[XCR] Crypti | Dapps | Sidechains | Dapp Store | OPEN SOURCE | 100% own code | DPoS

[shuzibi]

看这个新线程,仍然感兴趣

[shuzibi]

看这个新线程,仍然感兴趣

[adam1230]

Subscribed and looking forward to this.

[S3MKi]

No escrow by Anon136? When I can invest?

[crypti]

No escrow by Anon136? When I can invest?

Escrow by maxmint, ipo will be started 30 June.

[lawgicc]

How do I Get on the list to purchase Crypti & Where do I start?

[adam1230]

All you who ask the same question 100 times, READ THE OP or 1 page of the thread and stop being lazy!

[lawgicc]

All you who ask the same question 100 times, READ THE OP or 1 page of the thread and stop being lazy!

I want more info than what is given in the OP. Thanks

[Neo.op]

Grexx, still looking for the answer to my last post. Either it got buried or crypti has made a note of ignoring the obvious.

[GreXX]

Grexx, still looking for the answer to my last post. Either it got buried or crypti has made a note of ignoring the obvious.

Neo.op - I've tried to keep on top of your thoughts and suggestions and we are by no means ignoring you. If the comment was during the day while I was at work I probably missed one somewhere along the way. That or I thought I addressed it in one of the posts I made summing up overall issues. Let me go back and find it and try to respond.

[crypti]

How do I Get on the list to purchase Crypti & Where do I start?

Provide your email here - http://crypti.me
We will notify you in IPO start day (30 June).

[alrose]

Watching

[GreXX]

The Pre-Sale Funds

As per why 10% Genesis + the Pre-Sale funds, which I think is the brunt of most peoples aversion so far.

When we discussed the launch internally, we initially tried to budget the next 2-3 years of development based on the pre-sale earnings alone. We sat down and tried to come up with a number for how much we thought would be raised in the pre-sale and factor that into how much development would most likely cost. There are several recent launches to use to do a comparative analysis and somewhat gauge what this figure might be.

We have seen launches bring in anywhere from 23 BTC - 143 BTC for "PoS" type coins.

If we look at these numbers based on the BTC -> USD value on Coinbase as of today (roughly $606), that equates to anywhere from about $14,000 USD - $87,000 USD. To many, this might seem like a fortune, but to a business trying to get off of the ground with no future ability to make money (we aren't maintaining any rights or ability to sell our product later), this is a very small sum of money. Let's try to put this amount in perspective.

I personally have worked almost full time on this project for 2 months. I am 1 of 9 developers on this project just to get it to launch. Let's say I only worked part time for perspective, which would be 20 hours per week for the last 2 months. Based on my current salary from my day job in the United States, that would be $7,000 / Month for full time, so divide by 2, so $3500 / month x 2 months of work so $7,000. That is for 2 months of development for 1 person on a 9 man team. When you take into account 9 people, and say you pay all 9 of us, half of what my normal salary would be, so let's say they each get $3500 every 2 months, that is still $3500 x 9 people = $31,500 for 2 months of funding the team based on traditional salaries in my country. In this case, 12 months of development (which will only touch the surface of where Crypti can go) would be $3500 x 9 people, x 6 (2 month periods) = $189,000. That is just for 1 year.

Now let's assume everyone is doing this on the side and doesn't need the money for their kids to eat and so we can pay them a lot less. Even at 1/3 of the numbers we used above ($600 or 1 BTC / Month per developer), we would still almost run out of money after 1 year of development. The Crypti Foundation isn't being built to last 1 year. It is being built to develop for 5, 10, even 15 years if possible to do so. We don't want this ride to end anytime soon. So from that perspective, the pre-sale BTC was not going to be enough for long term development.

The 10,000,000 Crypti

Once we realized that we didn't think the pre-sale funding would be enough to sustain the Foundation long-term, we decided we needed to find another way to help fund development. We decided that holding on to  some of the currency would provide a double purpose. It would provide long term funding for Crypti and it would also encourage us to continue to grow and increase the valuation of the coin to keep our operating funds relevant.

To put this number in perspective, let's look at the fact that we have no idea of what the initial valuation of the currency would be. The best case scenario is for us to match the value of NXT over the next 4-6 months (which wouldn't be easy) and hold a value of $0.05-$0.06 / Crypti. While I think this is a best case scenario, were this to happen, the Foundation would be holding on to $500,000-$600,000 worth of Crypti. This is an outrageous amount when you look at the dollar signs, but for a 10 year development cycle, it really isn't that outrageous. But, again, that is best case scenario. Let's say that Crypti holds a more realistic valuation equivalent to something like MaidSafeCoin and ends up being about $0.01 / Crypti in 6 months. At that point, if the team were to sell the entire stake (which would never win a majority vote, I can guarantee), it would put the total earnings at around $100,000 USD. That would potentially hire developers from overseas for several major projects and if we can find a way to monetize one or 2 of the projects to help raise funds for the foundation, we would be able to function on more long-term scale.

The bottom line is, when you break the numbers down, in an average to moderately optimistic scenario, the Foundation comes out with 250 BTC (a great goal we would love) or $151,000 USD for development, and can hold the Crypti for the long term to turn it into a 10 year operating budget.

Grexx lets do some number crunching. 23-143 BTC for a launch means..
7,500,000 = 23 BTC ---> 1crytpi = 0.00000307 BTC ~ 0.002 dollar
7,500,000 = 143 BTC ---> 1 crypti = 0.00001907BTC ~ 0.011 dollar

Considering the higher limit, you would be already touching the 0.01 Maidsafe mark. So are you saying you will be constrained even to keep the same level after a 6 mths period?
Secondly, of the 15% coins you guys are pre-mining you already will be worth 15k USD + 87k USD from the sale ~ 102k in the kitty for development. So remind me once more why you guys need the extra 10%?

Edited for calculation mistake

@Neo.op - I think I found the one you are referencing so let me try to answer your questions. Just so you know, I was trying to address this post as well as others commenting on the distribution model when I made my overly long post about our taking the distribution under consideration and factoring in all of the comments and ideas we have received. That being said, let me address yours specifically and give you my thoughts.

Your math looks to be spot on. We understand your concerns with the amount left in the coffer so to speak. Let me start by clarifying a couple things. The amount set aside for the development team members isn't the Foundations money to work with. It is payment for services rendered for the creators of Crypti and therefore we cannot, as a Foundation, control how it is spent. It's payment and equity in Crypti for those who built it. For investors, you are buying into the pre-sale with your BTC that you invest. The creators of Crypti and development team bought their share of the pre-sale with the hard work they have put in on development. Each person is being awarded a different amount based on their contribution.

For arguments sake and to be completely up front, I will tell you that my share of the launch of Crypti is 1%. That equates to 1,000,000 Crypti.

That number may seem inflated to you, but let me put that in perspective.

If we make 75 BTC or less in the pre-sale, every investor that pledged 1 BTC or more will have same amount or more at launch than I do. As a member of the development team, I will not be buying into the pre-sale.

Taking that into consideration, if you invest 2 or 3 BTC, you will double or triple my holdings. I think this is a fair and equitable distribution in that sense. So you consider it a pre-mine, I consider it payment for services rendered. Obviously we are going to have to agree to disagree on this aspect.

What you are proposing is that all of the creators of Crypti, who are being paid with stake in the service they built, be required to then use that payment to pay for further development out of pocket with money that is now theirs.

Say you work at a software company and your annual salary is $60,000. That would be like your employer paying you your check each month, but then requiring you to lease your desk, buy all of your own computers, printer cartridges, paper, pay out of pocket from your check for the companies advertising and marketing campaigns, and also require you to work for free after that year on any future updates or additions you make to the software.

You would immediately turn in your resignation.

So the argument that the 15% paid to the development team will be part of the development fund moving forward, I think, is a lot to ask, too much in fact from my perspective.

That being said, I hear you loud and clear on the argument that using the BTC earned in the pre-sale + 10% of the genesis block seems like too much to you. I have brought this issue to our team and we are currently discussing the options and deciding on whether or not we want to keep it how it currently is, drop the 10% and try to work off the pre-sale funds, pay the development team the pre-sale funds and drop one of the % blocks, or some other method we haven't yet thought of. We are also considering having the Foundation work off of monthly or yearly dues for voting members like many other Foundations do, in order to try and maybe secure long term development that way so that we can drop part of the initial genesis block back into the pre-sale.

All of these ideas are being considered and this issue is under advisement. I make no promises as it isn't my decision alone, but I assure you that we are discussing it thoroughly.

[TwinWinNerD]

I'll look at this!

[GreXX]

Grexx lets do some number crunching. 23-143 BTC for a launch means..
7,500,000 = 23 BTC ---> 1crytpi = 0.00000307 BTC ~ 0.002 dollar
7,500,000 = 143 BTC ---> 1 crypti = 0.00001907BTC ~ 0.011 dollar

Considering the higher limit, you would be already touching the 0.01 Maidsafe mark. So are you saying you will be constrained even to keep the same level after a 6 mths period?
Secondly, of the 15% coins you guys are pre-mining you already will be worth 15k USD + 87k USD from the sale ~ 102k in the kitty for development. So remind me once more why you guys need the extra 10%?

Edited for calculation mistake

Actually, I take that back, these numbers are wrong due to you using 7,500,000 for the calculation instead of 75,000,000, which will be the actual distro to pre-sale investors. 

It should look like this:

A. 23 / 75,000,000 = 0.000000307 BTC ~ 0.00018 (Worst case scenario), (Total Market Cap: $18,000)
B. 143 / 75,000,000 = 0.000001907 BTC ~ 0.0011 (Average scenario), (Total Market Cap: $110,000)
C. 250 / 75,000,000 = 0.0000033 BTC ~ 0.00198 (Best case scenario), (Total Market Cap: $198,000)

Let's break down the distribution in these scenarios to determine how much funding would be.

75,000,000 Pre-Sale Value

A. 75,000,000 x $0.00018 = $13,500
B. 75,000,000 x $0.0011 = $82,500
C. 75,000,000 x $0.00198 = $148,500

10% Future Development Fund

A. 10,000,000 x $0.00018 = $1,800
B. 10,000,000 x $0.0011 = $11,000
C. 10,000,000 x $0.00198 = $19,800

15% Salary to Developers

A. 15,000,000 x $0.00018 = $2,700
B. 15,000,000 x $0.0011 = $16,500
C. 15,000,000 x $0.00198 = $29,700

Now this would be assuming we gain no value after the initial pre-sale, which would be counter to proven examples. We have seen an increase of anywhere from .8x to 40x (NXT) the initial pre-sale valuation. 2x-4x seems realistic for more recent launches in which case I would draw possible similarities and assume we might see a similar evaluation.

In order to see the numbers you mentioned previously, to reach that $0.01 valuation, we would have to see an initial amount raised of the 143+ mark and a 10x increase in valuation post-launch, or we would have to raise 1500 BTC in the pre-sale (in which case I think we would throw all investors a giant mega party!).

I'm not saying this is impossible, as it could very well happen if interest is high, just clarifying the numbers.

Even having said all of that, we are still taking all suggestions under consideration and trying to determine if we should adjust the launch distribution.

[Neo.op]

Say you work at a software company and your annual salary is $60,000. That would be like your employer paying you your check each month, but then requiring you to lease your desk, buy all of your own computers, printer cartridges, paper, pay out of pocket from your check for the companies advertising and marketing campaigns, and also require you to work for free after that year on any future updates or additions you make to the software.

Grexx thanks for the correction, the valuations were way off . Though there is another thing to ponder (though again you can agree to disagree). Should a developer working in an entrepreneurial venture, specially in a start-up structure with no identifiable business revenue expect a full time employee salary?
Though I still sincerely hope crypti can do away with the 10% dev fund.

[steady712]

Even having said all of that, we are still taking all suggestions under consideration and trying to determine if we should adjust the launch distribution.

These are just words. Most of us are dissatisfied with the distribution method but is unlikely you change "the plan". Many greedy people ...

[prix]

1. You then specify the approximate salary - these salaries are too high for Russia (even for Moscow), where, I believe, the main part of your team.
However, it's not important, I don't mind.
2. Pointing salary you give to understand that people work for money, not for the idea, they are not enthusiasts, they are not interested in the success, they just hired workers. I like another scheme - the developers have a stake and make every effort for the success of the coins to the share increased in monetary terms several times. I hope I'm clear outlined my thoughts.
Maybe I'm wrong, it's just my impression.
In principle, no difference of 10% or 25% you currently take. If developers do not have the desire to develop your product (I do not mean you, I don't know nothing about you and your team) there is already the size of the share will not matter.

As a result: no difference 10% or 25%, talk about salaries saddens me.

[open82buy]

I am still looking at this and thinking about investing, I have no problem with the Devs getting paid, but could the payments be staggered to keep the Devs interest.

I would even go with a bigger % to the Devs.

I have been burnt MANY MANY times in the past, where after the coin is released the Devs have lost interest or motivation to innovate.

If you can cover and calm my concern with the above you can count me in.

Thanks in advance.

[SyRenity]

I have been burnt MANY MANY times in the past, where after the coin is released the Devs have lost interest or motivation to innovate.

If you can cover and calm my concern with the above you can count me in.

Thanks in advance.

We are discussing some form of vesting to keep developers committed to the long terms, and in case we reach one, we will announce it towards the pre-sale start.