NXT innovation -gets a special mention at the end of my Crypto educational Blog

[EvilDave]

yes i kind of see where you come from FX but you have to kind of take the emotion out of it.

it either is or is not a scam (to all reasonable purposes) (and people call me paranoid fx).

here are the points:

- The code Java one of the most common and robust and well known open source codes in the history of mankind.

- The "buzz" and "value" around the NXT protocol has caused 100 maybe thousands of people to look at the code.

- encryption that is used for address protection is not flawed.

- NXT exists.

- if there are other "malleability" flaws in the client code then this creates a stand off, because it will be found eventually, and this will not destroy the idea of crypto currency, but the makers or people that know the flaw exist risk everything to expose it.

- NXT is not the end of the road for Crypto very likely the start.

- Everything i see indicates an attack (as futile as it is)  on NXT and you don't attack things you know are flawed.  (all things being equal)


so its quite simple - if someone said that to me i'd just simply be energy neutral (just like NXT) and just ask , where is the scam?

see the difference?

fixed your post up a little......can u spot the changes?

looks sad and desperate - yeah i noticed that.

Java lol.

This post is 95% yours, Di. Sad and desperate? Need a friend ? Come and join us on the dark side.........

https://nxtforum.org/

http://nxtclients.org/

http://www.nxtcommunity.org/

[Daedelus]

  I lol'd at the sad and desperate bit coming from colin  

If he would interact with intellectual honesty (see quarkfx's encouragement) rather than obvious attempts to inflame opinion against him, colin would attract more views to his blog.

Did I mention Nxt's turing complete Automated Transactions have begun the process of being integrated into the core? A testnet is being set up as we speak, 100% trustless escrows, auctions, lotteries and more will soon be reality. While ethereum has yet to get out of the gates   Read more here >>> https://nxtforum.org/automated-transactions/information-of-the-at-project

[zorke]

Just so we don't forget who are we talking here with:

Oh my God, look who is here to spread the FUD..   Mighty Australian Collin..  

Let me tell you all who this is. Collin is a jealous b****, half literate in English even though this is his first language. He is one of two that started Quark and decided to partner with Bill Still to whom he gave millions of shit coin Quark to promote his coin and to do a pump and dump.
Quark was my entry into crypto currencies in December and I have lost a lot of money on it, this is how I know all about Collin.
Type Bill Still report on Quark in Youtube and you will even see his interview's and his face over Skype in Bill Still show.

So now when his own scam has failed, he has came here accusing NXT loaded with his jealousy.
So guys, please pay no attention to this id***!

[digitalindustry]

I lol'd at the sad and desperate bit coming from colin  

If he would interact with intellectual honesty (see quarkfx's encouragement) rather than obvious attempts to inflame opinion against him, colin would attract more views to his blog.

Did I mention Nxt's turing complete Automated Transactions have begun the process of being integrated into the core? A testnet is being set up as we speak, 100% trustless escrows, auctions, lotteries and more will soon be reality. While ethereum has yet to get out of the gates   Read more here >>> https://nxtforum.org/automated-transactions/information-of-the-at-project

and if i was a broker on wall st i'd be able to steal heaps more wealth than your scam...but its hard to see your point?

[Daedelus]

I lol'd at the sad and desperate bit coming from colin  

If he would interact with intellectual honesty (see quarkfx's encouragement) rather than obvious attempts to inflame opinion against him, colin would attract more views to his blog.

Did I mention Nxt's turing complete Automated Transactions have begun the process of being integrated into the core? A testnet is being set up as we speak, 100% trustless escrows, auctions, lotteries and more will soon be reality. While ethereum has yet to get out of the gates   Read more here >>> https://nxtforum.org/automated-transactions/information-of-the-at-project

and if i was a broker on wall st i'd be able to steal heaps more wealth than your scam...but its hard to see your point?

Simply put then, you have ignored me and others so far in this thread who have asked legitimate questions one how you can believe your assertions are facts, in favour of posturing, posting penis rockets and trying to get a rise out of people.

I presume you think if people get angry and call you names then that vindicates your position of asserting Nxt is a scam based on no evidence?


And also, have you heard about NxtBridge? It is a wrapper that will allow Nxt to be integrated into exchanges/payment systems as easily as bitcoin and any bitcoind fork. As Nxt is brand new code, some exchanges etc have had a hard time implementing it but dedicated Nxt devs have overcome this to further the integration of Nxt   Read about it here >>> https://nxtforum.org/general/adaptor-for-legacy-bitcoin-protocols

[Daedelus]

Where does this Australian Collin live? I want to go knock him out. What he is doing is un Australian and It's just not cricket

Now now, you're are just playing into his hands with threats. Wrestle with his brain instead (if he chooses to play along)   CIYAM, the developer of Automated Transactions above, is Australian so it balances out 


I will be away from my computer for most of today so look forward to reading this when I get back   In the meantime, take a look a Nxt Android Client, one of three options in development here >>> https://nxtforum.org/nxt-wallet-for-android/project-ideaoffer-nxt-wallet-for-android/

[quarkfx]

@Kolin

no one can call Bitcoin a scam, because hard numbers prove its not, its very flawed and we all know the problems, it may be so flawed that it completely fails ?

however, it is not a scam because PROOF OF WORK (PoW) proves that.

Scams can exist on different levels. Maybe 99% of all Bitcoin holders are just scammers trying to sell an ideological narrative (money created and governed by the people) and dump once the exchange rate explodes. Who knows? I don´t think that this is going to happen, but if we´re honest we simply don´t know. The bigger the community and the better the infrastructure, the less likely it will be possible to scam people, which is why we should rather do something for our own community instead of bashing others.

Were people scammed by Bitcoin when it dropped from 30$ to 0.5$? You bet that there were enough people who felt scammed and enough who were scammed, because they sold. But today we can clearly say, that rather those who sold for 30$ were scammed.

I don´t like this argumentation because it is frequently used to promise people huge rewards even in desperate situations but it demonstrates the meaning of scam can only be attributed retrospectively in this cases. As long as there is an ongoing development in infrastructure we can at least assume that there is sme valuable substance.

yes i kind of see where you come from FX but you have to kind of take the emotion out of it.

it either is or is not a scam (to all reasonable purposes) (and people call me paranoid fx).

here are the points:

- The code C++ one of the most common and robust and well known open source codes in the history of mankind.

- The "buzz" and "value" around the bitcoin protocol has caused 100 maybe thousands of people to look at the code.

- elliptical encryption that is used for address protection is known to be flawed, but fixable.

- Quark exists.

- if there are other "malleability" flaws in the client code then this creates a stand off, because it will be found eventually, and this will not destroy the idea of crypto currency, but the makers or people that know the flaw exist risk everything to expose it.

- Bitcoin is not the end of the road for Crypto very likely the start.

- Everything i see indicates an attack (as futile as it is)  on Crypto and you don't attack things you know are flawed.  (all things being equal)


so its quite simple - if someone said that to me i'd just simply be energy neutral and just ask , where is the scam?

see the difference?

I don´t think that I am the one who´s emotional here. I disagree on the either is or is not a scam

Let´s assume you were right and all initial NXT were sent to the developer to pump the coin: what would happen if those people would sell off at one point (which would obviously their point since this would be what the scam is all about)? The exchange rate would drop dramatically and many people will claim to have "lost" their investment. But once all the initial "scammers" are out, what prevents the coin to be a success in the end? That is what happens to all crypto, which is why I referred to the Bitcoin drop from 30USD to 50cts, because this moment could be considered as a major scam as well (and it was, as far as I read). It also happened to Quark: The coin was hyped in December was far beyond its effective value. Lots of people went into for fast money, not because they wanted to develop Quark and some of those who had massive stakes because of early mining dropped their coins. People called that a scam as well, and they were wrong as you are in this discussion: With crypto there is no "real" value but the network/community which develops the crypto and stuff on top of it.

As long as crypto isn´t adopted by the mainstream it can be used to guide peoples actions with expectations a la "this is going to skyrocket" or "this is certainly the bottom, won´t get lower". I remember you wrote the latter about Quark at 500 satoshi and I thought it was just not right because neither you, nor me nor anyone else can actually know how the network reacts. I believe that Quark can come back and it is the same with other crypto - even if there are massive drops a dedicated community can catch up and move on.

I know I repeat myself, but you need to understand that your bashing of NXT doesn´t do any good and ironically mirrors arguments that have been brought against Quark (and were rejected by you as well). Take this advise from a friend: leave it, learn and move on. We have lots of thing to do, let´s mind our own business.

[ShroomsKit_Disgrace]

Please, read quarkfx post. It is the valuable one.

After the reading and the comprehension, you can lock, erase and burn this thread. Maybe People will forget this all nonsense and butthurt in some months.

You are welcome.

[Netnox]

Please, read quarkfx post. It is the valuable one.

After the reading and the comprehension, you can lock, erase and burn this thread. Maybe People will forget this all nonsense and butthurt in some months.

You are welcome.

+1 props to quarkfx for keeping it professional and respectful.

[digitalindustry]

I don´t think that I am the one who´s emotional here. I disagree on the either is or is not a scam

Let´s assume you were right and all initial NXT were sent to the developer to pump the coin: what would happen if those people would sell off at one point (which would obviously their point since this would be what the scam is all about)? The exchange rate would drop dramatically and many people will claim to have "lost" their investment. But once all the initial "scammers" are out, what prevents the coin to be a success in the end? That is what happens to all crypto, which is why I referred to the Bitcoin drop from 30USD to 50cts, because this moment could be considered as a major scam as well (and it was, as far as I read). It also happened to Quark: The coin was hyped in December was far beyond its effective value. Lots of people went into for fast money, not because they wanted to develop Quark and some of those who had massive stakes because of early mining dropped their coins. People called that a scam as well, and they were wrong as you are in this discussion: With crypto there is no "real" value but the network/community which develops the crypto and stuff on top of it.

As long as crypto isn´t adopted by the mainstream it can be used to guide peoples actions with expectations a la "this is going to skyrocket" or "this is certainly the bottom, won´t get lower". I remember you wrote the latter about Quark at 500 satoshi and I thought it was just not right because neither you, nor me nor anyone else can actually know how the network reacts. I believe that Quark can come back and it is the same with other crypto - even if there are massive drops a dedicated community can catch up and move on.

I know I repeat myself, but you need to understand that your bashing of NXT doesn´t do any good and ironically mirrors arguments that have been brought against Quark (and were rejected by you as well). Take this advise from a friend: leave it, learn and move on. We have lots of thing to do, let´s mind our own business.

Social Economics of a scam.

hey Fx - at least we can claim something this will be one of the first time that PoW and economics will have been discussed on this section of the forum for a long time.

now, where you have drifted a bit...

If you study some Nash equilibrium and game theory you will see that no, it makes much more sense to drag the scam out as long as possible, because of course then  the system can carry on and the original owners that created 1 Billion units in less than one second can slowly sell out at a "very high" (read unlimited infinity profit) (that they initially bid up on their own exchange of course.)

again,  where am i saying don't invest?

if you think that system is good, by all means throw wealth at it.

I am however saying it does not adhere to a system of PoW and it is a scam.

Cryptocurrency

Now lets move to actual cryptocurrency, yes Quark and Bitcoin were mined with provable PoW - you see the difference, Quark was mined by lots of people on this forum the original historical topic goes back to the first blocks.

so we don't have to use the "trust us we are not scammers" system, because all the people that had the information at that time were able to mine.

you see Math and Proof of Work replaced the "Trust" in the system, and that is the reason Cryptro currency exists or was invented.

then yes, the price got exuberant that is a normal aspect of the free market, my comments at 5000Sat were also a hope that larger holders would sell down, and they did, the more we distribute the  better long term, thats also a part of the free market.

Summary

One system uses humans that like to scam people to handle the "trust aspect".

the other uses Mathematics and Proof of Work.

you can invest in any one you like.

[toknormal]

the other uses Mathematics and Proof of Work

That is one of the most deluded remarks I've seen and belies quite a lack of understanding of what constitutes money.

A zillion CPU cycles don't constitute "Proof of Work". Bitcoins are not traded as tokens of computing power. The idea behind proof of work is to synthesise scarecity - whether they are mined over 20 years or 20 minutes, scarcity is the priority in both cases.

The gripe that many miners have over the way NxT was brought into existence is that it goes against all their philosophical understandings of what a crypto currency is about. But that doesn't make it a "scam". Nobody was "scammed" in this launch.

I'm into NxT in quite a big way and one of the reasons is that I see POS as a huge leap forward over POW, regardless of the flawed arguments that digitalindustry has trotted out on this thread. The "distribution" issue can be solved in more ways than mining - markets is one of them.

But more than that, most of the criticisms levelled at NXT are based in plain and simple jealousy and not even veiled jealousy at that. People just don't think it "reasonable" that early stakeholders make that much gain with such a small amount of pain (or so it would seem in retrospect - it wasn't the case at the time which is something the desperate critics must to overlook in their little toytown ethics-police role). Yet they seem to think it reasonable that if they get "in on a coin" early at low difficulty and then sell a month later at a 10,000% gain, that's ok.

Well I'm afraid they'll just have to swallow it. Scam or not, it's here, was brought into existence by totally legitimate means, is growing, innovating and being healthily traded.

digitalindustry and cohorts will keep wailing and throwing their toys out of the pram for a good while yet no doubt, but they were doing that way back in January saying the coin would be "dead" in 6 weeks. Those remarks are now being seen for the nonsense that they were and so will the ones being made today.

[digitalindustry]

the other uses Mathematics and Proof of Work

That is one of the most deluded remarks I've seen and belies quite a lack of understanding of what constitutes money.

A zillion CPU cycles don't constitute "Proof of Work". Bitcoins are not traded as tokens of computing power. The idea behind proof of work is to synthesise scarecity - whether they are mined over 20 years or 20 minutes, scarcity is the priority in both cases.

The gripe that many miners have over the way NxT was brought into existence is that it goes against all their philosophical understandings of what a crypto currency is about. But that doesn't make it a "scam". Nobody was "scammed" in this launch.

I'm into NxT in quite a big way and one of the reasons is that I see POS as a huge leap forward over POW, regardless of the flawed arguments that digitalindustry has trotted out on this thread. The "distribution" issue can be solved in more ways than mining - markets is one of them.

But more than that, most of the criticisms levelled at NXT are based in plain and simple jealousy and not even veiled jealousy at that. People just don't think it "reasonable" that early stakeholders make that much gain with such a small amount of pain (or so it would seem in retrospect - it wasn't the case at the time which is something the desperate critics must to overlook in their little toytown ethics-police role). Yet they seem to think it reasonable that if they get "in on a coin" early at low difficulty and then sell a month later at a 10,000% gain, that's ok.

Well I'm afraid they'll just have to swallow it. Scam or not, it's here, was brought into existence by totally legitimate means, is growing, innovating and being healthily traded.

digitalindustry and cohorts will keep wailing and throwing their toys out of the pram for a good while yet no doubt, but they were doing that way back in January saying the coin would be "dead" in 6 weeks. Those remarks are now being seen for the nonsense that they were and so will the ones being made today.

{sigh} ok thanks, A+ for effort

now just go an learn about cryptocurrency i suggest starting with a blog like mine, use your favorite search engine.

you will be amazed what you can learn, good luck !

[toknormal]

now just go an learn about cryptocurrency i suggest starting with a blog like mine, use your favorite search engine.

you will be amazed what you can learn, good luck !

I'm not taking issue with your opinions on cryptocurrenies - everyone is entitled to their opinions even though they may differ from mine.

I'm taking issue with your definition of the word "scam", which has nothing to do with cryptocurrencies, and your excessive use of that term to make a lazy argument against crypto assets you don't personally like. I'm saying you've never remotely made the case that justifies that accusation.

P.S. "sudo" is spelled "pseudo" outside of a command line. For an education blog you sure could do with a spell checker  

[digitalindustry]

now just go an learn about cryptocurrency i suggest starting with a blog like mine, use your favorite search engine.

you will be amazed what you can learn, good luck !

I'm not taking issue with your opinions on cryptocurrenies - everyone is entitled to their opinions even though they may differ from mine.

I'm taking issue with your definition of the word "scam", which has nothing to do with cryptocurrencies, and your excessive use of that term to make a lazy argument against crypto assets you don't personally like. I'm saying you've never remotely made the case that justifies that accusation.

P.S. "sudo" is spelled "pseudo" outside of a command line. For an education blog you sure could do with a spell checker  

i'm happy with "sudo" but thanks for the tip ! i will fix that! 

now maybe i can help you learn? :

"one CPU one vote"

who said it?

[ShroomsKit_Disgrace]

@Toknormal,

Why did you waste your time elaborating such a nice post in the thread created by a mentally ill individual? Did you see his answer to it? Hope you learn the lesson...

BTW, why the fuck I am wasting my time right now? 

[devphp]

@Toknormal,

Why did you waste your time elaborating such a nice post in the thread created by a mentally ill individual? Did you see his answer to it? Hope you learn the lesson...

BTW, why the fuck I am wasting my time right now? 

Why the fuck am I wasting my time reading you guys in this thread? (I already put digitalindustry on ignore)

[toknormal]

now maybe i can help you learn? :

"one CPU one vote"

who said it?

Sakoshi Nakamoto said that, and I don't have any problem with it. It is the philosophy that underpins the Proof of Work algo, but it doesn't underpin the basis of money in general.

That's where we possibly differ.

POS coins are no different from plastic tokens at a funfair - valueless until adopted as an accepted token of monetary exchange, at which point they acquire monetary value, just the same as any other token would whether it be a tally stick, funfair token, govpaper, or chewing gum card.

If you're saying that the fact that POS breaks the one CPU one vote principle is the basis for your accusation of "scam", then I think you're on very weak ground, for 2 reasons:

 - that principle only applies in the domain of POW crypto currencies
 - the common understanding of the word "scam" is an unequal exchange. i.e. I take your money and in exchange give you a commodity of significantly less value that you are **not able to trade away**

That's where I think you are unjustified in maligning other cryptocurrencies on this basis, because this is demonstrably not the case and has never been so.

[digitalindustry]

@Toknormal,

Why did you waste your time elaborating such a nice post in the thread created by a mentally ill individual? Did you see his answer to it? Hope you learn the lesson...

BTW, why the fuck I am wasting my time right now? 

i was wondering when you would come to that ?

by replying, you are bumping the topic to the top of the front page and thus exposing your scam to many more people, this is not the best way to conduct a scam.

a gypsy trick like this one will need to be much better hidden.

[digitalindustry]

now maybe i can help you learn? :

"one CPU one vote"

who said it?

Sakoshi Nakamoto said that, and I don't have any problem with it. It is the philosophy that underpins the Proof of Work algo, but it doesn't underpin the basis of money in general.

That's where we possibly differ.

POS coins are no different from plastic tokens at a funfair - valueless until adopted as an accepted token of monetary exchange, at which point they acquire monetary value, just the same as any other token would whether it be a tally stick, funfair token, govpaper, or chewing gum card.

If you're saying that the fact that POS breaks the one CPU one vote principle is the basis for your accusation of "scam", then I think you're on very weak ground, for 2 reasons:

 - that principle only applies in the domain of POW crypto currencies
 - the common understanding of the word "scam" is an unequal exchange. i.e. I take your money and in exchange give you a commodity of significantly less value that you are **not able to trade away**

That's where I think you are unjustified in maligning other cryptocurrencies on this basis, because this is demonstrably not the case and has never been so.

indeed my rational sock puppet friend.  is it ok if i call you that?  it seems like "EvilDave" was the "friendly" sock puppet the other one was the "threatening" one ha ha, and you are the "rationalizing" one?

so you are trying to "rationalize" that :

1 Billion NXT units given to 73 addresses is ok?

BLOCK    :   2680262203532249785
Timestamp   :   24.11.2013 13:00:00
Height   :   0
Next Block   :   6556228577102711328
Previous Block   :   0
Pay Load Length   :   9344 B
Num. Transactions   :   73
Total Fee   :   0
Base Target   :   100.00 %
Total Amount   :   1,000,000,000 NXT
Generator Account   :   1739068987193023818
Generator RS    :   NXT-MRCC-2YLS-8M54-3CMAJ
Version   :   -1
Perma Link   :   Show
Block SIgnature : 69d426c498b70ac6d1678180356527c1fee030ad732fbf7672c2266d166a4c08cf8fdeb4524fd1b 496bbcaab03fa6e67760f6da452251402249015486c487211
Generation Signature : 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Previous Block Hash : n/a
Payload Hash : 72c8a92efffbd8695a866eabb13ca460a2f7cdf3283b82efb163360d6eec9469

what i'm saying is that PoW distribution that tries to adhere to the "one CPU one Vote" principal obviously avoids this sort of obvious scam.

you are trying to somehow confuse and "Rationalize" in PoS - where i'm not talking about PoS at all, its flawed indeed but thats not what is at issue here.

i'm talking about making 1 Billion units of something and "fake" giving it to yourself.  then doubling down and making your own exchange (Wall St Style) and bidding it up.

[toknormal]

so you are trying to "rationalize" that :

1 Billion NXT units given to 73 addresses is ok?

It's a matter of opinion whether it's "ok" or not.

What it categorically isn't is a "scam".

indeed my rational sock puppet friend

Feel free to check my posting history of you think I'm a "sockpuppet". That isn't much of challenge given that you've spent a significant acrage of forum space over to maligning, without much basis, a perfectly good crypto currency project which now has the input of hundreds of creative hands and is traded fairly on the open market.