No matter how much we love BTC, confirmations take way too long!

[LiteCoinGuy]

i dont see a problem here. every brick and mortar store can accept btc for a sale of a 40 USD jeans without waiting 10 minutes or longer.

and for online business: payment channels and more will the invented with zero waiting.



(and of course you can use Litecoin, its faster  )

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[Gumbork]

Agree, btc taking too long. But everyone seems to only like BTC for some reason..

[roslinpl]

Agree, btc taking too long. But everyone seems to only like BTC for some reason..

For a reason that bitcoin is a cradle of the crypto currency and so far itis the best of them.
Maybe sometimes confirmations take a bit long so perhaps this is some issue for shops accepting bitcoin but so far those merchants who accepted bitcoin are not complaining at all or I missed something :-)

[Brooker]

Why are you complaining? International money transfer takes much longer.

because the OP thinks thinks that credit cards are different. which they arnt. bitcoins are faster than credit cards, the only difference is that it requires that extra layer (a third party to insure signed transactions).

Ugh, yep, it's so annoying when people complain about this. They obviously have no idea how either credit cards work or bitcoins and their payment processors. This isnt a problem at all.

[leex1528]

What is the average time for 1 confirmation?  15-30 minutes ?  That isn't exactly terrible considering a lot of banks have a 3 business day policy...

[peeveepee]

What is the average time for 1 confirmation?  15-30 minutes ?  That isn't exactly terrible considering a lot of banks have a 3 business day policy...

Yes. Actually, 1st confirmation usually is around 10 mins based on my experience.

[farlack]

Not an original topic, but there is a reason why it keeps coming up.
No matter how much we love BTC, confirmations take way too long!

<Insert standard response>
"Transactions are instant, and full confirmation is usually done in under 1 hour... both of which are better than credit cards."

<Reality check>
Merchants complete your sale 'almost instantly' with credit cards, and sometimes make you wait almost an hour when paying with BTC, which really does not work well in the real world....  better point of sale options are needed ASAP.

Who the heck makes you wait an hour? I've done several in person transactions with bitcoin and I got my coin, they got their stuff, we both left right away.

Unless you're running a super computer in your back pocket linked up to all the satellites in space, and every computer on the planet, I don't think your android is going to scam me of $15.

[fonsie]

First they complain that bitcoin is too difficult for normal people, then they complain that confirmation time is too long and 0-confirmation is not sufficient, because the same people that were too dumb for bitcoin are now doing double spends.

I see the logic... NOT

I would trust my customers today with transactions above 10 000$ and 0 confirmations, because I know where they live.
For transactions of 50-100$, who will go through the trouble and the small success rate, wouldn't it be easier to just steal the thing.

[dancupid]

In my experience of using bitcoin, the only times I've ever had to wait >0 confirmations is when using exchanges - these exchanges will not accept credit cards or paypal (since they do not trust the illusion of 'instant' payment they offer).

Every other time I've paid for anything with bitcoin, 0 confirmation transactions were accepted and the transaction was instantaneous.

Which merchants are not accepting 0 confirmation transactions? Perhaps we need a list.

[BillyBobJoe]

We don't need any company like Visa or Mastercard. We're trying to get away from those type of companies. And like the user above says we already have services like Bitpay that cover these transactions so its irrelevant.

How about you not worry about this "any company" so that others MAY use that service IF they desire? Nobody said you must use it.

[minerpumpkin]

They really don't take too long. The transaction itself gets recognized and propagated through the network almost instantaneously! It takes a mere 1-3 seconds. If effectively all nodes have accepted that transaction and if it is likely to be included in the next block, you really don't have to care about the actual confirmation! Only wait for multiple confirmations when a lot of money is involved. That takes time in the regular payment systems, as well. Oh and credit cards work the same way, they accept your payment and the actual money only comes after multiple weeks or so.

[AliceWonder]

The confirmations take too long.

I get that the risk of double spend is very low, extremely low, especially for low value purchases.
But without using a third party to process the risk is still too high.

I write a check and it bounces, they have my identification they can come after me with, etc.

What do they have with bitcoin?

Third party payment processing does solve the problem because the third party can see the transaction of the network before it is confirmed, validate that it has a fee miners are likely to accept, etc. and give approval - but the whole fucking point of crypto-currency is to free us from the need of third party control over the flow of money - and that freedom is often used as a selling point.

So saying the solution is to use third party processing (for a percentage of the purchase price) is a bullshit answer.

Bitcoin simply wasn't designed for transactions where a fast confirmation is needed.

But it doesn't have to be the one coin that meets all needs.

[dancupid]

The confirmations take too long.

I get that the risk of double spend is very low, extremely low, especially for low value purchases.
But without using a third party to process the risk is still too high.

I write a check and it bounces, they have my identification they can come after me with, etc.

What do they have with bitcoin?

Third party payment processing does solve the problem because the third party can see the transaction of the network before it is confirmed, validate that it has a fee miners are likely to accept, etc. and give approval - but the whole fucking point of crypto-currency is to free us from the need of third party control over the flow of money - and that freedom is often used as a selling point.

So saying the solution is to use third party processing (for a percentage of the purchase price) is a bullshit answer.

Bitcoin simply wasn't designed for transactions where a fast confirmation is needed.

But it doesn't have to be the one coin that meets all needs.

Can you provide an actual example of when you used Bitcoin and the transaction processing was too slow?

[Lauda]

Why are you complaining? International money transfer takes much longer.

because the OP thinks thinks that credit cards are different. which they arnt. bitcoins are faster than credit cards, the only difference is that it requires that extra layer (a third party to insure signed transactions).

if the OP only wants to accept confirmed tx's this is where a bitcoin debit service can easily come in. where people use a service they pre-deposit small daily spend amounts (to get pre confirmed) and then they can spend instantly. (research offchain tx's much like mtgox codes or btc-e codes work to send between members)

like i said for small daily spend amounts offchain tx's solve this problem. as it gives trust to the merchantof receiving funds (because the funds are pre-locked in and confirmed) and because its small amounts, it gives consumers trust of the third party service ( i never recommend throwing your entire hoard into third parties)

What's much worse is that if you look at the replies after the one that I quoted, it is either that: a) almost nobody read your posts; b) didn't understand them.
Yes, I actually had a cc which got into a minus balance (even though I told the bank that I don't want it to be able to go under 0).
What actually happened is that I was doing many transactions, but VISA actually processed most of them only on the 20th day of the month.

[RodeoX]

It seems long to us. But the next fastest method, credit cards, can takes days to confirm. Sure the retailer let's you walk out of the store, but he has no way of knowing if your good for the money until later. With bitcoin, confirmation is confirmation of a transfer of wealth and completes the transaction.  

[jonald_fyookball]

Maybe what we need is a company like Visa or MC to supply a service where we deposit bitcoin and they issue the charge as fiat there wouldn't be any conformation time because the confirms would already have happened when you made the deposit.

Already exists.

Coinbase and GreenAddress provide instant confirmations.
Except its even better...no fiat.

[AliceWonder]

It seems long to us. But the next fastest method, credit cards, can takes days to confirm. Sure the retailer let's you walk out of the store, but he has no way of knowing if your good for the money until later. With bitcoin, confirmation is confirmation of a transfer of wealth and completes the transaction.  

With credit cards, the only real risk the merchant has is if the card is stolen. They can look at the signature and check ID and greatly reduce that risk.

If it is your card and you reverse charges, they have the option to take you to court. They don't have that option with bitcoin if you double spend because all they have is a cryptic number that can't easily be tied to an identity.

[RodeoX]

It seems long to us. But the next fastest method, credit cards, can takes days to confirm. Sure the retailer let's you walk out of the store, but he has no way of knowing if your good for the money until later. With bitcoin, confirmation is confirmation of a transfer of wealth and completes the transaction.  

With credit cards, the only real risk the merchant has is if the card is stolen. They can look at the signature and check ID and greatly reduce that risk.

If it is your card and you reverse charges, they have the option to take you to court. They don't have that option with bitcoin if you double spend because all they have is a cryptic number that can't easily be tied to an identity.

That's all certainly true. But consider that in 20-30mins. the retailer has your bitcoin with some confirmations and at that point who cares if your lying about your identity. Kinda like cash. If you pay me in cash and lie about your name, I still have cash and I'll call you Shirley if you want me to.
As you point out, cards have little risk because they are backed and insured. Something which we all pay for via fees. Bitcoin offers no such protection and requires more of the user/retailer. The rewards for doing it yourself are greatly reduced fees.

[AliceWonder]

Or in 40 to 70 minutes the merchant finds out you sent the same outputs to 4 other addresses... and the transaction you sent to him was not confirmed.

Equivalent of writing a bad check but he has nothing to go on to recover his losses.

[beetcoin]

this is another reason i forgot why bitcoin can never replace paper currency, even if delusional people still think that. compound all those microtransactions for .003 btc water and gum purchases, and it will be a big issue.