Bitcoin Conference 2012- London 15-16 Sept | ANNOUNCEMENT sponsorship available!

[Transisto]

It seems like not everyone agree that Amir has handled the problem as he should have had and that there remain a significant risk that the the conference will be used as a tribune on this matter.

Transisto, before Bitcoinica, I had no problems with you and thought you a good person (I still do and don't blame you for being upset over it). But what should I have done differently? You do realise that I have no control over anything.

If I don't organise the conference, then it won't happen. It is my experience and knowledge of this opensource-world, conferences and organising other events that means I know how to create a conference. You're essentially saying that there should be no conference because Bitcoinica lost money and I was affiliated with Bitcoinica? That seems pointless. I'm essentially doing this for free anyway.

Bitcoinica is all in the hands of business people and lawyers now. The reason I took a long hiatus is because it was seriously effecting my mental health. Several people started to tell me to take time out, but I wouldn't listen to them. Eventually it got too much, and I took their advice. I would've been a broken person unable to do anything otherwise. ...

Not willing to follow you on an argument about Bitcoinica "here",  I'm not saying "that there should be no conference" but that the risk of it being a issue is real and should not be sent to off-topic.  I think it would be a necessity for you to make well though of post summarizing your involvement in Bitcoinica BEFORE the conference, It has gotten very tiresome to hear from all sides "I' ve nothing to do with it" maybe telling us who does would ease the pain. I know, you just did, but here was not the place and your words don't seems well chosen given what we are going through.

Here, a post I made 2 weeks ago replying to a boycott suggestion, (obviously, left in the dark, didn't take into account your lack of possible involvement) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=97272.msg1074453#msg1074453

[genjix]

My personal role (not the Consultancy or anyone else's):

- Design a new hedging algorithm for Bitcoinica because the existing one was losing Tihan a lot of money for the last few months.

More here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93319.msg1038189#msg1038189

[Transisto]

My personal role (not the Consultancy or anyone else's):

- Design a new hedging algorithm for Bitcoinica because the existing one was losing Tihan a lot of money for the last few months.

Among others things, you have taken onto your shoulder to be Intersango's spoke person on the matter of [Payout Updates] and the hacks.

And I think you definitely failed at this and having anyone at Intersango to give meaningful updates.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=84042.0

[DarkEmi]

It did get pretty heavy at one point, but what carried me through was random emails/PMs (reddit, forum, irc) of kindness and support. I never had something like that happen in my life before and it was very touching. Like random strangers on the internet. That was something else. There was one guy even who we exchanged long emails back and forth.

And yet you did not even respond to one of my mails. Was I not depressed enough for you ?

For me tbh, I could care less about people like Roger Ver who have a lot of money lost because they have lots more. What really gets me are the people who sent messages like "help! I invested all my money and now i'm borrowing to survive." That's really soul crushing. money is just numbers and w/e. But when it hurts someone physically, that's totally unacceptable to me.

This is really disrespectful. "This guy has more money so who cares if he lost some".
Do you know they are people living in the world with much less than you have ? Still how would you feel if someone took you half your money ?

Money is just number is an easier position to hold when you are not the one loosing the money. Do you know what MINE money feel to me ?
For me money is not just "some number". It is sweat and hard work, my hard work.

You seems to feel no guilt for the release of the database that preceded the hack.

I wanted to go to the conference. Do you know how I feel now sending you 40e now that I have lost 60k ?

[MemoryDealers]

For me tbh, I could care less about people like Roger Ver who have a lot of money lost because they have lots more.

Amir,  I look forward to karma coming back to get you.
Believe it or not,  losing 24,000 BTC because of an idiot like you, HAS HAD A BIG BIG IMPACT ON MY LIFE!
People with attitudes like yours give a bad reputation to our entire movement.

Do the world a favor and quit your involvement with Bitcoin.

Sincerely,
Roger Ver

[Yankee (BitInstant)]

For me tbh, I could care less about people like Roger Ver who have a lot of money lost because they have lots more.

Amir,  I look forward to karma coming back to get you.
Believe it or not,  losing 24,000 BTC because of an idiot like you, HAS HAD A BIG BIG IMPACT ON MY LIFE!
People with attitudes like yours give a bad reputation to our entire movement.

Do the world a favor and quit your involvement with Bitcoin.

Sincerely,
Roger Ver

Amir,

I've refrained from getting involved at this point, but how dare you say something like this.

For me tbh, I could care less about people like Roger Ver who have a lot of money lost because they have lots more.

Do you know how much damn work Roger has done to get where he is today? Do you know how many sacrifices he has made for Bitcoin?

Wait...you don't. Know why?

BECAUSE YOU RELEASED THE GODDAMN SOURCE CODE OF BITCOINICA WHICH HAD THE MTGOX API IN IT WHICH LED TO THE THEFT OF ANOTHER 40K BTC AND WHO KNOWS HOW MANY USD.

Your fault! No one elses! How dare you say "Oh, I need time off." Please, I've heard that bullshit before.

Oh, and next time you trash and break a Segway in Vienna that Alex paid for because some fat girl offers you a hug...DONT RUN AWAY AND LEAVE THE SEGWAY IN THE STREET!!!!!! (true story for whoever wants to know. Roger, Erik and myself were there)

-Charlie

[evoorhees]

For me tbh, I could care less about people like Roger Ver who have a lot of money lost because they have lots more.

Appalling.

[muyuu]

For me tbh, I could care less about people like Roger Ver who have a lot of money lost because they have lots more.

I take it you had another temporal insanity moment when you wrote this, because it is appalling. You could care less that a client lost a lot of money because he has more? Nuts.

[CleverMiner]

Ok, Back on topic.

Since payments for tickets are to be sent to Intersango LTD will you be offering free ticket to your creditors ?
I was to come but it would feel too odd to give Intersango another 70€

Thanks for the consideration.

[ninjarobot]

oh fuck off. Name me one instance where I lied, or conducted myself improperly. Point them to me. It was me who made public all the emails, released publically all the documents/agreements, released the sourcecode and pushed for communications from zhou's first announcement (everyone told me to be quiet). Your thinly veiled threat is pathetic and petty.

No need. You just pointed them out yourself: The release of private correspondence and the leaking of company's proprietary source code do most certainly violate any contracts you had with Bitcoinica LP. I'd hardly call that 'conducting yourself properly'. In addition the leaked source seems to be the direct cause of the MtGox compromise leading to a further loss of USD $350K of customer funds.

[proudhon]

This is...I don't even know what to say.   

[genjix]

That fat girl is a person you know. Why would you insult her when she's an innocent bystander?

I'm not saying I'm happy Roger Ver lost money, but simply that his life is not really impacted in a huge way compared to someone who barely has enough money to survive or eat because they lost it in Bitcoinica. I seem to recall in Vienna that you were talking about renting out an aeroplane. That's a level of extravagance that goes way way over my head. You probably live far more comfortably than the majority of people do including myself. Don't tell me that 25k out of 50k is more of a loss than $200 of $600. That's the difference between homeless and starving, vs surviving.

[Transisto]

That fat girl is a person you know. Why would you insult her when she's an innocent bystander?

I'm not saying I'm happy Roger Ver lost money, but simply that his life is not really impacted in a huge way compared to someone who barely has enough money to survive or eat because they lost it in Bitcoinica. I seem to recall in Vienna that you were talking about renting out an aeroplane. That's a level of extravagance that goes way way over my head. You probably live far more comfortably than the majority of people do including myself. Don't tell me that 25k out of 50k is more of a loss than $200 of $600. That's the difference between homeless and starving, vs surviving.

Please, stop feeding the shit-storm.

This remind me of your Kangaroo court / McDonald coffee analogy,  Beyond irrelevant.

The part people want a response to is everything but this, One of them being why are you proud of having leaked "released" the source code ?

[btcx]

That fat girl is a person you know. Why would you insult her when she's an innocent bystander?

I'm not saying I'm happy Roger Ver lost money, but simply that his life is not really impacted in a huge way compared to someone who barely has enough money to survive or eat because they lost it in Bitcoinica. I seem to recall in Vienna that you were talking about renting out an aeroplane. That's a level of extravagance that goes way way over my head. You probably live far more comfortably than the majority of people do including myself. Don't tell me that 25k out of 50k is more of a loss than $200 of $600. That's the difference between homeless and starving, vs surviving.

Not happy, but you don't give a shit.  Hell, if you could steal from a rich guy to help a poorer guy, you should do it, right?

You don't know what Roger's financial situation is, where that money came from, what it means to him, how many years of his life it represents or how its loss will impact him.  For all you know, Roger had deposited that money on behalf of his poorer friends and family.  Roger has done so much for Bitcoin with his own money that any loss he suffers is surely a loss for the whole Bitcoin community.  Roger would have invested that money in more Bitcoin businesses, used it to fly around the world to evangelize Bitcoin, paid for more radio ads.  That is a lot of money that Roger no longer has to give away in an effort to expand Bitcoin's growth and adoption, which would benefit everyone.

Having a high net worth doesn't mean that you can easily afford to take an unexpected 24,000 BTC loss.  I do pretty well but after a few months went by and Bitcoinica still had not returned my funds, I stopped paying my mortgage so I could continue to pay my employees.  I couldn't make the charitable contribution that I'd promised to the local arts center, which has impacted their programming.  The timing was just about as bad is it could possibly have been.  The problem is that most of my assets are illiquid, and you stole my liquidity, which created a cascade of much more expensive problems that affected a lot more people than just myself.  The amount of money missing for me is not the biggest problem--it's the not having it when I expected to have it.

Your statements just prove further that you should never have been in charge of anyone's money.  I don't know what else to say.  I'm appalled.

[Herodes]

Hm. contemplating if I should go to London again anyway, perhaps you could set up a cage fight ?

Stallmann could be the judge.

[Shadow383]

I found a nice space for the hackathon:

LARC (London Action Resource Centre) has been confirmed and booked as the location for the pre-conference hackathon.

Will this hackathon include the ceremonial quarterly hack and theft of large quantities of Bitcoinica funds?

Hm. contemplating if I should go to London again anyway, perhaps you could set up a cage fight ?

Stallmann could be the judge.

For the good of the conference, I think the intersango guys should just not show up.

I mean hell, if they were currently holding >$300000 of my money, I'd turn up just to confront them over it.

If there's to be any hope of the London conference being remotely normal and civilised, they can't really be there.

[disclaimer201]

Not surprised of the examples given by Amir. He is a very political person, which is usually good but not when you're in charge of a financial service provider. He should not be involved in anything money- or free market related. Very interesting to see what happens in the real world if people with "a lot of money" lose it. Many people suffer! Everything is interconnected. Amir should be sued to compensate for the latest MtGox hack personally and pay up for the rest of his life.

Oh, and fuck your useless conference!

[proudhon]

Seriously, this just seems awkward.  The way the bitcoinica thing has been handled, I couldn't support anything organized by anyone who (mis)managed that mess.

[LoupGaroux]

Not only cannot support it, but sure as hell would not send a single satoshi to them for ticket fees? Wonder what the over/under line is for a hack just before the conference that makes all the ticket fees disappear? This is the clown car full of knuckleheads who have suffered three such hacks and still haven't secured anything.

[Bitcoin Oz]

That fat girl is a person you know. Why would you insult her when she's an innocent bystander?

I'm not saying I'm happy Roger Ver lost money, but simply that his life is not really impacted in a huge way compared to someone who barely has enough money to survive or eat because they lost it in Bitcoinica. I seem to recall in Vienna that you were talking about renting out an aeroplane. That's a level of extravagance that goes way way over my head. You probably live far more comfortably than the majority of people do including myself. Don't tell me that 25k out of 50k is more of a loss than $200 of $600. That's the difference between homeless and starving, vs surviving.

So when did you join Occupy London ?