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Liberate
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March 21, 2012, 05:17:46 PM
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I want a full explanation of why you cannot mine on this, other than non opencl comparability(why not)
and any ideas on how to circumvent restrictions and make a miner.

Will code for coins, python c#, php(+html, jss, sql) scripts can also pen testing(not a skid) PM me https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=71889.msg813212#msg813212

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March 21, 2012, 05:19:52 PM
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Intel doesn't provide any OpenCL SDK.  There is no way to "program" the GPU.

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March 21, 2012, 05:24:09 PM
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I want a full explanation of why you cannot mine on this, other than non opencl comparability(why not)
and any ideas on how to circumvent restrictions and make a miner.
because its specialized hardware, basically is can only draw lines and circles on the screen, thats why its called a graphics card.
ati and nvidia, have also provided some interface, to use the card to other things then drawing... this is possible becuase much of the stuff on a gpu, is similar to a cpu, except that its much simpler.

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March 21, 2012, 05:26:48 PM
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Thanks for the reply's guys, is the limitation hardware based or could as super assembly coder create some sort of programming interface?

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March 21, 2012, 05:29:45 PM
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It is both.

1) the hardware has to be capable of being programmed
2) you need an interface.

no super coder is going to program hardware they have no data on. 

A couple thousand coders with specs provided by AMD haven't made OpenCL capable drivers for AMD GPUs.  Doing it in the dark is never going to happen. 

It isn't much loss.  The GPU is beyond worthless.  The cheapest (and I do mean cheapest as in $49 special) AMD graphics card has much higher computation power than Intel's GPUs. 

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March 21, 2012, 05:32:01 PM
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It is both.

1) the hardware has to be capable of being programmed
2) you need an interface.

no super coder is going to program hardware they have no data on. 

A couple thousand coders with specs provided by AMD haven't made OpenCL capable drivers for AMD GPUs.  Doing it in the dark is never going to happen. 

It isn't much loss.  The GPU is beyond worthless.  The cheapest (and I do mean cheapest as in $49 special) AMD graphics card has much higher computation power than Intel's GPUs. 
All hope is gone...
Thank you for ending my delusion.

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March 21, 2012, 07:02:15 PM
 #7

I want a full explanation of why you cannot mine on this, other than non opencl comparability(why not)
and any ideas on how to circumvent restrictions and make a miner.

It's also slow as fuck, right guys?  Even if it could mine, it wouldn't even make a few cents a day....
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March 21, 2012, 08:18:40 PM
 #8

I want a full explanation of why you cannot mine on this, other than non opencl comparability(why not)
and any ideas on how to circumvent restrictions and make a miner.

It's also slow as fuck, right guys?  Even if it could mine, it wouldn't even make a few cents a day....
its incomparable, its like comparing a toaster and a spoon. you will not get anything useful of comparing.

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March 22, 2012, 01:02:31 AM
 #9

Intel doesn't provide any OpenCL SDK.  There is no way to "program" the GPU.
That's untrue, starting with sandy bridge and up Intel's IGP supports OpenCL.
Their SDK can be downloaded from here:
http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/vcsource-tools-opencl-sdk/

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March 22, 2012, 01:19:04 AM
 #10

Intel doesn't provide any OpenCL SDK.  There is no way to "program" the GPU.
That's untrue, starting with sandy bridge and up Intel's IGP supports OpenCL.
Their SDK can be downloaded from here:
http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/vcsource-tools-opencl-sdk/
Cant DL right now, but will definitively look at it tomorrow and possible slap something together even if its shit .

Will code for coins, python c#, php(+html, jss, sql) scripts can also pen testing(not a skid) PM me https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=71889.msg813212#msg813212

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March 22, 2012, 02:22:30 AM
 #11

I am sure someone who knows more could estimate the speed, but if someone went through all of the work with programming just for it, it might do a few times more then a good CPU. 

Manufacturer   Intel

HD Graphics 3000 12@350-1350MHz


Codename   Sandy Bridge
Pipelines   12 - unified
Core Speed *   350-1350 MHz
Shader Speed *   350-1350 MHz
Shared Memory   yes
DirectX   DirectX 10.1, Shader 4.1
technology   32 nm

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March 22, 2012, 04:10:32 AM
 #12

Intel doesn't provide any OpenCL SDK.  There is no way to "program" the GPU.
That's untrue, starting with sandy bridge and up Intel's IGP supports OpenCL.
Their SDK can be downloaded from here:
http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/vcsource-tools-opencl-sdk/

Do you read before you claim things are untrue....

Quote
Hardware Requirements

Intel® OpenCL SDK 1.5 requires support for the Intel® Streaming SIMD Extensions 4.1 (Intel® SSE 4.1) or higher (Intel SSE 4.2, Intel® Advanced Vector Extensions (Intel® AVX)). SDK works on the CPU's which contain support for the required instruction set extensions:

Mobile and Desktop Products:
2nd Generation Intel® Core™ i7 Extreme Processors
2nd Generation Intel® Core™ i7 Processors
2nd Generation Intel® Core™ i5 Processors
2nd Generation Intel® Core™ i3 Processors
Previous Generation Intel® Core™ i7 Extreme Processors
Previous Generation Intel® Core™ i7 Processors
Previous Generation Intel® Core™ i5 Processors
Previous Generation Intel® Core™ i3 Processors
Intel® Core™ 2 Extreme Processor, 9000 series
Intel® Core™ 2 Quad Processor
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor, 8000 series
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor E7200.

Server Products:
Intel® Xeon® Processors, 7500, 7400 series
Intel® Xeon® Processors, 5500 series
Quad-Core Intel® Xeon® Processor 5400, 3300 series
Dual-Core Intel® Xeon® Processor, 5200, 3100 series.

http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/opencl-release-notes/


See any GPU in there?  Intel has long supported OpenCL on CPU ONLY.  I will wait for your retraction.  If you still don't believe me install the SDK and try to run the samples on an Intel GPU.  No need for a miner to prove it is possible just use their samples.

No intel GPU to date supports OpenCL.  No ifs, and, or buts.  That may change in the future but given the lackluster performance I doubt Intel wants a direct comparison.  They would much rather companies buying $8,000 server CPUs.

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March 22, 2012, 10:46:58 AM
 #13

Rumor has it that the upcoming Ivy Bridge IGP will support OpenCL.
"The Ivy Bridge GPU adds support for OpenCL 1.1, DirectX 11 and OpenGL 3.1"
See http://www.anandtech.com/show/4830/intels-ivy-bridge-architecture-exposed/5 for more details.

As for why it's so difficult to mine on IGPs, it's because they weren't designed to compute. AMD and Nvidia specifically gave the hardware computational abilities. That's why you cannot mine with an old ATI 3870 or Geforce 7900GTX. They came out before APP and CUDA.
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March 22, 2012, 01:58:50 PM
 #14

Intel doesn't provide any OpenCL SDK.  There is no way to "program" the GPU.
That's untrue, starting with sandy bridge and up Intel's IGP supports OpenCL.
Their SDK can be downloaded from here:
http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/vcsource-tools-opencl-sdk/

Do you read before you claim things are untrue....

Quote
Hardware Requirements

Intel® OpenCL SDK 1.5 requires support for the Intel® Streaming SIMD Extensions 4.1 (Intel® SSE 4.1) or higher (Intel SSE 4.2, Intel® Advanced Vector Extensions (Intel® AVX)). SDK works on the CPU's which contain support for the required instruction set extensions:

Mobile and Desktop Products:
2nd Generation Intel® Core™ i7 Extreme Processors
2nd Generation Intel® Core™ i7 Processors
2nd Generation Intel® Core™ i5 Processors
2nd Generation Intel® Core™ i3 Processors
Previous Generation Intel® Core™ i7 Extreme Processors
Previous Generation Intel® Core™ i7 Processors
Previous Generation Intel® Core™ i5 Processors
Previous Generation Intel® Core™ i3 Processors
Intel® Core™ 2 Extreme Processor, 9000 series
Intel® Core™ 2 Quad Processor
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor, 8000 series
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor E7200.

Server Products:
Intel® Xeon® Processors, 7500, 7400 series
Intel® Xeon® Processors, 5500 series
Quad-Core Intel® Xeon® Processor 5400, 3300 series
Dual-Core Intel® Xeon® Processor, 5200, 3100 series.

http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/opencl-release-notes/


See any GPU in there?  Intel has long supported OpenCL on CPU ONLY.  I will wait for your retraction.  If you still don't believe me install the SDK and try to run the samples on an Intel GPU.  No need for a miner to prove it is possible just use their samples.

No intel GPU to date supports OpenCL.  No ifs, and, or buts.  That may change in the future but given the lackluster performance I doubt Intel wants a direct comparison.  They would much rather companies buying $8,000 server CPUs.
I could be wrong here but i think HD graphics is embedded into all of those chips.

Will code for coins, python c#, php(+html, jss, sql) scripts can also pen testing(not a skid) PM me https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=71889.msg813212#msg813212

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March 22, 2012, 01:59:32 PM
 #15

You would be wrong. Grin

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March 22, 2012, 02:19:00 PM
 #16

Intel doesn't provide any OpenCL SDK.  There is no way to "program" the GPU.
That's untrue, starting with sandy bridge and up Intel's IGP supports OpenCL.
Their SDK can be downloaded from here:
http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/vcsource-tools-opencl-sdk/

Do you read before you claim things are untrue....

Quote
Hardware Requirements

Intel® OpenCL SDK 1.5 requires support for the Intel® Streaming SIMD Extensions 4.1 (Intel® SSE 4.1) or higher (Intel SSE 4.2, Intel® Advanced Vector Extensions (Intel® AVX)). SDK works on the CPU's which contain support for the required instruction set extensions:

Mobile and Desktop Products:
2nd Generation Intel® Core™ i7 Extreme Processors
2nd Generation Intel® Core™ i7 Processors
2nd Generation Intel® Core™ i5 Processors
2nd Generation Intel® Core™ i3 Processors
Previous Generation Intel® Core™ i7 Extreme Processors
Previous Generation Intel® Core™ i7 Processors
Previous Generation Intel® Core™ i5 Processors
Previous Generation Intel® Core™ i3 Processors
Intel® Core™ 2 Extreme Processor, 9000 series
Intel® Core™ 2 Quad Processor
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor, 8000 series
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor E7200.

Server Products:
Intel® Xeon® Processors, 7500, 7400 series
Intel® Xeon® Processors, 5500 series
Quad-Core Intel® Xeon® Processor 5400, 3300 series
Dual-Core Intel® Xeon® Processor, 5200, 3100 series.

http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/opencl-release-notes/


See any GPU in there?  Intel has long supported OpenCL on CPU ONLY.  I will wait for your retraction.  If you still don't believe me install the SDK and try to run the samples on an Intel GPU.  No need for a miner to prove it is possible just use their samples.

No intel GPU to date supports OpenCL.  No ifs, and, or buts.  That may change in the future but given the lackluster performance I doubt Intel wants a direct comparison.  They would much rather companies buying $8,000 server CPUs.
Im sorry if I was mis-informed in making my claim, but several "white-sheets" from Intel suggests it may be possible.

http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/introduction-to-intel-opencl-tools/
"There are multiple tools packaged under Intel GPA, for OpenCL we will only use Intel GPA monitor (to collect traces) and Intel GPA Platform Analyzer (to view traces).

Intel GPA Platform Analyzer aligns clocks across all cores to provide uniform timeline for CPU and GPU workloads and running tasks/threads."

Also another interesting find: http://software.intel.com/en-us/forums/showthread.php?t=79766
Intel rep, says it might be possible in the future.

For now all that Intel has said is:
http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/opencl-sdk-frequently-asked-questions/#9
"11. Will Intel support OpenCL on its new platforms?
Intel will support OpenCL on future tools and platforms. Intel is evaluating when and where OpenCL support will intercept our products, but no announcement has been made."

Again sorry for my mistake, but hopefully OpenCl can be implemented in the near future with Ivy Bridge around the corner.

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March 22, 2012, 03:38:25 PM
 #17

Rumor has it that the upcoming Ivy Bridge IGP will support OpenCL.
"The Ivy Bridge GPU adds support for OpenCL 1.1, DirectX 11 and OpenGL 3.1"
See http://www.anandtech.com/show/4830/intels-ivy-bridge-architecture-exposed/5 for more details.

This.

OpenCL is currently only supported at the CPU level, in Intel CPUs. It will be supported in future on-dye GPUs of Ivy Bridge, but it isn't supported in Sandy Bridge GPUs atm.

Remember that "OpenCL" doesn't mean that it's GPU-only. You can even compile CUDA to run code on CPU, right now.
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April 04, 2012, 02:12:15 AM
 #18

Here is my best guess:

1. CPU only = 1-2 mhash
2. Intel HD Graphics = 3-10 mhash
3. ATI video card = 200+  mhash

Until someone comes up with a miner that actually uses Intel HD... My laptop has a T4400, I think it has Intel 4 series graphics. I'll try your miner to see how many hashes I can do. Incidentally, suggest this to the guy making vanitygen.

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April 10, 2012, 09:04:53 AM
 #19

As far as I know, the best use for intel HD is to use it for rendering desktop so the rest of GPUs in the rig are dedicated to mining. But that's only useful if you're using your rig for something other than mining as well.

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April 23, 2012, 08:18:11 PM
 #20

Rumor has it that the upcoming Ivy Bridge IGP will support OpenCL.
"The Ivy Bridge GPU adds support for OpenCL 1.1, DirectX 11 and OpenGL 3.1"
See http://www.anandtech.com/show/4830/intels-ivy-bridge-architecture-exposed/5 for more details.

As for why it's so difficult to mine on IGPs, it's because they weren't designed to compute. AMD and Nvidia specifically gave the hardware computational abilities. That's why you cannot mine with an old ATI 3870 or Geforce 7900GTX. They came out before APP and CUDA.

Well, reviews are up for Ivy Bridge, but it looks like the OpenCL driver is still MIA. It might be awhile before we get any mining benchmarks for Ivy Bridge.

At what point would IB (and Haswell) make CPU mining relevant again? Or, more troubling, would it make botnets that much more dangerous? If IVB was good for 10MH/s and Haswell GT3 was good for 20MH/s, it could really add a new wrinkle to the casual mining market. Even though 10-20MH/s might not be a lot, when you're shipping 150M desktop PCs a year even a small percentage of users mining would make a large impact on the network.
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