Malaysia Airlines MH17 Crash: Boeing 777 Crashed in Ukraine Near Russian Border

[umair127]

Russia seems to violate Ukraine's borders on a regular basis with such vehicles. This time Ukraine shelled them.

[Rigon]

Russia seems to violate Ukraine's borders on a regular basis with such vehicles. This time Ukraine shelled them.

What will happen next? What will be the consequences of this?

By the way, were the vehicles empty and parked on the side of the road, or were they driving into Ukraine and Ukraine attacked and killed Russian soldiers operating the vehicles? Because those are two totally different scenarios.

[Hell-raiser]

Russia seems to violate Ukraine's borders on a regular basis with such vehicles. This time Ukraine shelled them.

Where are the photos and videos? The U.S. Department of State said that the Ukrainian authorities were not telling the truth (mildly speaking). An armored convoy is not something that you can easily hide.

We are working to gather more information regarding reports that Ukraine’s security forces disabled vehicles in a Russian military convoy inside Ukraine. We are not currently in a position to confirm these reports

http://iipdigital.usembassy.gov/st/english/texttrans/2014/08/20140815305733.html?CP.rss=true#axzz3AWpsbYAj

[Nemo1024]

Over one month later, and still no preliminary reports. The tapes with communication between the tower in Dniepropetrovsk (Kolomojskij's headquarters) and the plane are not made public, and ICAO is still not involved. Curkin has several questions to the investigation process in the UN, especially since everyone was so quick to blame Russia for everything with zero evidence.

By the way, when the plane with the Polish president fell in Russia, the communications between the plane and the ground were made public by Russia. Why is Holland procrastinating?

[Nemo1024]

Oh!

http://futuristrendcast.wordpress.com/2014/08/25/germans-fed-up-with-nato-lies-us-wars/

It was not long, however, before the public mood in Europe began to turn. A pivotal factor was openly voiced U.S. threats in a law that had been passed by both the House of Representatives and the Senate of the U.S. Congress that could eventually result in an invasion of the Netherlands by United States army forces. http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/internationales-strafgericht-us-kongress-droht-niederlanden-mit-invasion-a-200430.html

When this was learned outrage was expressed not only within the Dutch government, but also among the population of the country. According to the law, if it should ever happen that American citizens are brought before the International Criminal Court (ICC) and accused at The Hague, Washington would exercise the preemptive right to invade the country in order to prevent prosecution.

Remember that Malaysia’s government had permitted a tribunal in 2011, whose judges in the tradition of British court proceedings condemned both George W. Bush and Tony Blair as war criminals.http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2011/11/20111128105712109215.html Some Europeans are asking if there could be a connection between the ruling of this tribunal and the loss of two Malaysian airliners.

[Nemo1024]

Conspicuous silence continues... Currently it feels as if only Russia is interested in finding out what really happened. Even though no Russians died on board, Russia and its reputation is one of the victims of this shoot-down.

Death & lies: The only truth of flight MH17
http://rt.com/op-edge/183132-only-truth-flight-mh17/

[ABitNut]

Conspicuous silence continues... Currently it feels as if only Russia is interested in finding out what really happened. Even though no Russians died on board, Russia and its reputation is one of the victims of this shoot-down.

Death & lies: The only truth of flight MH17
http://rt.com/op-edge/183132-only-truth-flight-mh17/

The minister said the Netherlands would publish a report on the tragedy in early September.

http://en.itar-tass.com/world/745147

I linked to an article from ITAR TASS, because I reckon you'd give them more credibility than western media outlets.

Is it September yet? No? Does that make the silence conspicuous to you?

[Swordsoffreedom]

It sucks to fly on Malaysia Airlines
(In my head thinking FINALLY SOME LEG ROOM)

If you can move some of the chairs in the cabin area that is
Malaysia Airlines flights left with rows of empty seats as company struggles after disasters


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/malaysia-airlines-flights-left-rows-4114263#ixzz3Bf0hqrGs

Back to the Crash in the Ukraine

People are still waiting for the results

RUSSIA has complained of a failure to release details of the investigation into the Malaysian jet that was shot down over the Ukraine in July, accusing international investigators of lack of transparency.

Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov queried on Monday why the recordings from the plane’s black boxes had not been released publicly and said he had the impression that “everyone else has lost interest in the investigation.”

Dutch investigators leading the probe said early this month that they would release an initial report “in a few weeks.”

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/russia-claims-malaysian-airlines-flight-mh17-crash-investigation-stalled/story-fnizu68q-1227036669088

[Nemo1024]

I am moving the following post in here from from under the troll-droppings in the Donetsk thread:

By the way, who shot down the Malaysian Airline?

A Ukrainiain MiG-29.

http://linkis.com/themillenniumreport.com/Ay72W

The whole MH17 thing was one of the most obvious false flags ever. Not only did it coincide with strangely coordinated numerology,  but there has been so much obvious evidence of a coverup that even the most hardened of conspiracy theory deniers would have to give pause.

Also, there has been a secret agreement that all of the investigating countries have signed Non-Disclosures, so whatever the outcome of the investigation... it will never be made known publicly.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/08/mh-17-investigation-secret-august-8th-agreement-seeps.html

snip:

 In other words: the official ‘investigation’ is being carried out by four nations that, as U.S. allies, are hostile toward Russia. One of those four nations, Ukraine, is not only a prime suspect in possibly having shot this airliner down, but is currently waging a hot war to ethnically-cleanse the pro-Russian population out of southeastern Ukraine; and the initial ‘news’ reports in Western ‘news’ media regarding the downing of MH-17 had said that this airliner was probably downed by the local rebels there, who were trying to shoot down the Ukrainian Government’s bombers that are constantly bombing them. Some Western ‘news’ reports even speculated that perhaps Russia itself had shot this airliner down. If the UNIAN news-report is correct, then there is no way that the ‘investigation’ will be able to be released to the public if it indicates that the Ukrainian Government (which, according to that news-report has veto power  over the making-public of the study’s findings) is blamed for having shot the airliner down.


Furthermore, satellite evidence showed that MH17 was shadowed by Ukrainian fighter jets so that cannot be denied. Also, the plane was ordered to lower from 35,000 feet to 33,000 feet by Ukraine air traffic control. And finally, all the Air Traffic control tapes were confiscated and have never been released. All of this is extremely suspicious and point to a coverup from the Ukraine authorities.

Reposting this here, as it seems to be a theory that explains the most of the observations (and the link of origin was not that stable for me):
http://linkis.com/themillenniumreport.com/Ay72W

Boeing-777 was downed by Ukrainian MiG-29, Romanian expert says.

Romanian military expert, pilot and former deputy commander of Otopeni military airport, Valentin Vasilescu, presented his version of the tragedy of the Malaysian Boeing in the sky over Ukraine. According to the expert, the plane was shot down by Ukrainian MiG-29, possibly piloted by Polish pilot.

Valentin Vasilescu refutes the theory, according to which the plane had been shot down by surface-to-air missile, which, according to American and Ukrainian versions, the militia launched from Buk-1M mobile unit.

“A surface-to-air missile, with a warhead weighing from 40 to 70 kilos, explodes not inside the object of destruction, but near it, at a distance of 50-100 meters. The detonation of the warhead produces a shock wave that disperses fragments with high velocities. They can puncture the fuselage of an aircraft, but given the size of the Boeing-777 (73 meters long, with a large wingspan), they can not lead to the destruction of the aircraft in separate smaller parts, as it happens with the aircraft that are 7-10 times smaller. Such fragments, when hitting a Boeing-777, can rupture the fuel system of the aircraft. The fuel can spread on the fuselage and wings, setting the whole plane on fire,” said the expert.

“Similarly, if the hydraulic system had been damaged, the Boeing 777 would have lost control of the flight. Thus, if such a large aircraft like Boeing-777 of Malaysia Airlines had been hit by surface-to-air missile, the crew would have been able to warn traffic control services of the situation on board. But we do not see anything like that in registers,” Valentin Vasilescu said.

The plane, as shown by black boxes, collapsed in the air, but this is only possible in case of a horizontal nosedive from the height of ten thousand feet, when the maximum speed limit is exceeded. “If the plane spins, the crew is very often unable to control the aircraft. Instantaneous depressurization of the cockpit may also occur,” the expert said.

Douglas Barrie, a researcher of the International Institute for Strategic Studies, said that the edges of a fragment of the cockpit fuselage on the right side were bent from the inside to the outside. This indicates an explosion that occurred inside the plane, which is impossible if the Boeing MH-17 had been shot down by missile equipped with a proximity fuse.

The plane could not be shot down by Buk-M1 as there was no electromagnetic radiation from the missile complex registered. There was no thick plume or white condensation of 10-35 kilometers from the earth, which appears and lasts for several minutes after launch.

The expert notes that he is not alone in his opinion. For example, Gordon Duff, a veteran of the Vietnam War, currently a security consultant, believes that the Malaysian Boeing could not be shot down by surface-to-air or air-to-air missile. According to him, it was either a bomb explosion on board, or “a gun of a Ukrainian fighter jet.” “It was a diabolical brain that planned the attack, as flight MH-17 was shot down from an onboard gun. The gun left traces that make one believe that it was a small bomb that exploded inside,” he said. Canadian expert Michael Bociurkiw wrote in his report that part of the aircraft fuselage was dotted with “shrapnel-like, almost machine gun-like holes.” He said the damage was inspected by Malaysian aviation-security officials. Bociurkiw believes that Boeing MH-17 was shot down from small arms or artillery weapons of a fighter aircraft that had a high fire rate.

The expert referred to the report from BBC correspondent Olga Ivzina from July 23, 2014, which was later censored by the company management. The report provided testimony from residents of the Donetsk region, who confirmed the presence of another aircraft in the sky over the area, where  the catastrophe occurred.

According to Valentin Vasilescu, evidence from Russian military experts about the participation of a Ukrainian fighter aircraft in the destruction of the Boeing were quite convincing. He recalled that at the press conference of the Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation on July 21, 2014, Chief of Air Staff, Lieutenant-General Igor Makushev and Head of the Main Operations Directorate of the General Staff of the Armed Forces, Lieutenant-General Andrei Kartopolov, noted that at the time when the airliner disappeared from radar screens, radar stations of the Russian Defense Ministry registered another aircraft, supposedly a Su-25. The aircraft is capable of gaining altitude of up to ten kilometers and can be equipped with air-to-air missiles with a range of 12 kilometers, capable of striking targets at a distance of five kilometers. The unidentified aircraft was approaching the liner at a distance of three to five kilometers and then continued to patrol the crash site.

However, the Romanian expert believes that it was not a Ukrainian Su-25, as the plane could not reach the altitude of 10,300 meters and strike the Boeing due to the poor level of training of Ukrainian flight personnel and technical imperfection of old Su-25. Vasilescu indicates that radars show Su-25 identically to MiG-29 fighter jet, as the planes have identical reflective surface area. “The altitude limit for MiG-29 is 18,013 meters, so the height, at which the Malaysian plane was flying – 10,300 meters – was easy to achieve.” “The Su-25 does not have enough acceleration due to its maximum speed of 975 kilometers per hour, so it can not catch up with a Boeing-777, and follow it at a distance of 58 kilometers at a speed of 900 kilometers per hour and at an altitude of ten thousand meters, keeping the velocity of about 200-300 meters per second, to attack it from on-board weapons. A Mig-29 has two high thrust engines, allowing it to develop the speed of 2000 kilometers per hour. The fleet of the Ukrainian Air Force has fighter aircraft MiG-29 that are capable of intercepting Boeing-777. The fighters are based near Kiev and in Ivano-Frankivsk,” the expert concludes.

Vasilescu added that MiG-29 of the Ukrainian army are armed with GSh-301, 30 millimeter gun, with a rate of 1,500 rounds per minute. The gun was loaded with 150 shells containing tungsten alloy. “These shells go through targets, leaving traces of perfectly circular shape. They do not explode inside the cockpit, they are not incendiary, but can kill the crew and destroy the cockpit, which can be seen in the presence of holes with their edges opening outside on the opposite wall.

Thus, the Malaysian Boeing MH-17, according to the Romanian expert, was shot down from a gun of a MiG-29 aircraft, rather than a missile. Even air-to-air missiles, the expert says, R-60, for example, have a proximity fuse. In this case, fragments would fly 360 degrees around and strike the entire fuselage of the aircraft, not just the cockpit. In addition, air-to-air missiles are equipped with heat seekers that target the most heated part of the aircraft, i.e. the engines. The crashed Boeing had the cockpit destroyed. The death of the crew and the depressurization of the cockpit made the Boeing spin instantly, and the plane fell apart at an altitude of two thousand meters. In the air, there was neither fire, nor bomb explosion.

The Romanian expert noted that Polish military pilots are best trained in south-eastern Europe and have many hours of flight time (180-200 hours per year). “They are familiar with the airspace of Ukraine, they took part in all exercises that Ukrainian Air Force has organized in the last four or five years. Polish Air Force has 31 MiG-29 jets, 16 of which were re-equipped by specialists of Israel Aerospace Industries. The planes received new avionics (multifunction color displays (MFCD), GPS-guided weapons, data-link support, UHF / VHF RT-8200 Rockwell Collins radio station and MDP video technology, etc.). Polish pilots were trained by Israeli instructors who have extensive experience in destroying a variety of air targets, concluded Valentin Vasilescu.

[boraf]

It sucks to fly on Malaysia Airlines
(In my head thinking FINALLY SOME LEG ROOM)

If you can move some of the chairs in the cabin area that is
Malaysia Airlines flights left with rows of empty seats as company struggles after disasters

They need to re-brand the company after having two huge disasters in one year. Fire the entire management team, and government officials responsible for the airline industry.

Short of doing this, no one in the world will use Malaysia Airline again.

[DhaniBoy]

there is a conflict in there, and commercial flight route should not pass through the conflict area so as not to endanger passengers, The commercial flight route to take risks too high, resulting in the accident was, hopefully there are existing policy of the commercial flights that do not pass through the conflict area ...

[Nemo1024]

Russia urges UNSC to stop ‘speculation around MH17 flight’
http://rt.com/news/183524-mh17-investigation-churkin-unsc/

At a UN Security Council meeting, Russia demanded the international community to stop speculation about the MH17 flight, unless someone is willing to contribute info important to investigation, such as air traffic controller’s records concealed by Kiev.

[Nemo1024]

From:
http://futuristrendcast.wordpress.com/2014/08/30/war-or-peace-damning-eye-witness-video-of-mh17-false-flag-plus-strange-failures-of-russian-rockets/

This has just been brougth to my attention. I believe it is necessary to post the translation of this very graphic and disturbing, but extremely damning video. Please keep in mind that the site that has posted this video, ‘AnnaNews,’ keeps being deleted by YouTube for their unbending drive to tell the truth. However, it keeps coming back up. Watch the video asap, to avoid missing out in case of deletion.

Incidentally, we have discussed the Boeing 777 #MH17 false flag in the Inaugural Episode of Lada Ray Live show: Crimea’s Scythian Gold; MH17; Russian Sanctions – Global Consequences.

Below, I have translated the main points of the commentary by the independent journalist Alena Kochkina, who was at the site of the MH17 crash 20 minutes after the event and who took the pictures in above video.

Translation of the main points:

“These body parts, there was some kind of liquid coming out of them as shown – not blood. This is what it looked like by day; by night the liquid around bodies looked strangely green. Very little, or no blood. The bodies looked like they were stored somewhere. There was an odd concentration of bodies, seemed like they were concentrated in 2 parts of the plane. It was impossible to stand by one of the plane parts – the smell of chemicals was overwhelming, as if in a morgue. Body parts didn’t look like they came from living people. There were birds that got hit and died. I took their pictures – by contrast, their bodies looked like they were those of living things, a very different look compared to the human bodies. Again and again, stressing that there was no blood and people didn’t seem like they were just recently alive.”

...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAlC7HhfkrU&index=8&list=UUuRgUSdmne5RXVGjKuHLBCQ

[moonlight14]

no one has given a good answer to the case. I pray for their relatives with sadness and not war continues more

[deisik]

there is a conflict in there, and commercial flight route should not pass through the conflict area so as not to endanger passengers, The commercial flight route to take risks too high, resulting in the accident was, hopefully there are existing policy of the commercial flights that do not pass through the conflict area ...

Once bitten, twice shy...

Many commercial flights are passing over the conflict areas in Syria and Iraq (don't know about Libya). It is rather a question of altitude these flights are required to keep. You just can't shoot down an aircraft with any hand-held weapon if it flies above 10 km of altitude

[Swordsoffreedom]

It sucks to fly on Malaysia Airlines
(In my head thinking FINALLY SOME LEG ROOM)

If you can move some of the chairs in the cabin area that is
Malaysia Airlines flights left with rows of empty seats as company struggles after disasters

They need to re-brand the company after having two huge disasters in one year. Fire the entire management team, and government officials responsible for the airline industry.

Short of doing this, no one in the world will use Malaysia Airline again.

True enough once a reputation is destroyed its hard to recover.

Although to be honest we don't know if there were any plane defects since one is still lost in the Ocean, and the other didn't break down but got shut down by a missile so technically their planes are safe to fly.

The main issue is that people are scared of the Omen over them more than anything else.

[Nemo1024]

http://www.corbettreport.com/episode-294-crashes-of-convenience-mh17/

[Nemo1024]

Russia is still pushing for progress in the investigation, not letting the issue to slink into nothingness:

Russia wants PACE to discuss MH17 crash over Ukraine
http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/747782

Experts ask Donetsk militia to comb MH17 crash site for small belongings
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/747743

DONETSK, September 02. /ITAR-TASS/. International experts investigating the downing of a Malaysian Airlines plane ask the authorities of Ukraine’s self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic to once again comb the crash site for small belongings of crash victims, republic’s top official told ITAR-TASS on Tuesday.

“We have finally got an official letter asking us to comb through a concrete zone of some 40 square kilometers,” first deputy prime minister Andrei Purgin said, adding that most things had been collected immediately.

International experts are no longer interested in debris of the plane, he said. “Anyway, it would be a problem to remove them, as the railway was blasted, and vehicles are not suitable either” as the scene is an area of combat operations.

Preliminary report on Malaysia MH17 crash due shortly
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/747765

The report will be ready either at the end of the week or early next week, she said. Vernooij said the preliminary report will shed certain light on the cause of the tragedy, but many questions still remain unanswered. In order to answer them, a more thorough investigation was needed and its results would be published next spring according to the board’s preliminary estimates, she said.

[Nemo1024]

Just read a joke, which sums up the essence of the disaster:

Eurostandards

If Boeing is shot down...
 ... by the freedom fighters, then it's an act of terrorism;
 ... by Russia, then it's a terrible crime;
 ... by Ukraine, then its a regrettable misunderstanding;
 ... by USA, then it's the fault of Boeing itself.

[Paya]

It's sad and disgusting that hardly anyone except Russia and the victims' relatives is still interested to find out the truth about the MH17. This tragedy served its purpose - to demonize Russia and rebels. That's where story ended for western politicians and their miserable medias.