I'm having some doubts about whether it's ethical to make money off of Bitcoin

[spazzdla]

Tulips die/rot, bitcoins do not.
Tulips can be grown to inifinit, bitcoins can not.
You cannot carry your entire wealth in tulips over a criminal boarder without be detected, you can with BTC.
You can not send tulips accross the world in seconds for 5cents, you can with BTC.

[1715189975]

1715189975

[1715189975]

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[1715189975]

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[zimmah]

Bitcoin is more ethical than fiat. Also people have no choice about using fiat or not, bitcoin finaly gives people choice.

If they lies money because they never bothered to even buy 0.01 bitcoin, it's their loss. Not your problem they are too dumb to understand the potential.

[Beliathon]

Bitcoin is more ethical than fiat. Also people have no choice about using fiat or not, bitcoin finaly gives people choice.

QFT, Bitcoin reclaims power for the people.

[commandrix]

Hey. If you were one of those lucky people who bought Bitcoin when a BTC cost about five cents, you have absolutely nothing to feel bad about. It's just the market system at work. If you're a scammer, sure, you'll probably need a deep dark hole to hide from everybody who is going to come after you. But if you're an honest business person who takes Bitcoin as payment, there is nothing wrong with that.

[jbreher]

What is with all the fud stuff lately?

_Lately_?

::sigh:: You get used to it.

[pummle]

Am I wrong in thinking Bitcoin is just a tulip bulb scenario in which an ever-increasing number of new investors is required to keep up the hype, and once there are no more greater fools left, it will crash and I will be rich at the expense of many people out there?

I mean, it's not like I'm investing in something that provides a real value to people. It's not like buying land and charging someone rent, or cooking a meal and setting it down in front of someone at a restaurant.

Yes, I know there is a tiny bit of value in what bitcoin offers that the old systems don't, but even that can only be realized in a best-case scenario (price stabilizes for years on end), which is highly unlikely to happen.

Tell me why I'm wrong and why I shouldn't feel bad for making a lot of money off of BTC.

You should not feel bad about making money off bitcoins. You are investing into the future of money, and so you deserve to earn something for taking that risk.

Think of bitcoins not so much as a way to make money as a way to save money. You investing money into bitcoin allows other people who need money now to take money out as they sell the bitcoins to you. Later, when you need the money for something, there will be other people who want to put money in and they will trade for your bitcoins.

[BADecker]

If ANYBODY ever feels that using Bitcoin is in some way unethical, spend the hour and a half that it takes to listen to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l428i3WAkuU. You will see that the whole world of BANKING, etc., has screwed ALL of us, ROYALLY, for the last roughly 400 years. If you get all choked up about what you hear in this video, do the research, and you will find out that it is TRUE. Then come back here and cry about ethics some more.

You might want to include in your video watching, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WUzUbHAzus, which is a follow up, sort of.

Now, I'm not saying that any of the stuff in these two videos is going to do anything for your lifestyle. Use it at your own risk. But the thing that these videos does is to SHOW US WHAT HAS HAPPENED, WHAT IS HAPPENING, AND HOW THE CROOKS IN THE BANKING AND GOVERNMENTAL INDUSTRIES - yes, government is an industry - ARE NOT EVEN HONORING THEIR OWN LAWS WHEN WE PICK THEM UP AND USE THEM (the laws).

In the face of all this, Bitcoin might not stand a chance! But Bitcoin could, also, wind up being the thing that gets the SYSTEM in its Achilles heal. Wake up to life! Get of the ethical, cry-baby trip about Bitcoin.

[Justin00]

this thread real ?
i couldnt get past the title ?
if you arent stealing or hurting anyone, whats the problem ? I am sure the churchs and co will be accepting btc soon :p
passing the collectng plate around, with a QR code

sorry don't mean to offend any of our religious bitcoiners, not that my comment was offending, but just incase

[Paleus]

Ask not how to acquire more money, but how to acquire more bitcoin. -- Satoshi Nakamoto

[nwfella]

You mean like a ponzi or pyramid scheme?  Supply and demand drives the price.  If all buy and sell stopped at one point in time the price will remain frozen.  But if all started selling at one time, the price plummets.  The rawest form of supply/demand economics there is.  Are there winners and losers?  Of course, depending on how you define "winning" and "losing".

i think his main concern for bitcoin is that it is neither a physical object and isn't backed by anything tangible or real.

can't we say the same about buying stock though?

And gold.  What would be the realistic price of gold if it was valued only by it's "tangible worth" ( jewelry and electronics) ?

If gold ever did get valued at it's actual usefulness or "tangible worth" I strongly suspect it would be worth far less than silver.

[fendlestick]

Buying anything is risky. Even holding dollars is a losing proposition. People seem to think risk is somehow unique to bit coin.

On a broader thesis, life itself is risky. Anything you do has inherent risk, its just whether the risk justifies the reward.

Back on topic, I don't see how this is any different from making money on the forex market. For you to make money, some poor sod will have his currency devaluated compared to yours. It's just a fact of life, you might as well try and be sad about the fact that the world is inherently unfair. Sure, you try and do your bit, but you can hardly expect to change the whole world.

Competition is what makes us a successful species. There will always be winners and losers and I think that is okay, even preferred.

Maybe the OP should consider donating some money to charity if he profited a lot off of bitcoin. That'll help clear your conscience. Although I don't really see anything inherently wrong with buying and selling BTC.

Just don't give the money to charities that invest in alcohol, firearms and tobacco, like Comic Relief.

[Hippie Tech]

Confessions of a Rockefeller - Aaron Russo

http://youtu.be/0HzeRabP6cQ

These same people created Bitcoin. It is nothing more than a false hope/flag that will lead us into the cashless age.

[BADecker]

Confessions of a Rockefeller - Aaron Russo

http://youtu.be/0HzeRabP6cQ

These same people created Bitcoin. It is nothing more than a flase hope/flag that will lead us into the cashless age.

And this brings us to Bilderberg. I think when it comes right down to it, we will find that Satoshi was a Bilderberg creation - a total fabrication - probably done by one of the lesser Bilderberg families, that didn't like the way the major Bilderberg players were directing the world. They may have even had approval from Builderberg, as a backup in the event that Bilderberg plans failed. Or they may have been challenged by "reigning" Builderberg families, like, "Go ahead and try it. It won't succeed." Of course, they might have done Bitcoin in total secrecy.

Anyway, we are a long way from "proving" Bitcoin one way or another. Sure, it has had its successes. But it is a long way from even starting to challenge the fiats of the banking system.

Do you want to get into true ethics? Become like Elijah in the Old Testament. Live out in the wilds. Make no agreements with any man (or woman), especially regarding property and money. And read the Bible constantly until you have a correct sense about how to spread the Gospel among any people you might come across. But if you aren't going to do the Elijah bit, you are breaking ethics all the time, simply by living in society.

Use Bitcoin. There is less of an ethical violation than when using fiats. The Queen of England is the beneficiary of the Social Security System.

[ShakyhandsBTCer]

You mean like a ponzi or pyramid scheme?  Supply and demand drives the price.  If all buy and sell stopped at one point in time the price will remain frozen.  But if all started selling at one time, the price plummets.  The rawest form of supply/demand economics there is.  Are there winners and losers?  Of course, depending on how you define "winning" and "losing".

i think his main concern for bitcoin is that it is neither a physical object and isn't backed by anything tangible or real.

can't we say the same about buying stock though?

And gold.  What would be the realistic price of gold if it was valued only by it's "tangible worth" ( jewelry and electronics) ?

If gold ever did get valued at it's actual usefulness or "tangible worth" I strongly suspect it would be worth far less than silver.

It would likely not be worth less then silver if silver was also valued at it's "tangible worth" as gold is more efficient and has more uses then silver.

Investments like gold and silver will never will never be valued at their "tangible worth" because there are other legitimate uses for them (store of value, hedge against inflation).

[Hippie Tech]

Confessions of a Rockefeller - Aaron Russo

http://youtu.be/0HzeRabP6cQ

These same people created Bitcoin. It is nothing more than a false hope/flag that will lead us into the cashless age.

And this brings us to Bilderberg. I think when it comes right down to it, we will find that Satoshi was a Bilderberg creation - a total fabrication - probably done by one of the lesser Bilderberg families, that didn't like the way the major Bilderberg players were directing the world. They may have even had approval from Builderberg, as a backup in the event that Bilderberg plans failed. Or they may have been challenged by "reigning" Builderberg families, like, "Go ahead and try it. It won't succeed." Of course, they might have done Bitcoin in total secrecy.

Anyway, we are a long way from "proving" Bitcoin one way or another. Sure, it has had its successes. But it is a long way from even starting to challenge the fiats of the banking system.

Do you want to get into true ethics? Become like Elijah in the Old Testament. Live out in the wilds. Make no agreements with any man (or woman), especially regarding property and money. And read the Bible constantly until you have a correct sense about how to spread the Gospel among any people you might come across. But if you aren't going to do the Elijah bit, you are breaking ethics all the time, simply by living in society.

Use Bitcoin. There is less of an ethical violation than when using fiats. The Queen of England is the beneficiary of the Social Security System.

Whats there not to like about those inbred genocidal types ?




ANYTHING and EVERYTHING related to our current governmental and economic realities is UNETHICAL.

@ all
How many will your vote, buying power and taxes, enslave and bomb today ?

[cinnamon_carter]

no one owes you proof of anything

you can as an individual decide what is and is not ethical

bitcoin will carry on without you, me or any individual, like it or not

Am I wrong in thinking Bitcoin is just a tulip bulb scenario in which an ever-increasing number of new investors is required to keep up the hype, and once there are no more greater fools left, it will crash and I will be rich at the expense of many people out there?

I mean, it's not like I'm investing in something that provides a real value to people. It's not like buying land and charging someone rent, or cooking a meal and setting it down in front of someone at a restaurant.

Yes, I know there is a tiny bit of value in what bitcoin offers that the old systems don't, but even that can only be realized in a best-case scenario (price stabilizes for years on end), which is highly unlikely to happen.

Tell me why I'm wrong and why I shouldn't feel bad for making a lot of money off of BTC.

[Harley997]

Am I wrong in thinking Bitcoin is just a tulip bulb scenario in which an ever-increasing number of new investors is required to keep up the hype, and once there are no more greater fools left, it will crash and I will be rich at the expense of many people out there?

I mean, it's not like I'm investing in something that provides a real value to people. It's not like buying land and charging someone rent, or cooking a meal and setting it down in front of someone at a restaurant.

Yes, I know there is a tiny bit of value in what bitcoin offers that the old systems don't, but even that can only be realized in a best-case scenario (price stabilizes for years on end), which is highly unlikely to happen.

Tell me why I'm wrong and why I shouldn't feel bad for making a lot of money off of BTC.

You should not feel bad about making money off bitcoins. You are investing into the future of money, and so you deserve to earn something for taking that risk.

Think of bitcoins not so much as a way to make money as a way to save money. You investing money into bitcoin allows other people who need money now to take money out as they sell the bitcoins to you. Later, when you need the money for something, there will be other people who want to put money in and they will trade for your bitcoins.

Making money off of bitcoin is not any different then making money off of any other investment.

[VeroPossumus]

Wow, there are people in this world who still worry about ethics.
With Bitcoin i shouldn't be and issue. Like its said before, youre not killing or stealing.

[halfawake]

I mean, it's not like I'm investing in something that provides a real value to people. It's not like buying land and charging someone rent, or cooking a meal and setting it down in front of someone at a restaurant.

Yes, I know there is a tiny bit of value in what bitcoin offers that the old systems don't, but even that can only be realized in a best-case scenario (price stabilizes for years on end), which is highly unlikely to happen.

If you really think Bitcoin provides no real value to people, consider this.  I am seriously thinking of setting up a small business based entirely on bitcoin transactions.  Before learning about Bitcoin, I never would have bothered.  Yes, it's true that setting up a secure system for offline storage of bitcoins is a bit of a headache.  But it has some real, significant advantages, especially if you use something as solid as Armory.  Done properly, it only has to be done once, and so long as your offline computer is physically secure, you never have to worry about losing your bitcoins.

In my opinion, that's a huge, significant value that bitcoin provides.  And services like Coinbase / bitpay negate your concern about the price stabilizing for years, I could realize these benefits immediately without having to worry about the exchange rate by using either of these services.  I'm a strong believer of the long term viability of bitcoins, so I'd keep as large a portion of the income of the site in bitcoins as I could, but would keep enough in fiat to pay the bills.

The alternative in the traditional financial world is handling credit card payments.  In the United States, this means PCI Compliance.  If you're a small business, ideally it means not ever storing the customers' credit card numbers in anything beyond memory so they won't be at risk of being hacked and the customer data stolen.  It also means having to pay the 2 - 3% cut that the credit cad processors all take out of payments, instead of the $0.10 that bitcoin transactions cost, or 1% that Coinbase charges.

There are websites like Coinbase that make managing this process simple enough that I'm pretty confident that I could do it myself without any help, except maybe in the legal arena.  I'd be surprised if that was the case for credit card processing, or if it would be possible to do on my own, I'd wager that it'd cost more to setup, and take quite a bit longer. 

[tvbcof]

Am I wrong in thinking Bitcoin is just a tulip bulb scenario in which an ever-increasing number of new investors is required to keep up the hype, and once there are no more greater fools left, it will crash and I will be rich at the expense of many people out there?

I mean, it's not like I'm investing in something that provides a real value to people. It's not like buying land and charging someone rent, or cooking a meal and setting it down in front of someone at a restaurant.

Yes, I know there is a tiny bit of value in what bitcoin offers that the old systems don't, but even that can only be realized in a best-case scenario (price stabilizes for years on end), which is highly unlikely to happen.

Tell me why I'm wrong and why I shouldn't feel bad for making a lot of money off of BTC.

On balance, Bitcoiners are about the ugliest and most ethically challenged people around.  (It should go without saying that there are exceptions of course.)  Many of the most significant reasons to get into Bitcoin are unsavory (to deal with stolen loot, cheat on taxes, etc.)  A large number of Bitcoiner's would have no qualms about stealing from you directly.  The simple fact that one person put's another person's money into his own pocket is proof enough that the thief has some innate superiority and deserves to have the money.  It's a dog-eat-dog world and it's proper and correct that the most ruthless and capable rise to the top.  Fuck the rest.

Don't worry about making money off these people.  The capital infusions are probably most significant from venture capitalists at this point anyway and they've got plenty of $$$ to give away.  Donate some funds to a worthwhile charity if it bothers you.