothing to do with the btc/usd price ratio. You should always report mining only to btc.

I understand what do you mean
so we must stick in BTC for mining report, not USD
if we do like that, hard to make ROI in 3 months, maybe 4-5 months still possible

That is exactly it.  You always calculate in BTC (invest) to BTC (mining profit).

If you're mining (hardware or cloud) hoping USD rise, but with a risk of not making as much BTC as you put in, you're losing money plain and simple.

If you invest in USD, but are also hoping for a BTC price increase, you're better off just buying the Bitcoin outright and sitting on it.

[jonnybravo0311]

At current - 11756551916.9 difficulty, our cloud clients earn $841.68 per month. Approximately  $25-$27 USD daily. Which means you get ROI  back in 3 months.


Im talking about this contract - http://mining.minertechnologies.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=43

Yes, but I find it very hard to belive that you don't know that this difficulty is increasing every 11 days (between 12% - 20%). Your calculations are misleading because you know very well what I'm talking about. It's not good for the image of your company to state false numbers, the difficulty it's not static. Present all the risks with buying cloud mining contracts so the costumers can make their calculations . Don't mislead costumers with false calculations, we had enought companies like this!

It's not just the difficulty that changes.  The price of BTC also changes.

Sorry, $2.6 per GH/s is just not competitively priced at all.  No ROI for customer at all locked in for a year, only profit for provider and that's it.

Gotta be much lower than $2 per GH to even be considered.

It's all variables and it's all risk.  Whether or not you choose to accept it is the question.  You can't just make a blanket statement of "if it's not under $2 per GH, it'll never ROI."  If the price of BTC shoots up to $1000 tomorrow, that $2 per GH will ROI just fine.

Not if you pay in BTC, it won't.  If you pay 4 BTC, you'll never mine back 4 BTC under any conditions, whatsoever.

So my blanket statement does apply.

No, your statement was using USD "...lower than $2 per GH to even be considered".  If you pay a current price of $2.60, which is the asking price of the contract, that's your starting point.  if BTC crashes to $100 and stays there, you'll never recover your initial investment.  If BTC goes to $1000, you're going to make your investment back and then some.

Your next statement, "...you'll never mine back 4 BTC under any conditions..." is incorrect.  If difficulty were to remain a constant, at current difficulty you'll mine 15.622BTC in a year.  Projecting a 10% difficulty increase will net you ~6BTC.

[jonnybravo0311]

Mining have nothing to do with the btc/usd price ratio. You should always report mining only to btc.

I understand what do you mean
so we must stick in BTC for mining report, not USD
if we do like that, hard to make ROI in 3 months, maybe 4-5 months still possible

That is exactly it.  You always calculate in BTC (invest) to BTC (mining profit).

If you're mining (hardware or cloud) hoping USD rise, but with a risk of not making as much BTC as you put in, you're losing money plain and simple.

If you invest in USD, but are also hoping for a BTC price increase, you're better off just buying the Bitcoin outright and sitting on it.

You're always taking a risk, which is what my initial statement was.  Regardless of if you invest USD, EUR, YEN or BTC, you hope that the output will be greater than your input.  If you invest 4BTC now, you're hoping that difficulty doesn't rise so dramatically as to make it impossible to recover that 4BTC.  If you invest $2599 now, you're hoping that the amount of BTC you earn from mining ends up greater than the $2599 you put in.

[ChuckBuck]

At current - 11756551916.9 difficulty, our cloud clients earn $841.68 per month. Approximately  $25-$27 USD daily. Which means you get ROI  back in 3 months.


Im talking about this contract - http://mining.minertechnologies.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=43

Yes, but I find it very hard to belive that you don't know that this difficulty is increasing every 11 days (between 12% - 20%). Your calculations are misleading because you know very well what I'm talking about. It's not good for the image of your company to state false numbers, the difficulty it's not static. Present all the risks with buying cloud mining contracts so the costumers can make their calculations . Don't mislead costumers with false calculations, we had enought companies like this!

It's not just the difficulty that changes.  The price of BTC also changes.

Sorry, $2.6 per GH/s is just not competitively priced at all.  No ROI for customer at all locked in for a year, only profit for provider and that's it.

Gotta be much lower than $2 per GH to even be considered.

It's all variables and it's all risk.  Whether or not you choose to accept it is the question.  You can't just make a blanket statement of "if it's not under $2 per GH, it'll never ROI."  If the price of BTC shoots up to $1000 tomorrow, that $2 per GH will ROI just fine.

Not if you pay in BTC, it won't.  If you pay 4 BTC, you'll never mine back 4 BTC under any conditions, whatsoever.

So my blanket statement does apply.

No, your statement was using USD "...lower than $2 per GH to even be considered".  If you pay a current price of $2.60, which is the asking price of the contract, that's your starting point.  if BTC crashes to $100 and stays there, you'll never recover your initial investment.  If BTC goes to $1000, you're going to make your investment back and then some.

Your next statement, "...you'll never mine back 4 BTC under any conditions..." is incorrect.  If difficulty were to remain a constant, at current difficulty you'll mine 15.622BTC in a year.  Projecting a 10% difficulty increase will net you ~6BTC.

Since when does difficulty stay still?  I actually anticipate a massive spike once Asicminer puts their 15 PH on the network.

You're using the wrong calculators dude, no way you'll mine 15.622 BTC under any conditions.

[ChuckBuck]

Mining have nothing to do with the btc/usd price ratio. You should always report mining only to btc.

I understand what do you mean
so we must stick in BTC for mining report, not USD
if we do like that, hard to make ROI in 3 months, maybe 4-5 months still possible

That is exactly it.  You always calculate in BTC (invest) to BTC (mining profit).

If you're mining (hardware or cloud) hoping USD rise, but with a risk of not making as much BTC as you put in, you're losing money plain and simple.

If you invest in USD, but are also hoping for a BTC price increase, you're better off just buying the Bitcoin outright and sitting on it.

You're always taking a risk, which is what my initial statement was.  Regardless of if you invest USD, EUR, YEN or BTC, you hope that the output will be greater than your input.  If you invest 4BTC now, you're hoping that difficulty doesn't rise so dramatically as to make it impossible to recover that 4BTC.  If you invest $2599 now, you're hoping that the amount of BTC you earn from mining ends up greater than the $2599 you put in.

You always calculate with BTC invest in, never fiat.

If you invested 4 BTC, you ROI by making back 4 BTC plus, not what 4 BTC's fiat amount was worth when you invested.

That's like saying I paid 4 gold bars for this house, but the house tripled in value, so the 1.33 gold bars I made back is A-OK.  Uh, no it's not, you just lost nearly 3 gold bars.

[jonnybravo0311]

Since when does difficulty stay still?  I actually anticipate a massive spike once Asicminer puts their 15 PH on the network.

You're using the wrong calculators dude, no way you'll mine 15.622 BTC under any conditions.

Um... simple math:
Difficulty * 2**32 / hashrate / 86400 = number of days to find a block.
25 / number of days to find a block = expected earnings per day.
Expected earnings per day * 365 = total BTC earned over a year.

Code:

11756551917 * 2**32 / 1000000000000 / 86400 = 584.42136571
25 / 584.42136571 = .04277735
.04277735 * 365 = 15.6137344

So, yes, assuming static difficulty, you will indeed earn that amount.  If you anticipate a 10% increase in difficulty, then you repeat that formula 26 times (assuming a 2 week difficulty change - this one I'll give you is variant because of reliance upon 2016 blocks, rather than actual time).

You always calculate with BTC invest in, never fiat.

If you invested 4 BTC, you ROI by making back 4 BTC plus, not what 4 BTC's fiat amount was worth when you invested.

That's like saying I paid 4 gold bars for this house, but the house tripled in value, so the 1.33 gold bars I made back is A-OK.  Uh, no it's not, you just lost nearly 3 gold bars.

Your example is wrong.  You're converting gold bars into a house.  The example would be better had you said, "I gave a guy 4 gold bars hoping that after a year he would return me more than 4 bars."

[ChuckBuck]

@johnnybravo

I don't see static anywhere, do you?

Difficulty History

Code:

Date	Difficulty	Change	Hash Rate
Jun 05 2014	11,756,551,917	12.44%	84,156,677 GH/s
May 24 2014	10,455,720,138	18.10%	74,844,960 GH/s
May 12 2014	8,853,416,309	10.66%	63,375,223 GH/s
Apr 29 2014	8,000,872,136	14.64%	57,272,474 GH/s
Apr 17 2014	6,978,842,650	14.04%	49,956,502 GH/s
Apr 05 2014	6,119,726,089	22.23%	43,806,706 GH/s
Mar 24 2014	5,006,860,589	17.80%	35,840,504 GH/s
Mar 13 2014	4,250,217,920	11.39%	30,424,245 GH/s
Feb 28 2014	3,815,723,799	21.92%	27,314,015 GH/s
Feb 17 2014	3,129,573,175	19.39%	22,402,357 GH/s
Feb 05 2014	2,621,404,453	19.49%	18,764,744 GH/s
Jan 24 2014	2,193,847,870	22.59%	15,704,175 GH/s
Jan 13 2014	1,789,546,951	26.16%	12,810,076 GH/s
Jan 02 2014	1,418,481,395	20.12%	10,153,885 GH/s
Dec 21 2013	1,180,923,195	30.01%	8,453,378 GH/s
Dec 10 2013	908,350,862	28.41%	6,502,229 GH/s
Nov 29 2013	707,408,283	16.07%	5,063,826 GH/s
Nov 17 2013	609,482,680	19.29%	4,362,847 GH/s
Nov 05 2013	510,929,738	30.70%	3,657,378 GH/s
Oct 26 2013	390,928,788	46.02%	2,798,377 GH/s
Oct 16 2013	267,731,249	41.45%	1,916,495 GH/s
Oct 06 2013	189,281,249	27.19%	1,354,928 GH/s
Sep 25 2013	148,819,200	32.13%	1,065,289 GH/s
Sep 14 2013	112,628,549	29.56%	806,227 GH/s
Sep 04 2013	86,933,018	32.22%	622,291 GH/s
Aug 24 2013	65,750,060	29.40%	470,657 GH/s
Aug 13 2013	50,810,339	35.88%	363,715 GH/s
Aug 03 2013	37,392,766	19.63%	267,668 GH/s
Jul 22 2013	31,256,961	19.47%	223,746 GH/s
Jul 11 2013	26,162,876	22.63%	187,281 GH/s
Jun 29 2013	21,335,329	10.32%	152,724 GH/s
Jun 16 2013	19,339,258	23.92%	138,436 GH/s
Jun 05 2013	15,605,633	28.41%	111,709 GH/s
May 25 2013	12,153,412	8.64%	86,998 GH/s
May 12 2013	11,187,257	11.03%	80,082 GH/s
Apr 30 2013	10,076,293	12.28%	72,129 GH/s
Apr 17 2013	8,974,296	16.96%	64,241 GH/s
Apr 05 2013	7,673,000	14.59%	54,925 GH/s
Mar 24 2013	6,695,826	38.13%	47,931 GH/s
Mar 14 2013	4,847,647	10.98%	34,701 GH/s
Mar 01 2013	4,367,876	19.63%	31,266 GH/s
Feb 18 2013	3,651,012	11.47%	26,135 GH/s
Feb 05 2013	3,275,465	10.33%	23,447 GH/s
Jan 23 2013	2,968,775	-8.64%	21,251 GH/s
Jan 08 2013	3,249,550	9.06%	23,261 GH/s
Dec 26 2012	2,979,637	-11.59%	21,329 GH/s
Dec 10 2012	3,370,182	-2.00%	24,125 GH/s
Nov 26 2012	3,438,909	2.08%	24,617 GH/s
Nov 12 2012	3,368,767	1.95%	24,115 GH/s

[ChuckBuck]

Your example is wrong.  You're converting gold bars into a house.  The example would be better had you said, "I gave a guy 4 gold bars hoping that after a year he would return me more than 4 bars."

Now you're using your noggin.

Under no circumstances, will you earn the 4 BTC's that $2599 mining contract will ever yield in a year.

Besides early 2012/2013, difficulty will most likely be in the teens percentage wise, meaning you won't earn back 4 BTC

[grn]

This is your registered address on the corporate registry

15 DEERHILL, WILNECOTE, TAMWORTH, STAFFORDSHIRE, UNITED KINGDOM, B77 4PA



Is this also where your mining farm and manufacturing is based?

[MinerTechnologies]

Please see our address in contact form of our website.

[grn]

Please see our address in contact form of our website.

Is that where your mining farm and manufacturing is based?

[MinerTechnologies]

Yes.

Office:

2 Calico Business Park
Amington Industrial Estate
Tamworth
B77 4DS

[grn]

Is that Hamel House?

[jonnybravo0311]

@johnnybravo

I don't see static anywhere, do you?

Difficulty History

Code:

Date	Difficulty	Change	Hash Rate
Jun 05 2014	11,756,551,917	12.44%	84,156,677 GH/s
May 24 2014	10,455,720,138	18.10%	74,844,960 GH/s
May 12 2014	8,853,416,309	10.66%	63,375,223 GH/s
Apr 29 2014	8,000,872,136	14.64%	57,272,474 GH/s
Apr 17 2014	6,978,842,650	14.04%	49,956,502 GH/s
Apr 05 2014	6,119,726,089	22.23%	43,806,706 GH/s
Mar 24 2014	5,006,860,589	17.80%	35,840,504 GH/s
Mar 13 2014	4,250,217,920	11.39%	30,424,245 GH/s
Feb 28 2014	3,815,723,799	21.92%	27,314,015 GH/s
Feb 17 2014	3,129,573,175	19.39%	22,402,357 GH/s
Feb 05 2014	2,621,404,453	19.49%	18,764,744 GH/s
Jan 24 2014	2,193,847,870	22.59%	15,704,175 GH/s
Jan 13 2014	1,789,546,951	26.16%	12,810,076 GH/s
Jan 02 2014	1,418,481,395	20.12%	10,153,885 GH/s
Dec 21 2013	1,180,923,195	30.01%	8,453,378 GH/s
Dec 10 2013	908,350,862	28.41%	6,502,229 GH/s
Nov 29 2013	707,408,283	16.07%	5,063,826 GH/s
Nov 17 2013	609,482,680	19.29%	4,362,847 GH/s
Nov 05 2013	510,929,738	30.70%	3,657,378 GH/s
Oct 26 2013	390,928,788	46.02%	2,798,377 GH/s
Oct 16 2013	267,731,249	41.45%	1,916,495 GH/s
Oct 06 2013	189,281,249	27.19%	1,354,928 GH/s
Sep 25 2013	148,819,200	32.13%	1,065,289 GH/s
Sep 14 2013	112,628,549	29.56%	806,227 GH/s
Sep 04 2013	86,933,018	32.22%	622,291 GH/s
Aug 24 2013	65,750,060	29.40%	470,657 GH/s
Aug 13 2013	50,810,339	35.88%	363,715 GH/s
Aug 03 2013	37,392,766	19.63%	267,668 GH/s
Jul 22 2013	31,256,961	19.47%	223,746 GH/s
Jul 11 2013	26,162,876	22.63%	187,281 GH/s
Jun 29 2013	21,335,329	10.32%	152,724 GH/s
Jun 16 2013	19,339,258	23.92%	138,436 GH/s
Jun 05 2013	15,605,633	28.41%	111,709 GH/s
May 25 2013	12,153,412	8.64%	86,998 GH/s
May 12 2013	11,187,257	11.03%	80,082 GH/s
Apr 30 2013	10,076,293	12.28%	72,129 GH/s
Apr 17 2013	8,974,296	16.96%	64,241 GH/s
Apr 05 2013	7,673,000	14.59%	54,925 GH/s
Mar 24 2013	6,695,826	38.13%	47,931 GH/s
Mar 14 2013	4,847,647	10.98%	34,701 GH/s
Mar 01 2013	4,367,876	19.63%	31,266 GH/s
Feb 18 2013	3,651,012	11.47%	26,135 GH/s
Feb 05 2013	3,275,465	10.33%	23,447 GH/s
Jan 23 2013	2,968,775	-8.64%	21,251 GH/s
Jan 08 2013	3,249,550	9.06%	23,261 GH/s
Dec 26 2012	2,979,637	-11.59%	21,329 GH/s
Dec 10 2012	3,370,182	-2.00%	24,125 GH/s
Nov 26 2012	3,438,909	2.08%	24,617 GH/s
Nov 12 2012	3,368,767	1.95%	24,115 GH/s

Nope... never once did I state that I believed it would remain static, or that it had.  I simply provided proof that your statement of "under no conditions" was incorrect.  I certainly don't believe it will remain static simply because more hashing power is constantly added to the network.  But, that's back to my statement on risk.  If I were to invest 4BTC in mining gear, I am hopeful that said gear will return me back more than that 4BTC.  If the difficulty increases at ~15%, I won't make it.  If it is 10% I will.  If I invest $2599 on a contract, I am hopeful that at the end of the year, the BTC I have earned can be converted into USD with a value of more than $2599.

Maybe I can explain this in a different way:
I make three investments.  Investment 1 is to purchase 4BTC at $2599.  Investment 2 is to purchase a 1TH/s mining contract for $2599.  Investment 3 is to purchase that same 1TH/s mining contract for 4BTC.
For investment 1, I am hopeful that the price of BTC increases and after a year, I can sell them for profit.
For investment 2, I am hopeful that my contract has earned me enough BTC to sell for more than the $2599 I initially invested.
For investment 3, I am hopeful that my contract has earned me more than the 4BTC.  This one is the "I gave some guy 4 gold bars and hoped he gives me back more than 4 at the end."

One needs to evaluate the risks and make a choice.  Your assessment, if I read it correctly, is that investment 3 is a fool's errand.  Others might state, "Gee, I don't think BTC is going to see >10% increases from this point forward, so let's go with investment 3."

If you've spent time going through my posts throughout the forums here, you'll know that I have invested in hardware.  I made that decision for two reasons.  First, is because I believe in BTC, and I wish to contribute to its success.  I mine, and I do so on p2pool.  The second reason, and one that is not so altruistic, is that I hope to make a profit while supporting BTC.

My personal opinion is that cloud hashing is slanted in favor of the company providing the hosting.  As someone else wrote in another post, "Why would they sell you $1 for $0.75?" Companies providing cloud hosting have evaluated the risks/rewards and it is their stance that they will make more by selling hashing power to you and me than they would just hashing for themselves.