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Author Topic: How to Turn Bitcoin Into the Top Payment Network and the Currency of the Future  (Read 8541 times)
Red Emerald
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February 21, 2012, 09:23:11 PM
 #21

What I mean is that people won't have to put more than say $20 on a card.
This is not convenient.  What happens when I want to spend $25? I go to my computer and transfer funds around and then have to wait for 6 confirmations?

Giving anyone your private key, even a "trusted" merchant, is incredibly foolish.  After swiping your card once, you could never trust it again.

A smart phone app that reads a QR code is the easiest and most secure so far IMO.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=58552.0 links to this video that shows how easy it can be http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDOcLros-w0

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Matthew N. Wright
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February 21, 2012, 09:25:15 PM
 #22

What I mean is that people won't have to put more than say $20 on a card.
This is not convenient.  What happens when I want to spend $25? I go to my computer and transfer funds around and then have to wait for 6 confirmations?

Giving anyone your private key, even a "trusted" merchant, is incredibly foolish.  After swiping your card once, you could never trust it again.

A smart phone app that reads a QR code is the easiest and most secure so far IMO.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=58552.0 links to this video that shows how easy it can be http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDOcLros-w0

Alas, this has all been discussed immensely under Atlas's other numerous account names, but he just doesn't get it. He thinks that the risk of giving away your information to a merchant is better than the security provided by a service that has the potential to screw you over.

Bottom line guys, when you have to use a service, you have to trust someone. It's money for Christ's sake.

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February 21, 2012, 09:38:59 PM
 #23

This is not convenient.  What happens when I want to spend $25? I go to my computer and transfer funds around and then have to wait for 6 confirmations?
You use another card just like how you take another 20 out of your pocket. The cards will be like banknotes but less wasteful. You can rewrite a card with a different key if you want.

Giving anyone your private key, even a "trusted" merchant, is incredibly foolish.  After swiping your card once, you could never trust it again.


So you don't use credit cards?

Do you really think a business will stay in business if it keeps misusing people's financial information?

The worry is unwarranted and, again, the cards are disposable.

The Communists say, equal labour entitles man to equal enjoyment. No, equal labour does not entitle you to it, but equal enjoyment alone entitles you to equal enjoyment. Enjoy, then you are entitled to enjoyment. But, if you have laboured and let the enjoyment be taken from you, then – ‘it serves you right.’ If you take the enjoyment, it is your right.
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February 21, 2012, 09:45:06 PM
 #24

Step 1: Make a Bitcoin web portal that is the easiest way to pay and get paid.

How does money work for most people online?

1. They find an item or service they like.
2. They click purchase.
3. They enter their credit card or Paypal information.
4. The item/service is on its way.

That's it. They don't have to wait for the network to finish downloading the blockchain. They don't have to enter a couple of passwords and validate the purchase an extra time. It just works.

Make Bitcoin easier than this and give people incentive to switch to Bitcoin from their current methods, then Bitcoin will be a step closer to being mainstream.

Non-existent fees and a decentralized network aren't going to sell most people on Bitcoin. The key thing is user experience.

You have to make it easy for people to get Bitcoins and send them. We're nowhere close.

Step 2: Make a Bitcoin card and make it compatible with current credit card machines.

How do most people purchase things in store?

1. They bring their item(s) to checkout, they are priced and they are given a total.
2. They scan their credit card.
3. They bring their items to the car and go about their lives.

They don't want to pull out their phone, type in how much they want to spend, point it at a QR code and wait for the network to register it. That's not innovation. It's pure stupidity. If this is the future of Bitcoin, then Bitcoin is going nowhere for ordinary people.

[CAUTION: YOU ARE ABOUT TO TAKE A LOOK INTO THE FUTURE]

There's a simpler solution: You give consumers credit cards with the Bitcoins (or private key) encoded on the magnetic strip, with a Bitcoin wallet address on the outside of the card.

You give merchants software for their credit card machines that hook directly to the Bitcoin network and directly transfer from Bitcoin private keys on customer's cards.

Consumers load up their cards at home through the public wallet address on the front of their cards. They go shopping, pick their items and scan the cards without a sweat when they want to purchase.

What if they are afraid their Bitcoin credit card has had its information stolen? They empty the card out and use another one. It's very simple.

If they are paranoid enough, they can tie the Bitcoin cards to two private keys and the card can't be emptied without a PIN number or approval from a mobile phone.

However, most consumers will be fine with just using plain cards. An extra complicated step is not the best solution for most people.

In fact, cards can be made into a cash/credit hybrid. A card won't have to carry more than $20 at any given time. Such a card won't have to have tight security.

You won't have to put more on a card than you are willing to lose.

In summary, follow these two steps and Bitcoin will be the currency of the future.

You're welcome.

This assumes that the customer wishing to pay for a product or service on line actually has a credit card. There is a huge market for Bitcoin for those online merchants who wish to sell products or services to those that do not have a credit card. This is not about making Bitcoin more convenient, it is about identifying where Bitcoin is the only viable option and where the alternative is: No Sale.

Concerned that blockchain bloat will lead to centralization? Storing less than 4 GB of data once required the budget of a superpower and a warehouse full of punched cards. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/IBM_card_storage.NARA.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card
Red Emerald
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February 21, 2012, 09:48:40 PM
 #25

So you don't use credit cards?

Do you really think a business will stay in business if it keeps misusing people's financial information?

The worry is unwarranted and, again, the cards are disposable.
Actually I don't have a credit card.

I do use a debit card though and it has the same flaw according to you.  What you forget is that credit card companies can restore any funds stolen from me.  A stolen bitcoin private key does not have the same problems as a stolen credit card number.

I should have realized you were Atlas. Thanks for saving me time, Matt.

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February 21, 2012, 09:50:36 PM
 #26

I respectfully disagree with the OP that bitcoins on some type of a plastic spending card is the future.

Plastic discs for music are not used anymore.  Everything is all digital, portable, and has much better utility.

Plastic payment cards for purchases are going to face a similar fate as CDs.  I don't think it makes any sense to have bitcoin go backwards in technology.

The future is all digital.  Payments Cards, Gift Cards, all that plastic crap in your wallet is about to be replaced with something in digital form, just like the stack of music CDs has been replaced my collections of MP3 files.

Digital Wallets are the future.  What we need are simple, elegant, mobile bitcoin wallets.  No block chain, no hassle, make it simple and easy.  Ditch the plastic cards, that's 1950s technology.  Go with the digital wallet, its where bitcoin shines!!!

BitPay : The World Leader in Bitcoin Business Solutions

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February 21, 2012, 09:57:32 PM
 #27

I respectfully disagree with the OP that bitcoins on some type of a plastic spending card is the future.

Plastic discs for music are not used anymore.  Everything is all digital, portable, and has much better utility.

Plastic payment cards for purchases are going to face a similar fate as CDs.  I don't think it makes any sense to have bitcoin go backwards in technology.

The future is all digital.  Payments Cards, Gift Cards, all that plastic crap in your wallet is about to be replaced with something in digital form, just like the stack of music CDs has been replaced my collections of MP3 files.

Digital Wallets are the future.  What we need are simple, elegant, mobile bitcoin wallets.  No block chain, no hassle, make it simple and easy.  Ditch the plastic cards, that's 1950s technology.  Go with the digital wallet, its where bitcoin shines!!!


Yes, let's replace cheap plastic, disposable cards with an expensive device. Let's require all the poor people out there to invest in electronics.

The Communists say, equal labour entitles man to equal enjoyment. No, equal labour does not entitle you to it, but equal enjoyment alone entitles you to equal enjoyment. Enjoy, then you are entitled to enjoyment. But, if you have laboured and let the enjoyment be taken from you, then – ‘it serves you right.’ If you take the enjoyment, it is your right.
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February 21, 2012, 09:59:35 PM
 #28

So you don't use credit cards?

Do you really think a business will stay in business if it keeps misusing people's financial information?

The worry is unwarranted and, again, the cards are disposable.
Actually I don't have a credit card.

I do use a debit card though and it has the same flaw according to you.  What you forget is that credit card companies can restore any funds stolen from me.  A stolen bitcoin private key does not have the same problems as a stolen credit card number.

I should have realized you were Atlas. Thanks for saving me time, Matt.

A stolen Bitcoin private key will result in a very small loss according to my system.

You have yet to prove using multiple cards with various amounts will result in a likely chance of significant loss:

It won't.

I stand by my system completely. Getting ripped off with my system is as likely as your waitress refusing to give you change out of a $50 bill.

The Communists say, equal labour entitles man to equal enjoyment. No, equal labour does not entitle you to it, but equal enjoyment alone entitles you to equal enjoyment. Enjoy, then you are entitled to enjoyment. But, if you have laboured and let the enjoyment be taken from you, then – ‘it serves you right.’ If you take the enjoyment, it is your right.
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February 21, 2012, 10:04:40 PM
 #29

I respectfully disagree with the OP that bitcoins on some type of a plastic spending card is the future.

Plastic discs for music are not used anymore.  Everything is all digital, portable, and has much better utility.

Plastic payment cards for purchases are going to face a similar fate as CDs.  I don't think it makes any sense to have bitcoin go backwards in technology.

The future is all digital.  Payments Cards, Gift Cards, all that plastic crap in your wallet is about to be replaced with something in digital form, just like the stack of music CDs has been replaced my collections of MP3 files.

Digital Wallets are the future.  What we need are simple, elegant, mobile bitcoin wallets.  No block chain, no hassle, make it simple and easy.  Ditch the plastic cards, that's 1950s technology.  Go with the digital wallet, its where bitcoin shines!!!


Credit Cards were designed in the 1950's and 1960's for in person transactions. Their use online is actually a hack and one that leads to fraud, charge backs etc. What I see that many forget is that there are many people who still use cash and it is in most cases the poor.  The reason they use cash is because they do not have a credit card or a bank account for that matter. To mention an extreme case. One can give cash to a homeless person on the street, but can one perform the same transaction with a digital wallet? I am not aware of many homeless people that have merchant accounts! To put it bluntly the poor are the low hanging fruit for Bitcoin, not for in-person transactions but for online transactions.

Concerned that blockchain bloat will lead to centralization? Storing less than 4 GB of data once required the budget of a superpower and a warehouse full of punched cards. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/IBM_card_storage.NARA.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card
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February 21, 2012, 10:06:55 PM
 #30

bitcoin cannot exist as a currency and a commodity, and be widely accepted as either.

look at this scenario: sitting around at a restaurant, waiting for the price to go up so you can settle the receipt.


bitcoin, 2nd most popular currency used by criminals.
bitcoin, 2nd most popular currency used by criminals.
bitcoin, 2nd most popular currency used by criminals.
bitcoin, 2nd most popular currency used by criminals.
bitcoin, 2nd most popular currency used by criminals.
The probability that you too are a criminal, is very high.
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February 21, 2012, 10:09:29 PM
 #31

bitcoin cannot exist as a currency and a commodity, and be widely accepted as either.

look at this scenario: sitting around at a restaurant, waiting for the price to go up so you can settle the receipt.
When/if bitcoin gets to that level of acceptance, the price won't be as volatile as it is currently and so it won't be a problem.

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February 21, 2012, 10:26:00 PM
 #32

Digital Wallets are the future.  What we need are simple, elegant, mobile bitcoin wallets.  No block chain, no hassle, make it simple and easy.  Ditch the plastic cards, that's 1950s technology.  Go with the digital wallet, its where bitcoin shines!!!

I agree with this.
iPOD type little sci-fi wallets with digital screens for the mass market.

One of the biggest problems is super-instantaneous payments user-to-user in the street. 10 minutes of waiting for the first confirmation is good enough for online-payments, but elsewhere the received funds must flash on your screen within a second.

I guess there will be numerous different solutions to handle Bitcoins.


Matthew N. Wright
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February 21, 2012, 10:29:28 PM
 #33


Yes, let's replace cheap plastic, disposable cards with an expensive device. Let's require all the poor people out there to invest in electronics.

What's this I hear? Atlas suddenly wants to champion for the world's poor?

Face it. Electronics that enable activities that cannot be done without them are not at fault for not being able to function in a time and space that they don't in fact exist in.

Did you think Bitcoin was free or something? Have you looked around at the mining subforums lately?

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February 21, 2012, 10:43:34 PM
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Yes, let's replace cheap plastic, disposable cards with an expensive device. Let's require all the poor people out there to invest in electronics.

What's this I hear? Atlas suddenly wants to champion for the world's poor?

Face it. Electronics that enable activities that cannot be done without them are not at fault for not being able to function in a time and space that they don't in fact exist in.

Did you think Bitcoin was free or something? Have you looked around at the mining subforums lately?

The poor are not going to use the "cheap plastic" or the "expensive device" for in person transactions. They will likely stay with cash. Online where cash does not work is where Bitcoin has the real opportunity with the poor.

Concerned that blockchain bloat will lead to centralization? Storing less than 4 GB of data once required the budget of a superpower and a warehouse full of punched cards. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/IBM_card_storage.NARA.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card
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February 21, 2012, 10:46:39 PM
 #35

Yes, swiping a card then walking out the door with your items is so primitive.

I rather pay $49.99 for Bitpay's digital wallet with a 5 hour battery life, go through various menus, wait several seconds for the QR code to scan and finalize the transaction.

Oh wait, my battery died. I guess I won't be buying anything today.

Is there a gas leak in here? I swear, you guys are thinking like a failing toy company.

The Communists say, equal labour entitles man to equal enjoyment. No, equal labour does not entitle you to it, but equal enjoyment alone entitles you to equal enjoyment. Enjoy, then you are entitled to enjoyment. But, if you have laboured and let the enjoyment be taken from you, then – ‘it serves you right.’ If you take the enjoyment, it is your right.
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February 21, 2012, 10:49:22 PM
 #36

It's cool you're trying to come up with ideas to stimulate the bitcoin economy, but when you get hardly any positive feedback from the community you should drop it ok? If these people don't see anything in your idea, they probably are right..

Why would I want to take many cards with me? I already hate it to take a few with me, any card I would have to take extra is a burden. Also charging different cards is waaay too much of a hassle. I can't see how you think this is the future.. QR-codes/NFC and mobile wallets or any new inventions will be the future.

https://www.bitbuy.nl - Koop eenvoudig, snel en goedkoop bitcoins bij Bitbuy!
Bitcointalk topic over Bitbuy!
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February 21, 2012, 10:49:50 PM
 #37

Yes, swiping a card then walking out the door with your items is so primitive.

I rather pay $49.99 for Bitpay's digital wallet with a 5 hour battery life, go through various menus, wait several seconds for the QR code to scan and finalize the transaction.

Oh wait, my battery died. I guess I won't be buying anything today.

Is there a gas leak in here? I swear, you guys are thinking like a failing toy company.

In solidarity with the poor. None of the above. Just cash.

Concerned that blockchain bloat will lead to centralization? Storing less than 4 GB of data once required the budget of a superpower and a warehouse full of punched cards. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/IBM_card_storage.NARA.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card
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February 21, 2012, 10:53:28 PM
 #38

Yes, let's replace cheap plastic, disposable cards with an expensive device. Let's require all the poor people out there to invest in electronics.

youre missing the point.  people already have these devices.  There are a billion camera phones in the world.  There's no need to buy an expensive device.  We can build the future with software, all software.  Ditch the plastic cards and start making digital wallets that can work on any phone.

M-PESA in Africa sends payments by SMS text message.  we can do that with bitcoin, someone should figure it out.


BitPay : The World Leader in Bitcoin Business Solutions

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Does your website accept bitcoins?
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February 21, 2012, 11:01:31 PM
 #39

oh fuck, he's back again

We missed you Atlas.

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February 21, 2012, 11:05:59 PM
 #40

Yes, let's replace cheap plastic, disposable cards with an expensive device. Let's require all the poor people out there to invest in electronics.

youre missing the point.  people already have these devices.  There are a billion camera phones in the world.  There's no need to buy an expensive device.  We can build the future with software, all software.  Ditch the plastic cards and start making digital wallets that can work on any phone.

M-PESA in Africa sends payments by SMS text message.  we can do that with bitcoin, someone should figure it out.



Oh Tony, you seem to have missed the point..

A $50 device with 5 hours of battery life, a 3g connection, a camera, and a solid, utilitarian style. -- compatible with the steve jobs look -- is the only way to ensure that BecauseBitcoin.com is prominently displayed for all the other turtle neck wearing woolong device carrying citizens; Citizens who will then know that you, Tony, have graduated into the inner sanctum of digital hip.

Because, Bitcoin.

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