bitcoin changing my ideology from socialism to libertarianism! What about you?

[herzmeister]

nice strategy @Beliathon

[1714954025]

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[cuddaloreappu]

My arguement here is that a conspiracy that the whole left ideology and all socialism was created by the government and wealthy elite so that the rich remains rich and the poor remains poor and middle class trapped in debt slavery and financial trap.

because while any tax is raised, the poor is excluded, the 1% rich is less affected and the it is the middle class and upper middle class entrapped in financial slavery which suffers great and left to pursue day jobs and discourages innovation and entrepreneurship, who if given financial opportunity will be a direct threat to the 1% who spoil the free market with their crony capitalism.They destroy any competition and become monopoly.

All these makes the ultra rich more rich, poor poor and middle class trapped..

[Este Nuno]

My arguement here is that a conspiracy that the whole left ideology and all socialism was created by the government and wealthy elite so that the rich remains rich and the poor remains poor and middle class trapped in debt slavery and financial trap.

because while any tax is raised, the poor is excluded, the 1% rich is less affected and the it is the middle class and upper middle class entrapped in financial slavery which suffers great and left to pursue day jobs and discourages innovation and entrepreneurship, who if given financial opportunity will be a direct threat to the 1% who spoil the free market with their crony capitalism.They destroy any competition and become monopoly.

All these makes the ultra rich more rich, poor poor and middle class trapped..

Normally people would associate socialism with the opposite of what you say in your meme. Since in theory its supposed to distribute wealth.

[inBitweTrust]

Normally people would associate socialism with the opposite of what you say in your meme. Since in theory its supposed to distribute wealth.

In Reality it tends to concentrate wealth and power.

I have no problem with some of the objectives of socialism and would probably be happy living in an anarcho-collectivist community. This would probably work fine as long as the Non-Aggression principle was followed and the community charter had easy ways for people to leave if necessary.

The real question is how should your ideals of socialism enforced? Are the unborn forced into a social contract? Does dissent and non-conformity lead to kidnapping , torture, and possibly rape and death with your proposed social framework?

P.s....I am still shocked how any person(not you) who either supports either a RBE, communism or anarcho-communism can be into Bitcoin. It is pretty clear from the design of Bitcoin that the tokens are a form of money- Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System
https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
It is very odd that those who wish to abolish currency, capitalism, and wages support a system that is designed as a pure form of capitalism that makes their goals very difficult to achieve by design. I can envision various POS/POSV/POR crypto-currency variations that could support their philosophies but Bitcoin by design undermines them and their politics.

[cuddaloreappu]

My arguement here is that a conspiracy that the whole left ideology and all socialism was created by the government and wealthy elite so that the rich remains rich and the poor remains poor and middle class trapped in debt slavery and financial trap.

because while any tax is raised, the poor is excluded, the 1% rich is less affected and the it is the middle class and upper middle class entrapped in financial slavery which suffers great and left to pursue day jobs and discourages innovation and entrepreneurship, who if given financial opportunity will be a direct threat to the 1% who spoil the free market with their crony capitalism.They destroy any competition and become monopoly.

All these makes the ultra rich more rich, poor poor and middle class trapped..

Normally people would associate socialism with the opposite of what you say in your meme. Since in theory its supposed to distribute wealth.

The "What if I told you" meme is actually to present a very different view of the popular opinion

[jonald_fyookball]

  How can he, with a straight face, call out governments for taxation but completely forego any critique of capitalism??
 


Why dont you email him and ask him to address that in a video?

I honestly think he would reply.

[inBitweTrust]

How can he, with a straight face, call out governments for taxation but completely forego any critique of capitalism??

He has addressed this in many videos and even deconstructing terms used by RBE/communists like Structural violence. This is a common criticism of anarcho-capitalism which is refuted time and time again. Stefan and many anarcho-caps actually have a good understanding of Marx and the criticism of capitalism. Corporations and wealthy sociopaths tend to get most of their power and wealth through crony-capitalism or with fascistic relationships with the states which we wish to dismantle.

This is not to say that under a pure stateless capitalist society that social inequality cannot and does not happen either, because income inequality can and will happen solely based upon luck, ability, work ethic, and momentum alone. These concerns can be mitigated with anarcho cap and anarcho- collectivist societies by having a community charter that is voluntarily agreed upon where everyone owns a section of land that they can work or rent to cover a basic standard of living. (Anarcho-Caps disagree upon if , how much, and how long land can be owned). You could even have a community/national based healthcare system with anarcho-capitalism as long as its voluntary and conforms to the non-aggression principle.

As an anarchist I am with him there. However, when it comes to society as a whole, an analysis of capitalism is woefully absent.

I have indeed read a lot of criticisms of capitalism, and some points are indeed valid, but disagree with the abolishment of currency and wages because that usually leads to disaster as it serves an important function in determining value in a society efficiently.

Under your proposed form of Anarcho-communism(Is this assumption correct?) would the Non-aggression principle be followed or would your communities vote be imposed upon individuals? Does dissent get squelched with violent coercion, kidnapping, or torture? Do you want to abolish currency?

[shawshankinmate37927]

Ever heard of WAGE SLAVERY?

What corporation is forcing someone to work for them against their will?  One can hardly be considered a slave while working for a corporation if they are free to quit.

[movelikejagger]

strange change...

[cuddaloreappu]

Ever heard of WAGE SLAVERY?

What corporation is forcing someone to work for them against their will?  One can hardly be considered a slave while working for a corporation if they are free to quit.

How can someone be free to quit, when even one month without job will severely create problem from paying bank student loan interest, house interest, vehicle loan interest and much more...

This fear that is present in this crony capitalistic world makes people not to leave job even if they wish..

[shawshankinmate37927]

Ever heard of WAGE SLAVERY?

What corporation is forcing someone to work for them against their will?  One can hardly be considered a slave while working for a corporation if they are free to quit.

How can someone be free to quit, when even one month without job will severely create problem from paying bank student loan interest, house interest, vehicle loan interest and much more...

This fear that is present in this crony capitalistic world makes people not to leave job even if they wish..

Working for a corporation or taking out a loan are both voluntary agreements.  Freely choosing to take out loans doesn't make you a slave.  If you don't like paying off loans, don't borrow money.

[21M Bitcoin]

bitcoin will not change my life if i dont have 1000 BTC ,
can miracle come to me and send me to my address iin sig and change my poor life

[giveBTCpls]

It's the same good ol formula and the way it always goes: When you are on a bad luck streak or on a straigh dead end you'll be more inclined towards socialist-ish tier ideas where the state has to help the unfortunate.
When you are on a good luck formula aka you start making money, you want it all for you to enjoy the good life (aka living in an island with model tier hookers).

[inBitweTrust]

Ever heard of WAGE SLAVERY?

What corporation is forcing someone to work for them against their will?  One can hardly be considered a slave while working for a corporation if they are free to quit.

How can someone be free to quit, when even one month without job will severely create problem from paying bank student loan interest, house interest, vehicle loan interest and much more...

This fear that is present in this crony capitalistic world makes people not to leave job even if they wish..

Student loans are a state creation. The state subsidizes banks interest in exchange for a special arrangment where students are not allowed to remove the shackles of the loan through bankruptcy. The state is used as muscle to help private banks garnish and collect on the loans with the use of violence.

Home interest rates are manipulated by the fed mucking around with interest rates and encouraging bad loans by protecting the too big to fail banks in financial crisis and subsidizing certain loans.

This isn't to say that their cannot be predation within a a truly free market, but that by adding another layer of corruption has proven to not work.  

An anarcho-cap or collectivist society could be designed in such where capitalism, the NAP, and property rights are respected while at he same time people have basic needs taken care of with their land rights. There will be income inequality but this is fine as people should have the freewill to prioritize leisure and happiness over earning income if they see fit.

[Beliathon]

What corporation is forcing someone to work for them against their will?  One can hardly be considered a slave while working for a corporation if they are free to quit.

“America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you’ve lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced.
And in the end, the product doesn’t belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don’t care about making a living.
Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve.”
-Tom Morello

I am still shocked how any person(not you) who either supports either a RBE, communism or anarcho-communism can be into Bitcoin. It is pretty clear from the design of Bitcoin that the tokens are a form of money

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function."
-F. Scott Fitzgerald

Look, I'm an anti-capitalist. I don't believe capitalism OR the nation-state will have any place in the type 1 civilization we are building with the internet and crypto.
I'm also a realist, and the reality is that we're just not there yet - in fact we're still got a long way to go. Mainly we won't reach type 1 civ until our planet is governed by reason, instead of the violence we govern it with today. So for now, we need money to function.

Anyway I'm not ethically opposed to the idea of money (tokens of exchange). I have no problem with exchange-tokens, they are merely a tool like any other, neither good nor evil, but neutral like all tools.

I AM, however, strongly ethically opposed to the way we have been distributing these exchange-tokens so far, which looks like this and is only getting WORSE:

[CoinDiver]

Wage slavery is an idiotic concept. Capitalism is nothing more than complete freedom to the fruits of your labor. We don't have capitalism. Capitalism can't be blamed, it's nothing. It's the lack of any and all other coercive systems. It has little to do with capital, and everything to do with freedom.

[inBitweTrust]

I AM, however, strongly ethically opposed to the way we have been distributing these exchange-tokens so far, which looks like this and is only getting WORSE:

I am curious to understand a hypothetical scenario of how income and wealth distribution would be handled under your philosophy. I have read many proposed socialist and anarcho-communist criticisms of capitalism and they don't seem to address the enforcement aspect and the non-aggression principle in regards to how they would they enforce their economic framework.

Would the NAP be followed? Would a social contract be imposed upon the unborn? Aren't there enough anarcho-communists out there where you could crowdfund your resources and build your own test model city to show the rest of the world how much better your ideals are?(You understand that in the US the IRS has exceptions for non-profits and certain religions which allow you to not be taxed on your land if you do not function for profit in a capitalist manner, right?)

As a student of history, societies that throw away the useful invention of money all end up with horrendous consequences, but perhaps you have a solution that would work. Why not put it to the test as their are certainly thousands of anarcho-communists who think the same as you and you only need a small percentage of investors to crowdsource your dream.

[CoinDiver]

I was reaised republican and conservative, when i started to get a bit older it became more libertarian but i think more and more people need to accept socialism is good for certain aspects.

I'm totally cool with socialism if it lacks coercion.

[inBitweTrust]

I was reaised republican and conservative, when i started to get a bit older it became more libertarian but i think more and more people need to accept socialism is good for certain aspects.

I'm totally cool with socialism if it lacks coercion.

Agreed, but in practice this is difficult or almost impossible to achieve. The closest models I have seen that respect the Non-aggression principle are certain variations of anarcho-collectivism.

[jonald_fyookball]

I was reaised republican and conservative, when i started to get a bit older it became more libertarian but i think more and more people need to accept socialism is good for certain aspects.

I'm totally cool with socialism if it lacks coercion.

Agreed, but in practice this is difficult or almost impossible to achieve. The closest models I have seen that respect the Non-aggression principle are certain variations of anarcho-collectivism.

...which I doubt can work at scale.  sooner or later, someone will want to be rewarded for working harder, longer, and smarter than others.  do you agree?