Green Laser Pointers *400/600/800/1000/2000MW (Refund if seized)

[surebet]

There are a bunch of actual legitimate use cases for stupid powerful lasers, aka class 4s.

Laser medicine has a whole bunch of uses:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_medicine
Don't try these at home.

There are many different applications in manufacturing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_beam_machining
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_cutting
There's potential home use here; a relatively benign application is a 2D router laser cutter. Personally I'd start out with something a bit easier like putting a dremel in there, lasers add a legit scary fire hazard to the equation. Containment is also a high priority, because you need to make sure that a stray reflection is in no way putting your eyes (or other people's) at risk.

This brings us to our first PPE side note; ANSI Z136, learn it, love it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_safety#Regulations

Quick primer on PPE:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_safety#Safety_measures
You want wavelenght and power specific eye protection in all cases with class 3B or above laser, and skin protection for class 4.

You want quality, certified PPE. For example, lower class 4 lasers would make me consider at least OD6 protection to cover accidental exposure:
http://www.lasersafety.com/eyewear/polycarbonate/p5e01

Prolonged exposure, higher power and other variables will affect the OD rating required. You are also required to put in similarly rated material in any aperture or viewing window on your laser cutting table.

DO NOT TRUST YOUR SAFETY OR THE SAFETY OF THOSE AROUND YOU BY USING CHEAP, UNCERTIFIED PPE OR OTHER SAFETY EQUIPMENT. If you are unsure of what you need, join a relevant forum and ask for resources and advice.

Beyond that there are plenty of other uses for lasers, but the need for a class 4 laser is debatable at best. A class 3 or even 2B will be plenty for the amateur science dabbler. Same goes for any sane astronomy uses. Definitively stick to class 2B for presentations or messing around with your pets.

Beyond that, just going outside at night with a modest 5mW green laser is tons of fun, so long as you stay courteous to anyone else around you, aka not fucking pointing the beams at people to scare them as certain people *cough*the idiot seller*cough* suggest.

When you've gotten a feel for the various safety issues and what specific project you want to take on, then you build up. Just going 5mW->10mW gives you an appreciable gain in performance, but as you approach 100mW you need to start to seriously think about containment because you have a beam that is an imminent health hazard at short range and a possible distraction tens of miles out.

Going out and just getting a big fuck off class 4 laser without a) a specific application, b) a functional understanding of safety issues and PPE, and c) actual use of proper PPE is beyond insane.

Add to that a whole bunch of issues you have no idea even exists, such as how much IR you laser is spilling. Cheaper models will even have unaligned/ineffective/straight up absent IR filter, which means you could potentially be putting out an order of magnitude more power than you expected, and if your PPE doesn't account for this secondary output wavelength you are in imminent danger.

I could go on and on but tl;dr if you don't know what you're doing, grab a 5mW 532nm green laser to play around with, join a laser enthusiast community and build up from there.

[balanghai]

This is fun!

[surebet]

And as a quick addendum, Nd:YAG lasers in 532nm don't have a whole bunch of uses beyond being the most practical wavelength for high visibility applications. At 88% efficiency from the optimal 555nm frequency it has the very cool advantage of allowing for decent usability (ie a laser pointer) in a very modest power output footprint (ideally <1mW to stay around class 2, or <5mW for 2B).

Actual industrial uses require you to kick up the output by several orders of magnitude into the low kW range, aka death star levels of power.

For the laser router I mentioned above, something else entirely is required like a CO2 laser. At 30-40mw it's still a class 4 laser, but it'll allow you to make cuts at a massively more reasonable power level.

http://www.synrad.com/vseries/v_series.pdf

What can you use the lasers advertised for sale here for? Pretty much nothing, at least safely. A fixed unit with proper heat management, actual interlocks and much less accidental changes in orientation could be used for a bunch of things. A handheld model is not only less safe, but makes serious compromises in output stability/power management/heat management/bunch of other stuff to be mobile and self-contained.

Fucking seriously, a 2W 532nm as sold here has the power to cause immediate and permanent retinal damage, if not outright blindness, and a ridiculous range up to like a mile and a half. It'll cause a degressive amounts of hopefully temporary blindness or partial vision loss (ie day/week long) up to 5-7 miles.

Beyond that, it's visible up to like 50 miles, so who knows where it'll end up.

Using that kind of output outside of a really, really controlled environment with mass amounts of redundant safety measures is criminally negligent at best. You will cause harm to someone.

[haploid23]

Wow OP, pretty unprofessional way to deal with some of your customers. That, and also the fact that these are drop shipped from another source has turned me off from probably getting one. Still following this thread for updates from those that will be receiving these.

[DebitMe]

Wow OP, pretty unprofessional way to deal with some of your customers. That, and also the fact that these are drop shipped from another source has turned me off from probably getting one. Still following this thread for updates from those that will be receiving these.

The OP and I corrected my issue through PM and I got a tracking number for my 2000mw laser yesterday.  I am not sure if there was just miscommunication on my part or what, but I am happy to say that I am getting what I wanted, and am happy with my purchase.  If this one arrives and everything works to specifications, I may get a lower powered one.

[surebet]

Wow OP, pretty unprofessional way to deal with some of your customers. That, and also the fact that these are drop shipped from another source has turned me off from probably getting one. Still following this thread for updates from those that will be receiving these.

The OP and I corrected my issue through PM and I got a tracking number for my 2000mw laser yesterday.  I am not sure if there was just miscommunication on my part or what, but I am happy to say that I am getting what I wanted, and am happy with my purchase.  If this one arrives and everything works to specifications, I may get a lower powered one.

If I might ask, what is your intended use for such a powerful laser?

[armin22]

Wow OP, pretty unprofessional way to deal with some of your customers. That, and also the fact that these are drop shipped from another source has turned me off from probably getting one. Still following this thread for updates from those that will be receiving these.

The OP and I corrected my issue through PM and I got a tracking number for my 2000mw laser yesterday.  I am not sure if there was just miscommunication on my part or what, but I am happy to say that I am getting what I wanted, and am happy with my purchase.  If this one arrives and everything works to specifications, I may get a lower powered one.

If I might ask, what is your intended use for such a powerful laser?

Burning off his nipples.

[DebitMe]

Wow OP, pretty unprofessional way to deal with some of your customers. That, and also the fact that these are drop shipped from another source has turned me off from probably getting one. Still following this thread for updates from those that will be receiving these.

The OP and I corrected my issue through PM and I got a tracking number for my 2000mw laser yesterday.  I am not sure if there was just miscommunication on my part or what, but I am happy to say that I am getting what I wanted, and am happy with my purchase.  If this one arrives and everything works to specifications, I may get a lower powered one.

If I might ask, what is your intended use for such a powerful laser?

This one is just to have.  My family has always had fun with lasers at the beach, and I figured this would be fun for when we go to Hawaii this winter, but I am starting to think this one may be to powerful and I might also order a lower powered one.  But it never hurts, I can use it for self protection in my apartment, since i am not allowed to have a loaded gun per the complex's rules.  This would be a good second.

[armin22]

Wow OP, pretty unprofessional way to deal with some of your customers. That, and also the fact that these are drop shipped from another source has turned me off from probably getting one. Still following this thread for updates from those that will be receiving these.

The OP and I corrected my issue through PM and I got a tracking number for my 2000mw laser yesterday.  I am not sure if there was just miscommunication on my part or what, but I am happy to say that I am getting what I wanted, and am happy with my purchase.  If this one arrives and everything works to specifications, I may get a lower powered one.

If I might ask, what is your intended use for such a powerful laser?

This one is just to have.  My family has always had fun with lasers at the beach, and I figured this would be fun for when we go to Hawaii this winter, but I am starting to think this one may be to powerful and I might also order a lower powered one.  But it never hurts, I can use it for self protection in my apartment, since i am not allowed to have a loaded gun per the complex's rules.  This would be a good second.

Be careful, apparently you need special glasses to handle these.

[DebitMe]

Wow OP, pretty unprofessional way to deal with some of your customers. That, and also the fact that these are drop shipped from another source has turned me off from probably getting one. Still following this thread for updates from those that will be receiving these.

The OP and I corrected my issue through PM and I got a tracking number for my 2000mw laser yesterday.  I am not sure if there was just miscommunication on my part or what, but I am happy to say that I am getting what I wanted, and am happy with my purchase.  If this one arrives and everything works to specifications, I may get a lower powered one.

If I might ask, what is your intended use for such a powerful laser?

This one is just to have.  My family has always had fun with lasers at the beach, and I figured this would be fun for when we go to Hawaii this winter, but I am starting to think this one may be to powerful and I might also order a lower powered one.  But it never hurts, I can use it for self protection in my apartment, since i am not allowed to have a loaded gun per the complex's rules.  This would be a good second.

Be careful, apparently you need special glasses to handle these.

You do not need them if you very careful, they are advised though.  Just don't point them at reflective surfaces and you'll be fine.  In fact, outdoor use in general is probably just safer.

[surebet]

This one is just to have.  My family has always had fun with lasers at the beach, and I figured this would be fun for when we go to Hawaii this winter, but I am starting to think this one may be to powerful and I might also order a lower powered one.  But it never hurts, I can use it for self protection in my apartment, since i am not allowed to have a loaded gun per the complex's rules.  This would be a good second.

You do not need them if you very careful, they are advised though.  Just don't point them at reflective surfaces and you'll be fine.  In fact, outdoor use in general is probably just safer.

Enjoy your blindness and/or multiple felonious assault charges.

[DebitMe]

This one is just to have.  My family has always had fun with lasers at the beach, and I figured this would be fun for when we go to Hawaii this winter, but I am starting to think this one may be to powerful and I might also order a lower powered one.  But it never hurts, I can use it for self protection in my apartment, since i am not allowed to have a loaded gun per the complex's rules.  This would be a good second.

You do not need them if you very careful, they are advised though.  Just don't point them at reflective surfaces and you'll be fine.  In fact, outdoor use in general is probably just safer.

Enjoy your blindness and/or multiple felonious assault charges.

I wish you would do some research before (and not just you, but everyone who is ill informed) spouting nonsense.  I can only be blinded if it hits me in the eye, well, how about I don't shine it in my eye?  And what felonious charges do you speak of?  Cite some precedent where it is illegal to own one of these?  You cannot, so you must be talking about being moronic enough to shine at either an airplane, another person, and animal, a cop, a driver...etc...  How stupid do you believe humanity is?  It really is none of your business my intentions with it.  But please do not harass me if your ill informed.  If someone is stupid enough to shine these at the aforementioned, then they deserve their punishment, and your small post will hardly deter them, but I will not get in any kind of trouble and I hardly need you telling me where I am right or wrong.  Go FUD elsewhere please.

[haploid23]

Not to defend him or anything, but I think he means that you might accidentally cause eye damage to another person or animal. Even the scattered light from the laser off of shiny surfaces, like water or buildings, might be enough to cause damage, it doesn't have to be a full beam.

[DebitMe]

Not to defend him or anything, but I think he means that you might accidentally cause eye damage to another person or animal. Even the scattered light from the laser off of shiny surfaces, like water or buildings, might be enough to cause damage, it doesn't have to be a full beam.

I completely agree, and that is a good warning.  But coming in, and making yourself sound uneducated by throwing things around the way he did, is not the way to go about saying that.  But in all honesty, if someone is buying something like this, and doesn't know how to handle it, is the best way to handle it to say, "have fun blinding yourself and going to jail?"  No that makes you sound like a jackass.

[surebet]

This one is just to have.  My family has always had fun with lasers at the beach, and I figured this would be fun for when we go to Hawaii this winter, but I am starting to think this one may be to powerful and I might also order a lower powered one.  But it never hurts, I can use it for self protection in my apartment, since i am not allowed to have a loaded gun per the complex's rules.  This would be a good second.

You do not need them if you very careful, they are advised though.  Just don't point them at reflective surfaces and you'll be fine.  In fact, outdoor use in general is probably just safer.

Enjoy your blindness and/or multiple felonious assault charges.

I wish you would do some research before (and not just you, but everyone who is ill informed) spouting nonsense.  I can only be blinded if it hits me in the eye, well, how about I don't shine it in my eye?  And what felonious charges do you speak of?  Cite some precedent where it is illegal to own one of these?  You cannot, so you must be talking about being moronic enough to shine at either an airplane, another person, and animal, a cop, a driver...etc...  How stupid do you believe humanity is?  It really is none of your business my intentions with it.  But please do not harass me if your ill informed.  If someone is stupid enough to shine these at the aforementioned, then they deserve their punishment, and your small post will hardly deter them, but I will not get in any kind of trouble and I hardly need you telling me where I am right or wrong.  Go FUD elsewhere please.

I might have misconstrued the bit about your family and the beach as intent to use it in a public place with other people present. Then again, the bits about using it in a self-defence context and not really needing PPE while using a huge fuck off class 4 laser tell me you don't actually understand safe handling of these things.

But whatever, FUD FUD FUD, it's not like the obviously knowledgeable people in this thread have any kind of actual experience in the safe handling of these things. Nah, the reason why were advising ANSI Z136 compliance is because we're fuddy duddies.

You go right on with your plans to toy around with something that can cause immediate blindness a mile away. All you need to do is be really careful, because a beach doesn't combine huge bodies of reflective liquid, near unlimited horizontal range and the presence of plenty of people.

You can also feel free to ignore the following legal mumbo jumbo, because really, you've firmly established you won't get into any trouble.

Of course using a 2W laser as a pointer is ok, ignore the FDA!
21 CFR 1040.10
21 CFR 1040.11

Of course you know all the flight paths of all the planes, ignore the US code!
HR386

Beyond that, ignore the vast amount of state specific industrial regulations, ownership and usage regulations and any number of relevant jurisprudence cases regarding the negligent use of whatever. Again, it's not like your 2W laser has a miles and miles of range at a power level that can cause irreparable bodily harm.

Also anyone in charge of applying OSHA regulation anywhere is actually secret Hitler.

Have fun!

[surebet]

I wish you would do some research before (and not just you, but everyone who is ill informed) spouting nonsense.

Here a great opportunity to show off all that research you done did about lasers!

How do you plan to address the 1064nm leakage coming from improper or absent filtering after Q-switching the original emission via it's non-linear KTP crystal, without the use of wavelength specific PPE or the use of your blink reflex, in a context of high divergence scattering?

Feel free to put the phrase "localized ocular explosive boiling" somewhere in your reply.

TIA

[DebitMe]

At work right now, so I really don't have time to look at all of that, but you do seem to have done some research (past copying and pasting I have no idea), but that doesn't matter.  They are not illegal to own in the United States, and proper care will keep one safe.

Besides, we all know they work like this
https://i.imgur.com/ton5Pwz.gif

[zhinkk]

I wish you would do some research before (and not just you, but everyone who is ill informed) spouting nonsense.

Here a great opportunity to show off all that research you done did about lasers!

How do you plan to address the 1064nm leakage coming from improper or absent filtering after Q-switching the original emission via it's non-linear KTP crystal, without the use of wavelength specific PPE or the use of your blink reflex, in a context of high divergence scattering?

Feel free to put the phrase "localized ocular explosive boiling" somewhere in your reply.

TIA

I'm very understudied in this field. But can I take a stab at this? I'm probably very wrong, but I want to learn. A lot of this is studied from wikipedia and other sources so it might not be accurate. Please don't think I am knowledgeable in this field, I am very new and a complete noob. I'm just putting together some research and things surebet has told me.

A 532nm green laser is not all 532nm wavelength of light. There is 1064nm leakage that accompanies it (known as IR). This is generally undesired because unlike the visible 532nm of green light which causes our blink reflexes to close our eyes in the case of the laser hitting our eyes, 1064nm wavelength IR is not part of visible light, so our eyes's blink reflexes do not work in the same manner. Sometimes, we might not even know our eyes have been hit with high amounts of IR immediately. A sign of our eyes being exposed to 1064nm wavelength radiation is the "pop" or "click" noise that comes from our eyeball. This happens when the retina is heated over 100C, and is known as localized explosive boiling. This is accompanied by the creation of a permanent blind spot. I am not sure how to address this without wavelength specific PPE, but other than being sure the laser you are purchasing has high amounts of 532nm wavelength of light and lower amounts of IR (1064nm), some ways to address this would be to buy proper eye protection that will protect you from both the visible green light (~532nm) and the IR (1064nm). I am still not very knowledgable about the standards of safety glases, but some things to look for are high OD levels (optical density) which is a measure of how much radiation can pass through. I'm assuming the higher this is the better? OD 4+ sounds decent to me. Are there any drawbacks to extremely high OD levels? Also certifications are important. I think the two main are OSHA and ANSI (Z136?).


I'm sure I'm very wrong. Please correct me!

[surebet]

At work right now, so I really don't have time to look at all of that, but you do seem to have done some research (past copying and pasting I have no idea), but that doesn't matter.  They are not illegal to own in the United States, and proper care will keep one safe.

Besides, we all know they work like this
https://i.imgur.com/ton5Pwz.gif

At no point have said that these lasers are illegal.

The FDA said that, bunch of freedom hating commies.

What is a laser pointer?
Laser pointers are hand-held lasers that are promoted for pointing out objects or locations. Such laser products can meet one of two definitions for laser products. The first is for “surveying, leveling, and alignment laser products” as defined by Title 21 of the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) Section 1040.10(b)(39):

“Surveying, leveling, or alignment laser product means a laser product manufactured, designed, intended or promoted for one or more of the following uses:
(i) Determining and delineating the form, extent, or position of a point, body, or area by taking angular measurement.
(ii) Positioning or adjusting parts in proper relation to one another.
(iii) Defining a plane, level, elevation, or straight line.”

Hand-held lasers promoted for entertainment purposes or amusement also meet the second definition, that of “demonstration laser products” as defined by 21 CFR 1040.10(b)(13):

“Demonstration laser product means a laser product manufactured, designed, intended, or promoted for purposes of demonstration, entertainment, advertising display, or artistic composition.”

If a laser product is promoted for pointing purposes, either of these definitions can apply.

Does FDA have a mandatory limit on the power emitted by laser pointers?
Yes. Laser products promoted for pointing and demonstration purposes are limited to hazard Class IIIa by FDA regulation.

21 CFR 1040.11(b) and 1040.11(c), limit surveying, leveling, and alignment, and demonstration laser products to Class IIIa. This means that pointers are limited to 5 milliwatts output power in the visible wavelength range from 400 to 710 nanometers. There are also limits for any invisible wavelengths and for short pulses. Pointers may not exceed the accessible emission limits of CDRH Class IIIa or IEC1 Class 3R.¸

Oops. You also have further regulatory compliance issues such as the obligation to have a keyed interlock on Class 3B an above lasers and a bunch of other things cheap Chinese lasers don't implement.

Can your ridiculous laser make it through customs? It's quite possible, especially if the shipper bullshits his way through form 2877 in the importation process. Of course it's going to have a non-compliant class 3a sticker on it, just in case.

However since May 2014 both the FDA and the CBP are ramping up compliance checks. There are currently 89 companies and 100 originating addresses have been redlisted with regards to laser exportation misconduct.

Right now 21CFR1005.3 only states that your shit is going to get seized so whatever I guess. There is legislation being debated and a serious ramp up in enforcement.

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/MedicalDevices/DeviceRegulationandGuidance/GuidanceDocuments/UCM395499.pdf
http://media.ca8.uscourts.gov/opndir/14/06/132728P.pdf
http://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-launches-national-campaign-to-address-laser-threat-to-aircraft

Now please amuse me further by explaining what "proper care" means.

[DebitMe]

You keep quoting laws and regulations for manufacturers, not for end users.  aka, they do not apply to anyone in this thread (besides possibly OP, but he isn't even manufacturing them).  You will not get your laser taken away if your caught with it, and it does not meet the standards you have quoted.  So I am not sure what you are attacking here?  It seems to be directed at me, but all I have said is that they are not illegal for people to own or use, which you have agreed with, then you have gone on citing regulations that have no relation to the topic (and are a simple google search away).

So not really sure what your getting at here as nothing you have said affects me in any way?