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Author Topic: How do we prevent money laundering and assasinations?  (Read 16049 times)
cypherdoc
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April 24, 2011, 03:13:15 PM
 #21

How long before we will see this Jim Bell's idea http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_market implemented with bitcoins? Smiley

Damn, if we had a prediction market we would know. I wonder when we'll have a predication market?

MtGox is predicting astounding success for BTC.
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cypherdoc
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April 24, 2011, 03:29:11 PM
 #22

i would like to use this thread to develop ideas about how this activity might be prevented.  i don't want to hear comments about how it is inevitable, can't stop it, its gonna happen no matter what type comments that are often accompanied by a veneer of glee.  this is serious business and i have BTC to protect; so i'd like to hear productive ideas about how this can be accomplished. 

Forum members, it would be helpful to get back to cypherdoc's original intent of this thread (see above and again here:)
so i'd like to hear productive ideas about how this can be accomplished.

Here are my ideas to start with:
(1) Get all illegal content off this forum. This is already in progress, at least for (i) stuff that is illegal everywhere, and (ii) stuff that is illegal in most jurisdictions. People who want to talk about those things can do this somwhwere else, outside of bitcoin.org

(2) A step further would be to publically announce on the homepage of bitcoin.org that bitoins have been created as innovation in the payment / store of value area and that the owners of bitcon.org are against illegal abuse. Of course, as with cash, some individuals may use bitcoins for other things, but bitcoin.org does not endorse this in any way and even undertakes all possible steps to avoid this on this website

(3) Continue driving bitcoin's legal use for low fee payments, legitimate businesses, start-ups, investments, etc.

Finally something productive.  i like #2 especially.  we should start with that.  i know the anarchists on this site object to any form of censorship or rule making.  But they have to realize that if BTC is to work we have to at least initially play within game; the game being somewhat of a civilized society with rules/laws.  anarchists know the network itself is composed of rules, laws, math, logic, fairness determined by Satoshi.  w/o those concepts the network would fail and thus BTC adoption by the masses which is what none of us want.  i have my own business; i have to follow the rules/laws of paying workmans comp, paying SS taxes, Medicare taxes, income/corporate taxes and a host of other regulations.  i disagree with most of these gov't impositions but have to comply otherwise my successful business fails.  thats life.  as much as BTC represents freedom, it shouldn't allow anarchy.
 
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April 24, 2011, 03:52:21 PM
 #23

I'll give my thumbs-up to all three suggestions.  Thanks S3052.

Although it was implied in the suggestions, it wasn't explicitly stated that we should get all illegal content off the wiki as well as the forum.  That should be done as well.
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April 24, 2011, 03:52:38 PM
 #24

I predict they will use bitcoin in one of the grand theft auto games Smiley
Cryptoman
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April 24, 2011, 03:59:22 PM
 #25

I'm in favor of banning discussion on this site of trade in things which are illegal in the majority of industrialized countries, if for no reason other than protecting the site itself.  In addition, someone could create a really flashy consumer and merchant oriented site that new users could be steered towards, leaving this site for development and philosophical discussions.  

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April 24, 2011, 04:13:17 PM
 #26

In addition, someone could create a really flashy consumer and merchant oriented site that new users could be steered towards, leaving this site for development and philosophical discussions.  

I don't know. As long as people correctly put their post in marketplace, I kind of like how this forum has post for buy/sell/trades. Of course, having multiple sites is good, I'm just not sure I'd get rid of marketplace.

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kiba
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April 24, 2011, 04:25:02 PM
 #27

I guess you'll have to ban my site since it have articles on agorism and stuff like that. I am willing to accept a rebuttal on the articles though.  Wink

I even have a person writing an article on bitcoin Poker.

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April 24, 2011, 04:35:50 PM
 #28

I personally wouldn't ban anything other than the obvious: payments for theft/violence/crime against people -there is a clear victim without much thought.

The rest is left to the consumer to decide if it's appropriate for their jurisdiction. I don't think we want this place to start policing everything.

For example: the wiki lists marijuana. There are places where the possession is tolerated/legal. The buyer determines if they are breaking the law, not the wiki. It would get way too hard for something as international as Bitcoin. Who's laws would you use?

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deadlizard
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April 24, 2011, 04:49:44 PM
 #29

Who's laws would you use?
Murphy's law  Wink

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April 24, 2011, 04:55:54 PM
 #30

I personally wouldn't ban anything other than the obvious: payments for theft/violence/crime against people -there is a clear victim without much thought.

The rest is left to the consumer to decide if it's appropriate for their jurisdiction. I don't think we want this place to start policing everything.

For example: the wiki lists marijuana. There are places where the possession is tolerated/legal. The buyer determines if they are breaking the law, not the wiki. It would get way too hard for something as international as Bitcoin. Who's laws would you use?

Just put a legal disclaimer on the wiki.

"These drugs may be legal or not in your jurisdiction. It is up to you to determine their legality. "

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April 24, 2011, 05:18:57 PM
 #31

This thread is absolutely pointless, and self incriminating.
It's like bitcoin carrying the original sin of being a disruptive technology.
I don't see Smith & Wesson or Glock with such a disclaimer on their sites.

Edited : I don´t see also Citibank making a money laundering disclaimer on it's site
http://www.workers.org/ww/2004/citibank0930.php


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April 24, 2011, 05:22:16 PM
 #32

This makes no sense. Responsibility is one the users, not the tool.

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April 24, 2011, 05:42:07 PM
 #33

This makes no sense. Responsibility is one the users, not the tool.

+1
deadlizard
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April 24, 2011, 05:53:57 PM
 #34

This makes no sense. Responsibility is one the users, not the tool.
While this is certainly true, there are people with (the) guns (of the state) that think otherwise.
Which makes the situation much more complicated than any of us would like.

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Cusipzzz
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April 24, 2011, 06:46:17 PM
 #35

first they come for the assassinations, then they come for the pron, then they come for me.

Don't get caught up in the hype. Bitcoin is a tool. Many murders have been committed with baseball bats. Yet we can freely talk about baseball bats.

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April 24, 2011, 07:30:47 PM
 #36

first they come for the assassinations, then they come for the pron, then they come for me.

Don't get caught up in the hype. Bitcoin is a tool. Many murders have been committed with baseball bats. Yet we can freely talk about baseball bats.

Baseball bat bought with USD from a Visa no doubt.

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April 24, 2011, 07:48:45 PM
 #37

I think the point is, if the powers that be want to shut down bitcoin, they will find an excuse to shut down bitcoin. Doesn't matter how squeaky clean we are. What we want to do is give them incentive to participate in bitcoin rather then shut it down. Above all else, Republicans don't want to die poor.

What we need are lobbyists. Maybe make campaign contributions with bitcoins somehow. Give them a vested interest in the network.
cypherdoc
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April 24, 2011, 08:14:20 PM
 #38

I guess you'll have to ban my site since it have articles on agorism and stuff like that. I am willing to accept a rebuttal on the articles though.  Wink

I even have a person writing an article on bitcoin Poker.

i don't know much about agorism but a quick scan of the Wiki page didn't invoke any negative sentiments on my part.  this may come down to what ones goals for BTC are. if agorists want to see an underground economy based on BTC then i suppose they would support drugs and money laundering.  i however would like BTC to become more mainstream and used and trusted by the average American.  i would like to see BTC become a lever to force the control of USD out of the hands of the Fed and give it back to the American ppl where it belongs.  so i'm not necessarily against the USD per say.  i'm against hows its being manipulated by the money changer elite.  i prefer order, not mad max.  i prefer stable currency, not boom bust cycles. 
kiba
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April 24, 2011, 08:15:12 PM
 #39

I think the point is, if the powers that be want to shut down bitcoin, they will find an excuse to shut down bitcoin. Doesn't matter how squeaky clean we are. What we want to do is give them incentive to participate in bitcoin rather then shut it down. Above all else, Republicans don't want to die poor.

What we need are lobbyists. Maybe make campaign contributions with bitcoins somehow. Give them a vested interest in the network.

The best way to fight them? Don't die.

If bitcoin don't die, we win, period. The only question is how much of the bitcoin community is willing to do bitcoin in the face of persecution.

I don't know how I am going to act when that time come.

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April 24, 2011, 08:21:46 PM
 #40

I think the point is, if the powers that be want to shut down bitcoin, they will find an excuse to shut down bitcoin. Doesn't matter how squeaky clean we are. What we want to do is give them incentive to participate in bitcoin rather then shut it down. Above all else, Republicans don't want to die poor.

What we need are lobbyists. Maybe make campaign contributions with bitcoins somehow. Give them a vested interest in the network.

I see where the people that are afraid of a governmental shut down are coming from. If they can that is. Did Wikileaks go down? No, and yet it is a non profit group. What could they do to a whole economy then? Not to mention they'd have to track people down on Tor... or completely shut it down, which they still haven't done, given all the outstanding reasons for it.

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