Bitcoin is unfair to the non tech-savvy

[Hyena]

Bitcoin traders are sometimes accused of unfairly profiting from an opaque asset beyond the understanding of ordinary people.
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/currency/2014/07/bidding-on-bitcoin.html

Yesterday I met a couple of my old classmates on the street. They asked about Bitcoin and started to whine that most people don't understand the mathematical fundamentals behind Bitcoin and therefore had no realistic chance to invest when it was cheap. Of course, I encouraged them to invest now (better late than never) but seems that people generally rather enjoy wallowing in their own self-pity than take steps to adapt and overcome.

Even in this forum I have seen demeaning opinions about people who bought in when Bitcoin was trading single digits --- "they are not real investors and their earnings are equivalent to winning with a lottery ticket".

I can see that these issues can raise some negative emotions and Bitcoin has even not risen to 6666$ yet . What's the worst case scenario to follow? Bitcoin Jesus getting beaten up by angry conventional Warren Buffer apprentices?

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[Dalmar]

I don't get people who complain about having missed the boat on bitcoin. There are many penny stocks or sometimes even regular stocks that go up a lot more than bitcoin. So what? You can still trade it and profit from it.

[Hyena]

I don't get people who complain about having missed the boat on bitcoin. There are many penny stocks or sometimes even regular stocks that go up a lot more than bitcoin. So what? You can still trade it and profit from it.

That's a good argument, in case you're right.

[kerafym]

I don't get people who complain about having missed the boat on bitcoin. There are many penny stocks or sometimes even regular stocks that go up a lot more than bitcoin. So what? You can still trade it and profit from it.

I have never seen a penny stock or regular stock grow the equivalent of 12 million% in 4 years like bitcoin. Correct me if I am wrong.

Bitcoin is a black swan. Normally, black swan only occur once in few millions year.

[Dalmar]

I don't get people who complain about having missed the boat on bitcoin. There are many penny stocks or sometimes even regular stocks that go up a lot more than bitcoin. So what? You can still trade it and profit from it.

I have never seen a penny stock or regular stock grow the equivalent of 12 million% in 4 years like bitcoin. Correct me if I am wrong.

The only difference is that penny stocks get dumped, but bitcoin continues to get pumped. However, every year there are a good number of penny stocks that outperform bitcoin, not suggesting it's wise to buy those relative to bitcoin - but there are many.

[spiderbrain]

The internet is too techy for most pople to understand, it will never get big.

10 years later: OMG, did you see my photo of my pet dog?

People use internet banking when they don't understand it, and more people will use bitcoin at the software gets more user friendly and the ideas bed down in people's minds. It's early days yet.

[Klubknuckle]

Somehow agree, securing the wallet itself can be difficulty for some people.

[bananaControl]

Bitcoin traders are sometimes accused of unfairly profiting from an opaque asset beyond the understanding of ordinary people.
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/currency/2014/07/bidding-on-bitcoin.html

Yesterday I met a couple of my old classmates on the street. They asked about Bitcoin and started to whine that most people don't understand the mathematical fundamentals behind Bitcoin and therefore had no realistic chance to invest when it was cheap.  Of course, I encouraged them to invest now (better late than never) but seems that people generally rather enjoy wallowing in their own self-pity than take steps to adapt and overcome.

This is such a load of bull. All the information needed is right there in front of their noses for free on the internet. All it takes is a little will and some effort, but that is probably the heart of their problem... I'd guess that most people wouldn't have invested a single dollar even if they knew about bitcoin in 2009, it would have been a too risky an investment for them.

In 2010 I thought about buying a few thousand bitcoins but ended up not doing it, simply because I hadn't done my homework. It is my own fault completely. And those who did buy back then deserve every penny they have made on their investment, they are the reason why bitcoin didn't just die as the crazy internet geekery it was.

Those who bitch now, will bitch at every bubble all the way to the moon. There is nothing we can do to save them from their laziness and self pity. They only have themselves to blame.

[enhu]

I must admit. the word bitcoin is never interesting to me back then the fact that they call it "coin" so the value must just be pennies. Thus reason the might not have to interest to google it

[SomeoneInNeed]

I don't think that BTC is unfair towards the non tech--savvy. The non tech savvy can just understand the economic concept and the concept of how BTC is a currency. Rather than understanding the Blockchain and the Algorithms behind it.

[mailmansDOGE]

Bitcoin is not unfair to anyone. It's a piece of software by it's own. It won't discriminate against you and me.

[maker88]

its not unfair, they're just stupid. and stupid people like to complain about things being rigged or unfair to justify their mistakes. I'm not tech savvy any more than any other 30 year old. i just know a good thing when i see it.

[peeveepee]

Non tech-savvy needs to learn.

None of us is born with knowledge.

[herzmeister]

Internet is unfair to the non tech-savvy (nt)

[rocks]

I don't think that BTC is unfair towards the non tech--savvy. The non tech savvy can just understand the economic concept and the concept of how BTC is a currency. Rather than understanding the Blockchain and the Algorithms behind it.

Exactly, IMHO those who see the long term potential of bitcoin generally do so more due to understanding of economics and how governments manipulate money than due to mathematical savvy.

People who see and question the government intervention and corruption tend to latch on to bitcoin in my experience. Those who don't will one day just complain when btc reaches the moon.

[Junko]

Bitcoin doesn't give a shit.

[Biodom]

I don't get people who complain about having missed the boat on bitcoin. There are many penny stocks or sometimes even regular stocks that go up a lot more than bitcoin. So what? You can still trade it and profit from it.

I have never seen a penny stock or regular stock grow the equivalent of 12 million% in 4 years like bitcoin. Correct me if I am wrong.

penny stock bursts are much shorter. I give you the example of CYNK-it was 10c on June 10 and $20 a couple of days ago-20000% in a month.
Of course, SEC shut it down temporarily on Fri (and possibly rightly so if it was just a scheme)
To the original OP: tell your classmates to get in at the "45 degree angle" to quote one Gordon Gekko before all those ETFs (COIN), hedge funds (GABI) and trusts (BIT) deploy.

[Biodom]

Somehow agree, securing the wallet itself can be difficulty for some people.

not applicable if they get a coinbase account.

[ShakyhandsBTCer]

I don't think that BTC is unfair towards the non tech--savvy. The non tech savvy can just understand the economic concept and the concept of how BTC is a currency. Rather than understanding the Blockchain and the Algorithms behind it.

Exactly, IMHO those who see the long term potential of bitcoin generally do so more due to understanding of economics and how governments manipulate money than due to mathematical savvy.

People who see and question the government intervention and corruption tend to latch on to bitcoin in my experience. Those who don't will one day just complain when btc reaches the moon.

People who are non tech savvy are much more susceptible to attacks that are related to stealing of their bitcoin, as they would likely be unable to properly secure their coin.

[Ibian]

I have no problem with idiots and emotionally unstable individuals not profiting off the investment of a lifetime.

[BitchicksHusband]

I think there's some truth to this.  I recently convinced my aunt to buy bitcoin.  Just setting up a Coinbase account on her phone (because her computer is full of viruses) took hours.  And further hours of me on the phone with her.  Finally I just bought the coins for her and I'm trying to get her Coinbase account secure enough to send the coins to her.  It is WAY too difficult for somebody in their 70s.

[Raystonn]

Most people don't pay attention to security of banking, because all transactions are revocable with USD.  If their funds are stolen, they complain to the bank and they get it back.  Options moving forward are 1) Make BTC transactions revocable, 2) Make wallets unhackable, 3) Let the common person deal with a revocable asset backed by Bitcoin rather than Bitcoin itself, 4) Educate the consumer on security best practices.

I don't think #1 or #2 are feasible.  I don't think #4 is realistic if we want mass adoption.

[Xch4ng3]

You've got two people in the BTC world. The ones who are just pissed because they weren't an early adopter and the ones who are scared to dip their toes into Bitcoin.

You can't fix the first one but you can make BTC easier to work with by educating people instead of laughing them away. Having a BTC wallet is the same as a physical wallet (obviously with the exception of it being digital), you need to apply your own security practices that you would in real life. I see a lot of people complain about loosing their funds and eventually you find out it was because of their own error, IE uploading an unencrypted wallet file to Dropbox and then having their Dropbox account compromised.

[Raystonn]

Most of this world doesn't even know what "encrypted wallet" or "dropbox" is.  Most of this world sees no problem surfing to random porn sites on the same computer where they install all their Bitcoin apps.  Most of this world ignores error messages from their computer, such as "your antivirus has expired".

Security for a real wallet involves keeping it out of others' hands.  Security for a digital wallet is completely different.

[Hyena]

You've got two people in the BTC world. The ones who are just pissed because they weren't an early adopter and the ones who are scared to dip their toes into Bitcoin.

You can't fix the first one but you can make BTC easier to work with by educating people instead of laughing them away. Having a BTC wallet is the same as a physical wallet (obviously with the exception of it being digital), you need to apply your own security practices that you would in real life. I see a lot of people complain about loosing their funds and eventually you find out it was because of their own error, IE uploading an unencrypted wallet file to Dropbox and then having their Dropbox account compromised.

Or making a photo of your paper wallet and uploading it to the internet for everyone to see

[ShakyhandsBTCer]

You've got two people in the BTC world. The ones who are just pissed because they weren't an early adopter and the ones who are scared to dip their toes into Bitcoin.

You can't fix the first one but you can make BTC easier to work with by educating people instead of laughing them away. Having a BTC wallet is the same as a physical wallet (obviously with the exception of it being digital), you need to apply your own security practices that you would in real life. I see a lot of people complain about loosing their funds and eventually you find out it was because of their own error, IE uploading an unencrypted wallet file to Dropbox and then having their Dropbox account compromised.

Or making a photo of your paper wallet and uploading it to the internet for everyone to see

These are all examples of things that non tech-savvy people would likely do

[devphp]

Bitcoin traders are sometimes accused of unfairly profiting from an opaque asset beyond the understanding of ordinary people.
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/currency/2014/07/bidding-on-bitcoin.html

Yesterday I met a couple of my old classmates on the street. They asked about Bitcoin and started to whine that most people don't understand the mathematical fundamentals behind Bitcoin and therefore had no realistic chance to invest when it was cheap. Of course, I encouraged them to invest now (better late than never) but seems that people generally rather enjoy wallowing in their own self-pity than take steps to adapt and overcome.

Even in this forum I have seen demeaning opinions about people who bought in when Bitcoin was trading single digits --- "they are not real investors and their earnings are equivalent to winning with a lottery ticket".

I can see that these issues can raise some negative emotions and Bitcoin has even not risen to 6666$ yet . What's the worst case scenario to follow? Bitcoin Jesus getting beaten up by angry conventional Warren Buffer apprentices?

I hope you did tell your classmates there are a few promising altcoins which are still cheap and which can dethrone Bitcoin. I guess you didn't. They will blame you later that you didn't, be sure of that.

[cbeast]

I wanted to be in the NBA. It's not fair that I can't play BBall.

[Hyena]

Bitcoin traders are sometimes accused of unfairly profiting from an opaque asset beyond the understanding of ordinary people.
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/currency/2014/07/bidding-on-bitcoin.html

Yesterday I met a couple of my old classmates on the street. They asked about Bitcoin and started to whine that most people don't understand the mathematical fundamentals behind Bitcoin and therefore had no realistic chance to invest when it was cheap. Of course, I encouraged them to invest now (better late than never) but seems that people generally rather enjoy wallowing in their own self-pity than take steps to adapt and overcome.

Even in this forum I have seen demeaning opinions about people who bought in when Bitcoin was trading single digits --- "they are not real investors and their earnings are equivalent to winning with a lottery ticket".

I can see that these issues can raise some negative emotions and Bitcoin has even not risen to 6666$ yet . What's the worst case scenario to follow? Bitcoin Jesus getting beaten up by angry conventional Warren Buffer apprentices?

I hope you did tell your classmates there are a few promising altcoins which are still cheap and which can dethrone Bitcoin. I guess you didn't. They will blame you later that you didn't, be sure of that.

Not to those particular individuals but I have promoted Peercoins to several other old friends and course mates in the past.

[Benjig]

Most people don't pay attention to security of banking, because all transactions are revocable with USD.  If their funds are stolen, they complain to the bank and they get it back.  Options moving forward are 1) Make BTC transactions revocable, 2) Make wallets unhackable, 3) Let the common person deal with a revocable asset backed by Bitcoin rather than Bitcoin itself, 4) Educate the consumer on security best practices.

I don't think #1 or #2 are feasible.  I don't think #4 is realistic if we want mass adoption.

The only viable option is dealing with a revocable asset backet by bitcoin because making bitcoin revocable is stupid, thats one of the good things about it, and wallets are unhackeable , what hackers hack are the passwords or the computer itself not the wallet, its like any credit card numbers stolen by a keylogger.

[Hyena]

Most people don't pay attention to security of banking, because all transactions are revocable with USD.  If their funds are stolen, they complain to the bank and they get it back.  Options moving forward are 1) Make BTC transactions revocable, 2) Make wallets unhackable, 3) Let the common person deal with a revocable asset backed by Bitcoin rather than Bitcoin itself, 4) Educate the consumer on security best practices.

I don't think #1 or #2 are feasible.  I don't think #4 is realistic if we want mass adoption.

The only viable option is dealing with a revocable asset backet by bitcoin because making bitcoin revocable is stupid, thats one of the good things about it, and wallets are unhackeable , what hackers hack are the passwords or the computer itself not the wallet, its like any credit card numbers stolen by a keylogger.

Good point because it would be easy to prove that you really have the bitcoins you claim to have while with gold backed currencies you must physically visit the vaults in order to verify the existence of the gold.

[Xch4ng3]

Most of this world doesn't even know what "encrypted wallet" or "dropbox" is.  Most of this world sees no problem surfing to random porn sites on the same computer where they install all their Bitcoin apps.  Most of this world ignores error messages from their computer, such as "your antivirus has expired".

Security for a real wallet involves keeping it out of others' hands.  Security for a digital wallet is completely different.

IMHO good security measures should also account for the worst case scenario. When it comes to computer security I think it's much safer to assume when you will be compromised and not if. Obviously in the perfect world everyone would be able to have an isolated machine to make BTC transactions from but we all know that's not going to happen. Next best thing to do is to ensure in the worst case scenario you don't suffer much.

Going to be visiting random porn sites?

Fine your choice, at least use a secure browser, ensure your computer protection is up to date and that you don't do anything like accepting random downloads that say freeporn.exe or run untrusted plugins and and ensure your wallets are backed up elsewhere and encrypted.

Either way I still believe the majority of people are too scared to use Bitcoin because they don't understand it, much like the older generation when it comes to anything technical. I'm sure everyone has at least one family member who refuses to do online banking or something similar because they're concerned about security. More time spent educating and increasing adoption of Bitcoin would do everyone some good.

[Brassguy]

Steel is unfair... Our bronze weapons can't stand up to their weapons...
Gunpowder is unfair... It costs a lot to train my knights and any peasant can shoot them with 10 minutes of training...
The loom is unfair... It can make fabric faster than me.... And I don't have enough money to buy one
The oil industry is unfair... I'd have to go out in the hot sun and dig a well...

I'll just stop now...and say...

Life isn't fair... There is always someone better, faster, stronger, smarter, more capitalized, etc, etc than you... Work hard and be creative... And don't be afraid to fail, it's the only time you actually learn anything.

Or you can just tell your friends to grow up

[wachtwoord]

So you need to understand something complex to be able to make a good investment and make money? Sounds like the most fair thing in the world to me. 

[Bitobsessed]

I don't get people who complain about having missed the boat on bitcoin. There are many penny stocks or sometimes even regular stocks that go up a lot more than bitcoin. So what? You can still trade it and profit from it.

So you need to understand something complex to be able to make a good investment and make money? Sounds like the most fair thing in the world to me. 

It is also a lot easier to buy and trade cryptocurrencies than it is a penny stock on the NYSE, NASDAQ, etc.

[Harley997]

Most of this world doesn't even know what "encrypted wallet" or "dropbox" is.  Most of this world sees no problem surfing to random porn sites on the same computer where they install all their Bitcoin apps.  Most of this world ignores error messages from their computer, such as "your antivirus has expired".

Security for a real wallet involves keeping it out of others' hands.  Security for a digital wallet is completely different.

This is exactly the issue. When people do these kinds of things they will ultimately lose their bitcoin. When this happens often enough, it will cause bitcoin to get a worse rep then it has now.

[LiteCoinGuy]

The internet is too techy for most pople to understand, it will never get big.

10 years later: OMG, did you see my photo of my pet dog?

People use internet banking when they don't understand it, and more people will use bitcoin at the software gets more user friendly and the ideas bed down in people's minds. It's early days yet.

i agree here. and whats wrong when the people who are more clever and are more willing to learn things get a better profit than others? nothing.
the average joe will get some benefits from BTC too in the future, even when he will not notice that.

[LiteCoinGuy]

So you need to understand something complex to be able to make a good investment and make money? Sounds like the most fair thing in the world to me. 

  !

[dothebeats]

I myself am not a tech-savvy. I understand very little things when it comes to technicalities and some stuff that involves different computer terms. But heck, the purpose of bitcoin is to be used as a currency, not as an educational piece to be studied. You do not require to have a massive knowledge on how cryptography and other computer stuff to use bitcoin. You simply need to know its purpose, how to use it, how to keep your wallet safe, and why would people use it. Do most of the people using fiat study how fiat is obtained? The answer is no. As long as people know how to use it and why to use it, they would still believe in using it no matter what technicalities lie behind it.

[Catmoonglow]

"Bitcoin is hardly in a position to replace national currencies."

Famous last words...

[Lethn]

I scored an F in my GSCE maths, if I can understand it and use it, so can they, I suppose if you want to understand the whole code behind it that would be impossible for a normal person including but honestly I think they're exaggerating if they consider the idea of difficulty and mining blocks to be hard to understand. I know the basic theory behind Bitcoin and I know it's open source, that's all I needed in order to make the decision to trust it, some people just clearly either need to do their research or grow a brain.

Basically, this article seems to be a different spin on the same bullshit we've heard since Bitcoin's inception, they'll be saying this crap when it hits $1000 again.

[Light]

Yesterday I met a couple of my old classmates on the street. They asked about Bitcoin and started to whine that most people don't understand the mathematical fundamentals behind Bitcoin and therefore had no realistic chance to invest when it was cheap. Of course, I encouraged them to invest now (better late than never) but seems that people generally rather enjoy wallowing in their own self-pity than take steps to adapt and overcome.

That's just really garbage whinging talk. You don't need to bloody well understand the mathematical principle behind Bitcoin - a simple (but really rather complicated) overview is enough. It's probably a bit arrogant of me to say so, but I believe I have a reasonably good grasp of the core ideas behind Bitcoin without having to completely understand the mathematics behind trap-door cryptographic functions and elliptic curve cryptography. Personally, I doubt anyone truly believed we'd ever get this far with Bitcoin, some hoped and dreamed and speculated (more than others) but no one truly expected it.

[acs267]

Really? Because I heard this currency... Wow, what's it's name? 'USD' is pretty unfair to anyone below the Middle Class in the United States. Wow. So unfair, right?

That's what I'm thinking.

[2good2betrue]

"Bitcoin traders are sometimes accused of unfairly profiting from an opaque asset beyond the understanding of ordinary people."
This is unfair why exactly? I don't understand the ins and outs of 99% of industries, is it unfair that some people will use their specialized knowledge to profit from these industries?

[eid]

I guess bitcoin is complicated when you first discover it. It takes some effort before you begin to understand how everything works and fits together.. But that's ok. If people are put off by this and walk away, they have no one to blame but themselves.

Sadly, realising this would also take more effort than some are willing to expend.

[2good2betrue]

Dear New Yorker, I don't know shit about writing articles or editing a magazine, every dollar you make is "unfair".

[Anders]

How many people understand the fractional reserve banking scam for how ordinary money is created? Yet, they still use money.

[jubalix]

people are trained by omission in education, by mass media and gov, to not think about what fiat is, only that they need it.

Movies about $$$
Crime about $$$
success measured in $$$$
Price of things in $$$$

tax in $$$$
wages etc etc

you can go no ad infinetum.

As I have said several times, you could talk to people and anyone in this forum now back in 2005 about FIAT currency and their eyes just glaze over.

I know I did it. I made a whole presentation on FIAT/FRB/CRR for my Law of banking elective, i tried to explain to people  the issues and scam of FIAT and how their needed to be competition.

Eyes glaze over.

Now BTC has put it squerly on the table and FIAT is unmasked....but only for the minority.

The intersection of what "money" is plus the tech, is major ovelaod for a lot of people.

There needs to be a lot more uptake which will take years from now. essentially you are saying, hey you know you money, well your money is no good! Wait what? yeah that paper stuff or digits in your account/shares valued in $$$$. The $$$ bit is all basically near worthless soon.


A killer app / hardware has to come along that is easy to use.

We are accordingly still in quite the early stage of BTC @tm

[Soros Shorts]

The intersection of what "money" is plus the tech, is major ovelaod for a lot of people.

Hey, once in a while the advantage does NOT go to smooth talking wheelers and dealers who understand finance. That's fair to me.

[AliceWonder]

Here's the problem.

Janice hears about bitcoin and gets all excited.

She goes and buys herself a few coins.

Her PC automatically backs up to the cloud, and because she doesn't understand what actually is happening, she doesn't realize that means the private keys that control those bitcoins are backed up too.

Her coins then vanish.

You think Janice will ever want to use Bitcoin again?

Bitcoin must be made safe for the non-tech savvy, and right now for non tech savvy that means encrypted hardware wallet. But they don't have a clue to even know they need one or where to get one.

It is a serious problem, and if you want your BTC to continue to grow in value, it is a problem that has to be solved because users like Janice adopting bitcoin and being happy with it are necessary for 1BTC to hit 10,000 USD in the next ten years. Very possible if we fix this issue.

[Bit_Happy]

I don't get people who complain about having missed the boat on bitcoin. There are many penny stocks or sometimes even regular stocks that go up a lot more than bitcoin...

Any chance you want to document that with some examples?
One third of a penny (~$0.003) all the way to $1200+ !
You claim to know of "many" past cases that go up "a lot more"? Please show us some....

[commandrix]

Tell them to try earning some Bitcoin in their spare time. It's not hard to do if they can simply make your talents known right here on this forum or otherwise let word get around that they'll work for Bitcoin (LOL). In fact, I think I'll jump on a relative of mine who's a teacher and tell her that it might not be very hard to provide tutoring over Skype for anyone with Bitcoin who wants to improve their math skills over the summer.

[Nerazzura]

Bitcoin is not unfair to anyone. It's a piece of software by it's own. It won't discriminate against you and me.

exactly once, bitcoin is not money or objects that can be controlled by one person alone. he has his own way to evolve or backwards, so no one can control it

[Bit_Happy]

Bitcoin is not unfair to anyone. It's a piece of software by it's own. It won't discriminate against you and me.

The early mining resulted in a massive amount of coins for "Satoshi".
You can attempt to call it "fair", but you cannot deny a HUGE amount of early coins went to one single person (or small group)

[Lauda]

Such people are only non tech-savy because of their ignorance. Stop doing useless things in life and learn, it's not even complicated.

[skottiejay]

I wouldn't say it's unfair to the non tech savy, but 3 or so years ago when I first had even heard about it the word "Bitcoin" in itself was just a joke that I saw on twitter constantly. It's unfair to people NOW because the only possible way to get any is from signature campaigns and such.

Such people are only non tech-savy because of their ignorance. Stop doing useless things in life and learn, it's not even complicated.

But not everyone always pays attention to techy things, if people are going to introduce others into the bitcoin world they need a basis to start from. Not a lot of people in 2011 probably even knew what it was or how to get it. Of course jumping on the bandwagon now is kind of dumb because of how high priced they are and how difficult mining or getting any is.

I scored an F in my GSCE maths, if I can understand it and use it, so can they, I suppose if you want to understand the whole code behind it that would be impossible for a normal person including but honestly I think they're exaggerating if they consider the idea of difficulty and mining blocks to be hard to understand. I know the basic theory behind Bitcoin and I know it's open source, that's all I needed in order to make the decision to trust it, some people just clearly either need to do their research or grow a brain.

Basically, this article seems to be a different spin on the same bullshit we've heard since Bitcoin's inception, they'll be saying this crap when it hits $1000 again.

Not everyone is the same as you.

I guess bitcoin is complicated when you first discover it. It takes some effort before you begin to understand how everything works and fits together.. But that's ok. If people are put off by this and walk away, they have no one to blame but themselves.

Sadly, realising this would also take more effort than some are willing to expend.

It isn't so much that it's complicated, I mean it's pretty straight forward on how to set up a wallet, and how to get your first bitcoin if you are talking back in 2011 and earlier. Faucets etc, it's just that a lot of people are thinking to themselves now "Well now how the hell am I going to get some?" As I said earlier, when I first found out about bitcoin people didn't take it seriously, hell I don't take it seriously otherwise I probably would have had quite a few by now.

I don't think it's the persons fault if they walk away, I think the community could do a bit more in reaching out to new adopters to bitcoin and help them, but that's imho.

[intron]

Bitcoin traders are sometimes accused of unfairly profiting from an opaque asset beyond the understanding of ordinary people.
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/currency/2014/07/bidding-on-bitcoin.html

Yesterday I met a couple of my old classmates on the street. They asked about Bitcoin and started to whine that most people don't understand the mathematical fundamentals behind Bitcoin and therefore had no realistic chance to invest when it was cheap. Of course, I encouraged them to invest now (better late than never) but seems that people generally rather enjoy wallowing in their own self-pity than take steps to adapt and overcome.

Even in this forum I have seen demeaning opinions about people who bought in when Bitcoin was trading single digits --- "they are not real investors and their earnings are equivalent to winning with a lottery ticket".

I can see that these issues can raise some negative emotions and Bitcoin has even not risen to 6666$ yet . What's the worst case scenario to follow? Bitcoin Jesus getting beaten up by angry conventional Warren Buffer apprentices?

If everything was fair, it would be 4 Kelvin
everywhere in the universe...

[seriouscoin]

But not everyone always pays attention to techy things, if people are going to introduce others into the bitcoin world they need a basis to start from. Not a lot of people in 2011 probably even knew what it was or how to get it. Of course jumping on the bandwagon now is kind of dumb because of how high priced they are and how difficult mining or getting any is.

Why even open your mouth to prove the world that you're dumb?

Its the same thing ppl said in 2011: $11 for a btc? are you dumb? it was only $.01 in 2010. Now i cant even buy 1000btc OMG.....


Also if mining is still easy, would the price still be at current level? Are you that stupid to not understanding basic economy?

[seriouscoin]

OP, tell your friend to grow the fck up. All the education they got have failed them miserably.

They should cry about APPL share also.

[giveBTCpls]

I don't get people who complain about having missed the boat on bitcoin. There are many penny stocks or sometimes even regular stocks that go up a lot more than bitcoin. So what? You can still trade it and profit from it.

I have never seen a penny stock or regular stock grow the equivalent of 12 million% in 4 years like bitcoin. Correct me if I am wrong.

This. Bitcoin WAS the one in a lifetime get-rich-quick opportunity. I readed about it back in about 2009, I saw it linked to criminal activity so forgot about it. I saw it again years later when the bubble exploded, too fucking late johnny boy. Fuck my luck. It's specially frustrating since I readed about it in fucking 2009. Thanks to it im suicidal since that day. I could have retired my entire fucking family and myself, but no! of course, I had to have bad fucking luck. Now im stuck in this shit hole for life, slaving away for minimum wage and that's if I ever find a job. God fucking sakes. Bitcoin solves shit nothing for the 99.99% of people. What changed pre-post Bitcoin for 99.99% of people? That's right, bout fucking nothing. If I had to point a change, in any case it made me suicidal as fuck. Whenever I talk to someone about Bitcoin, they just don't see the appeal, they think it's too late to invest, to make any life-changing money, at least not without having a shit ton of money required to buy a good amount of BTC by now. Exactly, BTC only changed lives for these that:

1) Were lucky as fuck enough to invest/mine in the early days.
2) Already had a decent amount of money

For the rest it's nothing. The social pyramid is and will be the fucking same, but now the few that had luck to be on the right moment at the right time made a killing and own a big part of the supply, which will continue to stack due being able to buy ASICS, re-invest, and so on. The poor attracts more poor, the money attracts more money. Basic fact. It's specially ironic how a lot of these broke NEET guys that used to complain about how fucked up wealth distribution is, that had the luck to mine shit tons effortlessly or buy a couple thousand BTC to buy some weed in SilkRoad or whatever, found out two years later they are multimillonaires, and then whenever they get approached by a guy on their former position complaining about how fucked up wealth distribution is, say "if you are poor you deserve it, get a job" and help you in your dead end position with shit nothing when 1 BTC means shit nothing to them, while it would mean a world to a person like me because it would mean being able to at least, have a somewhat materializable idea of a business or investment and try to start from a fair position. No matter what greed will always be there, fiat, Bitcoin or who the fuck knows what. The human race is pathetic and ready for extinction.

[commandrix]

Bitcoin traders are sometimes accused of unfairly profiting from an opaque asset beyond the understanding of ordinary people.
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/currency/2014/07/bidding-on-bitcoin.html

Yesterday I met a couple of my old classmates on the street. They asked about Bitcoin and started to whine that most people don't understand the mathematical fundamentals behind Bitcoin and therefore had no realistic chance to invest when it was cheap. Of course, I encouraged them to invest now (better late than never) but seems that people generally rather enjoy wallowing in their own self-pity than take steps to adapt and overcome.

Even in this forum I have seen demeaning opinions about people who bought in when Bitcoin was trading single digits --- "they are not real investors and their earnings are equivalent to winning with a lottery ticket".

I can see that these issues can raise some negative emotions and Bitcoin has even not risen to 6666$ yet . What's the worst case scenario to follow? Bitcoin Jesus getting beaten up by angry conventional Warren Buffer apprentices?

If everything was fair, it would be 4 Kelvin
everywhere in the universe...

True enough -- I suppose a little hydrogen atom floating around somewhere would say that stars were unfair because their hydrogen atoms took the trouble to come together through gravity to the point where they could become helium through a nuclear reaction. Just since I got serious about using Bitcoin, I've watched it go from 400-some dollars (I forget exactly now) to over $600, so it's not like I'm complaining. I figure "fair" is what happens when you're not afraid to put in the effort to make a profit and don't let some lazy loser try to steal it from you.

[commandrix]

But not everyone always pays attention to techy things, if people are going to introduce others into the bitcoin world they need a basis to start from. Not a lot of people in 2011 probably even knew what it was or how to get it. Of course jumping on the bandwagon now is kind of dumb because of how high priced they are and how difficult mining or getting any is.

Why even open your mouth to prove the world that you're dumb?

Its the same thing ppl said in 2011: $11 for a btc? are you dumb? it was only $.01 in 2010. Now i cant even buy 1000btc OMG.....


Also if mining is still easy, would the price still be at current level? Are you that stupid to not understanding basic economy?

Would it help if I wrote a series of articles about Economics 101 as it applies to Bitcoin?

[seriouscoin]

I don't get people who complain about having missed the boat on bitcoin. There are many penny stocks or sometimes even regular stocks that go up a lot more than bitcoin. So what? You can still trade it and profit from it.

I have never seen a penny stock or regular stock grow the equivalent of 12 million% in 4 years like bitcoin. Correct me if I am wrong.

This. Bitcoin WAS the one in a lifetime get-rich-quick opportunity. I readed about it back in about 2009, I saw it linked to criminal activity so forgot about it. I saw it again years later when the bubble exploded, too fucking late johnny boy. Fuck my luck. It's specially frustrating since I readed about it in fucking 2009. Thanks to it im suicidal since that day. I could have retired my entire fucking family and myself, but no! of course, I had to have bad fucking luck. Now im stuck in this shit hole for life, slaving away for minimum wage and that's if I ever find a job. God fucking sakes. Bitcoin solves shit nothing for the 99.99% of people. What changed pre-post Bitcoin for 99.99% of people? That's right, bout fucking nothing. If I had to point a change, in any case it made me suicidal as fuck. Whenever I talk to someone about Bitcoin, they just don't see the appeal, they think it's too late to invest, to make any life-changing money, at least not without having a shit ton of money required to buy a good amount of BTC by now. Exactly, BTC only changed lives for these that:

1) Were lucky as fuck enough to invest/mine in the early days.
2) Already had a decent amount of money

For the rest it's nothing. The social pyramid is and will be the fucking same, but now the few that had luck to be on the right moment at the right time made a killing and own a big part of the supply, which will continue to stack due being able to buy ASICS, re-invest, and so on. The poor attracts more poor, the money attracts more money. Basic fact. It's specially ironic how a lot of these broke NEET guys that used to complain about how fucked up wealth distribution is, that had the luck to mine shit tons effortlessly or buy a couple thousand BTC to buy some weed in SilkRoad or whatever, found out two years later they are multimillonaires, and then whenever they get approached by a guy on their former position complaining about how fucked up wealth distribution is, say "if you are poor you deserve it, get a job" and help you in your dead end position with shit nothing when 1 BTC means shit nothing to them, while it would mean a world to a person like me because it would mean being able to at least, have a somewhat materializable idea of a business or investment and try to start from a fair position. No matter what greed will always be there, fiat, Bitcoin or who the fuck knows what. The human race is pathetic and ready for extinction.

Please kill yourself, dont waste any more oxygen of this world.

[seriouscoin]

But not everyone always pays attention to techy things, if people are going to introduce others into the bitcoin world they need a basis to start from. Not a lot of people in 2011 probably even knew what it was or how to get it. Of course jumping on the bandwagon now is kind of dumb because of how high priced they are and how difficult mining or getting any is.

Why even open your mouth to prove the world that you're dumb?

Its the same thing ppl said in 2011: $11 for a btc? are you dumb? it was only $.01 in 2010. Now i cant even buy 1000btc OMG.....


Also if mining is still easy, would the price still be at current level? Are you that stupid to not understanding basic economy?

Would it help if I wrote a series of articles about Economics 101 as it applies to Bitcoin?

Ask the idiots who think btc can be "printed" out of thin air that question.
 

[jonald_fyookball]

. It's unfair to people NOW because the only possible way to get any is from signature campaigns and such.

Bitcoin is a form of money.

Are you saying it's unfair that people have to actually earn their money by providing some kind of value?
Or, are you saying early adopters shouldn't have been rewarded for their risk in putting their time and energy into an unproven technology and helping Bitcoin get to where it is now?

What are you saying?

Sure we all wish we were adopters in 2009.  Hindsight is always 20x20.
But to say it's "unfair" makes you look like a whiner or a freeloader.

[seriouscoin]

. It's unfair to people NOW because the only possible way to get any is from signature campaigns and such.

Bitcoin is a form of money.

Are you saying it's unfair that people have to actually earn their money by providing some kind of value?
Or, are you saying early adopters shouldn't have been rewarded for their risk in putting their time and energy into an unproven technology and helping Bitcoin get to where it is now?

What are you saying?

Sure we all wish we were adopters in 2009.  Hindsight is always 20x20.
But to say it's "unfair" makes you look like a whiner or a freeloader.

Hes saying the ONLY way to get fiat money , say USD, is to be a homeless bum and beg for hand out.

[giveBTCpls]

I don't get people who complain about having missed the boat on bitcoin. There are many penny stocks or sometimes even regular stocks that go up a lot more than bitcoin. So what? You can still trade it and profit from it.

I have never seen a penny stock or regular stock grow the equivalent of 12 million% in 4 years like bitcoin. Correct me if I am wrong.

This. Bitcoin WAS the one in a lifetime get-rich-quick opportunity. I readed about it back in about 2009, I saw it linked to criminal activity so forgot about it. I saw it again years later when the bubble exploded, too fucking late johnny boy. Fuck my luck. It's specially frustrating since I readed about it in fucking 2009. Thanks to it im suicidal since that day. I could have retired my entire fucking family and myself, but no! of course, I had to have bad fucking luck. Now im stuck in this shit hole for life, slaving away for minimum wage and that's if I ever find a job. God fucking sakes. Bitcoin solves shit nothing for the 99.99% of people. What changed pre-post Bitcoin for 99.99% of people? That's right, bout fucking nothing. If I had to point a change, in any case it made me suicidal as fuck. Whenever I talk to someone about Bitcoin, they just don't see the appeal, they think it's too late to invest, to make any life-changing money, at least not without having a shit ton of money required to buy a good amount of BTC by now. Exactly, BTC only changed lives for these that:

1) Were lucky as fuck enough to invest/mine in the early days.
2) Already had a decent amount of money

For the rest it's nothing. The social pyramid is and will be the fucking same, but now the few that had luck to be on the right moment at the right time made a killing and own a big part of the supply, which will continue to stack due being able to buy ASICS, re-invest, and so on. The poor attracts more poor, the money attracts more money. Basic fact. It's specially ironic how a lot of these broke NEET guys that used to complain about how fucked up wealth distribution is, that had the luck to mine shit tons effortlessly or buy a couple thousand BTC to buy some weed in SilkRoad or whatever, found out two years later they are multimillonaires, and then whenever they get approached by a guy on their former position complaining about how fucked up wealth distribution is, say "if you are poor you deserve it, get a job" and help you in your dead end position with shit nothing when 1 BTC means shit nothing to them, while it would mean a world to a person like me because it would mean being able to at least, have a somewhat materializable idea of a business or investment and try to start from a fair position. No matter what greed will always be there, fiat, Bitcoin or who the fuck knows what. The human race is pathetic and ready for extinction.

Please kill yourself, dont waste any more oxygen of this world.

Typical reply from the braindead guy described in my post. Thanks for the info.

[giveBTCpls]

. It's unfair to people NOW because the only possible way to get any is from signature campaigns and such.

Bitcoin is a form of money.

Are you saying it's unfair that people have to actually earn their money by providing some kind of value?
Or, are you saying early adopters shouldn't have been rewarded for their risk in putting their time and energy into an unproven technology and helping Bitcoin get to where it is now?

What are you saying?

Sure we all wish we were adopters in 2009.  Hindsight is always 20x20.
But to say it's "unfair" makes you look like a whiner or a freeloader.

More than unfair what's being discussed is it was just pure fucking luck. Most people that got rich forgot about their wallets and got the coins for mundane shit, such as buying drugs in SilkRoad or mining some for shits and giggles, not because they knew the price would explode.

[Lauda]

Such people are only non tech-savy because of their ignorance. Stop doing useless things in life and learn, it's not even complicated.

But not everyone always pays attention to techy things, if people are going to introduce others into the bitcoin world they need a basis to start from. Not a lot of people in 2011 probably even knew what it was or how to get it. Of course jumping on the bandwagon now is kind of dumb because of how high priced they are and how difficult mining or getting any is.

I wasn't directly referring to bitcoin here. Also I do not know why people need to understand how Bitcoin is being made? Does the majority know how paper money is being made except of that it is being printed? No.

[sugarfree]

"Bitcoin is hardly in a position to replace national currencies."

Famous last words...

Is that really all you took from that article? That's honestly the only thought you had?

[PolarPoint]

Investment is never fair. Two people can buy the same investment at the same time and one could loose and the other could profit. It takes knowledge, instincts and strategy to profit.

I have miss the boat too. I think we will never see a 1000 fold rise in bitcoin prices again, but most don't give up and complaint about not being a early adopter. We may experience a smaller gain, bitcoin is still a good investment.

[giveBTCpls]

Investment is never fair. Two people can buy the same investment at the same time and one could loose and the other could profit. It takes knowledge, instincts and strategy to profit.

I have miss the boat too. I think we will never see a 1000 fold rise in bitcoin prices again, but most don't give up and complaint about not being a early adopter. We may experience a smaller gain, bitcoin is still a good investment.

And most importantly it takes luck.

[haploid23]

Bitcoin WAS the one in a lifetime get-rich-quick opportunity. I readed about it back in about 2009, I saw it linked to criminal activity so forgot about it. I saw it again years later when the bubble exploded, too fucking late johnny boy. Fuck my luck. It's specially frustrating since I readed about it in fucking 2009. Thanks to it im suicidal since that day. I could have retired my entire fucking family and myself, but no! of course, I had to have bad fucking luck. Now im stuck in this shit hole for life, slaving away for minimum wage and that's if I ever find a job. God fucking sakes. Bitcoin solves shit nothing for the 99.99% of people. What changed pre-post Bitcoin for 99.99% of people? That's right, bout fucking nothing. If I had to point a change, in any case it made me suicidal as fuck. Whenever I talk to someone about Bitcoin, they just don't see the appeal, they think it's too late to invest, to make any life-changing money, at least not without having a shit ton of money required to buy a good amount of BTC by now. Exactly, BTC only changed lives for these that:

1) Were lucky as fuck enough to invest/mine in the early days.
2) Already had a decent amount of money

You've been suicidal since 2009 because you didn't get in early? Are you suicidal because you didn't win the lottery either? My goodness, stop being overly dramatic about it. You read about it in 2009, you had ever opportunity to get in, but you made a conscious decision to not get any. How is that something to bitch about? You did not support it back then, and did absolutely nothing to help the technology grow. What makes you think you deserve any of the high profits of early adopters? It's always funny to see people use their Hindsight Crystal Ball for investing.

If you want a chance to get lucky like early adopters of btc, there are hundreds of altcoins you can gamble with. Go buy some for dirt cheap right now and hold for several years. You too, can become a millionaire.

[seriouscoin]

Bitcoin WAS the one in a lifetime get-rich-quick opportunity. I readed about it back in about 2009, I saw it linked to criminal activity so forgot about it. I saw it again years later when the bubble exploded, too fucking late johnny boy. Fuck my luck. It's specially frustrating since I readed about it in fucking 2009. Thanks to it im suicidal since that day. I could have retired my entire fucking family and myself, but no! of course, I had to have bad fucking luck. Now im stuck in this shit hole for life, slaving away for minimum wage and that's if I ever find a job. God fucking sakes. Bitcoin solves shit nothing for the 99.99% of people. What changed pre-post Bitcoin for 99.99% of people? That's right, bout fucking nothing. If I had to point a change, in any case it made me suicidal as fuck. Whenever I talk to someone about Bitcoin, they just don't see the appeal, they think it's too late to invest, to make any life-changing money, at least not without having a shit ton of money required to buy a good amount of BTC by now. Exactly, BTC only changed lives for these that:

1) Were lucky as fuck enough to invest/mine in the early days.
2) Already had a decent amount of money

You've been suicidal since 2009 because you didn't get in early? Are you suicidal because you didn't win the lottery either? My goodness, stop being overly dramatic about it. You read about it in 2009, you had ever opportunity to get in, but you made a conscious decision to not get any. How is that something to bitch about? You did not support it back then, and did absolutely nothing to help the technology grow. What makes you think you deserve any of the high profits of early adopters? It's always funny to see people use their Hindsight Crystal Ball for investing.

If you want a chance to get lucky like early adopters of btc, there are hundreds of altcoins you can gamble with. Go buy some for dirt cheap right now and hold for several years. You too, can become a millionaire.

Actually thats all he did since Nov 2013 (joined date). He came in here hoping to have some "luck" with alt-coins. I guess that failed miserably... His idea of "financial freedom" is retiring and never need to "work", that he should be rich. So hes been complaining that btc does not give him that. He never see btc as "money" just a get-rich-quick scheme. A perfect example i would say.

I still dont think hes worth living tho. This planet is already too crowded with idiots.

[Anders]

There are (at least) two different types technology knowledge involved in Bitcoin a) how it works under the hood, and b) how it works for the users.

Hardly anybody knows how ordinary fractional reserve money is created, and the same for Bitcoin.

How to USE Bitcoin for say shopping online is another matter. That could be made much easier than how Bitcoin functions today. Bitcoin is a bit like a Linux text prompt and ordinary money is like an iPhone. Bitcoin can become a lot more user friendly. It should be at least as easy and safe to use Bitcoin as it is to use an online bank for example.

The need for people to have to store, hide, protect and backup their private Bitcoin addresses sucks imo. That's one of the weaknesses of Bitcoin. In that sense Bitcoin is like old-fashion hide-under-the-mattress cash. Not good.

[jbrnt]

Bitcoin traders are sometimes accused of unfairly profiting from an opaque asset beyond the understanding of ordinary people.
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/currency/2014/07/bidding-on-bitcoin.html

I agree. Bitcoin is difficult to use. It has a very steep learning curve, but at least it is accessible to anyone who wishes to participate. There are so many other types of investments which are not accessible to us ordinary people even if we understand them.

[xDan]

A good response is that plenty of tech people who should have been able to understand it, instead ignored it, too.

Also - that it's not about investing. Why push the "invest" angle? It's cool futuristic internet monies. Digital cash, star wars "credits". That's the angle that should be pushed.

[Anders]

The need for people to have to store, hide, protect and backup their private Bitcoin addresses sucks imo. That's one of the weaknesses of Bitcoin.

You have it backwards. The ability to be the sole individual responsible for securing and spending my money is one of the greatest strengths of Bitcoin! No middlemen or authorities required.

Yes, the trustless innovation of Bitcoin is revolutionary. It blows the socks off ordinary money. I forgot to mention that.

What I meant is that even the Bitcoin wallet should be trustless and automatically secure. Could be tricky to solve technically though. As it is with Bitcoin today, either people have to manage all that safety and security by themselves or have to trust some middleman. Both options suck.

[skottiejay]

. It's unfair to people NOW because the only possible way to get any is from signature campaigns and such.

Bitcoin is a form of money.

Are you saying it's unfair that people have to actually earn their money by providing some kind of value?
Or, are you saying early adopters shouldn't have been rewarded for their risk in putting their time and energy into an unproven technology and helping Bitcoin get to where it is now?

What are you saying?

Sure we all wish we were adopters in 2009.  Hindsight is always 20x20.
But to say it's "unfair" makes you look like a whiner or a freeloader.

Who said I was whining? It absolutely should be easier for people to adopt to bitcoin right now. Just because a bunch of stores or shops are accepting it now doesn't mean it's "gaining ground".

As for Econ 101 no thanks already took the class and aced it.

Man haters gonna hate today

[jonald_fyookball]

. It's unfair to people NOW because the only possible way to get any is from signature campaigns and such.

Bitcoin is a form of money.

Are you saying it's unfair that people have to actually earn their money by providing some kind of value?
Or, are you saying early adopters shouldn't have been rewarded for their risk in putting their time and energy into an unproven technology and helping Bitcoin get to where it is now?

What are you saying?

Sure we all wish we were adopters in 2009.  Hindsight is always 20x20.
But to say it's "unfair" makes you look like a whiner or a freeloader.

More than unfair what's being discussed is it was just pure fucking luck. Most people that got rich forgot about their wallets and got the coins for mundane shit, such as buying drugs in SilkRoad or mining some for shits and giggles, not because they knew the price would explode.

1. You heard about Bitcoin in 2009 and I didn't hear about it till 2013.
So who's more lucky?   If you stop lamenting the past for 2 seconds,
you might see what an amazing investment Bitcoin still is. 

2.  No one KNEW the price would explode.  Not Satoshi, not
Gavin, not no one. 

[skottiejay]

you all got your panties in a bunch something today, it's like is if somebody doesn't agree with you there's some reason the jump down my throat. i'm well aware that into 2011 I could've bought bitcoin $14, but for me in 2011 there wasn't much media about bitcoin. i'm aware that it was a gamble and risk and then nobody knew it was going to blow up. stop assuming things about me that you definitely don't know are true one, and secondly stop trolling my threads and stop calling my response. that's why if I were on the outside looking in on bitcoin, I wouldn't have the damn bit of interest in it because of responses like the ones in the thread.

[cozk]

Money is unfair to the poor people.

[Bit_Happy]

...
Even in this forum I have seen demeaning opinions about people who bought in when Bitcoin was trading single digits ...

Are we offering any "assistance" to the people who sold when Bitcoin was trading in single digits?

[jonald_fyookball]

you all got your panties in a bunch something today, it's like is if somebody doesn't agree with you there's some reason the jump down my throat. i'm well aware that into 2011 I could've bought bitcoin $14, but for me in 2011 there wasn't much media about bitcoin. i'm aware that it was a gamble and risk and then nobody knew it was going to blow up. stop assuming things about me that you definitely don't know are true one, and secondly stop trolling my threads and stop calling my response. that's why if I were on the outside looking in on bitcoin, I wouldn't have the damn bit of interest in it because of responses like the ones in the thread.

I wasn't even talking to you!   I was replying to giveBTCpls.
(When you quote someone and reply, it is assumed you are talking to them.) 
And also, is isn't your thread (because you didn't start it) and I'm not "trolling". 

Please learn how forums work.

[skottiejay]

I don't think that I quoted you on that, that was more or less in response to the responses I'm getting for what I'm saying, and thanks I don't need a lesson on how forums work I was a mod at one for many years so I'm well aware thanks.

[jonald_fyookball]

I don't think that I quoted you on that, that was more or less in response to the responses I'm getting for what I'm saying, and thanks I don't need a lesson on how forums work I was a mod at one for many years so I'm well aware thanks.

No, you didn't quote me, you responded to my post where I quoted someone else
and told me to stop assuming things about you.

Whatever.

[fiddelingones]

The need for people to have to store, hide, protect and backup their private Bitcoin addresses sucks imo. That's one of the weaknesses of Bitcoin.

You have it backwards. The ability to be the sole individual responsible for securing and spending my money is one of the greatest strengths of Bitcoin! No middlemen or authorities required.

Yes, this is biggest strength of Bitcoin, but only for tech-savvy.

I just hope in few years there will be very secure and cheap hardware wallet, so everyone can safely use Bitcoin even on compromised computer. I think this will be next Bitcoin milestone.

[mobile4ever]

Yesterday I met a couple of my old classmates on the street. They asked about Bitcoin and started to whine that most people don't understand the mathematical fundamentals behind Bitcoin and therefore had no realistic chance to invest when it was cheap.

The old must make way for the new. Without that, there is no growth. I think it is right that those who are creating the future should profit from it. At the same time, those same people should be merciful to those who are not thinking about the future. We all have to live together.

[nicked]

Bitcoin is unfair to the "Lazy"! It doesn't take too much to learn how to use it.

[halfawake]

I just hope in few years there will be very secure and cheap hardware wallet, so everyone can safely use Bitcoin even on compromised computer. I think this will be next Bitcoin milestone.

It's already being worked on.  The price was listed as 1 BTC back when a bitcoin cost $100, but I don't know if they've since changed what they plan on charging for it or not.

[InwardContour]

The need for people to have to store, hide, protect and backup their private Bitcoin addresses sucks imo. That's one of the weaknesses of Bitcoin.

You have it backwards. The ability to be the sole individual responsible for securing and spending my money is one of the greatest strengths of Bitcoin! No middlemen or authorities required.

Yes, this is biggest strength of Bitcoin, but only for tech-savvy.

I just hope in few years there will be very secure and cheap hardware wallet, so everyone can safely use Bitcoin even on compromised computer. I think this will be next Bitcoin milestone.

This is correct. If you are not tech-savvy enough then you will not be able to secure your coins and would need some middle man to effectively for you

[Lauda]

Bitcoin is unfair to the "Lazy"! It doesn't take too much to learn how to use it.

Exactly. It doesn't take long nor much effort to understand the basics of Bitcoin or any technology really.

[Musent]

Bitcoin traders are sometimes accused of unfairly profiting from an opaque asset beyond the understanding of ordinary people.
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/currency/2014/07/bidding-on-bitcoin.html

Yesterday I met a couple of my old classmates on the street. They asked about Bitcoin and started to whine that most people don't understand the mathematical fundamentals behind Bitcoin and therefore had no realistic chance to invest when it was cheap. Of course, I encouraged them to invest now (better late than never) but seems that people generally rather enjoy wallowing in their own self-pity than take steps to adapt and overcome.

Even in this forum I have seen demeaning opinions about people who bought in when Bitcoin was trading single digits --- "they are not real investors and their earnings are equivalent to winning with a lottery ticket".

I can see that these issues can raise some negative emotions and Bitcoin has even not risen to 6666$ yet . What's the worst case scenario to follow? Bitcoin Jesus getting beaten up by angry conventional Warren Buffer apprentices?

Do the same people complain because they didn't buy Google stock at 89 cents?

[tmbp]

What kind of communist argument is that? I am a dumbass but I deserve the same reward as someone who has the talent to identify potential from a mile away?

[hollowframe]

I just hope in few years there will be very secure and cheap hardware wallet, so everyone can safely use Bitcoin even on compromised computer. I think this will be next Bitcoin milestone.

It's already being worked on.  The price was listed as 1 BTC back when a bitcoin cost $100, but I don't know if they've since changed what they plan on charging for it or not.

Why couldn't you simply buy a new, cheap computer that has never been connected to the internet?

[halfawake]

I just hope in few years there will be very secure and cheap hardware wallet, so everyone can safely use Bitcoin even on compromised computer. I think this will be next Bitcoin milestone.

It's already being worked on.  The price was listed as 1 BTC back when a bitcoin cost $100, but I don't know if they've since changed what they plan on charging for it or not.

Why couldn't you simply buy a new, cheap computer that has never been connected to the internet?

You can.  There's nothing wrong with that approach, and it's what I plan on doing myself.  But I suspect this a Trezor is cheaper if they keep the price the same, unless you get a computer used, it's likely going to cost a lot more than $100.

[EnterReturn]

I'm delighted to see a rather mainstream article changing their tone on bitcoin. It's no longer magic internet money or drug money. The developing nations seem to be on everyone's mind when it comes to BTC. Good things to come.

[zircon]

Business is unfair to non-businessmen. lol

[devphp]

Ideas of communism, interesting.

[peeveepee]

Business is unfair to non-businessmen. lol

And god is unfair for those who born into poverty.

[Finchy]

Bitcoin isn't even that complicated to use. You don't need to know or understand all the technology behind it or how it works. It's pretty easy to use an app or blockchain.info account and I'm sure it'll only get easier.

[freedomno1]

It's a heck of a lot easier to use and acquire Bitcoin than last year
So even the non-tech savvy can start adopting it now but I agree most people tend to wallow in self pity about it and say well if only it was easier, then again earning money is not ever easy   (Unless you were here in 2009 forgot for 5 years and found your wallet lol)

[Ibian]

Envy is a destructive feeling. It keeps you trapped in your current situation and prevents you from improving it.

As for securing wallets, I manage my parents coins because they are tech illiterate. Everyone has that option. Make some nerd friends.

[rext]

Yea it is good to have some nerd friends, helps out alot.

[Brooker]

It's a heck of a lot easier to use and acquire Bitcoin than last year
So even the non-tech savvy can start adopting it now but I agree most people tend to wallow in self pity about it and say well if only it was easier, then again earning money is not ever easy   (Unless you were here in 2009 forgot for 5 years and found your wallet lol)

I think most people just think it's going to be difficult because the technology behind it is quite complex for the average user, but so is a motor car or a pc but you don't need to understand how it works or what parts do what to use it. There just seems to be mental barrier people need to get over. Once they use it I'm sure they'll see it's as easy as using Paypal or online banking etc.

[Lauda]

Ideas of communism, interesting.

You will always find people complaining. It's pointless really.

[giveBTCpls]

Bitcoin WAS the one in a lifetime get-rich-quick opportunity. I readed about it back in about 2009, I saw it linked to criminal activity so forgot about it. I saw it again years later when the bubble exploded, too fucking late johnny boy. Fuck my luck. It's specially frustrating since I readed about it in fucking 2009. Thanks to it im suicidal since that day. I could have retired my entire fucking family and myself, but no! of course, I had to have bad fucking luck. Now im stuck in this shit hole for life, slaving away for minimum wage and that's if I ever find a job. God fucking sakes. Bitcoin solves shit nothing for the 99.99% of people. What changed pre-post Bitcoin for 99.99% of people? That's right, bout fucking nothing. If I had to point a change, in any case it made me suicidal as fuck. Whenever I talk to someone about Bitcoin, they just don't see the appeal, they think it's too late to invest, to make any life-changing money, at least not without having a shit ton of money required to buy a good amount of BTC by now. Exactly, BTC only changed lives for these that:

1) Were lucky as fuck enough to invest/mine in the early days.
2) Already had a decent amount of money

You've been suicidal since 2009 because you didn't get in early? Are you suicidal because you didn't win the lottery either? My goodness, stop being overly dramatic about it. You read about it in 2009, you had ever opportunity to get in, but you made a conscious decision to not get any. How is that something to bitch about? You did not support it back then, and did absolutely nothing to help the technology grow. What makes you think you deserve any of the high profits of early adopters? It's always funny to see people use their Hindsight Crystal Ball for investing.

If you want a chance to get lucky like early adopters of btc, there are hundreds of altcoins you can gamble with. Go buy some for dirt cheap right now and hold for several years. You too, can become a millionaire.

No, since 2012 because I forgot about Bitcoin as it was linked constantly to drugs and paedofilia so I ignored the whole thing, I dont want to be involved in that shit I thought.
Yes most people that got rich was due luck. Why do I do not deserve said luck, specifically?
Also no, no other coin will deliver the ridiculous results Bitcoin gave. And these that do deliver decent gains like DRK, require that you are involved within the obligatory instamine scam (aka right moment right time aka luck as always).

[giveBTCpls]

More than unfair what's being discussed is it was just pure fucking luck. Most people that got rich forgot about their wallets and got the coins for mundane shit, such as buying drugs in SilkRoad or mining some for shits and giggles, not because they knew the price would explode.

If someone has managed to hold a large chunk of coins from 2010-11 until today, it has nothing to do with luck.

I understand that it's easier for you to pretend that it does though.

If someone managed to hold a large chunk of coins from 2010-11 until today, it has to do 100% with luck, aka forgeting about it and then finding out you are rich thanks to mainstream news.

http://news.sky.com/story/1161340/bitcoin-man-buys-flat-with-forgotten-fortune

Mr Koch, now 29 and working as an engineer, only remembered the investment in April this year when he read an article about the soaring value of bitcoins.

His 5,000 bitcoins were suddenly worth around £430,000.

After spending a full day trying to remember his password, Mr Koch cashed in £116,000 by selling a fifth of his newly-acquired fortune.

This is the typical guy that got rich off Bitcoin. At least this guy was somewhat involved in crypto as an engineer, but the rest where just random people wanting to buy ilegal shit on SilkRoad and mining them then forgeting about them. Get real.

[giveBTCpls]

Bitcoin WAS the one in a lifetime get-rich-quick opportunity. I readed about it back in about 2009, I saw it linked to criminal activity so forgot about it. I saw it again years later when the bubble exploded, too fucking late johnny boy. Fuck my luck. It's specially frustrating since I readed about it in fucking 2009. Thanks to it im suicidal since that day. I could have retired my entire fucking family and myself, but no! of course, I had to have bad fucking luck. Now im stuck in this shit hole for life, slaving away for minimum wage and that's if I ever find a job. God fucking sakes. Bitcoin solves shit nothing for the 99.99% of people. What changed pre-post Bitcoin for 99.99% of people? That's right, bout fucking nothing. If I had to point a change, in any case it made me suicidal as fuck. Whenever I talk to someone about Bitcoin, they just don't see the appeal, they think it's too late to invest, to make any life-changing money, at least not without having a shit ton of money required to buy a good amount of BTC by now. Exactly, BTC only changed lives for these that:

1) Were lucky as fuck enough to invest/mine in the early days.
2) Already had a decent amount of money

You've been suicidal since 2009 because you didn't get in early? Are you suicidal because you didn't win the lottery either? My goodness, stop being overly dramatic about it. You read about it in 2009, you had ever opportunity to get in, but you made a conscious decision to not get any. How is that something to bitch about? You did not support it back then, and did absolutely nothing to help the technology grow. What makes you think you deserve any of the high profits of early adopters? It's always funny to see people use their Hindsight Crystal Ball for investing.

If you want a chance to get lucky like early adopters of btc, there are hundreds of altcoins you can gamble with. Go buy some for dirt cheap right now and hold for several years. You too, can become a millionaire.

Actually thats all he did since Nov 2013 (joined date). He came in here hoping to have some "luck" with alt-coins. I guess that failed miserably... His idea of "financial freedom" is retiring and never need to "work", that he should be rich. So hes been complaining that btc does not give him that. He never see btc as "money" just a get-rich-quick scheme. A perfect example i would say.

I still dont think hes worth living tho. This planet is already too crowded with idiots.

Reality check: No one gives a fuck about Bitcoin beyond investing and hoping it grows in value to cash out. Guess who's the idiot.

[wachtwoord]

More than unfair what's being discussed is it was just pure fucking luck. Most people that got rich forgot about their wallets and got the coins for mundane shit, such as buying drugs in SilkRoad or mining some for shits and giggles, not because they knew the price would explode.

If someone has managed to hold a large chunk of coins from 2010-11 until today, it has nothing to do with luck.

I understand that it's easier for you to pretend that it does though.

If someone managed to hold a large chunk of coins from 2010-11 until today, it has to do 100% with luck, aka forgeting about it and then finding out you are rich thanks to mainstream news.

http://news.sky.com/story/1161340/bitcoin-man-buys-flat-with-forgotten-fortune

Mr Koch, now 29 and working as an engineer, only remembered the investment in April this year when he read an article about the soaring value of bitcoins.

His 5,000 bitcoins were suddenly worth around £430,000.

After spending a full day trying to remember his password, Mr Koch cashed in £116,000 by selling a fifth of his newly-acquired fortune.

This is the typical guy that got rich off Bitcoin. At least this guy was somewhat involved in crypto as an engineer, but the rest where just random people wanting to buy ilegal shit on SilkRoad and mining them then forgeting about them. Get real.

The typical guy never forgot or sold so many.

[giveBTCpls]

Can you read?

Mr Koch, now 29 and working as an engineer, only remembered the investment in April this year when he read an article about the soaring value of bitcoins.

[wachtwoord]

Can you read?

Mr Koch, now 29 and working as an engineer, only remembered the investment in April this year when he read an article about the soaring value of bitcoins.

Yes and I explained that he is not the typical Bitcoin investor, mr. giveBTCpls who doesn't like Bitcoin because he doesn't have any.

[giveBTCpls]

Can you read?

Mr Koch, now 29 and working as an engineer, only remembered the investment in April this year when he read an article about the soaring value of bitcoins.

Yes and I explained that he is not the typical Bitcoin investor, mr. giveBTCpls who doesn't like Bitcoin because he doesn't have any.

Prove it.

[peperapijames]

its easier for people to wallow in self pity than to join the bitcoin movement,well anyway their loss!

[emeraldforce]

All is fair in love and bitcoin!

[earnabit]

I feel like Bitcoin's technical implementation is very strong, but the biggest issue going forward is how uneven the distribution of bitcoin is. Our best hope is that the price slowly goes up giving average apeople a chance to buy in before all their fiat become worthless

[ljudotina]

Please show me investment that does not need "deep understanding" and is easy accessable to everyone? No? None? Well of course! If it was so obvious everyone would jump in at same time and noone would make any money. Bes tprofit is not where "everyone" is but in places where only few go.

[spooderman]

beautiful sunsets are unfair to the blind. Let's destroy the sun.

[Lauda]

I feel like Bitcoin's technical implementation is very strong, but the biggest issue going forward is how uneven the distribution of bitcoin is. Our best hope is that the price slowly goes up giving average apeople a chance to buy in before all their fiat become worthless

This matter exactly why? Because FIAT is equally distributed?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/2014/01/23/the-85-richest-people-in-the-world-have-as-much-wealth-as-the-3-5-billion-poorest/

[Bit_Happy]

beautiful sunsets are unfair to the blind. Let's destroy the sun.

FYI:
Your current 'activity number' = Activity: 420
Your 'Personal Text:' = "blaze it fgt"

Really good pot is unfair to people who don't have enough money, let's destroy all the weed. 

[spooderman]

beautiful sunsets are unfair to the blind. Let's destroy the sun.

FYI:
Your current 'activity number' = Activity: 420
Your 'Personal Text:' = "blaze it fgt"

Really good pot is unfair to people who don't have enough money, let's destroy all the weed. 

You're the first person to acknowledge this. It's like no one else on this forum uses teh internet.

[kerafym]

When the bubble bust, the complain will the be other way around.

[jonald_fyookball]

beautiful sunsets are unfair to the blind. Let's destroy the sun.

FYI:
Your current 'activity number' = Activity: 420
Your 'Personal Text:' = "blaze it fgt"

Really good pot is unfair to people who don't have enough money, let's destroy all the weed. 

You're the first person to acknowledge this. It's like no one else on this forum uses teh internet.

I acknowledge you're doing a great job sounding like a juvenile delinquent.

[eid]

The non tech-savvy are unfair to Bitcoin.

[wachtwoord]

The non tech-savvy are unfair to Bitcoin.

the non-savy are unfair to the world.

[allthingsluxury]

That's life.

[peeveepee]

Envy is a destructive feeling. It keeps you trapped in your current situation and prevents you from improving it.

Never thought envy can really screw someone up.

[spooderman]

beautiful sunsets are unfair to the blind. Let's destroy the sun.

FYI:
Your current 'activity number' = Activity: 420
Your 'Personal Text:' = "blaze it fgt"

Really good pot is unfair to people who don't have enough money, let's destroy all the weed. 

You're the first person to acknowledge this. It's like no one else on this forum uses teh internet.

I acknowledge you're doing a great job sounding like a juvenile delinquent.

*phone rings* Hello? Oh it's the 1950s. They want their values and terminology back.

[hollowframe]

Please show me investment that does not need "deep understanding" and is easy accessable to everyone? No? None? Well of course! If it was so obvious everyone would jump in at same time and noone would make any money. Bes tprofit is not where "everyone" is but in places where only few go.

Most investments that are available to the public are suppose to be somewhat regulated, and certain people are prevented from selling investments so you do not need to have a deep level of understanding of what you are investing in.

[Baitty]

Understanding Bitcoin will always be complex but after time goes on and Bitcoin becomes more popular actually using Bitcoin will become easy something which someone doesn't think about. I bet a lot of people don't understand how cash or banks work but still use the currency.

[counter]

I think the distribution can't be expected to be perfect but sometimes you just have to take what you can get.  When Bitcoin was small they said it wouldn't work and now it is growing people complain it's not fair.  What is the answer then to start over from scratch and disregard Bitcoin?

beautiful sunsets are unfair to the blind. Let's destroy the sun.

FYI:
Your current 'activity number' = Activity: 420
Your 'Personal Text:' = "blaze it fgt"

Really good pot is unfair to people who don't have enough money, let's destroy all the weed. 

Sure you can have my weed , when you take it from my cold dead hands.

[drawingthesun]

Bitcoin traders are sometimes accused of unfairly profiting from an opaque asset beyond the understanding of ordinary people.
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/currency/2014/07/bidding-on-bitcoin.html

Yesterday I met a couple of my old classmates on the street. They asked about Bitcoin and started to whine that most people don't understand the mathematical fundamentals behind Bitcoin and therefore had no realistic chance to invest when it was cheap. Of course, I encouraged them to invest now (better late than never) but seems that people generally rather enjoy wallowing in their own self-pity than take steps to adapt and overcome.

Even in this forum I have seen demeaning opinions about people who bought in when Bitcoin was trading single digits --- "they are not real investors and their earnings are equivalent to winning with a lottery ticket".

I can see that these issues can raise some negative emotions and Bitcoin has even not risen to 6666$ yet . What's the worst case scenario to follow? Bitcoin Jesus getting beaten up by angry conventional Warren Buffer apprentices?

This is the correct way it should be, our society should not reward people that are lazy and unwilling to learn.

Let's put it this way; most people don't truly understand how conventional money works, they don't understand forex or the commodities markets and most don't understand superannuation.

These people are lazy! They put in 3 hours a day into the television, games, drinking beer! But they won't educate themselves. Then they wonder why others are rich and they are poor.

Bitcoin is not unique is this regard, it's another specalised area of money and finance that most people are too damn lazy to educate themselves about.

I love that we live in a society that rewards intelligent researchers such as ourselves than the lazy people that want millions for watching their televisions.

Put in the effort to learn, if you're unwilling to do so, don't complain! Tell these old friends that! Slow movers unwilling to put in the effort and learn must learn instead to be content with society moving ahead whilst they watch their televisions!

How can I feel bad for a lazy person? Money is one of the most important things in their lives yet they don't even know how the monetary system even works!

[bluefirecorp]

Fiat is unfair to those who are blind.

[Beliathon]

Capitalism is inherently unfair to just about everyone. Bitcoin isn't a great enough paradigm shift to change that dynamic.

Perhaps the next technological breakthrough that builds upon the work the blockchain began will be, if we're lucky.

[hollowframe]

Understanding Bitcoin will always be complex but after time goes on and Bitcoin becomes more popular actually using Bitcoin will become easy something which someone doesn't think about. I bet a lot of people don't understand how cash or banks work but still use the currency.

Bitcoin is very easy to use today. It is very easy to setup a wallet, and purchase bitcoin. The problem is that it is also easy to "forget" to properly secure your wallet, or to not secure your wallet at all.

[Bit_Happy]

Fiat is unfair to those who are blind.

If the cashier is honest, then it works pretty well for blind people.
Fiat is unfair to those who hold it long enough for inflation to eat into it.

[Ibian]

That word, fair, she is being abused. Fair doesn't mean everyone gets the same. That wouldn't be fair at all to those who deserve more than average, or those who deserve less. And there will always be people who are better than you. As well as people who are worse.

Stop crying about those evil people who managed to do better than you. Look up to them instead and aim to do as well as they did or better.

[fa]

For non techs, using Bitcoin is like Edmund C. Moy (Former director of US Mint) said "Easy Peasy".

[bitboy11]

Now is as good a time as any for those non-tech savvy to pick up a book and learn.

[jonanon]

I get the point of the OP. I'm not at all tech-savvy but still have some BTC, just enough to take advantage of a sudden move up but I would never put a lot in to it.

It can definitely be seen as unfair as someone who knows everything about how BTC works is at an advantage to those who don't. I still find it complicated but most of I have absolutely no interest in 'how' it works, I will always prefer physical wealth to BTC, ALWAYS!

[bananaControl]

I get the point of the OP. I'm not at all tech-savvy but still have some BTC, just enough to take advantage of a sudden move up but I would never put a lot in to it.

It can definitely be seen as unfair as someone who knows everything about how BTC works is at an advantage to those who don't. I still find it complicated but most of I have absolutely no interest in 'how' it works, I will always prefer physical wealth to BTC, ALWAYS!

The point is that those who knows about it, were not born with that knowledge. The same cannot be said about much of the wealth in the world today.

[Elwar]

Nanotechnology companies creating advanced products are unfair to those working as burger flippers.

[jjc326]

I do agree with this argument a little bit.  Still there are billions of people who don't know what Bitcoin is and they are still missing the boat.  Early on it was the more tech savvy people who made the most on it.  I even somewhat follow news about tech and I missed the boat on it until last year.

[blumangroup]

I get the point of the OP. I'm not at all tech-savvy but still have some BTC, just enough to take advantage of a sudden move up but I would never put a lot in to it.

It can definitely be seen as unfair as someone who knows everything about how BTC works is at an advantage to those who don't. I still find it complicated but most of I have absolutely no interest in 'how' it works, I will always prefer physical wealth to BTC, ALWAYS!

I think the point of the OP is that people who are tech savvy can easily figure out how bitcoin works and can use it effectively. On the other hand someone who is not tech savvy would have a greater chance of falling for a scam or otherwise potentially loosing their bitcoin as they may not fully understand how it works.