{ANNOUNCEMENT} WBX Exchange Frozen

[brendio]

Can you point me to the details of buying WBX debt. I'm interested as I'm fairly busy, however I'm still happy to go ahead and file an independent claim, if I go down this route, happy to work with you. My claim amount is substantial.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70147.0

I'm still unsure of my pricing. It may be crazily too high if the frozen bank account funds disappear and Andre has not other major assets, or it may be a bargain if the funds are released next week and we all get back the full amounts.

Good money after bad or not? Hmmm.

[1715132885]

1715132885

[payb.tc]

official statement:

i am selling my total WBX funds to brendio.

i have sent him a WBX code for a little over $497.33 and brendio has agreed via PM to send me 11 BTC for it.

edit: i've now received the 11 btc.

[brendio]

official statement:

i am selling my total WBX funds to brendio.

i have sent him a WBX code for a little over $497.33 and brendio has agreed via PM to send me 11 BTC for it.

Confirmed.

[Seal]

well, even if we dont have his personal details, the bank has
Does anyone still have his bank account details for his priavte account and received some money from it? If so - could you please post the details here?

The account listed on the website is:


Account title:   A R JENSEN
Bank:   CBA
Account number:   1249-6599
BSB:   062-000

[payb.tc]

official statement:

i am selling my total WBX funds to brendio.

i have sent him a WBX code for a little over $497.33 and brendio has agreed via PM to send me 11 BTC for it.

Confirmed.

confirmed your confirmation.

[repentance]

well, even if we dont have his personal details, the bank has
Does anyone still have his bank account details for his priavte account and received some money from it? If so - could you please post the details here?

The account listed on the website is:


Account title:   A R JENSEN
Bank:   CBA
Account number:   1249-6599
BSB:   062-000

That's the Commbank Martin Place  in Sydney BSB number.  It's not the online services BSB, so the account may have been set up in person.

Do we have any evidence that High Net Worth Property Pty Ltd has/had anything to do with Andre?

There's online stuff linking him to HNWP prior to the launch of WBX, but that doesn't guarantee he was still associated with HNWP when WBX opened though.  There's not even any evidence that HNWP ever operated as a company selling financial and property services.

[dooglus]

Dooglus, are you able to provide records to substantiate account balances should this go to court? I have screenshots, but given that these can be photoshopped, it would be good to have more substantial evidence. Also, I am looking into buying other peoples debt so that it justifies the cost of pursuing legal action. I need to make sure that I can collect on debt obtain through voucher transfer subsequent to the halting of trading. Again, I am keeping screenshots, but the definite record of this is run by WBX.

I'm sorry to say that I no longer have admin access to the exchange.

I don't know when my account stopped being an admin account, but I just logged in to check that I could still see balances before telling you that I could, and found that I no longer can.

The most recent copy of the statement for all users I have is from "2:14:54pm 20-Mar", server time, and the most recent copy of user balances is from "2:13:48pm 20-Mar" server time.

So some time in the last month my account was downgraded from an admin account to a regular one.

[Seal]

Dooglus, are you able to provide records to substantiate account balances should this go to court? I have screenshots, but given that these can be photoshopped, it would be good to have more substantial evidence. Also, I am looking into buying other peoples debt so that it justifies the cost of pursuing legal action. I need to make sure that I can collect on debt obtain through voucher transfer subsequent to the halting of trading. Again, I am keeping screenshots, but the definite record of this is run by WBX.

I'm sorry to say that I no longer have admin access to the exchange.

I don't know when my account stopped being an admin account, but I just logged in to check that I could still see balances before telling you that I could, and found that I no longer can.

The most recent copy of the statement for all users I have is from "2:14:54pm 20-Mar", server time, and the most recent copy of user balances is from "2:13:48pm 20-Mar" server time.

So some time in the last month my account was downgraded from an admin account to a regular one.

Dooglus (Chris right?),

Assuming you still have FTP access to the server, you can get a copy of the SQL database which it runs off. This will have all the information you need. If you can view the files assuming you programmed them, look in the config or the database class for the username and password. Then run flat selects from all of the main tables into flat file dumps.

Happy to help with this as the code is all opensource and as you know I'm a developer.

[dooglus]

Thanks for the transparency i appreciate it, please return users BTC using this forum or however you think is a open way in doing so safely, You still have Admin access to WBX and i will not change this until all BTC is returned also you can view the user database i left that open for that reason.

Andre, the problem is that until you know how many dollars you are going to be able to get back from the banks, you don't know what the total assets of WBX are.  And so you don't know what percentage of the liabilities you will be able to repay.

I propose holding on to the BTC until the situation with the bank becomes clear.

Do you agree?

Chris,

I agree, this is worst case scenario and i would like for everyone to receive a full refund of there funds but unfortunately i cannot guarantee it at this stage, as soon as i get a clear conformation from my bank what is returned then the process of distributing assets will commence, I will keep you updated here.


Andre

As shown here, I was under the impression that I would be left with admin access until the BTC I'm holding were able to be returned to users.  I've not heard anything that contradicts this, but yet here's my account as it looks today.



An admin account would have a red "unfreeze" link in the header and would have the option of allowing me to see any or all user statements not just my own, like it did last time I saved a copy of it back in March:

[dooglus]

Dooglus (Chris right?),

Assuming you still have FTP access to the server, you can get a copy of the SQL database which it runs off. This will have all the information you need. If you can view the files assuming you programmed them, look in the config or the database class for the username and password. Then run flat selects from all of the main tables into flat file dumps.

Happy to help with this as the code is all opensource and as you know I'm a developer.

It's Chris, yes.

As I wrote before, my login access to the exchange's web host was disabled some time ago, but I was left with admin access to the exchange webapp:

5. Although my login to the web host is no longer working, my login on the exchange is still an administrator account.  This is confusing; if Andre was trying to lock me out of the exchange then leaving me an account with admin privileges seems like an oversight.

which Andre confirmed here:

4. Yes i locked you out as i had to minimise further risk to the Exchange Database and code, sorry Chris its nothing personal i am just protecting my self and WBX client information.

I have dumps of the database content, the most recent of which is dated 5th March 2012.  After that I could no longer log in to the web host to get access to the database, but I could still view and save user balances and transaction statements using the admin interface of the website itself.

[brendio]

Thanks, Chris,

So I guess it would be good for those transferring debt to get a separate confirmation statement from the seller, as well as the voucher code.

[PatrickHarnett]

A useful thing to do, if you have not done so, it log back into the site and print your entire profile and trading history.  I have these safely stored in pdf files covering 15 pages.  I would not like to see other people lose access to their information when (rather than if) the website is removed.

p.s. did a little search on Raetihi because it's a tiny town - Andre went to pre-school there around 1985-91. 
Also, my Commonwealth a/c didn't show anything useful on the corresponding Martin Place account.

[dooglus]

https://twitter.com/#!/gorkalitus/status/21884519681 roughly gives us a birthday:

[repentance]

Given that Andre couldn't refinance the mortgage on his house because of dings on his credit, it might be worth pulling a credit report on him to get an idea of how much he owes other creditors and what action they've taken against him so far. 

[brendio]

Given that Andre couldn't refinance the mortgage on his house because of dings on his credit, it might be worth pulling a credit report on him to get an idea of how much he owes other creditors and what action they've taken against him so far.  

I don't think can easily be done without Andre's consent:

Who can access my details?

Generally only credit providers and the individual themselves can access information held in a consumer credit file by D&B.

As a credit information provider, D&B can provide information regarding an individuals personal credit report to:

a credit provider
a current credit provider
a mortgage insurer
a trade insurer
another credit reporting agency
a person/body to whom disclosure is authorised or required by or under law
a credit provider or a law enforcement authority in connection with a 'serious credit infringement'
Generally speaking the individual will need to be advised by the recipient of their personal credit report, that their individual personal credit report will be accessed.

D&B may provide a copy of an individuals personal credit report to a person who has been authorised in writing to act on the consumer's behalf. This applies to situations where a consumer engages the services of a debt counsellor or a financial advisor.

For a credit provider wishing to seek a combination of consumer and commercial information, the credit provider will need to obtain your consent.

[brendio]

I just got off the phone with QCAT. Debt claims to be heard by the court cannot be grouped. Each applicant needs to lodge their own claim. If the business is not registered, documents will be served on the individual. Otherwise, they are served to the registered business address.

QCAT application fees:

Applications or referrals under:               Application fee       Appeal fee
Not more than $500, or no amount claimed       $21                   $260
More than $500 but no more than $1,000         $53                   $260
More than $1,000 but no more than $10,000      $95                   $260
More than $10,000                              $265                  $530/font]

[repentance]

I just got off the phone with QCAT. Debt claims to be heard by the court cannot be grouped. Each applicant needs to lodge their own claim. If the business is not registered, documents will be served on the individual. Otherwise, they are served to the registered business address.

QCAT application fees:

Applications or referrals under:               Application fee       Appeal fee
Not more than $500, or no amount claimed       $21                   $260
More than $500 but no more than $1,000         $53                   $260
More than $1,000 but no more than $10,000      $95                   $260
More than $10,000                              $265                  $530/font]

They can be grouped after judgement if you collectively want to force someone into bankruptcy though.  Andre doesn't seem to be registered as a sole trader (he's not required to be if he's trading under his own name).  As the last known address was the registered address for HWNP, I'm not sure whether service to that address would be regarded as valid as the company is no longer a legal entity and people are proposing to claim against Andre personally, not the company.

I really don't see this ending with anything other than insolvency proceedings.  WBX are unlikely to be Andre's only creditors and it's highly likely that other creditors will seek to obtain judgements and enforcement orders.  I believe that it's worth taking action against Andre even if there's little prospect of any financial return because doing so will restrict his ability to operate another business for a while and make him subject to penalties if he leaves the country without permission.

I don't think can easily be done without Andre's consent.

I know that at least one of the companies which does searches of the National Personal Insolvency Index offers a credit report for an additional fee.  They'll get you copies of all ASIC documents as well.  I'll try to track down which one does it.  As they're credit reporting agencies in their own right, they can obtain the information.

This place does it but it's not the one I was thinking of.  Obviously, it would be advantageous to know who the other directors were and their current credit worthiness.

http://www.credisearch.com.au/html/credit_reports.html

Here's another.

http://www.pacbis.com.au/businessreporting.html

[brendio]

Any ideas of the fees? Would it work out any cheaper than just getting the ASIC reports directly?

[repentance]

Any ideas of the fees? Would it work out any cheaper than just getting the ASIC reports directly?

This is the one I was originally thinking of.  It's $41.90 for the ASIC documents plus a report on any credit defaults.  It's cheaper to obtain the ASIC documents yourself, but you won't be able to get a credit report without using one of the credit reporting services and some of them only cater to subscribed members and don't do one-off searches..

https://creditorwatch.com.au/express/asic/organisation/131700779

One you have the full names and dates of birth of the directors, it's possible to get other reports done.

[payb.tc]

I believe that it's worth taking action against Andre ... because doing so will restrict his ability to operate another business for a while and make him subject to penalties if he leaves the country without permission.

how lovely... glad i'm out... coz i wouldn't even do that to an enemy.