{ANNOUNCEMENT} WBX Exchange Frozen

[Graet]

yeah I don't check back as often as I should
Got caught helping someone out, bought WBX code converted to btc never got a chance to withdraw
will send PM now

[dooglus]

LOL @ the "dodgy" vanity address.

  I had pre-generated a bunch of vanity addresses and picked that one for the WBX funds.  Then after reading the recent "I've just been robbed" thread, it occurred to me that I'm not 100% certain that I've never stored the unencrypted private keys for my vanity addresses on my hard drive.  So I panicked and moved everything out of my vanity addresses.  Better safe than sorry!

yeah I don't check back as often as I should
Got caught helping someone out, bought WBX code converted to btc never got a chance to withdraw
will send PM now

Got it, thanks.

[dooglus]

I'd just contact ITSA for advice.  There's a toll-free number residents of some countries can use or you could email them if you want stuff in writing.

I'm not convinced that the other directors of HNT aren't just as liable as Andre, but that's only an issue if people are lodging lawsuits. 

Thanks.  I'll do that and report back here.

I finally got around to contacting ITSA.  I emailed them, and immediately got back a stock response saying they'll respond within 5 working days.

I'll report back here when I hear from them.

[dooglus]

I finally got around to contacting ITSA.  I emailed them, and immediately got back a stock response saying they'll respond within 5 working days.

I'll report back here when I hear from them.

They replied:

Thank you for your enquiry. Your first course of action might be to establish whether the individual is Bankrupt.
 
To obtain this information, you will be required to conduct a search of the NPII - National Personal Insolvency Index.
 
The NPII is a public record and contains information on proceedings and administrations governed by the Bankruptcy Act 1966.
 
Content of any search conducted ordinarily will show:
 
·          Type of administration or proceeding
·          Date of administration or proceeding
·          Identification number / administration number
·          Full name & alias of debtor
·          Address of debtor at the time of bankruptcy
·          Date of birth of debtor
·          Occupation & business name of debtor
·          Name of trustee or controlling trustee
·          Particulars of any prior or subsequent bankruptcies
 
Any person can, for a fee, have access to information maintained on this index through Index Search Agents who have been authorised by ITSA to provide real-time online searches.
 
Costs may vary – refer to agent for further details.
 
You can conduct a search by contacting one of the following Index Search Agents
 
·          CITEC offer an online search service via their web site: www.confirm.com.au
·          Veda Advantage on: 1300 921 621; via email on enquiry@veda.com.au  or via their website: www.veda.com.au
·          Espreon Property Services on: 1300 305 205, fax 1300 553 030, via email client.services@espreon.com or their web site: www.espreon.com
 
When conducting a search please ensure you have the full name of the person.  Providing an address and/or date of birth in your search parameters may assist in delivering clearer results.
 
If the individual is not a bankrupt then we would suggest that you obtain independent legal advice.
 
Please contact the National Service Centre on 1300 364 785 or email info@itsa.gov.au with any further enquiries.

Did anyone here carry out such a search on Andre?

[repentance]

Did anyone here carry out such a search on Andre?

I've been periodically checking the notices of credtors' meetings and he shouldn't have been able to register as a director of Progressive Security if he's bankrupt but I haven't conducted a search of the Personal Insolvency Index.  I also haven't checked whether there are any insolvency proceedings in progress against High Net Worth Property (it seems to have been a shell company so it may not have had any trade creditors).

Patrick has listed Andre's full name and date of birth in this thread, which would help if anyone decides to do an Index search.

[dooglus]

Did anyone here carry out such a search on Andre?

I've been periodically checking the notices of credtors' meetings and he shouldn't have been able to register as a director of Progressive Security if he's bankrupt but I haven't conducted a search of the Personal Insolvency Index.  I also haven't checked whether there are any insolvency proceedings in progress against High Net Worth Property (it seems to have been a shell company so it may not have had any trade creditors).

Patrick has listed Andre's full name and date of birth in this thread, which would help if anyone decides to do an Index search.

I believe he was a director of Progressive Security before WBX ran into trouble.  I remember seeing a weird entry in the WBX server's .htaccess file which redirected some WBX URLs to a Progressive Security site - probably before he got a separate domain registered for Progressive Security.

I assume it would cost money to do the search that ITSA recommended.  I'm guessing that if Andre isn't bankrupt then ITSA would recommend that creditors sue him for the missing assets, though they didn't explicitly say as much.

Does anyone have any kind of legal action in progress against Andre?  I know several have mentioned it in this thread, including Patrick.  Is there anything to report?

I'm still at a loss of how to proceed.  I would happily just split the remaining bitcoins between the creditors proportionally, but apparently that may be legally dangerous for me to do.  I don't want to spend the WBX coins on obtaining legal advice, or before I know it there won't be any left to divide.

Suggestions?  Please?

[PatrickHarnett]

I did start work on something a while ago, but found the person I was dealing with was a bit dodgy and wasn't actually doing anything.  Then I had to concentrate on some bigger issues so dropped it.

[repentance]

dooglus, you're not in Australia, are you?

If I was you I'd just split the Bitcoins based on the information you have available.  You have no way of getting better information.  Even if you technically distribute them wrongly, they're not being held in Australia and an Australian insolvency trustee isn't going to pursue overseas clawback for the amount involved - it would be too costly and not result in a substantial benefit to creditors.

Also, if Andre has declared personal insolvency, then he is the one who should have notified his trustee of any assets so that the trustee could take possession of them as well as providing the trustee with a list of creditors.

I'd just keep a record of how you've distributed them.  Yes creditors can take Andre to small claims if he's not insolvent.  That's really his problem and not yours.  He explicitly told you to distribute the BTC so if someone doesn't get paid he's still responsible for whatever's owed to them.  How he pays any judgement against him is his problem.

[Seal]

dooglus, you're not in Australia, are you?

If I was you I'd just split the Bitcoins based on the information you have available.  You have no way of getting better information.  Even if you technically distribute them wrongly, they're not being held in Australia and an Australian insolvency trustee isn't going to pursue overseas clawback for the amount involved - it would be too costly and not result in a substantial benefit to creditors.

Also, if Andre has declared personal insolvency, then he is the one who should have notified his trustee of any assets so that the trustee could take possession of them as well as providing the trustee with a list of creditors.

I'd just keep a record of how you've distributed them.  Yes creditors can take Andre to small claims if he's not insolvent.  That's really his problem and not yours.  He explicitly told you to distribute the BTC so if someone doesn't get paid he's still responsible for whatever's owed to them.  How he pays any judgement against him is his problem.

+1.

My stance: redistribute. If anyone was going to take any major legal action. They would have by now.

[sonba]

dooglus, you're not in Australia, are you?

If I was you I'd just split the Bitcoins based on the information you have available.  You have no way of getting better information.  Even if you technically distribute them wrongly, they're not being held in Australia and an Australian insolvency trustee isn't going to pursue overseas clawback for the amount involved - it would be too costly and not result in a substantial benefit to creditors.

Also, if Andre has declared personal insolvency, then he is the one who should have notified his trustee of any assets so that the trustee could take possession of them as well as providing the trustee with a list of creditors.

I'd just keep a record of how you've distributed them.  Yes creditors can take Andre to small claims if he's not insolvent.  That's really his problem and not yours.  He explicitly told you to distribute the BTC so if someone doesn't get paid he's still responsible for whatever's owed to them.  How he pays any judgement against him is his problem.

+1.

My stance: redistribute. If anyone was going to take any major legal action. They would have by now.

+1

[jaminunit]

WBX is still open sucking people in!

[dooglus]

WBX is still open sucking people in!

I'm surprised to see the site's still up.  That must mean someone's still paying the hosting bill.

I don't know if it's actively scamming people.  The trading is "frozen", and I'm not allowed to deposit:

"Please identify yourself or pay a fee to remain anonymous. before initiating any Deposits"

I guess it's possible some people might pay the fee.  I am curious to know what's going on with WBX now though.  My guess is that nothing's going on, and that the fee is paid by some automatic payment that's been forgotten.

[jaminunit]

He still owes me the $500 I deposited just before he scammed everyone. and somehow he can still pay for hosting. what a tool.

[repentance]

WBX is still open sucking people in!

I'm surprised to see the site's still up.  That must mean someone's still paying the hosting bill.

I don't know if it's actively scamming people.  The trading is "frozen", and I'm not allowed to deposit:

"Please identify yourself or pay a fee to remain anonymous. before initiating any Deposits"

I guess it's possible some people might pay the fee.  I am curious to know what's going on with WBX now though.  My guess is that nothing's going on, and that the fee is paid by some automatic payment that's been forgotten.

Although Andre said that he no longer had control of the site, information was stripped from it over a period of time rather than all at once so it wasn't just abandoned.

If I had to guess, I'd say that Andre's hoping that someone will want to buy the domain and the site - or if not Andre, then whoever now controls the site.

I wish I could be bothered setting up some kind of Google bomb so that Andre's actions regarding WBX come up every time someone does a search on Progressive Security.

[Seal]

Any movement on this Dooglus?

[bitcowok]

--EDIT--- this is not well thought out, see later post for revision----EDIT---

Ok, I recommend we all cut our losses and get this done with : distribute the bitcoins as fairly as possible to each person owed money in proportion to exactly how much they were owed as of the date WBX ceased trading.

The value of bitcoin rising should ensure that we come close to giving the $AU people back close to what they lost, and the exact amount of bitcoins for the bitcoin people, right?

ie if I had $A600 owed i'd get close to $A600 back, in bitcoins  (ie ~47BTC at todays rate)
if I had 23BTC owed i'd get 23BTC back

simple.   Keep everything in BTC so it never touches AU laws, to prevent legal complications.

The $AU people would lose out here (I'm in this camp), but breaking even is a good outcome IMO.

Are there enough bitcoins to go ahead with this dooglus?
Is there enough info in your copy of the mysql DB to fairly distribute funds?

I'd be happy to send in a signed guarantee that I wont sue, to make this happen, If everyone is in aggreeance.

What do people think? In my books, it would end this debacle on a positive note.

[bitcowok]

If there's not enough BTC for that to happen, how much would the exchange rate need to rise before it could?

[Graet]

Ok, I recommend we all cut our losses and get this done with : distribute the bitcoins as fairly as possible to each person owed money in proportion to exactly how much they were owed as of the date WBX ceased trading.

The value of bitcoin rising should ensure that we come close to giving the $AU people back close to what they lost, and the exact amount of bitcoins for the bitcoin people, right?

ie if I had $A600 owed i'd get close to $A600 back, in bitcoins  (ie ~47BTC at todays rate)
if I had 23BTC owed i'd get 23BTC back

simple.   Keep everything in BTC so it never touches AU laws, to prevent legal complications.

The $AU people would lose out here (I'm in this camp), but breaking even is a good outcome IMO.

Are there enough bitcoins to go ahead with this dooglus?
Is there enough info in your copy of the mysql DB to fairly distribute funds?

I'd be happy to send in a signed guarantee that I wont sue, to make this happen, If everyone is in aggreeance.

What do people think? In my books, it would end this debacle on a positive note.

Something needs to happen, too many of peoples BTC are stuck in "failed" Bitcoin ventures, this one has gone on too long.

[bitcowok]

OK i've just realised why that wont work.

OK how bout just an even split then proportional to whats owed:

BTC_owed = 1768.9876932
AU_bitcoins_owed = Convert all AU amounts owed to BTC as of todays rate, and add them up

payback_ratio= ( BTC_owed + AU_bitcoins_owed )  / 1768.9876932

Howmuch_you_get_back = your_amount_owed * payback_ratio

BTC people should still be "up" even though they're getting less bitcoins than they put in, due to the rise in value.

A$ people will lose out a bit, but will still come close to breaking even.

[Seal]

Threadbump... anyone there?