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Author Topic: Idea for how to kill the sh*t/clone/scamcoin industry  (Read 3728 times)
gatra
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July 23, 2014, 01:54:52 PM
 #61

if you want manipulate that coin to damage them, it needs many resources and cost you many BTC

not necessarily...
how about a coin, let's call it ShitKillerCoin that is merge-mined with any shitcoin, but with the requisite that the merge-mined blocks must have no transactions (only coinbase) on the shitcoin chain?
This way, while mining your ShitKillerCoin, you are damaging the shitcoin because you are finding blocks in their chain that don't process transactions, delaying their network.
It would be important that everyone agrees on which shitcoin to target so hashrate doesn't get diluted in the sea of shit. Also, if mining software is "smart" and you achieve 51% hashrate you can orphan blocks with any real transactions, effectively halting the shitcoin for as long as you can agree to do so. Then you would dump your shitcoin if someone still wants them (or keep them as a trophy) and move on to the next one.
Maybe some voting system could be implemented so the ShitKillerCoin protocol could enforce which is the current target...

edit: (probably almost) any idea that includes actually mining or buying the shitcoins may end up being good for them, but this could really hurt them.

I just read this and its pretty brilliant. The one drawback is how often are there blocks with 0 transactions? (my knowledge in this particular subject is limited). It seems it would infer that the coin isn't heavily traded, and then perhaps not worth killing.

But I like the general premise of this idea. Spoetnik and a couple others would probably be on board. Shit I just ordered my first miner you can officially put me down as will have a go at it.

It doesn't matter how often do they have blocks with 0 tx. The idea is that mining ShitKillerCoin will create blocks with 0 transactions in coin shitcoin regardless of how many transactions did people using shitcoin actually attempted to make. This way we ignore their transactions and jam their network. This is an attack on their etwork and if we achieve 51% and orphan blocks mined by others, transactions in shitcoin could halt completely. We wouldn't earn shitcoin tx fees, but who wants those anyway?

This would work for PoW only. For PoS or PoW/PoS some similar jamming could be done, but it would be necessary to first buy some shit in order to stake.


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July 23, 2014, 04:05:23 PM
 #62

I brought this up earlier in this thread and stated my definition, and asked how others define a scam or shitcoin, but don't think anyone did.

A scamcoin to me is a coin where the dev promises features and doesn't come close, when a dev bails on a coin, when a dev runs an ipo and doesn't deliver coins at all, when there is a hidden premine, or a giant premine and the dev dumps... and things like that.

The difficulty is that there are no established, agreed operational criteria and I suspect there never will be - relative merit is a total can of worms. From an epistemological perspective, the issue is that the definition is ostensive, i.e. based on a shifting, partially-agreed set of instances that form the set. All very contentious and guaranteed to keep you occupied in endless hours of fruitless, often acrimonious, debate.

One particular difficulty is the lack of a common vocabulary or terminology - there are very few terms used with precision, it's all couched in informal language - scam, shit, crap, etc.  and there is a regrettable tendency to use a very broad brush.

If you can't produce an agreed operational definition of your target, you've no business planning an attack. Random altcoin terrorism beckons.

I found I needed to survey the domain in order to support the development of an ontology that would give me a better idea of the landscape (typically, I have to go looking before I find stuff). We're made the catalogue available as Linked Open Data:

DOACC Description of a Cryptocurrency an OWL ontology, rendered here in RDF/XML:
https://github.com/DOACC/doacc

Individuals:
https://github.com/DOACC/individuals

Images
https://github.com/DOACC/imprint

Because, yes it is a difficult problem and people are starting to recognise the impact of the repercussions and consequences. The ontology and associated RDF graph will support the further development of the ontology, which I hope will point the way towards the mid-level categories that are currently so obviously missing from the vocabulary e.g. “PoS scheme”, what's one of those when it's at home? I'll tell you what it translates to: “Use the source, Luke”.

Naturally, maintaining the currency of the catalogue is a resource sink and we're hoping to sustain both it and ourselves by piggybacking some artwork sales on it, hence Minkiz (see sig, enough spam for one msg) "data" section which presents the above in a Linked Open Data browser (conceptually akin to a block explorer) and, tentatively (until we assess the impact on machine resources) a SPARQL endpoint, allowing the data to be publicly interrogated.

We'll get there eventually.

Cheers

Graham
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July 23, 2014, 04:06:49 PM
 #63

I'm really getting tired with all of these new coins on these forums. They spam the unread posts section and I really do not care about them.

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July 23, 2014, 04:11:16 PM
 #64

I don't see how that would help. Buying huge amounts of these scam coins at the start would make a big pump, and thus would make profits for the developper, and he'd continue doing that.
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August 05, 2015, 01:46:20 AM
 #65

Funny how Iconic Expert never went to prison. Just goes to show how truly inept our government is when it comes to catching actual thieves.

Hell, even Japan is getting ready to shove Mark Karpeles' fat ass into one of their tiny prison cells.

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August 05, 2015, 10:31:04 AM
 #66

1. Buy up large amounts of coins from unknown devs that are likely about to be voted onto Mintpal or wherever else people are spending lots of BTC to get their coin onto an exchange.

2. Sell hard within hours after a coin hits an exchange for the first time.

3. Use your profits to buy the same coin at the lowest price possible and then sell them at the lowest price possible.

4. Repeat for as long as you can, until you are at break-even.

5. True altruists will spend extra BTC trying to lower their prices even further.

If everyone gets on board and knows how to identify the potential scamcoins right away, it will be no longer profitable for their cheesy devs and they will at least have to up their game a little bit.

Not sure if it's a really good/working idea. It can work with low volume ICO/IPO/ITO coins but surely not with the really damaging high value, high volume coins. First of all you have to buy lots of coins what the devs created from thin air (profit) and with your buy you also provided legitimacy to them (more profit). Perhaps you can make some turmoil around the launch, but if you are not a real whale, then from the ICO money probably they can easily absorb your dump... plus you will make a good opportunity for them to start bragging about the strong buy support Smiley. So, you can slow down the pump a bit but not much. If other well funded players are also involved on the other side then you do not have any chance.
The only way to success if you can persuade a bunch of rich people here, but this group will inevitably suffer some losses, and I'm afraid you are not going to find too much people here who would willing to take losses for saving the ass of a couple of greedy noobs (and therefore encouraging them to take more risk next time).
In the case of no or small premine coins this plan is even less viable.
 
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August 05, 2015, 10:36:30 AM
 #67

We can create petition and ask top exchanges to stop listing scams without doing proper research and if scam gets listed it should provide an option to report it to proper authority (with proof offcourse) so they can investigate.


Scams go away when they have nowhere to get listed.



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August 05, 2015, 10:52:06 AM
 #68

We can create petition and ask top exchanges to stop listing scams without doing proper research and if scam gets listed it should provide an option to report it to proper authority (with proof offcourse) so they can investigate.


Scams go away when they have nowhere to get listed.

LOL! Thanks mate! This joke of yours made my day Smiley.

Do you really seriously think that the exchanges going to refuse to take a nice profit on these coins? In addition there are some rumours about some "top exchanges" what maybe the real driving force behind some of these coins...
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August 05, 2015, 12:03:26 PM
 #69

1. Buy up large amounts of coins from unknown devs that are likely about to be voted onto Mintpal or wherever else people are spending lots of BTC to get their coin onto an exchange.

2. Sell hard within hours after a coin hits an exchange for the first time.

3. Use your profits to buy the same coin at the lowest price possible and then sell them at the lowest price possible.

4. Repeat for as long as you can, until you are at break-even.

5. True altruists will spend extra BTC trying to lower their prices even further.

If everyone gets on board and knows how to identify the potential scamcoins right away, it will be no longer profitable for their cheesy devs and they will at least have to up their game a little bit.

Your just as bad imHo! How do you know the dev doesn't have good intentions and you and your cronies ruined his/her coin...

@Hyperjacked1 Twitter
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August 05, 2015, 12:27:06 PM
 #70

We can create petition and ask top exchanges to stop listing scams without doing proper research and if scam gets listed it should provide an option to report it to proper authority (with proof offcourse) so they can investigate.


Scams go away when they have nowhere to get listed.

LOL! Thanks mate! This joke of yours made my day Smiley.

Do you really seriously think that the exchanges going to refuse to take a nice profit on these coins? In addition there are some rumours about some "top exchanges" what maybe the real driving force behind some of these coins...

well its more then just rumour, doesn't take much investigation behind the scene to know many of the top exchanges are behind many of the scamcoins.


yeah a solution to the shitcoin/scamcoin issues would be to have exchanges not list them. but many coins pay to list plus exchanges profit from pump n dump scamcoins  Sad
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August 05, 2015, 01:21:43 PM
 #71

WBB coin will have an answer soon enough, just wait and see..............
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August 05, 2015, 05:40:17 PM
Last edit: August 05, 2015, 05:58:19 PM by bit1
 #72

We can create petition and ask top exchanges to stop listing scams without doing proper research and if scam gets listed it should provide an option to report it to proper authority (with proof offcourse) so they can investigate.


Scams go away when they have nowhere to get listed.

LOL! Thanks mate! This joke of yours made my day Smiley.

Do you really seriously think that the exchanges going to refuse to take a nice profit on these coins? In addition there are some rumours about some "top exchanges" what maybe the real driving force behind some of these coins...

Agree, Specially when some exchange  to get  BTC for list new coins, But keep any exchange could be expensive anyway.
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August 05, 2015, 05:41:56 PM
 #73

WBB coin will have an answer soon enough, just wait and see..............

WBB coin?  Wich is it?   is a new coin?         
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August 05, 2015, 05:49:06 PM
 #74

WBB coin will have an answer soon enough, just wait and see..............

WBB coin?  Wich is it?   is a new coin?        

I see, I have missing it.         https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=952619.0
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August 05, 2015, 11:40:29 PM
Last edit: December 12, 2015, 04:42:11 PM by Sir Alpha_goy
 #75

.
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August 05, 2015, 11:56:40 PM
 #76

Your just as bad imHo! How do you know the dev doesn't have good intentions and you and your cronies ruined his/her coin...

Because there are telltale signs of what is a crapcoin vs. what is a coin that is meant to have long-term potential. But this thread is over a year old and I was much more naive back then. In general, its the same group of investors that recycle the same BTC into new altcoins, and we've all more or less smartened up since then.

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August 06, 2015, 04:50:35 AM
 #77

1. Buy up large amounts of coins from unknown devs that are likely about to be voted onto Mintpal or wherever else people are spending lots of BTC to get their coin onto an exchange.

2. Sell hard within hours after a coin hits an exchange for the first time.

3. Use your profits to buy the same coin at the lowest price possible and then sell them at the lowest price possible.

4. Repeat for as long as you can, until you are at break-even.

5. True altruists will spend extra BTC trying to lower their prices even further.

If everyone gets on board and knows how to identify the potential scamcoins right away, it will be no longer profitable for their cheesy devs and they will at least have to up their game a little bit.

how is this going to kill the shitcoin? it is just making you profit, and this is what is being done right now, isn't it?

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August 06, 2015, 06:29:17 PM
 #78


how is this going to kill the shitcoin? it is just making you profit, and this is what is being done right now, isn't it?

Because you'd sell at a loss, for the noble purpose of irreparably punishing the price of a shitcoin.

But like I said, I was more naive back then. I wouldn't waste my time now. Besides, you can short sell coins now. So if you truly believe they are crap, you can place a proper bet on it.

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August 23, 2015, 12:40:39 PM
 #79

CoinMarketCap: ‘About 40% of the Coins Ever Added to the Site are Now Inactive’
http://cointelegraph.com/news/115160/coinmarketcap-about-40-of-the-coins-ever-added-to-the-site-are-now-inactive
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August 23, 2015, 12:52:17 PM
 #80

CoinMarketCap: ‘About 40% of the Coins Ever Added to the Site are Now Inactive’
http://cointelegraph.com/news/115160/coinmarketcap-about-40-of-the-coins-ever-added-to-the-site-are-now-inactive


Then why does that piece of shit admin of the site not remove these shitcoins.
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