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Author Topic: NXT/NEM or Monero/Bytecoin?  (Read 4883 times)
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July 18, 2014, 01:11:34 AM
 #61

I'm really looking forward to some fleshing out in the NEM department.

POW is fascinating, and has been essential to bitcoin's success. But POS makes much more sense, now that the crypto currency environment has matured significantly. I don't understand why nobody has tried a biometric offer yet, what with the iPhone's print scanner. Probably because that would be so easily exploited, besides the work involved.
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July 18, 2014, 06:49:45 AM
 #62

...
NXT is a scam. No matter how you do it, distributing coins via PoS is unfair and will always be unfair. Those who get in on the "IPO" are the ones who always come out richer.
...
lets be honest.

PoS is fair - for miners is unfair for sure... not for investors and users.

POS is different economy and philosophy you can't compare like that.

Good POS volume shows when coin were good distributed or not...
POW (80% premine bytecoin 1st crypto note ) have 10k $ daily volume
and POS Blackcoin no premine have 70k$-300k$ during last month
is better than NXT all the time Volume/Coinmarketcap ...
NXT is not scam - is different kind of distribution and Volume vs coinmarket cap is rising so distribution is increasing...

I wait NEM Volume/Coinmarketcap ... in future...

POW and BTC now when BIG specialized farms mine BTC also have controversial centralized coin distribution...
...you won't never have perfect system no in Monero or NEM or NXT or BC or PPC.

PS: today REAL use have only BTC for sure... rest is just for speculations.
from pump to pump... volume up.

If i have to invest NEW win for me ( good distribution + core devs who created protocol are with NEM )

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July 18, 2014, 06:59:22 AM
 #63

you open a post where you attracted two out of 4 coins to be POS.

of course they will cry POS > POW.

it's hilarious



Here is a simple very basic math.

POS coin = only way to get them is by buying some one else bag. only one limited gateway to enter the network

POW coin = two ways. buying some one else bag or mining. two gateways to enter the network

To me, with POW having more gateways to enter the network already beats POS at more option to distribute the coin


Why POW mining is still the best.

the moment a POW coin blows up miners from other coins start mining it (even more people join the distributive network)

Even though asic just came out for scrypt. Scrypt had a long run with fair mining. This means that if person A spent $2000 to build a mining rig and  person B spent $2000 to build a mining rig, they both would have the almost the same mining power/coin. Hence if you really want to join the coin all you had to do is simply build a mining rig and join the distribution. it was a fair distribution hence why a lot of people choose the mining route for litecoin , dogecoin and all the recent new scrypt coins circa December up until may.

Easy,trust-less gateway to join the crypto world by mining. POW made that. POS coins even at this day i have to own BTCs to buy POS coins. AKA all the new people are out of this category. POS coin have to depend to convince bitcoin holders to buy their bags and as i said are limited to people already in the crypto community. Bitcoin is still new and new people have hard time just buying BTC/FIAT. they have to look online. Look to find the closest exchange, which in turn ends up being in some shady country. They have to send FIAT and their personal info and pray to god two weeks later they receive a notification that a new account with the amount of bitcoin is ready. Can you see a regular joe do this easy ? can you picture some one in bumble fuck trying to buy bitcoin? Now can you picture the same person ordering a mining parts from secure trusted electronic sites such as newegg.com? can you picture it them choosing the POW path? ordering a mining rig and receiving it with in few days?  can you picture them mining and slowly building up Bits?  no need to trust sketchy exchanges or look for some one to sell them btcs on localbitcoin.

again there is tons of other POW algos now trying to market the "asic resistant" like scrypt did but Asic is not the end of the scrypt. not yet. only now for at beginning, for a period of 2-3 months then it will settle down and be fair. here is what i mean:

as we stand , with $2000 you can buy Gpus and mine with 3-4/mhs or buy Asic and mine 20-30 mh/s. This is what asic has brought to the table right now. Unbalance. before $2000 worth of minig rig was pumping up almost the same hashpower. Now there is a huge unbalance. but after a few months Asic will start becoming more popular and will loose value as competition and quantity>demand. then $2000 will buy you almost the same hash power and it will be back to being a fair.

kinda like people are still mining bitcoin. asic were a bad thing at first as they created unbalance but now is fair game. $2000 worth of bitcoin mining rig will give out almost the same from any combination of rigs you build.



So POS? it has the green efficiency but it lacks fair distributions. and its closed looped. with a minign rig i could mine around join all kinds of POW coins. with POS i am stuck to the one coin i bought.

no thanks jef
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July 18, 2014, 07:03:44 AM
 #64

...
POS coin = only way to get them is by buying some one else bag. only one limited gateway to enter the network

POW coin = two ways. buying some one else bag or mining. two gateways to enter the network
....

POS coin can be mined indirectly too by any alt mining POOL like coinking ,blackcoinpool...


...
So POS? it has the green efficiency but it lacks fair distributions. and its closed looped. ...

Early POW miners allso have 10000+ BTC mined with simple laptops...
you forgot about pizza guy and 10 000BTC.

POW is preaty similar here in proportional distribution...Early movers WIN.
try now mine 10 000 BTC for pizza

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July 18, 2014, 07:05:07 AM
 #65

You can mine NXT indirectly at http://hashrate.org if you're interested.
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July 18, 2014, 07:07:19 AM
 #66

You can mine NXT indirectly at http://hashrate.org if you're interested.

ironically they depend for POW coins to do this.
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July 18, 2014, 07:09:13 AM
 #67

You can mine NXT indirectly at http://hashrate.org if you're interested.

ironically they depend for POW coins to do this.

Nothing wrong with that.
NXT was bootstrapped with Bitcoins, it's generation 2.0, can't have generation 2.0 without generation 1.0, can you? Smiley
It doesn't mean than NXT needs PoW to exist, it just means miners can use their hardware to get NXTs same way they get PoW coins.
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July 18, 2014, 07:10:28 AM
 #68

You can mine NXT indirectly at http://hashrate.org if you're interested.

ironically they depend for POW coins to do this.

But how many people were minig Doge for LTC because of profitability ?
How many was minig LTC for getting BTC ?
many...
Both economies works similar here you took most profitable way...
you mine not for spending coin but mostly for selling bag for $$ next coming people.

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July 18, 2014, 07:11:02 AM
 #69

...
POS coin = only way to get them is by buying some one else bag. only one limited gateway to enter the network

POW coin = two ways. buying some one else bag or mining. two gateways to enter the network
....

POS coin can be mined indirectly too by any alt mining POOL like coinking ,blackcoinpool...


...
So POS? it has the green efficiency but it lacks fair distributions. and its closed looped. ...

Early POW miners allso have 10000+ BTC mined with simple laptops...
you forgot about pizza guy and 10 000BTC.

POW is preaty similar here in proportional distribution...Early movers WIN.
try now mine 10 000 BTC for pizza

your missing the point. POW coin as long as it miniable it keeps having one more group of people more then pos coins. the miners.


as far as earlyminers/insta mining that equivalent to = early investor or for Nxt case bad IPO distribution.
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July 18, 2014, 07:20:52 AM
 #70

....
POW is preaty similar here in proportional distribution...Early movers WIN.
try now mine 10 000 BTC for pizza
your missing the point. POW coin as long as it miniable it keeps having one more group of people more then pos coins. the miners.
as far as earlyminers/insta mining that equivalent to = early investor or for Nxt case bad IPO distribution.

Yea but that laptop which mined 10 000 BTC in week before today can mine 0,00001day BTC...


While in POS to end eternity you mine eg 1% like with BC,PPC...you get proportional reward for whole life..
in BTC your reward is dropping.

In POW and POS early mover have advantage.

POS minig is fair for whole eternity always 1% early or later...
POW minig reward is dropping over time...

There is no perfect system.

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July 18, 2014, 07:20:55 AM
 #71

You can mine NXT indirectly at http://hashrate.org if you're interested.

ironically they depend for POW coins to do this.

Nothing wrong with that.
NXT was bootstrapped with Bitcoins, it's generation 2.0, can't have generation 2.0 without generation 1.0, can you? Smiley
It doesn't mean than NXT needs PoW to exist, it just means miners can use their hardware to get NXTs same way they get PoW coins.

its fundamental wrong. because they get to know about pow coins. and you will eventually loose miners because they will start to see that they can start mining some other coin , outside this pool for better profit. and hit jack pot and move over to that coin

ie:
nxt miner. mining multipool. eventually payout is bad. searches around and sees that is most profitable to mine new coin at lunch. so decided to mine dark coin. mines dark coin. get lucky and mines a nice chunk. dark coin blows up. doesn't sell the dark coin to get nxt but hold to it dear. now more interested in dark coin.   

see. the above path , while possibly not %100 accurate it still shows that there is a small percentage that such event can happen and slowly loose your miners/investors

the other crucial think i forgot about the miners is that a miner always have to be alert. alwyas has to check on his mining rig and always had to keep updating with the coins community. this couases the miners of one coin to form a bortherhood like bond. at the same times the interaction with the community keeps the coin healthy. while with POS the communities are slower. the on the topic of conversation is the trading volume. its a snooze fest
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July 18, 2014, 07:24:53 AM
 #72

You can mine NXT indirectly at http://hashrate.org if you're interested.

ironically they depend for POW coins to do this.

Nothing wrong with that.
NXT was bootstrapped with Bitcoins, it's generation 2.0, can't have generation 2.0 without generation 1.0, can you? Smiley
It doesn't mean than NXT needs PoW to exist, it just means miners can use their hardware to get NXTs same way they get PoW coins.

its fundamental wrong. because they get to know about pow coins. and you will eventually loose miners because they will start to see that they can start mining some other coin , outside this pool for better profit. and hit jack pot and move over to that coin

ie:
nxt miner. mining multipool. eventually payout is bad. searches around and sees that is most profitable to mine new coin at lunch. so decided to mine dark coin. mines dark coin. get lucky and mines a nice chunk. dark coin blows up. doesn't sell the dark coin to get nxt but hold to it dear. now more interested in dark coin.   

see. the above path , while possibly not %100 accurate it still shows that there is a small percentage that such event can happen and slowly loose your miners/investors

the other crucial think i forgot about the miners is that a miner always have to be alert. alwyas has to check on his mining rig and always had to keep updating with the coins community. this couases the miners of one coin to form a bortherhood like bond. at the same times the interaction with the community keeps the coin healthy. while with POS the communities are slower. the on the topic of conversation is the trading volume. its a snooze fest

hashrate.org was set up to help miners with hardware get NXT coins automatically without having to worry about selling coins by themselves, watching exchange rates, etc. if they choose to go to another pool, that's fine, NXT will survive just fine. basically, hashrate.org is the same as any multipool with the same features, except it pays in NXTs, not in Bitcoins. What's fundamentally wrong with that? it's a free market Smiley
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July 18, 2014, 07:26:10 AM
 #73

...while with POS the communities are slower. ...

LOL what did LTC in last year ?

What did NXT,BC... much more while miners are focus on mine price POS communities are building kingdoms and develop to expand.
That is mainly different.

POS coin are building developing much faster than any POW one ( except BTC )...
POS coin have MORE motivation to do it than miners...

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July 18, 2014, 07:31:00 AM
 #74

You can mine NXT indirectly at http://hashrate.org if you're interested.

ironically they depend for POW coins to do this.

Nothing wrong with that.
NXT was bootstrapped with Bitcoins, it's generation 2.0, can't have generation 2.0 without generation 1.0, can you? Smiley
It doesn't mean than NXT needs PoW to exist, it just means miners can use their hardware to get NXTs same way they get PoW coins.

its fundamental wrong. because they get to know about pow coins. and you will eventually loose miners because they will start to see that they can start mining some other coin , outside this pool for better profit. and hit jack pot and move over to that coin

ie:
nxt miner. mining multipool. eventually payout is bad. searches around and sees that is most profitable to mine new coin at lunch. so decided to mine dark coin. mines dark coin. get lucky and mines a nice chunk. dark coin blows up. doesn't sell the dark coin to get nxt but hold to it dear. now more interested in dark coin.  

see. the above path , while possibly not %100 accurate it still shows that there is a small percentage that such event can happen and slowly loose your miners/investors

the other crucial think i forgot about the miners is that a miner always have to be alert. alwyas has to check on his mining rig and always had to keep updating with the coins community. this couases the miners of one coin to form a bortherhood like bond. at the same times the interaction with the community keeps the coin healthy. while with POS the communities are slower. the on the topic of conversation is the trading volume. its a snooze fest

hashrate.org was set up to help miners with hardware get NXT coins automatically without having to worry about selling coins by themselves, watching exchange rates, etc. if they choose to go to another pool, that's fine, NXT will survive just fine. basically, hashrate.org is the same as any multipool with the same features, except it pays in NXTs, not in Bitcoins. What's fundamentally wrong with that? it's a free market Smiley

hey man. just having a chit chat with you on the topic. we can go deeper or leave it as it is.

truth the mater is that POW is still a better distribution method. Asics and rent-a-rig farms are making it more centralized sure. but it still the best method. Sorry POS

to me the number one reason is the trustless way a noob can start owning bits buy mining.

What next and any other PURE POS coins should do is create a sidechain/color coin in POW. So then any one, any where can start mining this POW token and be able to trade it for the POS  Wink  
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July 18, 2014, 07:34:58 AM
 #75

Why is 3000 or 5000 or even 10000 stakeholder of NEM better than 70 in NXT. Nothing is fair when we talking about money. Money need to be transparent not fair. Is Bitcoin unfair because of his creator? Satoshi fortune is around 1M Bitcoins, maybe more.

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July 18, 2014, 07:36:37 AM
 #76

...while with POS the communities are slower. ...

LOL what did LTC in last year ?

What did NXT,BC... much more while miners are focus on mine price POS communities are building kingdoms and develop to expand.
That is mainly different.

POS coin are building developing much faster than any POW one ( except BTC )...
POS coin have MORE motivation to do it than miners...

calm your titties. i am not here to tell you which coin is better.

i gave you more then three points how a POW coins bring in more new people then a POS coin.

just wanted to share my thought why POW is better then POS. you guy started praising POS.
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July 18, 2014, 07:36:48 AM
 #77

Why is 3000 or 5000 or even 10000 stakeholder of NEM better than 70 in NXT. Nothing is fair when we talking about money. Money need to be transparent not fair. Is Bitcoin unfair because of his creator? Satoshi fortune is around 1M Bitcoins, maybe more.

That's been my primary qualm with NEM from the start -- 3000 vs. 73 is meaningless.

NEM's PoI can be significant. 3000 initial stakeholders is not.

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July 18, 2014, 07:40:45 AM
 #78

hey man. just having a chit chat with you on the topic. we can go deeper or leave it as it is.

truth the mater is that POW is still a better distribution method. Asics and rent-a-rig farms are making it more centralized sure. but it still the best method. Sorry POS

to me the number one reason is the trustless way a noob can start owning bits buy mining.

What next and any other PURE POS coins should do is create a sidechain/color coin in POW. So then any one, any where can start mining this POW token and be able to trade it for the POS  Wink 

Having a chit chat is ok.
I only have a laptop, like many people, can't mine nothing with it, have to buy cryptos, PoW or PoS.
Which means I, like many people, use different criteria for my preference of cryptos than miners.

I just had a customer ask me about cryptos, he can't mine anything either, naturally he would like to invest into Bitcoin, because Bitcoin is everywhere, but I also introduced him to PoS, NXT. He will have to buy with cash, Bitcoin or not, what does it matter to him, if it's PoW or PoS, he will look at other criteria. Right now he'll probably be into Bitcoin mostly, because it's been around longer, but you get the idea, since he can't mine PoW, he'll eventually be interested in PoS coins too, because any coin requires that he pays cash to get it and he would like to diversify risks. There are many people like him, who just come to the crypto market and can't mine anything.
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July 18, 2014, 07:42:00 AM
 #79

It seems to me from my limited knowledge that these are the two new competitors to bitcoin and I was wondering which one had more advantages over the other.

Mainly I'm wondering about the underlying technology, i.e. NXT vs CryptoNote. Which one has a better chance of becoming a successful alternative to btc/ltc?

Are there any glaring problems in either technology that I should know about?

How about the dev teams? Are both technologies supported by a robust and active development team?

People's main argument in favour of bitcoin is that bitcoin can always add whatever features are implemented on altcoins. But from what I can tell bitcoin is the old dinosaur very resistant to change and anything but agile. Bitcoin doesn't even seem to be interested in addressing the problems that it has, let alone adding new features or upgrades.

So what features really stand out about either technology?

Does anyone feel that either codebase is objectively better than bitcoin? Or are we not quite there yet?
i'm not an expert but i seen a lot info in last days that nem is pretty scam. there were a lot of threads few days ago about this, just look for them few days back in this board
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July 18, 2014, 07:46:24 AM
 #80

Why is 3000 or 5000 or even 10000 stakeholder of NEM better than 70 in NXT. Nothing is fair when we talking about money. Money need to be transparent not fair. Is Bitcoin unfair because of his creator? Satoshi fortune is around 1M Bitcoins, maybe more.

That's been my primary qualm with NEM from the start -- 3000 vs. 73 is meaningless.

NEM's PoI can be significant. 3000 initial stakeholders is not.

It was not equal distribution between 73.  There was a 1.5 BTC limit and only 20 people invested the limit, and without any taint analysis we don't know how many of those said 20 were socks.   We also don't know if those 20 people had any crony or nepotism connection with each other.  The other 53 or so people got the scraps.  For people who claim freeloading is an issue in NEM - there's NxT whales with 40+ million coins who haven't logged in months and don't contribute to coding, discussion or even funding.


A distribution of 3000 isn't intended to be a planetary distribution.  We know Aurora tried to give coins to every Icelander and its' value plummeted when the first batch were selling their coins for beer and salted herring.  Ironically, it echoed the original "air drop" that was the privatization voucher of the FSU in the early 1990s (which people promptly sold to door-to-door salesmen and used the proceeds to buy liquor.  

"So most people immediately sold their voucher on the street for about seven dollars. You could get two bottles of cheap vodka for the price of one voucher." are the results you can see on Google.  Some salesmen even traded chocolate snicker bars for vouchers.  A lot of the salesmen who acquired those vouchers later became very rich).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voucher_privatization


The distribution was to weaken the influence of any whales, sockpuppets or incidents of cronyism.  To match the power of an early NxT investor one would have to create 160 sockpuppets in NEM back in January (160 times of bypassing taint analysis which was only revealed later, 160 times of dealing with the anti-spam restrictions on this forum, 160 times of creating socks for a worthless coin, et cetera) and creating 160 socks for a worthless coin was beyond any normal person's patience.





There ain't no Revolution like a NEMolution.  The only solution is Bitcoin's dissolution! NEM!
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