Bitcoin is unfair to the non tech-savvy

[commandrix]

Bitcoin traders are sometimes accused of unfairly profiting from an opaque asset beyond the understanding of ordinary people.
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/currency/2014/07/bidding-on-bitcoin.html

Yesterday I met a couple of my old classmates on the street. They asked about Bitcoin and started to whine that most people don't understand the mathematical fundamentals behind Bitcoin and therefore had no realistic chance to invest when it was cheap. Of course, I encouraged them to invest now (better late than never) but seems that people generally rather enjoy wallowing in their own self-pity than take steps to adapt and overcome.

Even in this forum I have seen demeaning opinions about people who bought in when Bitcoin was trading single digits --- "they are not real investors and their earnings are equivalent to winning with a lottery ticket".

I can see that these issues can raise some negative emotions and Bitcoin has even not risen to 6666$ yet . What's the worst case scenario to follow? Bitcoin Jesus getting beaten up by angry conventional Warren Buffer apprentices?

If everything was fair, it would be 4 Kelvin
everywhere in the universe...

True enough -- I suppose a little hydrogen atom floating around somewhere would say that stars were unfair because their hydrogen atoms took the trouble to come together through gravity to the point where they could become helium through a nuclear reaction. Just since I got serious about using Bitcoin, I've watched it go from 400-some dollars (I forget exactly now) to over $600, so it's not like I'm complaining. I figure "fair" is what happens when you're not afraid to put in the effort to make a profit and don't let some lazy loser try to steal it from you.

[commandrix]

But not everyone always pays attention to techy things, if people are going to introduce others into the bitcoin world they need a basis to start from. Not a lot of people in 2011 probably even knew what it was or how to get it. Of course jumping on the bandwagon now is kind of dumb because of how high priced they are and how difficult mining or getting any is.

Why even open your mouth to prove the world that you're dumb?

Its the same thing ppl said in 2011: $11 for a btc? are you dumb? it was only $.01 in 2010. Now i cant even buy 1000btc OMG.....


Also if mining is still easy, would the price still be at current level? Are you that stupid to not understanding basic economy?

Would it help if I wrote a series of articles about Economics 101 as it applies to Bitcoin?

[seriouscoin]

I don't get people who complain about having missed the boat on bitcoin. There are many penny stocks or sometimes even regular stocks that go up a lot more than bitcoin. So what? You can still trade it and profit from it.

I have never seen a penny stock or regular stock grow the equivalent of 12 million% in 4 years like bitcoin. Correct me if I am wrong.

This. Bitcoin WAS the one in a lifetime get-rich-quick opportunity. I readed about it back in about 2009, I saw it linked to criminal activity so forgot about it. I saw it again years later when the bubble exploded, too fucking late johnny boy. Fuck my luck. It's specially frustrating since I readed about it in fucking 2009. Thanks to it im suicidal since that day. I could have retired my entire fucking family and myself, but no! of course, I had to have bad fucking luck. Now im stuck in this shit hole for life, slaving away for minimum wage and that's if I ever find a job. God fucking sakes. Bitcoin solves shit nothing for the 99.99% of people. What changed pre-post Bitcoin for 99.99% of people? That's right, bout fucking nothing. If I had to point a change, in any case it made me suicidal as fuck. Whenever I talk to someone about Bitcoin, they just don't see the appeal, they think it's too late to invest, to make any life-changing money, at least not without having a shit ton of money required to buy a good amount of BTC by now. Exactly, BTC only changed lives for these that:

1) Were lucky as fuck enough to invest/mine in the early days.
2) Already had a decent amount of money

For the rest it's nothing. The social pyramid is and will be the fucking same, but now the few that had luck to be on the right moment at the right time made a killing and own a big part of the supply, which will continue to stack due being able to buy ASICS, re-invest, and so on. The poor attracts more poor, the money attracts more money. Basic fact. It's specially ironic how a lot of these broke NEET guys that used to complain about how fucked up wealth distribution is, that had the luck to mine shit tons effortlessly or buy a couple thousand BTC to buy some weed in SilkRoad or whatever, found out two years later they are multimillonaires, and then whenever they get approached by a guy on their former position complaining about how fucked up wealth distribution is, say "if you are poor you deserve it, get a job" and help you in your dead end position with shit nothing when 1 BTC means shit nothing to them, while it would mean a world to a person like me because it would mean being able to at least, have a somewhat materializable idea of a business or investment and try to start from a fair position. No matter what greed will always be there, fiat, Bitcoin or who the fuck knows what. The human race is pathetic and ready for extinction.

Please kill yourself, dont waste any more oxygen of this world.

[seriouscoin]

But not everyone always pays attention to techy things, if people are going to introduce others into the bitcoin world they need a basis to start from. Not a lot of people in 2011 probably even knew what it was or how to get it. Of course jumping on the bandwagon now is kind of dumb because of how high priced they are and how difficult mining or getting any is.

Why even open your mouth to prove the world that you're dumb?

Its the same thing ppl said in 2011: $11 for a btc? are you dumb? it was only $.01 in 2010. Now i cant even buy 1000btc OMG.....


Also if mining is still easy, would the price still be at current level? Are you that stupid to not understanding basic economy?

Would it help if I wrote a series of articles about Economics 101 as it applies to Bitcoin?

Ask the idiots who think btc can be "printed" out of thin air that question.
 

[jonald_fyookball]

. It's unfair to people NOW because the only possible way to get any is from signature campaigns and such.

Bitcoin is a form of money.

Are you saying it's unfair that people have to actually earn their money by providing some kind of value?
Or, are you saying early adopters shouldn't have been rewarded for their risk in putting their time and energy into an unproven technology and helping Bitcoin get to where it is now?

What are you saying?

Sure we all wish we were adopters in 2009.  Hindsight is always 20x20.
But to say it's "unfair" makes you look like a whiner or a freeloader.

[seriouscoin]

. It's unfair to people NOW because the only possible way to get any is from signature campaigns and such.

Bitcoin is a form of money.

Are you saying it's unfair that people have to actually earn their money by providing some kind of value?
Or, are you saying early adopters shouldn't have been rewarded for their risk in putting their time and energy into an unproven technology and helping Bitcoin get to where it is now?

What are you saying?

Sure we all wish we were adopters in 2009.  Hindsight is always 20x20.
But to say it's "unfair" makes you look like a whiner or a freeloader.

Hes saying the ONLY way to get fiat money , say USD, is to be a homeless bum and beg for hand out.

[giveBTCpls]

I don't get people who complain about having missed the boat on bitcoin. There are many penny stocks or sometimes even regular stocks that go up a lot more than bitcoin. So what? You can still trade it and profit from it.

I have never seen a penny stock or regular stock grow the equivalent of 12 million% in 4 years like bitcoin. Correct me if I am wrong.

This. Bitcoin WAS the one in a lifetime get-rich-quick opportunity. I readed about it back in about 2009, I saw it linked to criminal activity so forgot about it. I saw it again years later when the bubble exploded, too fucking late johnny boy. Fuck my luck. It's specially frustrating since I readed about it in fucking 2009. Thanks to it im suicidal since that day. I could have retired my entire fucking family and myself, but no! of course, I had to have bad fucking luck. Now im stuck in this shit hole for life, slaving away for minimum wage and that's if I ever find a job. God fucking sakes. Bitcoin solves shit nothing for the 99.99% of people. What changed pre-post Bitcoin for 99.99% of people? That's right, bout fucking nothing. If I had to point a change, in any case it made me suicidal as fuck. Whenever I talk to someone about Bitcoin, they just don't see the appeal, they think it's too late to invest, to make any life-changing money, at least not without having a shit ton of money required to buy a good amount of BTC by now. Exactly, BTC only changed lives for these that:

1) Were lucky as fuck enough to invest/mine in the early days.
2) Already had a decent amount of money

For the rest it's nothing. The social pyramid is and will be the fucking same, but now the few that had luck to be on the right moment at the right time made a killing and own a big part of the supply, which will continue to stack due being able to buy ASICS, re-invest, and so on. The poor attracts more poor, the money attracts more money. Basic fact. It's specially ironic how a lot of these broke NEET guys that used to complain about how fucked up wealth distribution is, that had the luck to mine shit tons effortlessly or buy a couple thousand BTC to buy some weed in SilkRoad or whatever, found out two years later they are multimillonaires, and then whenever they get approached by a guy on their former position complaining about how fucked up wealth distribution is, say "if you are poor you deserve it, get a job" and help you in your dead end position with shit nothing when 1 BTC means shit nothing to them, while it would mean a world to a person like me because it would mean being able to at least, have a somewhat materializable idea of a business or investment and try to start from a fair position. No matter what greed will always be there, fiat, Bitcoin or who the fuck knows what. The human race is pathetic and ready for extinction.

Please kill yourself, dont waste any more oxygen of this world.

Typical reply from the braindead guy described in my post. Thanks for the info.

[giveBTCpls]

. It's unfair to people NOW because the only possible way to get any is from signature campaigns and such.

Bitcoin is a form of money.

Are you saying it's unfair that people have to actually earn their money by providing some kind of value?
Or, are you saying early adopters shouldn't have been rewarded for their risk in putting their time and energy into an unproven technology and helping Bitcoin get to where it is now?

What are you saying?

Sure we all wish we were adopters in 2009.  Hindsight is always 20x20.
But to say it's "unfair" makes you look like a whiner or a freeloader.

More than unfair what's being discussed is it was just pure fucking luck. Most people that got rich forgot about their wallets and got the coins for mundane shit, such as buying drugs in SilkRoad or mining some for shits and giggles, not because they knew the price would explode.

[Lauda]

Such people are only non tech-savy because of their ignorance. Stop doing useless things in life and learn, it's not even complicated.

But not everyone always pays attention to techy things, if people are going to introduce others into the bitcoin world they need a basis to start from. Not a lot of people in 2011 probably even knew what it was or how to get it. Of course jumping on the bandwagon now is kind of dumb because of how high priced they are and how difficult mining or getting any is.

I wasn't directly referring to bitcoin here. Also I do not know why people need to understand how Bitcoin is being made? Does the majority know how paper money is being made except of that it is being printed? No.

[sugarfree]

"Bitcoin is hardly in a position to replace national currencies."

Famous last words...

Is that really all you took from that article? That's honestly the only thought you had?

[PolarPoint]

Investment is never fair. Two people can buy the same investment at the same time and one could loose and the other could profit. It takes knowledge, instincts and strategy to profit.

I have miss the boat too. I think we will never see a 1000 fold rise in bitcoin prices again, but most don't give up and complaint about not being a early adopter. We may experience a smaller gain, bitcoin is still a good investment.

[giveBTCpls]

Investment is never fair. Two people can buy the same investment at the same time and one could loose and the other could profit. It takes knowledge, instincts and strategy to profit.

I have miss the boat too. I think we will never see a 1000 fold rise in bitcoin prices again, but most don't give up and complaint about not being a early adopter. We may experience a smaller gain, bitcoin is still a good investment.

And most importantly it takes luck.

[haploid23]

Bitcoin WAS the one in a lifetime get-rich-quick opportunity. I readed about it back in about 2009, I saw it linked to criminal activity so forgot about it. I saw it again years later when the bubble exploded, too fucking late johnny boy. Fuck my luck. It's specially frustrating since I readed about it in fucking 2009. Thanks to it im suicidal since that day. I could have retired my entire fucking family and myself, but no! of course, I had to have bad fucking luck. Now im stuck in this shit hole for life, slaving away for minimum wage and that's if I ever find a job. God fucking sakes. Bitcoin solves shit nothing for the 99.99% of people. What changed pre-post Bitcoin for 99.99% of people? That's right, bout fucking nothing. If I had to point a change, in any case it made me suicidal as fuck. Whenever I talk to someone about Bitcoin, they just don't see the appeal, they think it's too late to invest, to make any life-changing money, at least not without having a shit ton of money required to buy a good amount of BTC by now. Exactly, BTC only changed lives for these that:

1) Were lucky as fuck enough to invest/mine in the early days.
2) Already had a decent amount of money

You've been suicidal since 2009 because you didn't get in early? Are you suicidal because you didn't win the lottery either? My goodness, stop being overly dramatic about it. You read about it in 2009, you had ever opportunity to get in, but you made a conscious decision to not get any. How is that something to bitch about? You did not support it back then, and did absolutely nothing to help the technology grow. What makes you think you deserve any of the high profits of early adopters? It's always funny to see people use their Hindsight Crystal Ball for investing.

If you want a chance to get lucky like early adopters of btc, there are hundreds of altcoins you can gamble with. Go buy some for dirt cheap right now and hold for several years. You too, can become a millionaire.

[seriouscoin]

Bitcoin WAS the one in a lifetime get-rich-quick opportunity. I readed about it back in about 2009, I saw it linked to criminal activity so forgot about it. I saw it again years later when the bubble exploded, too fucking late johnny boy. Fuck my luck. It's specially frustrating since I readed about it in fucking 2009. Thanks to it im suicidal since that day. I could have retired my entire fucking family and myself, but no! of course, I had to have bad fucking luck. Now im stuck in this shit hole for life, slaving away for minimum wage and that's if I ever find a job. God fucking sakes. Bitcoin solves shit nothing for the 99.99% of people. What changed pre-post Bitcoin for 99.99% of people? That's right, bout fucking nothing. If I had to point a change, in any case it made me suicidal as fuck. Whenever I talk to someone about Bitcoin, they just don't see the appeal, they think it's too late to invest, to make any life-changing money, at least not without having a shit ton of money required to buy a good amount of BTC by now. Exactly, BTC only changed lives for these that:

1) Were lucky as fuck enough to invest/mine in the early days.
2) Already had a decent amount of money

You've been suicidal since 2009 because you didn't get in early? Are you suicidal because you didn't win the lottery either? My goodness, stop being overly dramatic about it. You read about it in 2009, you had ever opportunity to get in, but you made a conscious decision to not get any. How is that something to bitch about? You did not support it back then, and did absolutely nothing to help the technology grow. What makes you think you deserve any of the high profits of early adopters? It's always funny to see people use their Hindsight Crystal Ball for investing.

If you want a chance to get lucky like early adopters of btc, there are hundreds of altcoins you can gamble with. Go buy some for dirt cheap right now and hold for several years. You too, can become a millionaire.

Actually thats all he did since Nov 2013 (joined date). He came in here hoping to have some "luck" with alt-coins. I guess that failed miserably... His idea of "financial freedom" is retiring and never need to "work", that he should be rich. So hes been complaining that btc does not give him that. He never see btc as "money" just a get-rich-quick scheme. A perfect example i would say.

I still dont think hes worth living tho. This planet is already too crowded with idiots.

[Anders]

There are (at least) two different types technology knowledge involved in Bitcoin a) how it works under the hood, and b) how it works for the users.

Hardly anybody knows how ordinary fractional reserve money is created, and the same for Bitcoin.

How to USE Bitcoin for say shopping online is another matter. That could be made much easier than how Bitcoin functions today. Bitcoin is a bit like a Linux text prompt and ordinary money is like an iPhone. Bitcoin can become a lot more user friendly. It should be at least as easy and safe to use Bitcoin as it is to use an online bank for example.

The need for people to have to store, hide, protect and backup their private Bitcoin addresses sucks imo. That's one of the weaknesses of Bitcoin. In that sense Bitcoin is like old-fashion hide-under-the-mattress cash. Not good.

[jbrnt]

Bitcoin traders are sometimes accused of unfairly profiting from an opaque asset beyond the understanding of ordinary people.
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/currency/2014/07/bidding-on-bitcoin.html

I agree. Bitcoin is difficult to use. It has a very steep learning curve, but at least it is accessible to anyone who wishes to participate. There are so many other types of investments which are not accessible to us ordinary people even if we understand them.

[xDan]

A good response is that plenty of tech people who should have been able to understand it, instead ignored it, too.

Also - that it's not about investing. Why push the "invest" angle? It's cool futuristic internet monies. Digital cash, star wars "credits". That's the angle that should be pushed.

[Anders]

The need for people to have to store, hide, protect and backup their private Bitcoin addresses sucks imo. That's one of the weaknesses of Bitcoin.

You have it backwards. The ability to be the sole individual responsible for securing and spending my money is one of the greatest strengths of Bitcoin! No middlemen or authorities required.

Yes, the trustless innovation of Bitcoin is revolutionary. It blows the socks off ordinary money. I forgot to mention that.

What I meant is that even the Bitcoin wallet should be trustless and automatically secure. Could be tricky to solve technically though. As it is with Bitcoin today, either people have to manage all that safety and security by themselves or have to trust some middleman. Both options suck.

[skottiejay]

. It's unfair to people NOW because the only possible way to get any is from signature campaigns and such.

Bitcoin is a form of money.

Are you saying it's unfair that people have to actually earn their money by providing some kind of value?
Or, are you saying early adopters shouldn't have been rewarded for their risk in putting their time and energy into an unproven technology and helping Bitcoin get to where it is now?

What are you saying?

Sure we all wish we were adopters in 2009.  Hindsight is always 20x20.
But to say it's "unfair" makes you look like a whiner or a freeloader.

Who said I was whining? It absolutely should be easier for people to adopt to bitcoin right now. Just because a bunch of stores or shops are accepting it now doesn't mean it's "gaining ground".

As for Econ 101 no thanks already took the class and aced it.

Man haters gonna hate today

[jonald_fyookball]

. It's unfair to people NOW because the only possible way to get any is from signature campaigns and such.

Bitcoin is a form of money.

Are you saying it's unfair that people have to actually earn their money by providing some kind of value?
Or, are you saying early adopters shouldn't have been rewarded for their risk in putting their time and energy into an unproven technology and helping Bitcoin get to where it is now?

What are you saying?

Sure we all wish we were adopters in 2009.  Hindsight is always 20x20.
But to say it's "unfair" makes you look like a whiner or a freeloader.

More than unfair what's being discussed is it was just pure fucking luck. Most people that got rich forgot about their wallets and got the coins for mundane shit, such as buying drugs in SilkRoad or mining some for shits and giggles, not because they knew the price would explode.

1. You heard about Bitcoin in 2009 and I didn't hear about it till 2013.
So who's more lucky?   If you stop lamenting the past for 2 seconds,
you might see what an amazing investment Bitcoin still is. 

2.  No one KNEW the price would explode.  Not Satoshi, not
Gavin, not no one.