[ANN] [PMP] PreminePlus Launch ~ New Features! ~ Oct Signup Free Distribution!

[bluedude]

Hello Bluedude,
those funds went to pay loljosh for the initial coin generation.
You can verify that with him quite easily.
I haven't kept a red cent, in fact I've invested more into this coin, for Domain names/VPS.

So please don't infer that I've somehow stolen anyone's BTC.

Afterwards he was unable to perform any wallet modifications or give us a DNS node at the time. He gave us a blank coin and from day one I have been developing this coin on my own.

I'm sorry you weren't included. The reason is because you hid your name on the excel swap list.

The newsletter list was compiled from the list on the public excel document.
As well I see you swapped on July 14th, 6 days after I sent the announcement.

If you would like to speak with me on IRC or via PM I can explain to you exactly why we needed to enact these measures. If you are a fan of reason I believe you might even agree with me 

If there is a good reason for change of terms, you should do the voting by inviting all the community, not just a handful.
We haven't even swapped half the PMC in circulation yet.
There may be people waiting to swap in the last minute, exactly because of the reasons we are having now.
If there is a voting, we need to include the whole community and listen.

To me the decision looks hasty and didnt give the whole community any part in the decision making.

[TheMightyX]

If there is a good reason for change of terms, you should do the voting by inviting all the community, not just a handful.
We haven't even swapped half the PMC in circulation yet.
There may be people waiting to swap in the last minute, exactly because of the reasons we are having now.
If there is a voting, we need to include the whole community and listen.

To me the decision looks hasty and didnt give the whole community any part in the decision making.

Are you kidding me? A "handful"?
I took all the names that were on the PMC swap excel sheet at the time (july 8th) (that I just linked to you) and messaged ALL of them.
Was it my fault kbroadfoot entered some incorrectly? ecuamobi instead of EcuaMobi and iGoodwin instead of iGoodw1n?

Or are you referring to the entire new community? because I believe we would have got 600 votes for a 10:1 swap ratio and 20 for a 1:1 ratio. I don't think you would have liked that more, would you?

What other method did you have in mind for having a roundtable discussion?
Were we supposed to try to get everyone on IRC at the same time?
I did my god damned best. I took the names we had, I asked them to vote, they voted and we followed their vote.

I see a lot of irrational arguments here but none of you have any idea how much work is involved in this. Does this look like your average copy/paste clonecoin?
Does my launch thread only have info about the coins specs and a list of pools you can mine the coin on?
Does all the wallet development I've done over the past 3 weeks seem easy?

If its not apparent that I'm working my ass off then I'm not sure what else I can do to show you. I wish certain people would take that into account before they start blaming me for all the great injustices I've caused them. Yes, what a jerk I am for trying to save their PMC in one form or another. What a fucking loser I am for realizing a design flaw and trying to fix it.

Frankly if you voted 1:1 you either didn't have all the facts or you were a selfish asshole. We are only reducing our swap amount because we reduced their giveaway amount!
You are still getting the same amount of PMP relative to what they are getting. You guys act like I should just continue on if I notice a design flaw that will literally destroy the coin. If by giving you all 1:1 I create an unfair currency and people see it for what it is, an unfair currency, it doesn't matter if you get 1:1 or 3:1, your coins will be worthless! No one will want to invest in a coin with an unfair distribution. And if no ones investing, you have no liquidity and your coins might as well be made of thin air. We've already talked about destroying those left over coins.

I am literally spending hours each day composing large letters, trying to argue and reason with the same 3-4 irrational people, to get them to understand and appreciate that this is something we need to do or we risk everything. Forgive me if I can't run almost every aspect of this massive fucking project, spend hours presenting facts and arguments and still keep on top of communications with every single member from the PMC community. Do you think you could cut me a bit of slack?

You are right though, it could be seen as hasty, but we needed a decision before the giveaway on Aug 1st. I sent the newsletter to 24 PMC members, which there was a total of 29 at the time. I wanted to give at least 10 days for everyone to vote and then give myself time to implement the changes we all decided upon.

Sorry Benezivas I will respond to you in a moment.

[TheMightyX]

...

You are basically stating that everyone that has a lot of PMC right now got it for free in the beginning. This may be true for about 10 or 20 people, but the rest bought the coins with their BTC. You are basically laughing in the faces of people going all "woops, sorry bro, they got them for free so I have to take them from everyone, lol". Also, as a swapper of over 5k PMC, why did I never get a PM to participate in the voting? It seems that you only invited about half of the people on the list to your voting and closed it withing 2 days again.

Hi Benezivas,
I don't believe that is what I was stating exactly.

Regardless of whether they paid for it or got it for free. There was no liquidity, there was no coming back from the edge.
You and I both know PMC was worthless. It was a direct copy of bitcoin, a Sha256 coin. It had never been updated, the developer abandoned it shortly after launching. Did you somehow think that if you held the coins long enough they would somehow magically regain value? Like people would suddenly realize all the wonders of PMC and come flooding back?
The coins were worthless. Please understand this. From what you are saying, the BTC that people spent on PMC in the past wasn't already lost. It was.

I'm not sure if anyone forwarded you the first newsletter (I think they did) but here:

Thats the poloniex order book from July 8th.
If you tried to sell any amount of PMC you would reduce the coin to worthless 0.00000002 BTC
Do you think it would come back from that?

Also,

"woops, sorry bro, they got them for free so I have to take them from everyone, lol"

is that supposed to be a joke or is that really how you see this situation? honestly?

I'm working my ass off so you can reclaim something from your worthless coins. You don't even know what that something is worth yet, but you do know that its just not enough. Wish I could see the future like that.

Instead of joining in quasimodo's immature FUD shower did you think of first contacting me? Instead of harming everyones PMC/PMP by helping spread FUD?
Is that really the best course of action? I've been on IRC every day, 24/7 leaving it open for weeks.
People can always PM me as well, god knows many do.
I'm almost always around, and If I'm not I get back to people as soon as I can.

[bluedude]

The only thing which separated PMC from other coins was its strong community support.
Whether its Sean's outpost charity donation or setting up a new multipool, there were always someone willing to donate and help.
I havent seen the same level of enthusiasm in any other threads, in my short stint with the crypto community.

There were loads of coins with similar free distribution in the recent past and do your research to find out where they are now.
PMC had been though several dumps and its the rich holders who had hold it together until now.
If I were you, I would think twice before slandering their support.

Most of the people in your 800 are looking for a quick pump and dump, I believe,
and within no time the above list will get updated with a new one.

I appreciate the hardwork you had put in for reviving PMC what whats lacking here is the open communication with the community.
You could have posted your reasons for change of terms in the PMC thread and discussed the pros and cons with the community rather than going the PM way.

[quasimodo]

Frankly if you voted 1:1 you either didn't have all the facts or you were a selfish asshole.

Do you think it is helpful of forming a community, if you are insulting all who do not share your opinion?
Is this the style how you want to lead the community?

[TheMightyX]

The only thing which separated PMC from other coins was its strong community support.
Whether its Sean's outpost charity donation or setting up a new multipool, there were always someone willing to donate and help.
I havent seen the same level of enthusiasm in any other threads, in my short stint with the crypto community.

There were loads of coins with similar free distribution in the recent past and do your research to find out where they are now.
PMC had been though several dumps and its the rich holders who had hold it together until now.
If I were you, I would think twice before slandering their support.

Most of the people in your 800 are looking for a quick pump and dump, I believe,
and within no time the above list will get updated with a new one.

I appreciate the hardwork you had put in for reviving PMC what whats lacking here is the open communication with the community.
You could have posted your reasons for change of terms in the PMC thread and discussed the pros and cons with the community rather than going the PM way.

The PMC "community" was reduced to less than 20 people. Many of whom were only brought back after receiving word of the PMC revival.
So I'm not sure what you are getting at.
Yes many freely distributed coins have failed, that is partly because they weren't freely distributed in a fair manner (faircoin, PMC), and also partly because the creator had no long-term vision for sustaining the coin. I do have a vision for the coin and I AM trying to distribute coins in a fair manner. But a certain few vocal members seem intent on preventing that.

As I mentioned in the newsletter, I didn't want to create FUD with the new community, (what you are doing right now), by posting it out in the open.
The reason is, if I posted it out in the open and said "hey I've noticed a glaring problem in our planning. We need to fix it", then presented the voting options: 1:1, 3:1, 5:1 and 10:1. How do you think that would go over? instead of confining that problem to only the people that were affected at the time (22 or 24 people), it then becomes widespread that there is a huge unintended distribution issue unfairly rewarding the PMC community.
I asked kbroadfoot to HALT all swap operations until we had a chance to clear this up. Now it's my fault he decided to do his own thing and kept the Swap going? I presented the problem, his response was "we all deserve those coins".   oh yes, we all deserve 100-200x what the newcomers get.

I appreciate you appreciating my hard work, but I'm still getting a lot of blame even though I've apologized for my lack of communication many times in many different threads. Please understand that all though I may not have been communicating with you directly, I have been communicating with many different BTCtalk members daily. BTCtalk is just not the most efficient means of keeping steady communications, and if you would like to present a better method I'm all ears.

[TheMightyX]

Frankly if you voted 1:1 you either didn't have all the facts or you were a selfish asshole.

Do you think it is helpful of forming a community, if you are insulting all who do not share your opinion?
Is this the style how you want to lead the community?

Anyone that takes the time to listen and understand the facts can see that it was the right thing to do.
If someone hears the facts but chooses to ignore them they are an irrational asshole. That is not a comment I'm pretty sure that's a definition somewhere. If they hear the facts but do not understand them... I want to say they are an idiot because this is not rocket science we are talking about, but some members english is not their main language.

I still stand by what I said.
From your comments its obvious you were the latter.

[TheMightyX]

I was looking for something to show you guys and came across this, thought you all might like to read this. Remember getmining,info one of our older more respected members? When I was throwing around ideas before I started he chimed in:
(underlined important points)

There are a few things that I think should be considered.

Activity in and around PMC stopped. This is why it was delisted. No-one posted in the thread, no-one was trading it, the community fizzled away. This is an important and irrefutable fact.

Any 'revival' of PMC should be 'as new' - What I mean by this is that it should stay true to the original intentions of the coin. Those original intentions were an experiment to try to expose what would happen to BTC once it had all been mined.

It is important to note now that PMC was traded, people did make profit and people did make a lose. It can be strongly suggested that people who currently hold PMC either did not actively encourage it's use or take part in the community or bought it very cheap over the past several months (since the crash) in the hopes that they would make a profit at some point, a gamble.

Therefor, I very strongly suggest that very careful consideration should be given to any PMC revival that is slanted to the benefit of existing holders. There is no good reason to reward current holders of PMC in any greater way than new investors which may enter into the revival.

It is very easy to see and the suggest that a revival is to benefit existing holders that invested and/or are hurt that their PMC is worthless.

I believe the best way to proceed is to attempt a revival of the 'experiment'.

This could either be done with a hardfork of the current chain or, my preference, a new experiment should be started but with absolutely no exchange of existing PMC to the revival. It should be a completely new and fresh, clean experiment.

Absolutely no IPO, ever.

All that being said, I do have PMC - But that is my fault and I understand that.

Please PM me a date/time if there is to be an IRC meetup (as I will receive an email alert and will then know to jump in)

It's unfortunate we don't hear reasonable words like this more often.
But I have something better to post now. One moment.

[quasimodo]

In your words, TMX: If someone hears the facts but chooses to ignore them they are irrational.


I am presenting: the facts


The deal was:

1. I swaped nearly 7K PMC to the same amount PMP

2. I got the PMP.

3. 3 weeks later, you roll back all transactions and i have nothing (No PMC, no PMP)

4. Then you said. You get new ~ 2300 PMP

This is called scam. Neither more nor less.

If you are not familiar with this simple social and legal rules, I can´t help you.

[TheMightyX]

I'll try to clear up the FUD in one post

The situation was my fault, yes. It was a lack of oversight which I am trying to correct. This lack of oversight caused all PMC holders to get 3x their initial agreed upon amount.
Heres what happened and heres why your 3:1 swap is actually the same amount as the 1:1 we initially agreed upon.

From the original plan that was presented, may 26.
Bolded/red relevant part.

The idea was not to grant any existing PMC holders any NEW PMC, just exchanging their current PMC1 for PMC2 so they could continue on. This was to make it fair for new members joining the community. Most people here have less than 500 PMC. As well, we can also see that the value of PMC will be diluted initially. The max coins of PMC1 is 500,000. Where as PMC2's max coins will have to be as high as 1.5 to 2 million.

That was part of the original plan I presented to the community and we agreed upon.
When I said 1:1 it came with the original understanding that they (new community) would get 1 or 1.5 million.
If we reduce their share we have to reduce our share to keep the ratio intact, or else we are just fucking stealing.

We would set aside 500k for us, and 1 or 1.5 million for them.
We've now cut down the max coins, effectively reducing their share from 1 or 1.5 million to 500,000 (but not reducing our own at all!) oops!
This is a 50% or 66.66% reduction (a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio).


500k of 1.5 or 2 million is 33.33% or 25%, this was our Premine for swapping.
That was the deal I presented, that's where your 1:1 comes from.
You get 1:1 if they get 1.5 or 2 million. Rather than inconvenience them with upping the max coins and causing panic for 800 people. I thought I could rely on the PMC community to be mature, understand the facts and reduce their coins to fix the issue.

Heres the key, I need you to follow this very closely:
Whether you get 7000 PMP (1:1) of 2 million max coins (500k swap/1.5m giveaway) or 2300 PMP (3:1) of 666.66k (166.6k swap/ 500k giveaway)
You are getting the EXACT SAME AMOUNT OF COINS PROPORTIONAL TO THE MAX COINS!
If you have 12,000 PMP of 2 million or 4,000 PMP of 666.66k you still have 0.006% of all coins!!!
Your number of coins doesn't matter! Your stake is exactly the same!

What you don't seem to understand is if we keep the 1:1 swap and reduce the max coins for them but not for us, then that 1:1 is actually not 100% of your coins, because we reduced the max coins not-proportionally, 1:1 is actually 300% stake.

Heres the basic math for you again:
500k swap / 1.5m giveaway = .33
166.66 swap / 500k giveaway = .33
500k swap / 500k giveaway = 1 (three times the original agreed upon amount)



Yes I should have noticed the error sooner, should that have changed your mind? No, because you are getting the same amount of coins you are supposed to get, regardless of the max coins.
So thats the deal, theres your proof.

Why did I make this ridiculously easy mistake?
see:

Could everyone stop with all the "we need to ... " and instead start doing that?

I agree. I think TheMightyX should just start the development of a new POS coin with 1.000.000 premined coins. I would also suggest having a mandatory transaction fee of at least 0.0001PMC+.

We can discuss how the premined coins will be distributed during development.

This is where the 1,000,000 million number came from, it was meant to be changed later and I got busy with so many other things I forgot all about it.
The only number that was really important to my designs was the ratio of swap to giveaway coins. and because I forgot all about changing the 1,000,000 to 2,000,000 the natural solution was not to panic the 800 new people and change it on the PMC side.

Thanks for everyone freaking the fuck out though, thats doing wonders for the coin.  
You are getting the same damn amount of stake, because we've reduced the max coins by the same amount we've reduced your stupid coins.
If anyone even thinks of uttering the words "we deserve 1:1" after all of this, I will go batshit insane.

I'm just going to assume FUD cleared, because I'm tired as hell from staying up all god damned night explaining this to people.

[TheMightyX]

In your words, TMX: If someone hears the facts but chooses to ignore them they are irrational.


I am presenting: the facts


The deal was:

1. I swaped nearly 7K PMC to the same amount PMP

2. I got the PMP.

3. 3 weeks later, you roll back all transactions and i have nothing (No PMC, no PMP)

4. Then you said. You get new ~ 2300 PMP

This is called scam. Neither more nor less.

If you are not familiar with this simple social and legal rules, I can´t help you.

The deal was 1:1 with the new community getting 1.5 million.
As you can see from the previous thread 
We reduced their amount to 500k (3:1), so we reduce our amount by 3:1 to compensate and you get EXACTLY THE SAME % OF STAKE. You and these few others are so set on this arbitrary 1:1 number. I just don't get it.

They're amount was reduced but ours was accidentally not reduced on the encouragement of another member to just get the coin compiled and change the specs later. I forget all about changing it back and when I realized we had neglected to change the spec in question back to the agreed amount I presented it to the community.
Hopefully by now you've had a chance to read my last post and stop looking like a arrogant asshole. 7k THEN is the same as 2.3k NOW
You've lost 0% of your stake.
Also, learn some fucking manners. I'm doing you a huge favor and you are just biting the hand that feeds you.

[quasimodo]

Dear TMX,

i´m not interested in your new offer.
Please send me back my worthless 6949.25 old PMC.
I post my PMC adress tomorrow.
Thanks

[TheMightyX]

Dear TMX,

i´m not interested in your new offer.
Please send me back my worthless 6949.25 old PMC.
I post my PMC adress tomorrow.
Thanks

"new offer" this is the original offer, and it is the only correct one.
We originally said 2 or 3 times swap coins for the giveaway. I then reiterated that it would have to three or four a couple posts later. This is what I originally planned for.
hahaha, you are not interested in 2300 PMP (which is 0.3% of all PMP with our current reduced max coins) because it is not the same as 7000 PMP (which was 0.3% of all PMP before the reduction)?.

You want us to reduce everyones max coins EXCEPT for yours?

Theres no winning with you is there?
They are the same amounts, if you think I'm going to compensate you for losing nothing then you can go suck eggs.
Everyone's coins have been reduced, not just yours, so... you can have 0.3% of all PMP before or 0.3% of all PMP after, take it or leave it I guess?

I'm done trying to reason with you.
I've been up all night, dealing with the FUD you created with your idiocy.
Let me know if you want me to destroy your PMP or maybe donate it to the PMC swap community who has less than you.
I sure there are some lesser fortunate PMC members who would appreciate a fraction of your coins  

[quasimodo]

Dear TMX,

i´m not interested in your new offer.
Please send me back my worthless 6949.25 old PMC.
I post my PMC adress tomorrow.
Thanks

Refund me or scam me, it's your choice. Your insults bounce off me, but do not contribute to your better image. 

[TheMightyX]

Dear TMX,

i´m not interested in your new offer.
Please send me back my worthless 6949.25 old PMC.
I post my PMC adress tomorrow.
Thanks

Refund me or scam me, it's your choice. Your insults bounce off me, but do not contribute to your better image. 

How would I refund you? your coins were burned. I just presented you with your options. You can take your coins and accept the fact that you are getting exactly the same % of stake as before, only the entire coin has reduced its max coins, or you can donate them.

Scammed, what a tool XD
I told you 2 months ago what the plan was, may 26th. But yes, I've retroactively scammed you! I used my time machine to orchestrate this whole evil plan.
Call the mods, I'm sure they would love to hear how i've scammed you by telling you the plan two months ago. Whether you get 1 coin and there's 100 max coins or you get 10 coins and theres 1000 max coins... your stake is the same, is there something you don't understand about this?

maybe Quasimodo isnt human at all?
maybe...

[MadGhost]

Dear TMX,

i´m not interested in your new offer.
Please send me back my worthless 6949.25 old PMC.
I post my PMC adress tomorrow.
Thanks

Refund me or scam me, it's your choice. Your insults bounce off me, but do not contribute to your better image. 

How would I refund you? your coins were burned. I just presented you with your options. You can take your coins and accept the fact that you are getting exactly the same % of stake as before, only the entire coin has reduced its max coins, or you can donate them.

Scammed, what a tool XD
I told you 2 months ago what the plan was, may 26th. But yes, I've retroactively scammed you! I used my time machine to orchestrate this whole evil plan.
Call the mods, I'm sure they would love to hear how i've scammed you by telling you the plan two months ago. Whether you get 1 coin and there's 100 max coins or you get 10 coins and theres 1000 max coins... your stake is the same, is there something you don't understand about this?

maybe Quasimodo isnt human at all?
maybe...

that is something new i have seen.

[quasimodo]

I swapped my pmc for PMP and i got 6949.25 PMP.
I had 6949.25 PMP in my wallet for 2 Weeks. Then you have roll back transactions and have stolen my coins.
So i want 6949.25 PMPs (the stolen Coins) or you refund my old 6949.25 PMC.
Is it so difficult to understand?
No more nor less.
All other options i call a scam.
Do the right thing or scam me. The community is watching your choice.
Good night.

[MoneroMooo]

I may or may not have got everything right, so apologies if I didn't, but I understand the issue is one scaling. Is it not possible to just have three times as many coins and scale accordingly ? You said it might scare 800 people, but if their coins get multiplied by 3 to keep the same percentage, it should not really cause alarm, should it ? Then the people from the PMC exchange get both the agreed number of coins, and the expected percentage. Is there another reason for not having three times as many coins (besides a possible psychological reason of price per coin) ?

[vlight]

Damn, it is very unfortunate that there was such an oversight 

But if it was the original plan, you have to stick with it. I think TheMightyX did the right thing.

[JulioCesar]

Interesting project, PM sent... I wish you the best! thx