New 400 BTC Bounty Pales Roger Ver's 37.6 BTC Bounty for Return of Stolen BTC

[mangodream]

That being said, a friend of mine once said "I don't even trust my own asshole".
When I asked why he replied: "I had attempted to fart once, but instead I shit myself".

Oh gawd you killed me hahahahaha

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[Phinnaeus Gage]

First I think both Phin and Davout are eminent bitcoiners and should get the credit/respect they desserve.

However, PG's claim isnt new. He was the only one claiming that those 1k+ BTC belong to him up to now and had put tremendous efforts and time to try to get it back since Instawallet went down. I know davout and PG arent besties but they should be reasonable enough to put an end to this whole story for the sake of Phin's health and Davout's businesses, at the very least.

Bury the axe, settle down and move on.

They way I understood it is that there is more than 40k BTC waiting to be refunded to Instawallet's users that can come up with some more proof, which may just be impossible to get. So if they dont, what will happen with those funds? Instawallet's owners will just keep it all?! That just doesnt sound right.

Dont make this case another Mtgox scandal which would harm Bitcoin in general (and especially in France since davout & folks represents it in here).

PG's reputation and efforts to denounce bitcoin heists & abuses in general should account for his sincereness and legitimacy in this whole drama.

Peace, luv... and bitcoins!

Thanks kindly for the generous post, but I will not give up the leverage I have in regaining control of what was stolen from me. If a bigging scandal arises due to my efforts, so be it, for that's my serious attempt until justice, as I see, is at hand.

I draw a line in the sand right here, right now, to put a stop to these scamming bastards - to the best of my ability - starting with those still considered viable, namely Bitcoin-Central, of which, BTW, I've shown in the past that bitcoins were indeed funneled back and forth between it and InstaWallet prior to and after the "hack", something of which should never have been the case, especially when said coins were then immediately funneled back, then the process continued. Sound familiar? Mt Gox should come to mind.

I'm sure that Paymium is just dying to have their books scrutinized to show the world how such was done. I'm also sure that Paymium can't wait to show what other venerable Bitcoin-based entities they've been laundering moneys for. CS's BitInstant comes to mind, albeit not related to this fiasco, I don't believe.

~Bruno Kucinskas

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Phinn:

It seems pretty clear that Davout (claims) to not have enough information for the balances you claim. I would think you have two options:

a) Provide Davout additional information about the deposits (tx id or deposit address) that funded your instawallet account.
b) Find a lawyer and take legal action.

If you cannot provide the additional information he requests, if the information does not help Davout or for some other reason he does not pay out, then your only option is legal action.

The option I favor is dragging Paymium, et al. name through the ringer, using the same washer they use to launder money. Fuck, I'll even use the same clothes line they use to hang them out to dry.

~Bruno Kucinskas

[Phinnaeus Gage]

lake lack of proof

Actually "lake of proof" is not far from "ocean of proof" which would be a valid English phrase (akin to "mountain of proof").  In this case it would have the opposite meaning to what you intend.

Fuck it! Let's settle on "lake of proof" as in either they need a slab of concrete for my ass, or I'll use to sink their leaking ship, with it doesn't matter what lake we opt to use.

~Bruno Kucinskas

[Marlo Stanfield]

I can insure you they are attached to paymium brand and have plans for it.
They are "leaders" in france in Bitcoin landscape.

Let's clear this out. Give me hints to find your transaction in the blockchain. (I have sent you a mail to dabitcoing...@...)


I will contact my lawyer, propose him a quarter of the bounty, and contact Davout to see if he is ok to help.
If everything seam good, lawyer will establish the contract for fund recovery in your behalf and will escrow.
If french justice have put the hand into this, we should find a way to read the reports of the case.

The only thing that bother me is if you are the lier, I will work for free. 

I'd be interested to hear both Davout's and Bruno's response to this. Keep us updated please.

"If french justice have put the hand into this, we should find a way to read the reports of the case."

This is a big one. What if they refuse to give your lawyer the police report number?

[Phinnaeus Gage]

That deal is now off the table due to Lemon Way deleting their tweet(s) expressing interest in obtaining bitcoins three days prior to the InstaWallet "hack" because I now honestly believe they, too, are hiding shit.

You should know that at the time of the hack, the banking partner of Paymium was Aqoba, a subsidiary of "Crédit Mutuel", one the big french banks.  It is well documented everywhere.

Lemon Way came later, when they relaunched Bitcoin-Central (around Q4 of 2013)

I was well-aware of that fact, of which always begged the question why the switch, especially to an entity wasn't even able to obtain bitcoins on their own accord three days prior to the InstaWallet "hack", then a couple months later was acting as Bitcoin-Central's bank. Totally fucking amazing if you ask me. Almost as amazing as me stating to produce 14nm chips in some barn with goats doing the assembling after I tweet, "Where can I get me some of that sand used in making silicon wafers?"

Then, once I claim that I'm in production, I'll delete my tweet once I'm called out on not knowing what I'm doing, in spite of claiming to have highly trained goats on the payroll.

~Bruno Kucinskas

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I personnaly think that if phinneas have proof, he should start immediatly an action in justice. If he don't, we have nothing to know the truth.

If Phin knows the BTC are his AND other party knows the BTC are Phin's AND Phin knows other party knows AND there is no proof, what is Phin's recourse?

"Please, Phinn, please stop! You win!"

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I think you take the issue by the wrong end.

You should try to find evidences. I know Davout a little bit, and attacking him won't turn is mind.

I'm pretty sure that if you have more consistant hint, you will be fully refunded.

I'm thinking.

In the irc quote you posted, maybe I spoted a way to found evidence.

I have to think more and will offer you and Davout a deal.


Will you help me help you both found evidence and be the one abble to intermediate between you both?

My evidence is scant, since davout probably erased the info on the servers just like Lemon Way deleted "where can I get me some bitcoins?" tweet.

I suggest he pull that independent auditor outta his ass, and not one that he recently commissions.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I think you take the issue by the wrong end.

You should try to find evidences. I know Davout a little bit, and attacking him won't turn is mind.

I'm pretty sure that if you have more consistant hint, you will be fully refunded.

I'm thinking.

In the irc quote you posted, maybe I spoted a way to found evidence.

I have to think more and will offer you and Davout a deal.


Will you help me help you both found evidence and be the one abble to intermediate between you both?

The onus should be on Davout to provide the means for an independent evaluation of Bruno's claims.

Why state you are going to have an auditor(or the originally intended auditors) and then either not actually have one, or have someone audit and then release absolutely no results?

Am I going crazy or is this not shady as fuck? I can't be the only one here who thinks this is ridiculous?

Either way I hope both Bruno and Davout take you up on your offer to help find evidence.

I'm not versed in such things, but I fear that so much time has passed that who knows what has been altered or not by now, that's why it was so imperative to know who the independent auditors (plural, according to Boussac, singular, according to davout, ergo one of them was lying) were ASAP at the time, with each passing day shit may happen.

~Bruno Kucinskas

[Nicolas Dorier]

Phinnaeus Gage, why don't you have any Tx Id that served to make the transfer to Paymium ?
Even partial information would help to find it in the blockchain, I can run a block scan for that if it can help.
If it is just that an privacy problem, pm me.

[btchip]

I was well-aware of that fact, of which always begged the question why the switch...

Only speculating here : one plausible explanation is that Aqoba/Crédit Mutuel has been scared to death after the hack that :
- it was somehow easy to steal a substantial amount of bitcoin,
- there was nothing that could be done to recover them.

Scared. To. Death.

Only possible issue was to fully stop the partnership, which has be done very professionally in my opinion (I was a Bitcoin-Central customer and I fully recovered everything).

Then they had to start a new partnership, with a smaller/less fearful company (not really a bank, only a "payment service provider"). And completely redesign the exchange by removing even the presence of a "hot wallet".

+ a lot, thanks for putting some sanity into that thread  

we're currently looking at :

* an online wallet that used URLs to identify accounts
* said URLs listed by a search engine at some point (due to the hack or for some another reason, who knows) (nope, my bad)
* potentially the full URL database compromised due to the hack
* said database seized during the police investigation (as davout said in the logs above)

Basically an epic mess, which would likely have a better chance to get settled properly without threats and name calling IMHO.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I will also request some things to Davout, I think I have a technical idea to get the truth.

I think Davout is honest and will collaborate if I find a way to get some proofs.

Based on what they said, and I hope finneas would find some details to help me find wallet and transaction logs.

If someone is lying, I hope to find wich one.
And if no one lie and we found the transactions, finneas should have is full refund and me my bounty. 

All I need to have is the two bitcoin wallet addresses associated with the two URLs and I'm pretty sure we can reconstruct this with no problems. But, here's the rub. David has control of said wallet addresses, and when I was first able to revisits all three URLs, none of the addresses were available for viewing. Once I brought said anomaly up, offering up proof of at least the lesser wallet, the address for the 0.835 BTC wallet mysterious appeared, but not for the other two. At that time, I presented three claims. Davout even claims to this day that I didn't even have a single claim on file. Well fuck me in the ass on that one, for I did such again in Oct., Nov. and Dec., but still no claims appeared on his end, so he claims.

The best I can make out is that davout is claiming that not only didn't I have three wallets, later reduced to only two (lucky me!), but I didn't even place any claims on said wallets not even once, and that this is some sort of ruse I devised from the onset of the "hack" making up the URLs (paraphrased, but that's the best I can ascertain trying to get into his head). Perhaps, he's trying to make me out as some sort of scammer, I don't know, but for some motherfuckin' reason that's how it's currently reading to me. I'm the bad guy, and every motherfuckin' thing they've done on their part is gospel, ergo they're Saints.

~Bruno Kucinskas

[Phinnaeus Gage]

It's been a long time i haven't seen a thread with so much action

Make sure you have enough popcorn for everybody, bud. 

[RiverBoatBTC]

Wish he lived in the US I would be knocking on his door.

[watcoin]

Well if I was davout, I'd have a "buddy" negotiate this settlement pronto - settle for $50k, take the 400BTC reward.  Easy money!

SOB! I didn't think of that, that he may use this thread now to his advantage, and still come out like a motherfuckin' bandit. Fuck me royal! The only thing I can say about this revelation is that he best have an anonymous pseudo-liaison (or is it pseudo-anonymous liaison?) person in place, otherwise I will get really pissed.

Do not settle for anything less than owed! Renege publicly right now and use the scenario above. All BTC not a single fucking satoshshi less. They are enjoying the value of your BTC. Personally, I would not wait. I would sue the them and go for max value in US dollars because you would have sold them at their peak, being the savvy investor that you are (hint hint). Use a US Court because they are notorious for awarding high damages. Your pain and suffering is worth BTC.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

It's now $100K USD due to Lemon Way deleting a mundane tweet asking where they could obtain bitcoins, when the answer was walking distance to Paymium's back door, a back door, I may add, that used to launder bitcoins.

Seriously you should read your own thread :

That deal is now off the table due to Lemon Way deleting their tweet(s) expressing interest in obtaining bitcoins three days prior to the InstaWallet "hack" because I now honestly believe they, too, are hiding shit.

You should know that at the time of the hack, the banking partner of Paymium was Aqoba, a subsidiary of "Crédit Mutuel", one the big french banks.  It is well documented everywhere.

Lemon Way came later, when they relaunched Bitcoin-Central (around Q4 of 2013)

I have no idea when exactly Lemon Way started talking with Paymium, but the tweet they deleted only shows they were noobs by the time. Nothing more.

The least I will now accept is $150K USD via BTC. (not meant as a diss toward you, ghdp, kind sir) Now, I look even less retarded, eh?

On March 27, 2013, Sébastien Burlet asked via his Twitter account https://twitter.com/lemonway how to obtain bitcoins as shown below.



Yet, just 24 hours earlier guess who he is setting next to. I bet you'll never guess in a million years. Hint: GG.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:m5byqzAYb7AJ:www.payforum.fr/files/PROGRAMME_PayFORUM_vf.pdf+&cd=18&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Of the 3/26/2014 9:00 to 10:45

Themes: Virtual Currency Virtual currency:

Issues & Prospects At the time of dematerialisation, the advent of virtual currency like the AmazonCoins and bitcoins raises regulatory and safety questions. Thus, whileas this type of currency circulating on the web and seems to attract some consumersinclined to the use of alternatives, still unknown on the controlthis type of currency. The conference will be addressed by these new players who are trying toa place in this emerging market and the regulator.

Speakers:

Conference Chair: Cédric Peltier, Manager, Kurt SalmonCathie-Rosalie Joly, Partner, Office Ulys - Gonzaga Grandval, CEO, Paymium -Sébastien Burlet, President, Lemon Way - Geoffroy Goffinet, Banque de France

I have to admit, that's some n00b!

"Damn, I was sitting right next to that Bitcoin dude, and never took the time ask him how I can get me own hands on some precious. What to do? What to do? AHHHhhhh! Me thinkith I use my Twitter account and ask me keen followers if they know, for they're the bestest. Later, when I'm well-versed and somehow weasel my way into that very lucrative Bitcoin space, I'll simply delete the tweet, and nobody will be the wiser, eh, Kitty?"

"Meow!"

Here's another mundane tweet that Lemon Way opted to delete: https://twitter.com/lemonway/status/192001692177412096



Want more proof that we're not dealing with a n00b here? Okay, here it is:

http://www.lefigaro.fr/conso/2012/06/14/05007-20120614ARTFIG00693-le-smartphone-revolutionne-le-paiement-en-ligne.php

Sébastien Burlet is the only person that commented on the article linked above (I had to use Google Translator, for the page won't translate on its own like they normally do)

In the mobile payment, there are payment face to face with the merchant, which will replace a portion of the payment made by credit card now, and remote payment is made by bank transfer, check, or screws companies transfer Money well known diasporas from former French colonies, for example, or money for the unbanked.

The smartphone also enables sending money away easily between people. Thus it is possible to make a connection between his bank card and mobile number, much like iTunes makes a connection with the card and iTunes account; then send money to a mobile phone number. Without the need for bank details of the recipient. Mobile revolution that transforms eg Apple iPhone Genuine remote payment. This is the service launched by LemonWay since June 1 in France for example. Or Dwolla, Venmo USA. Or PingIt, mobile payment service in Barclays Bank in the United Kingdom. Chase QuickPay or the USA.

For sure, for sure, that Sébastien Burlet is one amazing n00b. What to know what's even more amazing? Thought so! Wait to read what the translated article he was commenting to. I took the liberty and bolded the important part. Fair warning! Don't dip into the popcorn just yet.

Digital portfolios will multiply in France in the coming months.

To pay online with a smartphone, the customer, his credit card in hand, still has laboriously enter the 16 digits on the small screen. But that will change. Soon, it will be enough to click on the website of e-shopping on a button V.me (Visa) or PayPass (MasterCard), for example, to set indicating only its identifier (name, e-mail ...) and a secret code. Bank details (account number or card) have been previously registered with MasterCard or Visa (usually via the bank) or other institutions who consider themselves legitimate to propose the solution of payment: PayPal, telephone operators mobile, etc..

In France, Buyster or Kwixo (Crédit Agricole) already offer this simplified method of payment. But only with certain partners e-merchants. Offers major operators, could provide a network of wider acceptance, are eagerly awaited. MasterCard has just announced the global launch of this formula with its digital portfolio, the PayPass Wallet. It should arrive in France in the first half of 2013.
In the fall for Visa

"His generalization depend on the speed with which banks, retailers, service providers will adapt to this new offering," says Jorn Lambert, at MasterCard. For its part, Visa announced its solution, called V.me in the fall. PayPal and intends to use the smartphone revolution to push his advantage, highlighting the PayPal account.

The stakes are high: to capture a large market of payment. Because consumers have already adopted the smartphone to do their shopping on the web. "More than 16% of traders who work with us in 2011 received a payment from a mobile," notes Gimena Diaz, commercial director of PayPal France. Especially, professionals predict that the smartphone could also be used to remotely adjust purchases in stores "hard". "We see every day that the boundary between traditional commerce and e-commerce is falling," says Marc Jaugey, at PayPal. Soon, the user can control the menu at fast food, pay on his smartphone before going to search around the corner. Or offer a new sportswear by comparing prices on the Internet by going to the store to select the model, and paying on his smartphone to save queuing at the checkout.
Internet can he have his money?

Facebook has created Facebook Credits, which can be bought on the website and become a virtual currency to pay safely games or applications, even from a mobile. In recent years, a "free" software (it does not belong to business) issues, he Bitcoins, which are traded on the sites (bitcoin-central.net, for example) to about $ 6 a. "Some 9 million bitcoins have already been created," notes Gonzaga Grandval, society Paymium. Few e-retailers accept this virtual currency, but users will sometimes use them to pay a restaurant, a taxi ... Since last April, the Yesibank, a French company, has created a new currency: the Yes.

Yes you earn by visiting certain sites, collecting friends on Facebook and used to go shopping with discounts at Virgin, Pixmania, Brandalley ... Example: 1000 yes + € 2 = 1 movie download is a 60% reduction

That's pretty fuckin' amazing to find an article where the sole commenter is commenting on an Bitcoin-based entity a year prior to them both sitting next to each other to give a talk on virtual currency and payment systems, yet said commenter had to ask his twerps where he could get his hands on some bitcoins. What are the odds?

The following image comes to mind, hopefully, you all, get its meaning.



To be clear, davout, the minimum settlement I would now consider is $150K USD via BTC, thanks to the above revelation.

I have done nothing today except work at this thread of which I've yet to reach its end, albeit I did take a quick breakfast break, but posted about David while taking a shit - literally!

~Bruno Kucinskas

[btchip]

Could you provide people with all public information you can about where the bitcoins you put into Instawallet came from (another online wallet ? only a single transfer or multiple transfers over time ?)

I think that'd be more productive that trying to find some sense in PR strategies or press quotes  

[MadZ]

It's been a long time i haven't seen a thread with so much action

Must have missed the goat thread.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Phinnaeus Gage, why don't you have any Tx Id that served to make the transfer to Paymium ?
Even partial information would help to find it in the blockchain, I can run a block scan for that if it can help.
If it is just that an privacy problem, pm me.

All I have is what InstaWallet gave back to me once it came back online. That is all. The same was true of the third 0.835 BTC wallet, but a bitcoin address finally did appear just prior to me being able to submit the three claims the very first time.

https://www.instawallet.org/w/rL2DhMWW9tDvs24oFwtiq99zhh7A3ii6bg
https://www.instawallet.org/w/gZh1afVVl5aAtjNwXo0BiYChTxjwln33ab

I guess the following is the reason InstaWallet is offline:

Domain Name:INSTAWALLET.ORG
Domain ID: D162075183-LROR
Creation Date: 2011-04-19T21:14:25Z
Updated Date: 2014-04-18T09:57:07Z
Registry Expiry Date: 2015-04-19T21:14:25Z
Sponsoring Registrar:OVH (R135-LROR)
Sponsoring Registrar IANA ID: 433
WHOIS Server:
Referral URL:
Domain Status: clientDeleteProhibited
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited
Registrant ID:ovh5350f6f2o5k4
Registrant Name:GONZAGUE GRANDVAL
Registrant Organization:PAYMIUM SAS
Registrant Street: 73, RUE DU CHATEAU
Registrant City:BOULOGNE-BILLANCOURT
Registrant State/Province:
Registrant Postal Code:92100
Registrant Country:FR
Registrant Phone:+33.100000000
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax:
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email:support@instawallet.org
Admin ID:ovh5350f6f2k5lq
Admin Name:Gonzague GRANDVAL
Admin Organization:PAYMIUM
Admin Street: 73 rue du chateau
Admin City:Boulogne-Billancourt
Admin State/Province:
Admin Postal Code:92100
Admin Country:FR
Admin Phone:+33.786541133
Admin Phone Ext:
Admin Fax:
Admin Fax Ext:
Admin Email:gonzague.grandval@paymium.com
Tech ID:ovh5350f6f2k5lq
Tech Name:Gonzague GRANDVAL
Tech Organization:PAYMIUM
Tech Street: 73 rue du chateau
Tech City:Boulogne-Billancourt
Tech State/Province:
Tech Postal Code:92100
Tech Country:FR
Tech Phone:+33.786541133
Tech Phone Ext:
Tech Fax:
Tech Fax Ext:
Tech Email:gonzague.grandval@paymium.com
Name Server:DNS101.OVH.NET
Name Server:NS101.OVH.NET
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
DNSSEC:Unsigned

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I was well-aware of that fact, of which always begged the question why the switch...

Only speculating here : one plausible explanation is that Aqoba/Crédit Mutuel has been scared to death after the hack that :
- it was somehow easy to steal a substantial amount of bitcoin,
- there was nothing that could be done to recover them.

Scared. To. Death.

Only possible issue was to fully stop the partnership, which has be done very professionally in my opinion (I was a Bitcoin-Central customer and I fully recovered everything).

Then they had to start a new partnership, with a smaller/less fearful company (not really a bank, only a "payment service provider"). And completely redesign the exchange by removing even the presence of a "hot wallet".

+ a lot, thanks for putting some sanity into that thread 

we're currently looking at :

* an online wallet that used URLs to identify accounts
* said URLs listed by a search engine at some point (due to the hack or for some another reason, who knows)
* potentially the full URL database compromised due to the hack
* said database seized during the police investigation (as davout said in the logs above)

Basically an epic mess, which would likely have a better chance to get settled properly without threats and name calling IMHO.

Early on during the InstaWallet claim thread posting, I resorted to vitriol attacks, but put a cease to end when a kind fellow Bitcoiner echoed your same sentiment. But, once that effort went nowhere, I restarted the practice, but chill when davout and I started a dialog via email the later part of last year.

Since Februaryish, I have once again restarted the practice with no intent this time of ending, hence being on full-tilt with this motherfuckin' fiasco. I tried the honey approach twice, now I love the taste of vinegar and salt.

~Bruno Kucinskas