Very severe blow to bitcoin

[RawDog]

Andreas Antonop's tweet is the worst news yet that I've heard for bitcoin. 

Looks like Andreas is done with the Bitcoin Foundation. Good. Screw the Bitcoin Foundation.

"I can no longer have even the smallest association with the Bitcoin Foundation, because of the complete lack of transparency" https://twitter.com/aantonop/status/486926129409052672

The Bitcoin foundation has gained Pierce and lost Antonopolos.  This isn't going in the right direction at all.

[Lethn]

All the core developers who were with Bitcoin at the beginning are starting to leave, this could actually affect the price, especially if the Bitcoin foundation still has the ability to fuck with the network unless the community can create their own fork we all agree on.

[beatljuice]

Andreas Antonop's tweet is the worst news yet that I've heard for bitcoin. 

Looks like Andreas is done with the Bitcoin Foundation. Good. Screw the Bitcoin Foundation.

"I can no longer have even the smallest association with the Bitcoin Foundation, because of the complete lack of transparency" https://twitter.com/aantonop/status/486926129409052672

The Bitcoin foundation has gained Pierce and lost Antonopolos.  This isn't going in the right direction at all.

Title is wrong it should be "Very severe blow to the bitcoin foundation, Bitcoin unaffected"

Yeah, headline way off.

People who don't know of Andreas (most of them) won't care and the foundation will go on and hopefully do some good despite their "issues."

And the people who do know of Andreas mostly dislike how the foundation is being run already. Plus he's said he didn't want anything to do with them in the past.

[allthingsluxury]

Very unfortunate, but Bitcoin will continue on.

[Mitchell]

Andreas leaving them is good news, not bad news, lol. Your title is waaaay off.

[AmDD]

Name one thing the foundation has done to benefit Bitcoin. Seriously, maybe I missed something but I dont know what good the foundation has ever brought...

[BitCoinDream]

Andreas Antonop's tweet is the worst news yet that I've heard for bitcoin. 

Looks like Andreas is done with the Bitcoin Foundation. Good. Screw the Bitcoin Foundation.

"I can no longer have even the smallest association with the Bitcoin Foundation, because of the complete lack of transparency" https://twitter.com/aantonop/status/486926129409052672

The Bitcoin foundation has gained Pierce and lost Antonopolos.  This isn't going in the right direction at all.

Title is wrong it should be "Very severe blow to the bitcoin foundation, Bitcoin unaffected"

I second. Please change the title. And yes... it is a good news. Especially when the frontmen of the foundation are planning to roll out their own coin.

[Mitchell]

tweet:

Karp Markeles ‏@_Magicaltux 5h

@aantonop snitches get stitches..

Karp Markeles ‏@_Magicaltux 5h

@aantonop & grasses slapped asses

Just to be clear for people that don't know this Twitter account:

Karp Markeles
@_Magicaltux
I AM NOT MARK KARPELES (Parody Account) #Mtgox
sorry for any inconvenience

These tweets aren't "real" and shouldn't be taken seriously.

[PolarPoint]

That is a actually good news. Andrea is obviously not going to leave bitcoin. There might be a chance for him to gather support to form a real "foundation" for the benefit of bitcoin. The current Bitcoin Foundation has done nothing for bitcoin.

[justusranvier]

All the core developers who were with Bitcoin at the beginning are starting to leave, this could actually affect the price, especially if the Bitcoin foundation still has the ability to fuck with the network unless the community can create their own fork we all agree on.

We don't need to fork Bitcoin Core.

We have btcd.

We also have Obelisk.

Bitcoin doesn't need satoshi's client any more than the web needed Mosaic.

[beetcoin]

this isn't really a big surprise though.. andrea is popular among bitcoinres. it would benefit himself to detach himself from any affiliation with the bitcoin foundation's bad rep.

[haploid23]

I hope this isn't the real RawDog from youtube, because he is nothing but a troll. The title clearly says so.

How did you connect the Bitcoin Foundation to be the lifeline of bitcoin?

[bitcoin_bagholder]

Andreas Antonop's tweet is the worst news yet that I've heard for bitcoin. 

Looks like Andreas is done with the Bitcoin Foundation. Good. Screw the Bitcoin Foundation.

"I can no longer have even the smallest association with the Bitcoin Foundation, because of the complete lack of transparency" https://twitter.com/aantonop/status/486926129409052672

The Bitcoin foundation has gained Pierce and lost Antonopolos.  This isn't going in the right direction at all.

Title is wrong it should be "Very severe blow to the bitcoin foundation, Bitcoin unaffected"

I second. Please change the title. And yes... it is a good news. Especially when the frontmen of the foundation are planning to roll out their own coin.

Seriously?

That would be a glaring conflict of interest.

[TheButterZone]

Didn't AA just join the board?

[micaman]

aantonop IS bitcoin!
He should start his own foundation...

[RawDog]

aantonop IS bitcoin!

And Pierce is PedoCoin

[franky1]

I second. Please change the title. And yes... it is a good news. Especially when the frontmen of the foundation are planning to roll out their own coin.

Seriously?
That would be a glaring conflict of interest.

there is no conflict of interest. those in the foundation only have one interest.. greed. pre-mining their own new coin and selling bags of crap to naive noobs is all about the greed, fully inline with their interests..

[leanne]

well, is it really important what the foundation does? we've seen incompetent people there before and scandals over scandals. it does somewhat hurt bitcoin but what do you guys and gals expect from a lobbyist organisation that tries to push their interests?

[justusranvier]

Not only is it an alt coin it is a really stupid alt coin - one of the worst ideas ever.

It's just a Mastercoin pump.

Too many investors are unhappy about getting stuck with a useless and illiquid failure.

[medicine]

I hope this isn't the real RawDog from youtube, because he is nothing but a troll. The title clearly says so.

How did you connect the Bitcoin Foundation to be the lifeline of bitcoin?

This is true, Rawdog from youtube has always had it out for bitcoin.  Looks like the OP, whoever he is, is using that name to carry on the Rawdog tradition of narrow sighted, believe everything you see and hear on the news, instigation tactic BS.  I really can't stand that youtube channel.  And I tried to watch one of his videos more than once.  Can't do it.

[theblacksquid]

I suggest they change the name of the current Bitcoin Foundation to the Realcoin Foundation and then we can, if needed(?), form a new Bitcoin Foundation for the benefit of Bitcoin.

How are we sure that the "Bitcoin Foundation 2.0" wont turn out the same in the end?

"Either You die a hero, or live long enough to become the villain."

[BTCat]

Change the title pls. Blessing for Bitcoin. BF becomes less important.

[dwdoc]

No impact on Bitcoin whatsoever.
Bitcoin Foundation will do its thing.
Andreas will continue his awesome efforts.
Anyone know, is he on this forum?

[theymos]

All the core developers who were with Bitcoin at the beginning are starting to leave, this could actually affect the price, especially if the Bitcoin foundation still has the ability to fuck with the network unless the community can create their own fork we all agree on.

What are you talking about? The Foundation is entirely separate from the Bitcoin Core development group. They don't have any power over the network.

[Swordsoffreedom]

Andreas Antonop's tweet is the worst news yet that I've heard for bitcoin.  

Looks like Andreas is done with the Bitcoin Foundation. Good. Screw the Bitcoin Foundation.

"I can no longer have even the smallest association with the Bitcoin Foundation, because of the complete lack of transparency" https://twitter.com/aantonop/status/486926129409052672

The Bitcoin foundation has gained Pierce and lost Antonopolos.  This isn't going in the right direction at all.

This is good news, the foundation is a questionable organization for Bitcoin and we need alternatives.
It would be better to start fresh while Bitcoin is still relatively young and get this shuffling done when its not as painful to do.

[ronskii]

BF has been completely irrelevant to me, hopefully to a lot of others as well.

[leanne]

All the core developers who were with Bitcoin at the beginning are starting to leave, this could actually affect the price, especially if the Bitcoin foundation still has the ability to fuck with the network unless the community can create their own fork we all agree on.

What are you talking about? The Foundation is entirely separate from the Bitcoin Core development group. They don't have any power over the network.

the boss himself is entering the discussion, good to see you! yeah well, this is an excellent example of how people may mix up the different groups around bitcoin. doesn't blockchain.info manage the blockchain? wasn't karpeles the CEO of bitcoin? or was it satoshi?

[theblacksquid]

All the core developers who were with Bitcoin at the beginning are starting to leave, this could actually affect the price, especially if the Bitcoin foundation still has the ability to fuck with the network unless the community can create their own fork we all agree on.

What are you talking about? The Foundation is entirely separate from the Bitcoin Core development group. They don't have any power over the network.

the boss himself is entering the discussion, good to see you! yeah well, this is an excellent example of how people may mix up the different groups around bitcoin. doesn't blockchain.info manage the blockchain? wasn't karpeles the CEO of bitcoin? or was it satoshi?

It's all an education game.

[justusranvier]

It's just a Mastercoin pump.

I heard Brock's new coins was called Realcoin.

It is, but it's based on Mastercoin.

It's another P&D like the Maidsafe IPO.

[JorgeStolfi]

In case people did not see it, here is the announcement of Pierce's  new RealCoin on the Wall Street Journal, 2014-07-08 (yesterday):

Dollar-Backed Digital Currency Aims to Fix Bitcoin’s Volatility Dilemma
http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/07/08/dollar-backed-digital-currency-aims-to-fix-bitcoins-volatility-dilemma/

I read that there was already an altcoin with that name, which is already defunct.  This apparently is not it.

[jonald_fyookball]

I hope this isn't the real RawDog from youtube, because he is nothing but a troll. 
 

You said it.

What an annoying clown.  He even LOOKS like a troll.

[Justin00]

Agree with BurtW
Only twitter people or his / stupid people give a crap about the opinion of 1 or a few.

boo hoo BTC foundation is shit. we knew that from day 1.

Isn't It more that the BTC foundation has had leaders who have scammed for 10's of millions ?
and they don't seem to really mind... 

[Wary]

I suggest they change the name of the current Bitcoin Foundation to the Realcoin Foundation and then we can, if needed(?), form a new Bitcoin Foundation for the benefit of Bitcoin.

How are we sure that the "Bitcoin Foundation 2.0" wont turn out the same in the end?

"Either You die a hero, or live long enough to become the villain."

That's why we don't need a foundation. What we need is a set of independent crowdfunded projects.

[justusranvier]

That's why we don't need a foundation. What we need is a set of independent crowdfunded projects.

But, but, how will independent crowdfunded projects feather their nests by building a new revolving door regulatory agency they can milk for a pension?

[seriouscoin]

Welcome to my ignore, OP. What a loser.

[sickpig]

No impact on Bitcoin whatsoever.
Bitcoin Foundation will do its thing.
Andreas will continue his awesome efforts.
Anyone know, is he on this forum?

He has an account, he's not vey active though. I don't rember his handle but it should be something very similar to his twitter one.

Edit: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=79085

[keithers]

Bitcoin is going the right way. Its the foundation that has made a uturn and is driving on the wrong side of the road

[norgan]

the sky is falling!

[tvbcof]

Agree with BurtW
Only twitter people or his / stupid people give a crap about the opinion of 1 or a few.

boo hoo BTC foundation is shit. we knew that from day 1.

Isn't It more that the BTC foundation has had leaders who have scammed for 10's of millions ?
and they don't seem to really mind... 

Or day T-minus something.  When Gavin proposed the foundation a year or so before it was created the response here on this forum was overwhelmingly positive.  Only Theymos and a few others (myself included) voiced some concerns strongly enough to give the idea the thumbs down.  As it turned out the results of forming the foundation were worse then I envisioned they might be.  Much worse in fact.

It is actually not possible to know exactly what the impact of TBF has been.  The response from the U.S. govt apparatus has been much more favorable than I expected.  Ditto adoption by mainstream entities.  It is very possible that the actions of the foundation had a lot to do with this, and it is also the case that a vast majority of folks here think that these two things are fantastic.  I don't, so even if TBF is responsible it's not something which would change my mind about their being worthwhile.

The only positive thing I can say about The Bitcoin Foundation is that they have played a major part in destroying most of the philosophical hopes I had for the solution and thereby paved the way for me to feel OK about milking the shit out of it's success irrespective of the impact my actions may have.  At this point my actions are minimal anyway.  About the only real support I've ever lent to Bitcoin was to try to mop up some liquidity in the late 2011 timeframe when that action was sorely needed, and that proved fortuitous.

[justusranvier]

The only positive thing I can say about The Bitcoin Foundation is that they have played a major part in destroying most of the philosophical hopes I had for the solution and thereby paved the way for me to feel OK about milking the shit out of it's success irrespective of the impact my actions may have.

Would you really have acted differently had BF not shown up?

[Lauda]

Who cares about the Bitcoin Foundation these days?

[vintagetrex]

I second. Please change the title. And yes... it is a good news. Especially when the frontmen of the foundation are planning to roll out their own coin.

Seriously?
That would be a glaring conflict of interest.

there is no conflict of interest. those in the foundation only have one interest.. greed. pre-mining their own new coin and selling bags of crap to naive noobs is all about the greed, fully inline with their interests..

this is too true. the corruption and greed in crypto currency has reached a tipping point

[Lauda]

oh dammit NO! after the buybitcoins hack and leak http://pastebin.com/NPUxhSWc
by the PirateBayKrew
this is another severe blow, I'm starting to lose faith 
please someone give me some good news
 

How is this a severe blow to Bitcoin? It's the fault of the company.
Stop spreading FUD newbie.

[Swordsoffreedom]

Who cares about the Bitcoin Foundation these days?

No one really, besides the regulators now and then
News of the day and the Lobbying Firm they hired
http://online.wsj.com/articles/bitcoin-foundation-hires-lobbying-firm-1404918261

Backers of the virtual currency bitcoin are beefing up their Washington presence as they seek to shape government oversight of the fledgling payment system.

The effort has been building since a number of federal agencies began examining bitcoin last year, but reached a milestone on Wednesday when the Bitcoin Foundation, the top trade organization for the new technology, said it had retained a lobbying firm for the first time.

The foundation hired Thorsen French Advocacy, a firm led by two former bipartisan congressional staffers, reflecting the group's desire to win support on Capitol Hill at a time when it's trying to influence an array of policy decisions. At least 13 U.S. government agencies have examined bitcoin, the Government Accountability Office said in a report last month.

The lobbyists' role will be to build "a reservoir of goodwill that we can deploy when we need to avert a crisis," said Jim Harper, global policy counsel for the foundation, on a call with reporters Wednesday. "The best work will head off problems before they become interesting to all of you."

[tvbcof]

The only positive thing I can say about The Bitcoin Foundation is that they have played a major part in destroying most of the philosophical hopes I had for the solution and thereby paved the way for me to feel OK about milking the shit out of it's success irrespective of the impact my actions may have.

Would you really have acted differently had BF not shown up?

I honestly don't know.  I'd most likely have tried to capitalize to some extent, but it probably would have been much more difficult.  I may have tried to make some meaningful contributions, but it may have been driven by necessity as much as by socio-political aspirations.  Anyway, as I said, I actually owe a dept of gratitude to TBF for helping me feel no special attachment to Bitcoin as a system and not care to much about it's trajectory other than what it means to my pocketbook.  I'll always feel it to have been an extremely important innovation even if history proves it to be more a proof-of-concept more than anything.

[kashish948]

BF or no BF, nothing is going to stop bitcoin!

[xDan]

Why do these people always have to cause a scene? He could have said: "I'd like the foundation to become more transparent. I'd like X to happen."

Name one thing the foundation has done to benefit Bitcoin. Seriously, maybe I missed something but I dont know what good the foundation has ever brought...

- Funding Gavin. And that other guy.
- Liaising with gubment, that a lot of you guys all hate. Like the recently hired lobbying firm.

But why aren't we funding a full time core dev in a decentralised fashion, with voting etc, yet? Is it because really, we are all just whiners who won't actually put in the effort/resources to solve the problem?

It's easier to hate the authority than to actually make the authority unnecessary.

[Guido]

Andreas Antonop's tweet is the worst news yet that I've heard for bitcoin. 

Looks like Andreas is done with the Bitcoin Foundation. Good. Screw the Bitcoin Foundation.

"I can no longer have even the smallest association with the Bitcoin Foundation, because of the complete lack of transparency" https://twitter.com/aantonop/status/486926129409052672

The Bitcoin foundation has gained Pierce and lost Antonopolos.  This isn't going in the right direction at all.

Title is wrong it should be "Very severe blow to the bitcoin foundation, Bitcoin unaffected"

yes

[davidgdg]

Imagine the panic if Satoshi's announcement that he is moving on to other things had been made this week rather than three years ago. 

[The Bitcoin Co-op]

He's not going to quit Bitcoin, just the Foundation. They disagreed with the things he wanted to do, it seems, so it's not like we lose any of Andreas' contributions via his departure.

[Ron~Popeil]

Please use some sense when you create your thread titles. New people visiting this forum seeing titles like this one or one of the many 51% fud threads get the wrong impression immediately. At worst this is a non issue for bit coin.     

[gondel]

So what?
Ho is that going to affect the BTC price in negative way?! I dont get it, please someone explain!
BR

[fryarminer]

What's the Bitcoin Foundation? 

[Erdogan]

Bitcoin regulator submission and tool provider investor assosiation.

[Erdogan]

Bitcoin distractor and altcoin assosiation.

[JorgeStolfi]

So what?
How is that going to affect the BTC price in negative way?! I dont get it, please someone explain!

The President of The Bitcoin Foundation  (the "The" being part of its name), billionaire virtual currency entrepreneur Brock Pierce, tells the Wall Street Journal that people should use RealCoin, a second-generation cryptocurrency, for e-commerce, instead of Bitcoin; since the latter is incurably volatile while RealCoin is pegged to the dollar. (However he expects some fringe bitcoiners to be displeased for silly ideological reasons.) 

[IIOII]

It's not a severe blow for bitcoin, it's a severe blow for The Bitcoin Foundation.

Actually it is good for bitcoin, because TBF looses the last bit of credibility. It paves the way for its dissolution. Then more efficient, non-political, democratic, and decentralized development initiatives will thrive.

[hellscabane]

Of course, the OP would say it's a huge blow for bitcoin (even though it isn't). I mean, just look at his sig...

I don't see this as a huge issue for bitcoin, just for the foundation. But let's be honest, it's not like they have been doing anything particularly special in the recent months. So this might affect the lobbying effort, but nothing too much beyond that.

[theblacksquid]

...
But why aren't we funding a full time core dev in a decentralised fashion, with voting etc, yet? Is it because really, we are all just whiners who won't actually put in the effort/resources to solve the problem?
...

Mike Hearn's already got something hacked up just for that purpose, seeing as the TBF has become an impotent group of RealCoin P&D's

http://www.coindesk.com/mike-hearn-wins-40000-bounty-bitcoin-core-crowdfunding/

[leopard2]

All the core developers who were with Bitcoin at the beginning are starting to leave, this could actually affect the price, especially if the Bitcoin foundation still has the ability to fuck with the network unless the community can create their own fork we all agree on.

We don't need to fork Bitcoin Core.

We have btcd.

We also have Obelisk.

Bitcoin doesn't need satoshi's client any more than the web needed Mosaic.

Excellent post 

Protocol is not the same as Client (however Mosaic was read only .. whereas Bitcoin clients DO WRITE to the blockchain so it is not exactly the same)

[Skele]

Bitcoin is like the metal-concrete house of the three little pigs tale, no wolf can blow it up, except maybe the ones of Wall Street...

[jbreher]

When Gavin proposed the foundation a year or so before it was created the response here on this forum was overwhelmingly positive.  Only Theymos and a few others (myself included) voiced some concerns strongly enough to give the idea the thumbs down. 

Funny. I remember a spirited discussion with impassioned rhetoric both for and against...

[xDan]

...
But why aren't we funding a full time core dev in a decentralised fashion, with voting etc, yet? Is it because really, we are all just whiners who won't actually put in the effort/resources to solve the problem?
...

Mike Hearn's already got something hacked up just for that purpose, seeing as the TBF has become an impotent group of RealCoin P&D's

http://www.coindesk.com/mike-hearn-wins-40000-bounty-bitcoin-core-crowdfunding/

Yeah, I look forward to seeing what happens there!

If we could just have one full time dev hired purely by some kind of more decentralised voting/polling system... This would seriously help in taking some of the responsibility away from the foundation. They can continue existing, do wtf they want, as long as Bitcoin's future is not entirely dependent on them.

[tvbcof]

When Gavin proposed the foundation a year or so before it was created the response here on this forum was overwhelmingly positive.  Only Theymos and a few others (myself included) voiced some concerns strongly enough to give the idea the thumbs down. 

Funny. I remember a spirited discussion with impassioned rhetoric both for and against...

Anyone who cares to can read it and make up their own mind:

  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=49841.0

[Velkro]

Title is wrong it should be "Very severe blow to the bitcoin foundation, Bitcoin unaffected"

Agree, nothing to do with bitcoin, people problems only
bitcoin foundation is nothing, its dust

[Nathonas]

Are you bloody serious? The bitcoin foundation has almost jack all to do with bitcoin. I don't know how they started out, but for the last few years they've been nothing but a scam that took people's money to get rich. Andreas leaving them is a very, very good thing. The "Bitcoin" foundation stands for nothing but the enrichment of a few elite members.

[JorgeStolfi]

Bitcoin is like the metal-concrete house of the three little pigs tale, no wolf can blow it up, except maybe the ones of Wall Street...

You mean, someone like Brock Pierce? 

Wired Magazine,  2008-12-04
A Drive Through Laurel Canyon With Brock Pierce
http://archive.wired.com/gaming/virtualworlds/magazine/16-12/ff_ige_pierce

[cbeast]

Substitute 'damn' every time you're inclined to write 'very'; your editor will delete it and the writing will be just as it should be.

Mark Twain

[ShameOnYou]

Andreas Antonop's tweet is the worst news yet that I've heard for bitcoin. 

Looks like Andreas is done with the Bitcoin Foundation. Good. Screw the Bitcoin Foundation.

"I can no longer have even the smallest association with the Bitcoin Foundation, because of the complete lack of transparency" https://twitter.com/aantonop/status/486926129409052672

The Bitcoin foundation has gained Pierce and lost Antonopolos.  This isn't going in the right direction at all.

What's the big deal around the bitcoin foundation? It's irrelevant to me. It would probably be irrelevant to the rest of you if you'd just stop paying it any mind! Meanwhile, bitcoin keeps on keeping on....

[acs267]

How does The Bitcoin Foundation even affect Bitcoin? Answer: It doesn't. That's like saying a small retailer stops accepting Bitcoin. Big woop. Only TBF is going down. About time people realize that they own nothing. No power.

[JorgeStolfi]

How does The Bitcoin Foundation even affect Bitcoin? Answer: It doesn't. That's like saying a small retailer stops accepting Bitcoin. Big woop. Only TBF is going down. About time people realize that they own nothing. No power.

To people outside the bitcoin community, they are the identifiable "voice of bitcoin".  See that Wall Street Journal article.  Brock Pierce did not push his way into TBF and all the way to the top just for vanity.

[phillipsjk]

I suspect the OP really is the rawdog from Youtube.

If you look at his posting history, you will see he really likes master coin "because of the people behind it". He appears to have a strategy of investing in people, rather than specific technologies. That explains why he dismisses the importance of Bitcoin (the lead author was using a pseudonym and has left the project), while at the same time, elevates the importance of the Bitcoin Foundation. RawDog may have rightly pointed out that the BItcoin Foundation is now in trouble. Since he does not see any obvious leadership for Bitcoin, he concludes that Bitcoin must be in trouble as well.


I pointed out in a PM that mastercoin relies on Bitcoin. Don't recall a specific response to that.

[smoothie]

Andreas Antonop's tweet is the worst news yet that I've heard for bitcoin. 

Looks like Andreas is done with the Bitcoin Foundation. Good. Screw the Bitcoin Foundation.

"I can no longer have even the smallest association with the Bitcoin Foundation, because of the complete lack of transparency" https://twitter.com/aantonop/status/486926129409052672

The Bitcoin foundation has gained Pierce and lost Antonopolos.  This isn't going in the right direction at all.

You make as if "The Bitcoin Foundation" is anything of substance to Bitcoin.

The Bitcoin Foundation could die and never be spoken of ever again and it wouldn't affect the protocol of Bitcoin.

Boooyah! 

[smoothie]

I suspect the OP really is the rawdog from Youtube.

If you look at his posting history, you will see he really likes master coin "because of the people behind it". He appears to have a strategy of investing in people, rather than specific technologies. That explains why he dismisses the importance of Bitcoin (the lead author was using a pseudonym and has left the project), while at the same time, elevates the importance of the Bitcoin Foundation. RawDog may have rightly pointed out that the BItcoin Foundation is now in trouble. Since he does not see any obvious leadership for Bitcoin, he concludes that Bitcoin must be in trouble as well.


I pointed out in a PM that mastercoin relies on Bitcoin. Don't recall a specific response to that.

I guess if Gold doesn't have leadership then it is going to be in trouble right?

TBF =/= Bitcoin in any way shape or form. In fact I do not support or endorse TBF.

[jbreher]

When Gavin proposed the foundation a year or so before it was created the response here on this forum was overwhelmingly positive.  Only Theymos and a few others (myself included) voiced some concerns strongly enough to give the idea the thumbs down. 

Funny. I remember a spirited discussion with impassioned rhetoric both for and against...

Anyone who cares to can read it and make up their own mind:

  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=49841.0

That was merely the trial balloon. A lot of water passed under the bridge between that initial public brainstorm, and the actual announcement of TBF. See for example https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=113400.msg1224721#msg1224721

[dopecoindude]

Someone is trying to bring down Bitcoin!

I have a feeling its the creator behind RealCoin ....a  TBF member also...

On a side note.....anyone know if any good coin dev's lol ....looking for one for this coin:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=467641.msg7779997#msg7779997

send me a PM. Thanks!

[QuestionAuthority]

All the core developers who were with Bitcoin at the beginning are starting to leave, this could actually affect the price, especially if the Bitcoin foundation still has the ability to fuck with the network unless the community can create their own fork we all agree on.

What are you talking about? The Foundation is entirely separate from the Bitcoin Core development group. They don't have any power over the network.

Except 3 of them are paid by the foundation. When you pay someone a salary they become your employee. I have a tendency to do what my boss tells me to do.

[jonald_fyookball]

All the core developers who were with Bitcoin at the beginning are starting to leave, this could actually affect the price, especially if the Bitcoin foundation still has the ability to fuck with the network unless the community can create their own fork we all agree on.

What are you talking about? The Foundation is entirely separate from the Bitcoin Core development group. They don't have any power over the network.

Except 3 of them are paid by the foundation. When you pay someone a salary they become your employee. I have a tendency to do what my boss tells me to do.

QuestionAuthority, do you realize you were quoted by Coindesk?

[QuestionAuthority]

All the core developers who were with Bitcoin at the beginning are starting to leave, this could actually affect the price, especially if the Bitcoin foundation still has the ability to fuck with the network unless the community can create their own fork we all agree on.

What are you talking about? The Foundation is entirely separate from the Bitcoin Core development group. They don't have any power over the network.

Except 3 of them are paid by the foundation. When you pay someone a salary they become your employee. I have a tendency to do what my boss tells me to do.

QuestionAuthority, do you realize you were quoted by Coindesk?

No? Do you have a link?

[jonald_fyookball]

All the core developers who were with Bitcoin at the beginning are starting to leave, this could actually affect the price, especially if the Bitcoin foundation still has the ability to fuck with the network unless the community can create their own fork we all agree on.

What are you talking about? The Foundation is entirely separate from the Bitcoin Core development group. They don't have any power over the network.

Except 3 of them are paid by the foundation. When you pay someone a salary they become your employee. I have a tendency to do what my boss tells me to do.

QuestionAuthority, do you realize you were quoted by Coindesk?

No? Do you have a link?

http://www.coindesk.com/new-study-low-bitcoin-transaction-fees-unsustainable/

[QuestionAuthority]

All the core developers who were with Bitcoin at the beginning are starting to leave, this could actually affect the price, especially if the Bitcoin foundation still has the ability to fuck with the network unless the community can create their own fork we all agree on.

What are you talking about? The Foundation is entirely separate from the Bitcoin Core development group. They don't have any power over the network.

Except 3 of them are paid by the foundation. When you pay someone a salary they become your employee. I have a tendency to do what my boss tells me to do.

QuestionAuthority, do you realize you were quoted by Coindesk?

No? Do you have a link?

http://www.coindesk.com/new-study-low-bitcoin-transaction-fees-unsustainable/

Cool, thanks.

[adamas]

Someone is trying to bring down Bitcoin!

I have a feeling its the creator behind RealCoin ....a  TBF board member also...

[deftonikus]

 

in current state Bitcoin can do without BF.

[yatsey87]

Andreas Antonop's tweet is the worst news yet that I've heard for bitcoin. 

Looks like Andreas is done with the Bitcoin Foundation. Good. Screw the Bitcoin Foundation.

"I can no longer have even the smallest association with the Bitcoin Foundation, because of the complete lack of transparency" https://twitter.com/aantonop/status/486926129409052672

The Bitcoin foundation has gained Pierce and lost Antonopolos.  This isn't going in the right direction at all.

Does it really matter? The Bitcoin Foundation are what exactly? An unelected body that nobody voted for. Andreas can go on to serve the bitcoin community in better ways now. He doesn't need them and we don't need the Foundation.

[Kiloday]

Name one thing the foundation has done to benefit Bitcoin. Seriously, maybe I missed something but I dont know what good the foundation has ever brought...

Don't they pay Gavin's salary?

[oppahdoggystyle]

I do not think a person like him can singlehandedly move the Bitcoin market.

[Jamie_Boulder]

Name one thing the foundation has done to benefit Bitcoin. Seriously, maybe I missed something but I dont know what good the foundation has ever brought...

My thoughts exactly.

[JorgeStolfi]

I do not think a person like him can singlehandedly move the Bitcoin market.

Are you aware of Brock Pierce's experience with IGE?
EDIT: specified "his"

[iflash]

On the one hand it might be bad news when one after another core developers turns their back at Bitcoin but:

Do the masses care/even know about this? I doubt that very much.

[redhawk979]

Bitcoin high priest Andreas Antonopolous who vouched for Mark Karpeles and worked for Neo & Bee finally admits the Bitcoin Foundation is a sham.

Its cool though because Andreas loves talking about Bitcoin so we give him a pass everytime he wants to wipe the poop off his boots that hes been walking around. 

[DGulari]

Bitcoin high priest Andreas Antonopolous who vouched for Mark Karpeles and worked for Neo & Bee finally admits the Bitcoin Foundation is a sham.

Its cool though because Andreas loves talking about Bitcoin so we give him a pass everytime he wants to wipe the poop off his boots that hes been walking around. 

Hmmm  good point.  Still, you've got to love Andreas somehow.  He definitely comes off as one of the good guys.

[The Bitcoin Co-op]

Bitcoin high priest Andreas Antonopolous who vouched for Mark Karpeles and worked for Neo & Bee finally admits the Bitcoin Foundation is a sham.

Its cool though because Andreas loves talking about Bitcoin so we give him a pass everytime he wants to wipe the poop off his boots that hes been walking around. 

Hmmm  good point.  Still, you've got to love Andreas somehow.  He definitely comes off as one of the good guys.

People I know who started bringing up the Karpeles and Neo & Bee things first are all Foundation members who post on their forums. I'm pretty sure it's a PR counter-attack they chose to lessen the blow, true or not

[hmmmstrange]

So what?
How is that going to affect the BTC price in negative way?! I dont get it, please someone explain!

The President of The Bitcoin Foundation  (the "The" being part of its name), billionaire virtual currency entrepreneur Brock Pierce, tells the Wall Street Journal that people should use RealCoin, a second-generation cryptocurrency, for e-commerce, instead of Bitcoin; since the latter is incurably volatile while RealCoin is pegged to the dollar. (However he expects some fringe bitcoiners to be displeased for silly ideological reasons.) 

At least the mastercoin foundation finally kicked Brock to the curb today.

[JorgeStolfi]

At least the mastercoin foundation finally kicked Brock to the curb today.

Wow! Any link?

[hmmmstrange]

At least the mastercoin foundation finally kicked Brock to the curb today.

Wow! Any link?

No one is talking about it. He was removed yesterday or today. Brock is no longer listed @ http://mastercoinfoundation.org/#board as a board member. They forgot to change the 7 to a 6 though. "Original 7 Volunteer Board Members"

[tvbcof]

When Gavin proposed the foundation a year or so before it was created the response here on this forum was overwhelmingly positive.  Only Theymos and a few others (myself included) voiced some concerns strongly enough to give the idea the thumbs down. 

Funny. I remember a spirited discussion with impassioned rhetoric both for and against...

Anyone who cares to can read it and make up their own mind:

  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=49841.0

That was merely the trial balloon. A lot of water passed under the bridge between that initial public brainstorm, and the actual announcement of TBF. See for example https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=113400.msg1224721#msg1224721

Ya, sure, AFTER the Bitcoin Foundation was created (and nearly immediately proved a disaster), AND after a few intrepid people pushed out into the realm of negativity THEN lots of people piled on.  Big deal.  That's usually how it works.  Same thing happened with Mike Hearn and his various bullshit.

[jbreher]

Ya, sure, AFTER the Bitcoin Foundation was created (and nearly immediately proved a disaster), AND after a few intrepid people pushed out into the realm of negativity THEN lots of people piled on.  Big deal.  That's usually how it works.  Same thing happened with Mike Hearn and his various bullshit.

Ok. Got it. You were the first. Cool.

Moving on to things of greater import, what more info exists of BP being cast off the 'Mastercoin Board' (whatever the hell that is)?

[Corelianer]

I think there is a need for the Bitcoin Foundation. That's why I recently joined as a member.
I think it's the right place to pay the coredeveloper(s) by a member-fee.

So the main purpose is get some (more than 1 hopefully soon) fulltime developers working with the code and as project managers.

Besides that there is also a need for marketing, that's not existent at the moment. imho
This could be financed through member-fees too, if there are enough.
Or the foundation could sell high quality promotion items. The ones I found where kinda cheap.

I think we don't want a big "waterhead", but just having nothing would mean to run like a headless chicken.

As a benefit for members they should be able to vote. There should be regular online-votings about unimportant things at first to find out what people expect from the foundation to do.

To have such a process could be vital to a coordinated and directed support reather than just a chaotic ammount of comments in maillists, opinions in boards and github-comments.

[nutildah]

The market disagrees with the thread title, and from what I gather most of the BTC community doesn't give a hoot about the foundation.

But you guys should listen to this speech given by Andreas not too long ago, if you haven't heard it already, about why regulation doesn't work in the financial industry.

Its brilliant and should be required listening for modern day earth citizens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgEDOBgYg-g

[JorgeStolfi]

I think there is a need for the Bitcoin Foundation. That's why I recently joined as a member. [ ... ]
As a benefit for members they should be able to vote. There should be regular online-votings about unimportant things at first to find out what people expect from the foundation to do.

I read their bylaws a while ago.  IIRC they gave the board of directors total power, including changing the bylaws without even telling the ordinary members.  Perhaps I misread, you'd better check. (But one is not a true bitcoiner if one does not give one's bitcoins to a bitcoin outfit before reading the contract, ain't that so?  )

[onlyu]

Just ignore the foundation and continue doing what we do here.

[randayh]

Why do people always look to one source for leadership? Is this because we are all programmed to be slaves under kingly rule.

Who is the foundation anyway? How do they own the Bitcoin Network? Bitcoin needs to stay decentralized in all aspects. We all know what happens when there is too much concentration of power in any one thing. Greed, corruption, fraud, abuse......

[Nerazzura]

All the core developers who were with Bitcoin at the beginning are starting to leave, this could actually affect the price, especially if the Bitcoin foundation still has the ability to fuck with the network unless the community can create their own fork we all agree on.

But in the past month, this neighborhood certainly has not deterred bitcoin trading volume in the market. Although the future is unknown, bitcoin prices have been trending up over the last month.

As the number of regulatory issues being discussed, many are wondering what it will do to the value of bitcoin. BTC did not operate in a vacuum. Regulatory decisions that will affect the price of bitcoin. The question is: will it help or hurt the value?

[RawDog]

Why do people always look to one source for leadership? Is this because we are all programmed to be slaves under kingly rule.

Who is the foundation anyway? How do they own the Bitcoin Network? Bitcoin needs to stay decentralized in all aspects. We all know what happens when there is too much concentration of power in any one thing. Greed, corruption, fraud, abuse......

Reminds me of W3C who held themselves out to be the supreme authority on what HTML is.  Everyone (Microsoft) ignored their commandments and just carried on doing it the way they like.  W3C is totally marginalized by the fact that the community will do what works and what they like - without regard to what some central authority thinks.  Trying to impose ideals on others tends to be met with raging failure.

[JorgeStolfi]

Reminds me of W3C who held themselves out to be the supreme authority on what HTML is.  Everyone (Microsoft) ignored their commandments and just carried on doing it the way they like.  W3C is totally marginalized by the fact that the community will do what works and what they like - without regard to what some central authority thinks.  Trying to impose ideals on others tends to be met with raging failure.

I don't know much about the W3C, but it seems to be respected by everybody EXCEPT Microsoft, who has always ignored standards.

[tvbcof]

Ya, sure, AFTER the Bitcoin Foundation was created (and nearly immediately proved a disaster), AND after a few intrepid people pushed out into the realm of negativity THEN lots of people piled on.  Big deal.  That's usually how it works.  Same thing happened with Mike Hearn and his various bullshit.

Ok. Got it. You were the first. Cool.

Good slam.  I approve!  You know what they say: "It's hard to be humble when one is perfect in every way."

Moving on to things of greater import, what more info exists of BP being cast off the 'Mastercoin Board' (whatever the hell that is)?

I need to finally get around to researching Mastercoin one of these days (and, unfortunately, understanding the players and the relationships they form is a key part of a full understanding.)

From what little I've run across, it seems like it might be associated with Todd's concept of a 'generic timestamping system' which could be used for many purposes (including monetary systems.)  That is a really interesting and potentially very valuable thing.  If such a thing develops and is implementable I would say that Bitcoin has truly succeeded sparking a revolution.

[InwardContour]

I think there is a need for the Bitcoin Foundation. That's why I recently joined as a member. [ ... ]
As a benefit for members they should be able to vote. There should be regular online-votings about unimportant things at first to find out what people expect from the foundation to do.

I read their bylaws a while ago.  IIRC they gave the board of directors total power, including changing the bylaws without even telling the ordinary members.  Perhaps I misread, you'd better check. (But one is not a true bitcoiner if one does not give one's bitcoins to a bitcoin outfit before reading the contract, ain't that so?  )

TBF really is a very opaque entity, especially considering how transparent the blockchain makes sending money.

IMO there should be some kind of forum where the devs can meet and discuss ideas as to how to improve bitcoin and the protocol and respond to potential attacks, but I don't think TBF is the right one. 

[RawDog]

Reminds me of W3C who held themselves out to be the supreme authority on what HTML is.  Everyone (Microsoft) ignored their commandments and just carried on doing it the way they like.  W3C is totally marginalized by the fact that the community will do what works and what they like - without regard to what some central authority thinks.  Trying to impose ideals on others tends to be met with raging failure.

I don't know much about the W3C, but it seems to be respected by everybody EXCEPT Microsoft, who has always ignored standards.

Tim Berners Lee who runs around telling journalists he invented the internet runs (in part) W3C.  They try to make things standard - it just doesn't work.  The community does what they like despite any standards authority.  Finally, the standards authority adjusts the standards down to what those in the community are doing.  It is a real apple cart / donkey thing.  

btw - Berners Lee didn't even invent the hyperlink, which more or less started it all going.  The only thing Berners Lee did, was to say: "don't call me and ask me what encoding I'll use, if you go on my network (www), then just use <a href="[URL]"></a>"  That's it.  He merely published his version of a hyperlink encoding to be used on his network www.  Then everyone used that one as a
default.  Now he likes to run around taking credit for the entire Internet.  He actually did almost nothing.

Conversely, our friend Marc Andreesen built an awesome browser which made using the Internet really easy.  Andreesen doesn't go around telling journalists he invented the Internet but did 1000X what Berners Lee did to get it going.  

That's why Berners Lee works at a bullshit org like W3C and Andreesen is going very cool cutting edge VC shit. 

[JorgeStolfi]

Reminds me of W3C who held themselves out to be the supreme authority on what HTML is.  Everyone (Microsoft) ignored their commandments and just carried on doing it the way they like.  W3C is totally marginalized by the fact that the community will do what works and what they like - without regard to what some central authority thinks.  Trying to impose ideals on others tends to be met with raging failure.

I don't know much about the W3C, but it seems to be respected by everybody EXCEPT Microsoft, who has always ignored standards.

btw - Berners Lee didn't even invent the hyperlink, which more or less started it all going.  The only thing Berners Lee did, was to say: "don't call me and ask me what encoding I'll use, if you go on my network (www), then just use [ a href="http://" ] [ /a ]"  That's it.  He merely published his version of a hyperlink encoding to be used on his network www.  Then everyone used that one as a
default.

Well, I don't know if it was him, but the invention of WWW was a bit more than that.  It looks trivial in retrospect, but it took years to be invented.  like using \n to separate lines in files, instead of fixed-length records; or many other great inventions.  You know the story of the egg of Columbus?

I used the internet for 10-12 years before WWW.  It was basically FTP, Telnet (remote lohin), SMTP (email) and USENET (a big set of forums).  You used FTP to download a text file, read it using you favorite editor (emacs, 'more', 'cat', whatever); if it referenced another remote file you entered its location and name into FTP, manually, and repeated.  

I used briefly Hypercard on Macintosh, a rudimentary hyperlink system; but links were limited to "stacks of cards" (Hypercard files) on the same machine.  And they were unportable outsdie the Macs.  

When WWW came out, it had several things that worked together, that made it revolutionary and an instant succes: the (then-)standardized and (then-)simple and (then-)efficient platform-independent HTML document format (at the time, not even text files were easily ported between Unix, Mac and Windows);  "logical" markup, instead of "physical", that would allow the same document to be read in any machine, with any screen resolution and size, and any font of any size; easily embedded images;  hyperlinks and the HTTP protocol to fetch a file automatically by clicking on the link;  and the concept of WWW files being served to absolutely any requesting machines, without need for registration or login and without setting up a "session".  (Public FTP servers were available at some sites but they still required a formal login as "guest").  And the concept of a "WWW browser" that would display HTML and fetch HTTP links without the users having to learn any commands.  And a FREE serviceable borwser -- not Andreessen's Netscape, which came out years later, but a thing caled Mosaic that had been written by the National Center for Supercomputer Applications (NCSA), which IIRC was the browser used at CERN.

Netscape was an improved and expanded version of Mosaic and a commercial or semi-comercial product, but I don't recall it having contributed any notable innovations.  Perhaps Javascript, and/or WYSIWYG editing of HTML files, and/or secure HTTP?  (But the public-key crypto protocols that made secure HTTP possible were not Netscape's invention.)

I don't know if Andreessen's made much money with Netscape; IIRC he made his millions later, as manager or something of eBay.  Or did I get it backwards?
[/quote]

[Corelianer]

Why do people always look to one source for leadership? Is this because we are all programmed to be slaves under kingly rule.

Who is the foundation anyway? How do they own the Bitcoin Network? Bitcoin needs to stay decentralized in all aspects. We all know what happens when there is too much concentration of power in any one thing. Greed, corruption, fraud, abuse......

Economical, the BF has not much saying anyway, comparing it to a king in a kingdom is a faulty comparison. The BF is more a coordinator than a king.

A protocol can work very well decentralized. But an organization can't work decentralized in an efficient manner. Sure bitcoin can also develop if everyone does their own thing, but it will take longer.

Lets assume the Bitcoin Foundation members decided to hire an additional developper and then had to vote for the right person.
In fact Gavin Anderson would have to work with that person the most. So wouldn't it be right that he can choose the person?

Reather than letting hundrets of people around the world voting for someone that they might not even know?

Democracy is good, but it has disadvantages and decentralization has it's limits.

[The Bitcoin Co-op]

I think that as blockchain technology develops, it will become possible to design decentralized autonomous organizations that are more efficient than any traditional structure. Paying Gavin does not require a human middleman, at the very least.

In any event, Andreas' criticism was lack of transparency, not that the organization is centralized. I don't see how more transparency would make the Foundation less efficient. They shouldn't be planning the types of things that would fail under public scrutiny.

[JorgeStolfi]

Economical, the BF has not much saying anyway, comparing it to a king in a kingdom is a faulty comparison. The BF is more a coordinator than a king.

A protocol can work very well decentralized. But an organization can't work decentralized in an efficient manner. Sure bitcoin can also develop if everyone does their own thing, but it will take longer.

Lets assume the Bitcoin Foundation members decided to hire an additional developper and then had to vote for the right person.  In fact Gavin Anderson would have to work with that person the most. So wouldn't it be right that he can choose the person?

Reather than letting hundrets of people around the world voting for someone that they might not even know?

Democracy is good, but it has disadvantages and decentralization has it's limits.

If the mission of the BF was limited to maintaining the software and coordinating protocol changes, a closed management might be justifiable.  

However, the BF was created with the goal of keeping its founders in control of the Bitcoin "industry", e.g. by endorsing or blacklisting exchanges and other bitcoin ventures, by being the obvious representatives of the community for the media and in negotiations with the government, by running and being keynote speakers at bitcoin conferences, and so on.  Wanting to do that with a closed-club structure is totally evil, no matter what one thinks of bitcoin.  

The BF has in the past endorsed MtGOX, and given the 1984 treatment to bitcoiners who would not cooperate with the club, like Mircea Popescu and the Chinese exchange owners other than Bobby Lee.

If someone decided to corner the Bitcoin "industry" for his own profit, he should begin by buying his way into the top ranks of the BF.  Then he could even create his own centralized altcoin to compete with bitcoin, and the BF would not even whisper a "but-but-but...".

[JorgeStolfi]

In any event, Gavin's criticism was lack of transparency, not that the organization is centralized.

It was Andreas who said that. Gavin apparently disputed his claim.

[Swordsoffreedom]

I think that as blockchain technology develops, it will become possible to design decentralized autonomous organizations that are more efficient than any traditional structure. Paying Gavin does not require a human middleman, at the very least.

In any event, Gavin's criticism was lack of transparency, not that the organization is centralized. I don't see how more transparency would make the Foundation less efficient. They shouldn't be planning the types of things that would fail under public scrutiny.

That makes sense since a DAC will provide an incentive to user in that ecosystem strangely enough even though Bitcoin is a new and emerging technology its going through another transition phase towards these 2.0 Variants so in the future it may be possible to have decentralized organizations in charge to fund projects.

Interesting stuff from a wired article on DAC's
http://www.wired.com/2014/07/inside-dark-wallet/

Taaki goes on to describe the bitcoin anarchist’s elusive ideal: decentralized, autonomous corporations whose equity is tracked in the bitcoin blockchain rather than in legal contracts and whose funds are held at a bitcoin address controlled in part by every stakeholder. With tricks like multisignature transactions, it’s theoretically possible to create accounts in which thousands of people control a pool of bitcoins simultaneously with no leader, and coins can only be moved when some majority agrees to cryptographically sign a transaction.

In that future, math and consensus, not violence, might govern the control of resources. The result, as Taaki describes it, would be a new society where code replaces courts and men with guns as the arbiter of civilization. “We have new tools, a new class of mathematical contracts, based on the incorruptible rules of the cosmos,” he says, his voice resonating through the empty building.

[Catmoonglow]

Olivier Janssens was completely right on looking for alternative to the foundation.

[hashman]

Economical, the BF has not much saying anyway, comparing it to a king in a kingdom is a faulty comparison. The BF is more a coordinator than a king.

I would go with jester.  Or perhaps disposable ambassador. 

[JorgeStolfi]

Taaki goes on to describe the bitcoin anarchist’s elusive ideal: decentralized, autonomous corporations whose equity is tracked in the bitcoin blockchain rather than in legal contracts and whose funds are held at a bitcoin address controlled in part by every stakeholder. [ ... ] In that future, math and consensus, not violence, might govern the control of resources. The result, as Taaki describes it, would be a new society where code replaces courts and men with guns as the arbiter of civilization. “We have new tools, a new class of mathematical contracts, based on the incorruptible rules of the cosmos,” he says, his voice resonating through the empty building.

I am trying to imagine armed robbers breaking into Taaki's home to steal his car and valuable trinkets, pointing their guns at the blockchain, and leaving frustrated because it won't transfer his property to their address.

By the way, wasn't Taaki involved with Intersango?

[Nerazzura]

I think there is a need for the Bitcoin Foundation. That's why I recently joined as a member.
I think it's the right place to pay the coredeveloper(s) by a member-fee.

So the main purpose is get some (more than 1 hopefully soon) fulltime developers working with the code and as project managers.

Besides that there is also a need for marketing, that's not existent at the moment. imho
This could be financed through member-fees too, if there are enough.
Or the foundation could sell high quality promotion items. The ones I found where kinda cheap.

I think we don't want a big "waterhead", but just having nothing would mean to run like a headless chicken.

As a benefit for members they should be able to vote. There should be regular online-votings about unimportant things at first to find out what people expect from the foundation to do.

To have such a process could be vital to a coordinated and directed support reather than just a chaotic ammount of comments in maillists, opinions in boards and github-comments.

it's extacly. Talk about Bitcoin to people who are interested. Write about it on your blog Bitcoin. Tell your favorite stores that you would like to pay using Bitcoin. Help keep the list accurate and actual sellers. Or be creative and make Bitcoin t-shirts for your own good.
The easiest way to help is to donate some bitcoin Bitcoin Foundation. Or you can help fund any projects related to Bitcoin that you believe will benefit our future.

[Baitty]

I think there is a need for the Bitcoin Foundation. That's why I recently joined as a member.
I think it's the right place to pay the coredeveloper(s) by a member-fee.

So the main purpose is get some (more than 1 hopefully soon) fulltime developers working with the code and as project managers.

Besides that there is also a need for marketing, that's not existent at the moment. imho
This could be financed through member-fees too, if there are enough.
Or the foundation could sell high quality promotion items. The ones I found where kinda cheap.

I think we don't want a big "waterhead", but just having nothing would mean to run like a headless chicken.

As a benefit for members they should be able to vote. There should be regular online-votings about unimportant things at first to find out what people expect from the foundation to do.

To have such a process could be vital to a coordinated and directed support reather than just a chaotic ammount of comments in maillists, opinions in boards and github-comments.

it's extacly. Talk about Bitcoin to people who are interested. Write about it on your blog Bitcoin. Tell your favorite stores that you would like to pay using Bitcoin. Help keep the list accurate and actual sellers. Or be creative and make Bitcoin t-shirts for your own good.
The easiest way to help is to donate some bitcoin Bitcoin Foundation. Or you can help fund any projects related to Bitcoin that you believe will benefit our future.

It's hard to find out who is interested in Bitcoin and who isn't I have struggled with that for a long time. A lot of people I try to talk to about it find it confusing and are not interested and always compare it to illegal activities which is a little unfortunate.

[CokeCoin]

Can someone offer some context/background for this?
Thanks in advance.

[mikewirth]

Can someone offer some context/background for this?
Thanks in advance.

The Bitcoin foundation has gained Pierce and lost Antonopolos.  This isn't going in the right direction at all.

[The Bitcoin Co-op]

In any event, Gavin's criticism was lack of transparency, not that the organization is centralized.

It was Andreas who said that. Gavin apparently disputed his claim.

Sorry, I meant to type "Andreas." I'm aware and surprised that Gavin defends the Foundation.

[Musent]

Small blow I'd say but it will continue, not halt all together.

[QuestionAuthority]

In any event, Gavin's criticism was lack of transparency, not that the organization is centralized.

It was Andreas who said that. Gavin apparently disputed his claim.

Sorry, I meant to type "Andreas." I'm aware and surprised that Gavin defends the Foundation.

You're surprised that a founding permanent member of TBF aggressively defends it. Yeah, funny that!

[tvbcof]

In any event, Gavin's criticism was lack of transparency, not that the organization is centralized.

It was Andreas who said that. Gavin apparently disputed his claim.

Sorry, I meant to type "Andreas." I'm aware and surprised that Gavin defends the Foundation.

I'm not terribly surprised.  Seems to me that Gavin believes basically that open source code is good enough and the userbase should be happy to have that.  Also, of course, the Bitcoin Foundation pays him although he's stated that he made enough on Bitcoin that he doesn't really need the money.

Gavin has and will give a sort of a 'heads up' when he visits the CIA or CFR, but that makes sense since not doing so (and getting caught) would probably go over poorly.  It annoyed me significantly that Gavin would not make any efforts to stipulate that 'open' was an important principle in Bitcoin-land and necessary for his participation at the CFR even, document and publish his experiences, and didn't even bother to follow up the CFR thread with an after action report.  Had he had no off-the-record conversations with the CFR participants, it would have taken less than a minute to state this.  The logical inference is that he probably did have such conversations.  On cannot escape feeling as though Gavin feels more of a sense of unity with the CFR parties than with the Bitcoin userbase (where the two sets don't overlap.)

[EnterReturn]

Olivier Janssens was completely right on looking for alternative to the foundation.

http://nakamotoinstitute.org/
Love what they've been doing but I don't think there should be "one" alternative. A centralized institution becomes political and eventually loses its best people. This is exactly whats happening to the BitCoin Foundation.

[neverminer77]

http://nakamotoinstitute.org/
Love what they've been doing but I don't think there should be "one" alternative. A centralized institution becomes political and eventually loses its best people. This is exactly whats happening to the BitCoin Foundation.

Oliver Janssens was/is looking for a decentralized software solution. He isn't looking for another centralized alternative to the foundation, but rather making it unnecessary.

[Swordsoffreedom]

Taaki goes on to describe the bitcoin anarchist’s elusive ideal: decentralized, autonomous corporations whose equity is tracked in the bitcoin blockchain rather than in legal contracts and whose funds are held at a bitcoin address controlled in part by every stakeholder. [ ... ] In that future, math and consensus, not violence, might govern the control of resources. The result, as Taaki describes it, would be a new society where code replaces courts and men with guns as the arbiter of civilization. “We have new tools, a new class of mathematical contracts, based on the incorruptible rules of the cosmos,” he says, his voice resonating through the empty building.

I am trying to imagine armed robbers breaking into Taaki's home to steal his car and valuable trinkets, pointing their guns at the blockchain, and leaving frustrated because it won't transfer his property to their address.

By the way, wasn't Taaki involved with Intersango?

Ha-ha that would be funny, but it really is more like keep Taaki around until he gives up the private key
Else bring him with them lol.

I didn't know about Intersango before but it looks like he was the founder of it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-DVOYyx_6U

Neat stuff even Doog worked on it from JD (edit in if thats his real pic its far from what I imagined lol)
https://github.com/dooglus/intersango

[theblacksquid]

http://nakamotoinstitute.org/
Love what they've been doing but I don't think there should be "one" alternative. A centralized institution becomes political and eventually loses its best people. This is exactly whats happening to the BitCoin Foundation.

Oliver Janssens was/is looking for a decentralized software solution. He isn't looking for another centralized alternative to the foundation, but rather making it unnecessary.

A Decentralized Autonomous Organization would be the solution. I'm actually quite fascinated by it's implementation in Ethereum, and I'm hoping we could achieve atleast a third of that in the core protocol.

[Nerazzura]

I think there is a need for the Bitcoin Foundation. That's why I recently joined as a member.
I think it's the right place to pay the coredeveloper(s) by a member-fee.

So the main purpose is get some (more than 1 hopefully soon) fulltime developers working with the code and as project managers.

Besides that there is also a need for marketing, that's not existent at the moment. imho
This could be financed through member-fees too, if there are enough.
Or the foundation could sell high quality promotion items. The ones I found where kinda cheap.

I think we don't want a big "waterhead", but just having nothing would mean to run like a headless chicken.

As a benefit for members they should be able to vote. There should be regular online-votings about unimportant things at first to find out what people expect from the foundation to do.

To have such a process could be vital to a coordinated and directed support reather than just a chaotic ammount of comments in maillists, opinions in boards and github-comments.

it's extacly. Talk about Bitcoin to people who are interested. Write about it on your blog Bitcoin. Tell your favorite stores that you would like to pay using Bitcoin. Help keep the list accurate and actual sellers. Or be creative and make Bitcoin t-shirts for your own good.
The easiest way to help is to donate some bitcoin Bitcoin Foundation. Or you can help fund any projects related to Bitcoin that you believe will benefit our future.

It's hard to find out who is interested in Bitcoin and who isn't I have struggled with that for a long time. A lot of people I try to talk to about it find it confusing and are not interested and always compare it to illegal activities which is a little unfortunate.

exactly once, only in forums like this we can share with them and tell that like bitcoin, and it makes me more enthusiastic and confident. as all here know about bitcoin even for common things

[RodeoX]

I would say it was a blow to the foundation, but nothing at all to bitcoin.

[GTA]

I am starting to wonder why there's a Bitcoin Foundation at all. I haven't heard them doing anything other than participating in drama. I write Bitcoin news regularly and ... the Foundation doesn't appear all that often in my research. Plus, the one time I contacted them I got nothing. I see more Bitcoin advocacy and evangelism from Bitpay and Coinbase.

[norgan]

I am starting to wonder why there's a Bitcoin Foundation at all. I haven't heard them doing anything other than participating in drama. I write Bitcoin news regularly and ... the Foundation doesn't appear all that often in my research. Plus, the one time I contacted them I got nothing. I see more Bitcoin advocacy and evangelism from Bitpay and Coinbase.

it's just a marketing thing. We need someone out there selling Bitcoin to retailers, companies and individuals. It kind of sells itself but having someone there to assure people of any concerns will help grow Bitcoin even faster.
One foundation, many associations, thousands of individuals, it all achieves the same thing.

[PHash]

Go rawdawg!

[bitcoinbeliever]

I am starting to wonder why there's a Bitcoin Foundation at all. I haven't heard them doing anything other than participating in drama. I write Bitcoin news regularly and ... the Foundation doesn't appear all that often in my research. Plus, the one time I contacted them I got nothing. I see more Bitcoin advocacy and evangelism from Bitpay and Coinbase.

They pay Gavin.  That's reason enough to exist.