[ANN] [PMP] PreminePlus Launch ~ New Features! ~ Oct Signup Free Distribution!

[TheLittleDuke]

Being listed on Bittrex is not everything. There were many bad-quality coins listed there that didn't provide much on the development side.
I am not saying that about 2GIVE, to be clear about it. Don't understand me wrong, but I would rather talk about the technical plans/developments rather than talk about Bittrex as the main argument for the valuation rate.

PMP did not apply to Bittrex (and any other exchange) due to the simple fact: we deliberately decided not to apply to any exchange before we have something to offer, some product ready.  In the meantime PMP has been ninja-listed on comkort and lost the main dev twice.

Here's a quick cross-link to the 2016 Strategic roadmap

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=741714.msg14810034#msg14810034

And sure, being on Bittrex is "everything" -- but you have to admit its "something" that PMP doesn't have at the moment -- and no, it's not the only thing 2GIVE has going for it -- but you have to admit, the ability to liquidate is certainly compelling ;-)

Losing your dev -- that's ALSO kind of my point -- *I* am the primary dev on 2GIVE -- and I've put a lot of time, energy and USD into the project -- the ONLY thing I want out of it is the education, experience, streetcred and a live sandbox to tinker with for my next projects, namely "Crowdfunding Equities on a Blockchain" and http://bit.ly/idcoins

Just to put things in perspective -- take a guess how much THIS cost to have produced?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gq8unlnrnnuery0/Give%20Coin.mp4


Let's spin the convo around for a second, if you'll indulge me??

Try and sell me on becoming your new dev!  I would love to hear what you think the value proposition is -- what possible compensation could be offered?  And who is going to offer it?  If it's your tokens, then I would want to know how I could reasonably expect to be able to liquidate them?  

You've got a comatose patient here guys...it's been unresponsive now for how long??

At what point are you going to pull the plug?   Indeed how many of your stakeholders have effectively done that?

Because "hope" is not a strategy :-)

About the only thing I'd volunteer to do at this point is consider adding back in a "mint=0" option to turn off staking and MAYBE enable a sufficient difficult POW block with zero value as a "proof of waste" just to get blocks into the chain for confirmations -- oh and maybe update the seed nodes if necessary.

Just my .02

-dvd

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[uki]

Let's spin the convo around for a second, if you'll indulge me??

Try and sell me on becoming your new dev!  I would love to hear what you think the value proposition is -- what possible compensation could be offered?  And who is going to offer it?  If it's your tokens, then I would want to know how I could reasonably expect to be able to liquidate them?  

You've got a comatose patient here guys...it's been unresponsive now for how long??

At what point are you going to pull the plug?   Indeed how many of your stakeholders have effectively done that?

Because "hope" is not a strategy :-)

About the only thing I'd volunteer to do at this point is consider adding back in a "mint=0" option to turn off staking and MAYBE enable a sufficient difficult POW block with zero value as a "proof of waste" just to get blocks into the chain for confirmations -- oh and maybe update the seed nodes if necessary.

Just my .02

-dvd

this part is quite easy. A common practice for many coins is to offer a bounty for the dev. PMP should be no different here. The dev receives part of the coins that were in the development pot, according to the agreement between the dev in question and the community. Of course, the bounty must be attractive for the dev to motivate him to work, but not too high in order to not give him/her an unfair advantage. This guarantees that once the developed product becomes valuable, the potential reward for the dev should be quite chunky. If it fails, down goes the reward of the dev. This is no different to the fate of starts up, if you understand what I mean. We do not have angel investors (it is difficult to find one), and thus this is what we can offer at the moment (that little that may become that much).

As for your proposed 'modifications'. I believe that PMP has enough features as a coin (fully premined and almost uniformly distributed, purely PoS), and there is no need to have yet another hybrid PoS/PoW to bring the miners for briefly two minutes before they jump on another coin. That is also a very short-sighted view (that I don't like at all) and what is more important that probably won't guarantee any success, as there are already zillions of similar coins. Why another one then?

To me the role of the dev, if someone would like to overtake the challenge, is the following (we have discussed it within our team back about more than a year ago): to develop a variant of a marketing platform that would motivate people to participate in various community actions (thus Proof of Action concept) as a way to earn the remaining PMP that were not yet distributed. Such a platform (spanning different social media) may be used as an advertising product and thus create the real value. I am not saying that is the only way to go, but I would like this project to stick as much as possible to the original idea and have an ambitious objective.

Just my 2PMPs. I wonder, if anybody from the PMP is still around. I believe it is right time to voice your likes/dislikes about the fate of PMP, before it finally disappears.

[TheLittleDuke]

As for your proposed 'modifications'. I believe that PMP has enough features as a coin (fully premined and almost uniformly distributed, purely PoS), and there is no need to have yet another hybrid PoS/PoW to bring the miners for briefly two minutes before they jump on another coin. That is also a very short-sighted view (that I don't like at all) and what is more important that probably won't guarantee any success, as there are already zillions of similar coins. Why another one then?

Setting your offer of the token aside as "reward", since without a business plan and means to liquidate it, I don't see why any developer would spend time and energy getting involved -- tokens don't pay rent and food -- FIAT does -- and for that you need an exchange or you need some future liquidation event.

Your chain doesn't move smoothly -- it seizes up -- there's way too much friction...if it it was so awesome all your stakeholders would leave that wallet running 24x7 -- instead of the what?  3-4 open at any given time??

The proposed non-value added POW block is purely a clocking-source to keep the chain moving -- no one would mine it since there would be no benefit to it other than current PMP owners -- I'd just add it in as an optional feature for any current PMP holder in the wallet to do when idle for the benefit of everyone else in the chain -- just like in 2GIVE you can literally click to turn on POS and POW in your wallet.

You see that's what makes 2GIVE work -- except that here, we have a 1% minimum TXFEE on sends that rewards the POW miners...

Your "proof of action" is on our roadmap first with "Get Confirmed" by taking ownership of your Give* address to then demonstrate your level of commitment to the 2GIVE community instead of ranking people based on how many posts they have.

It sure looks to me that the things you say you want you could have (and more) if you were willing to swap PMP:2GIVE ;-)

I admire your fidelity to PMP -- I really do -- but I just don't quite get the loyalty aspect when it should be a two way street and PMP doesn't seem to be treating you with the same kind of respect ;-)

Anyway...I'll sit back and let you all chat about it -- if you want to do the swap, just PM me with your Give* address and I'll get you a PMP addr in our vault to send coins to -- when they confirm we'll do the swap.

Thanks again for giving me the opportunity to build a bridge between us!

-dvd

[TheLittleDuke]

The wallet we have been using to do the PMP:2GIVE swaps is already staking ;-)

(this wallet is on one of our seed nodes so it's online 24x7)

"You're Welcome PMP holders"  - lol

Code:

coind@seed:~$ ./PreminePlusd getinfo
{
    "version" : "v0.7.7.0",
    "protocolversion" : 60009,
    "walletversion" : 60000,
    "balance" : 602.00000000,
    "newmint" : 0.00000000,
    "stake" : 801.23287600,
    "blocks" : 123466,
    "moneysupply" : 1138252.58186400,
    "connections" : 8,
    "proxy" : "",
    "ip" : "192.169.7.65",
    "difficulty" : 0.00024896,
    "testnet" : false,
    "keypoololdest" : 1462548036,
    "keypoolsize" : 103,
    "paytxfee" : 0.00010000,
    "errors" : "WARNING: Checkpoint is too old. Wait for block chain to download, or notify developers."
}

[jalmari]

The wallet we have been using to do the PMP:2GIVE swaps is already staking ;-)

(this wallet is on one of our seed nodes so it's online 24x7)

"You're Welcome PMP holders"  - lol

Code:

coind@seed:~$ ./PreminePlusd getinfo
{
    "version" : "v0.7.7.0",
    "protocolversion" : 60009,
    "walletversion" : 60000,
    "balance" : 602.00000000,
    "newmint" : 0.00000000,
    "stake" : 801.23287600,
    "blocks" : 123466,
    "moneysupply" : 1138252.58186400,
    "connections" : 8,
    "proxy" : "",
    "ip" : "192.169.7.65",
    "difficulty" : 0.00024896,
    "testnet" : false,
    "keypoololdest" : 1462548036,
    "keypoolsize" : 103,
    "paytxfee" : 0.00010000,
    "errors" : "WARNING: Checkpoint is too old. Wait for block chain to download, or notify developers."
}

Btw, what are you planning to do with these? Burn them?

[TheLittleDuke]

Btw, what are you planning to do with these? Burn them?

I don't know yet -- leave them online for now to help power the network for a bit since we need confirms...

Burning them just rewards the current stakeholders by creating fewer possible tokens, IMHO -- and I'm not a fan of doing that since I don't feel like they really "belong" to me in the first place -- have been wholly unimpressed by CounterParty et al

It's one of the few things that Andreas Antonopoulos and I disagree on.

By holding on to them (for now) -- it gives us a seat at the PMP table to whine and complain ;-)

I'm hoping that we can encourage more PMP holders to take us up on our 2GIVE offer and come and join our economy

-dvd

[uki]

As promised, turned on my wallet after returning home from my week holidays and added some new blocks to move it forward.

[TheLittleDuke]

As promised, turned on my wallet after returning home from my week holidays and added some new blocks to move it forward.

Showing 7 nodes online atm on our seed network...

Code:

coind@seed:~$ ./PreminePlusd getinfo
{
    "version" : "v0.7.7.0",
    "protocolversion" : 60009,
    "walletversion" : 60000,
    "balance" : 806.32054700,
    "newmint" : 0.00000000,
    "stake" : 603.10273900,
    "blocks" : 123560,
    "moneysupply" : 1144436.77907600,
    "connections" : 7,
    "proxy" : "",
    "ip" : "192.169.7.65",
    "difficulty" : 0.00024896,
    "testnet" : false,
    "keypoololdest" : 1462548036,
    "keypoolsize" : 102,
    "paytxfee" : 0.00010000,
    "errors" : "WARNING: Checkpoint is too old. Wait for block chain to download, or notify developers."
}

[uki]

here is the output of my getpeerinfo in case someone needs to add nodes:

Code:

[
{
"addr" : "192.169.7.65:17222",
"services" : "00000001",
"lastsend" : 1463308982,
"lastrecv" : 1463308983,
"conntime" : 1463267703,
"version" : 60009,
"subver" : "/PreminePlus:0.7.7/",
"inbound" : false,
"releasetime" : 0,
"startingheight" : 123537,
"banscore" : 0
},
{
"addr" : "84.200.19.79:17222",
"services" : "00000001",
"lastsend" : 1463308981,
"lastrecv" : 1463308981,
"conntime" : 1463267708,
"version" : 60009,
"subver" : "/PreminePlus:0.7.7/",
"inbound" : false,
"releasetime" : 0,
"startingheight" : 123537,
"banscore" : 0
},
{
"addr" : "90.161.84.133:17222",
"services" : "00000001",
"lastsend" : 1463307738,
"lastrecv" : 1463308981,
"conntime" : 1463267836,
"version" : 60009,
"subver" : "/PreminePlus:0.7.7/",
"inbound" : false,
"releasetime" : 0,
"startingheight" : 123537,
"banscore" : 0
}
]

[TheLittleDuke]

here is the output of my getpeerinfo in case someone needs to add nodes:

Code:

[
{
"addr" : "192.169.7.65:17222",
},
{
"addr" : "84.200.19.79:17222",
},
{
"addr" : "90.161.84.133:17222",
}
]

HA!  Those top two are our 2GIVE "seed" nodes:

Code:

nslookup seed.givecoin.io
Name:	seed.givecoin.io
Address: 192.169.7.65

nslookup seed2.givecoin.io
Name:	seed2.givecoin.io
Address: 84.200.19.79

It's Better 2GIVE ;-)

We'll keep the nodes online as long as PMP holders are willing to swap over 2GIVE -- otherwise, there's not much utility for us to keep them up.

FWIW, 2GIVE just got listed on the Australian BTCPool Exchange:

https://btcpool.exchange/Market?pair=2Give/BTC

[uki]

Btw, what are you planning to do with these? Burn them?

I don't know yet -- leave them online for now to help power the network for a bit since we need confirms...

Burning them just rewards the current stakeholders by creating fewer possible tokens, IMHO -- and I'm not a fan of doing that since I don't feel like they really "belong" to me in the first place -- have been wholly unimpressed by CounterParty et al

It's one of the few things that Andreas Antonopoulos and I disagree on.

By holding on to them (for now) -- it gives us a seat at the PMP table to whine and complain ;-)

I'm hoping that we can encourage more PMP holders to take us up on our 2GIVE offer and come and join our economy

-dvd

I am curious why did you choose PMP?
there is plenty of other abandoned coins around to choose from. Is there anything special about current PMP status, or do you plan some actions after taking over significant share of coins?
That last question goes in the direction of the one cited above: if you are not burning the coins from swap, what do you plan to do with them?

[KLONE]

I am curious why did you choose PMP?
there is plenty of other abandoned coins around to choose from. Is there anything special about current PMP status, or do you plan some actions after taking over significant share of coins?
That last question goes in the direction of the one cited above: if you are not burning the coins from swap, what do you plan to do with them?

 I was thinking the same thing, why not burn the PMP?

[TheLittleDuke]

I am curious why did you choose PMP?
there is plenty of other abandoned coins around to choose from. Is there anything special about current PMP status, or do you plan some actions after taking over significant share of coins?
That last question goes in the direction of the one cited above: if you are not burning the coins from swap, what do you plan to do with them?

That is a REALLY good question!

PMP was brought to my attention by one of founders of http://watchmybit.com -- long time ALT miner/investor -- he hangs out on the Crypto Currency Collectors & Speculators Facebook page.

He was asking what made 2GIVE different from PMP and if I had designed/solved some of the problems that PMP had -- so I took a look!

Let's just say I saw a "kindred spirit" in the coinbase.

We're going to hold on them and not burn them, because that fundamentally (in theory) improves the value/worth of the remaining PMP -- philosophically I don't agree with "burns" -- I don't believe that treats assets with the respect they deserve -- nor do I really think that they are mine to destroy -- this is something that I fundamentally do not agree with several BTC community members on.

The same reason we did not burn all the GIVE 1.0 -- we do NOT want it coming back -- so in effect we have an "existential threat" if you will to anyone who tries to resurrect it -- the minute it got listed we could dump it.

PMP isn't "special" -- you're just one of the first "dead alts" that I'm chasing to find and build the 2GIVE community - already had a swap in place with CleanWaterCoin (WATER) since we had a strong affinity and relationship with that coinbase -- and support from Zach the founder.

These "swaps" are just my form of "marketing" for the coinbase.

And now that we're live on Bittrex, the equation (and marketcap) conversation could change dramatically ;-)

https://bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-2GIVE

[uki]

Duke, thanks for the update.
Can you please post the instructions for the swap for completeness and can you comment on how the swap procedure looks in terms of safety for both ends. Is there any escrow involved?

[TheLittleDuke]

Duke, thanks for the update.
Can you please post the instructions for the swap for completeness and can you comment on how the swap procedure looks in terms of safety for both ends. Is there any escrow involved?

1. Download the 2GIVE wallet (or build from source)

http://2Give.Info/#download

2. PM me your Give* address that gets created the first time the wallet runs

3. I will generate a PMP swap address for you to send your coins to and send that back in the PM

4. After you send coins, give me a heads up -- with one confirm on PMP I'll send 10x  that amount to your Give* address

No escrow involved other than backed by my personal reputation -- I'm not anonymous http://linkedin.com/in/dvduccini

And trust me if you decide you want your PMP back I'll be happy to send them anytime before I send the 2GIVE ;-)

-dvd

[KLONE]

Duke, thanks for the update.
Can you please post the instructions for the swap for completeness and can you comment on how the swap procedure looks in terms of safety for both ends. Is there any escrow involved?

@uki, are you swapping yourself?

[TheLittleDuke]

I think this speaks for itself in terms of why we say:

"It's Better 2GIVE!"

(Who's the PIG?? lol)

[uki]

Duke, thanks for the update.
Can you please post the instructions for the swap for completeness and can you comment on how the swap procedure looks in terms of safety for both ends. Is there any escrow involved?

@uki, are you swapping yourself?

I don't want to influence anybody's decision. Myself, I thought I would give it a try.

[jalmari]

Duke, thanks for the update.
Can you please post the instructions for the swap for completeness and can you comment on how the swap procedure looks in terms of safety for both ends. Is there any escrow involved?

@uki, are you swapping yourself?

I don't want to influence anybody's decision. Myself, I thought I would give it a try.

I can tell that I swapped most of my coins and everything went smoothly!

[TheLittleDuke]

Duke, thanks for the update.
Can you please post the instructions for the swap for completeness and can you comment on how the swap procedure looks in terms of safety for both ends. Is there any escrow involved?

@uki, are you swapping yourself?

I don't want to influence anybody's decision. Myself, I thought I would give it a try.

I can tell that I swapped most of my coins and everything went smoothly!

Once the sand got out of the gears on the chain :-)

SERIOUSLY guys...I don't know why all the PMP <3 here -- this chain doesn't treat you with the same kind of respect that you're giving it :p

QUICK UPDATE!

2GIVE is now listed on YOBit.net - https://yobit.net/en/trade/2GIVE/BTC

We didn't even have to ask them, they just fired it up!

I've submitted a request to Poloniex as well...

-dvd