bitcoin changing my ideology from socialism to libertarianism! What about you?

[Balthazar]

yeah ever since I got involved with bitcoins... my ideology is slowly changing from

being  pro socialism to pro libertarianism...

Time will come and will understand that a whole bitcoin project is a socialist republic.

I wonder how he would react if I would mix up "soviet socialism" and "socialism"?

This mix was tested already. Hungarian socialism aka gulyáskommunizmus worked quite well, it was the most advanced economy in the eastern bloc.

[forevernoob]

I wonder how he would react if I would mix up "soviet socialism" and "socialism"?

This mix was tested already. Hungarian socialism aka gulyáskommunizmus worked quite well, it was the most advanced economy in the eastern bloc.

Care to explain how Hungarian socialism is any different from the mix we have today?
Hungarian socialism was socialism with limited free market economics. Today we have social liberalism with limited free market economics.

And I don't think any of these "mixes" have ever worked quite well.

[Daniel91]

I wonder how he would react if I would mix up "soviet socialism" and "socialism"?

This mix was tested already. Hungarian socialism aka gulyáskommunizmus worked quite well, it was the most advanced economy in the eastern bloc.

Care to explain how Hungarian socialism is any different from the mix we have today?
Hungarian socialism was socialism with limited free market economics. Today we have social liberalism with limited free market economics.

And I don't think any of these "mixes" have ever worked quite well.

Yes, I agree with this.
It seems that Orban following footsteps of Putin.
In his hands is all political and economic power.
He control Media, parliament, supreme court etc.
It will be really interesting to see for how long Orban will be able to continue such politics, contrary to the regulations of EU.
I Hungary we have now something like state socialism.

[Beliathon]

I think survival (and education) is a birthright, and we should work only to gain access to our various luxuries.

Unh hunh. And where, pray tell, is all the free food and shelter going to come from?

Once capitalism is abolished, we'll have access to twice as much food as we won't be wasting 55% of all food produced globally for the sake of maximizing profits.

Some say capitalism is good when it is 100% free market legit..but all the trouble with capitalism, in the world that we see today are all due to crony capitalism.

is capitalism by itself causing this 55% food wastage or is crony capitalism causing food wastage?

All the criticism of capitalism from Beliathons side are examples of crony capitalism.
I wonder how he would react if I would mix up "soviet socialism" and "socialism"?

I'm afraid that just like theists and their all-powerful, infinitely-loving God, the perfect version of capitalism that you advocate exists only in your imagination.

It never has and never will exist in reality.

This is the definition of economic fundamentalism.

[forevernoob]

I'm afraid that just like theists and their all-powerful, infinitely-loving God, the perfect version of capitalism that you advocate exists only in your imagination.

It never has and never will exist in reality.

This is the definition of economic fundamentalism.

And "anarcho-socialism" has existed when exactly?
And don't give me the usual: "Paris commune in blahbla, FARC guerrilla blablabla the Indians in South America.... blablala"

Because I could also give you historical examples of competitive capitalism existing. But I won't because I don't think they are relevant.

But all that is besides the point. The question remains how can you call the ideology you advocate "anarcho-socialism"?
It's not free from oppression so how can it be anywhere close to anarchy?

Also you seem to believe your ideology is the answer to all the worlds problem, doesn't that make you a fundamentalist?

[cuddaloreappu]

Tech Visionary George Gilder: "Bitcoin is the Libertarian Solution to the Money Enigma."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9hb0EKAcro&feature=youtu.be

[cuddaloreappu]

Now just completed watching atlas shrugged movie..going to buy the novels too and read..

also watching this documentary

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/all-watched-over-by-machines-of-loving-grace/

[Beliathon]

I'm afraid that just like theists and their all-powerful, infinitely-loving God, the perfect version of capitalism that you advocate exists only in your imagination.

It has never and will never exist in reality.

This is the definition of economic fundamentalism.

And "anarcho-socialism" has existed when exactly?

Some point in the post-capitalism future, I imagine.

Are you an economic fundamentalist?

For all you white male American "libertarians",

Anarchism and capitalism are diametrically opposed ideologies, incompatible at the most basic level.

Is “anarcho”-capitalism a type of anarchism?

Anyone who has followed political discussion on the net has probably come across people calling themselves “libertarians” but arguing from a right-wing, pro-capitalist perspective. For most people outside of North America, this is weird as the term “libertarian” is almost always used in conjunction with “socialist” or “communist” (particularly in Europe and, it should be stressed, historically in America). In the US, though, the Right has partially succeeded in appropriating the term “libertarian” for itself. Even stranger is that a few of these right-wingers have started calling themselves “anarchists” in what must be one of the finest examples of an oxymoron in the English language: “Anarcho-capitalist”!!!

Arguing with fools is seldom rewarded, but to let their foolishness to go unchallenged risks allowing them to deceive those who are new to anarchism. Here we will show why the claims of these “anarchist” capitalists are false.

Anarchism has always been anti-capitalist and any “anarchism” that claims otherwise cannot be part of the anarchist tradition. It is important to stress that anarchist opposition to the so-called capitalist “anarchists” do not reflect some kind of debate within anarchism, as many of these types like to pretend, but a debate between anarchism and its old enemy, capitalism. In many ways this debate mirrors the one between Peter Kropotkin and Herbert Spencer (an English capitalist minimal statist) at the turn the 19th century and, as such, it is hardly new.

(...)

Are “anarcho”-capitalists really anarchists?

In a word, no. While “anarcho”-capitalists obviously try to associate themselves with the anarchist tradition by using the word “anarcho” or by calling themselves “anarchists” their ideas are distinctly at odds with those associated with anarchism.

As a result, any claims that their ideas are anarchist or that they are part of the anarchist tradition or movement are false.

“Anarcho”-capitalists claim to be anarchists because they say that they oppose government. As noted in the last section, they use a dictionary definition of anarchism. However, this fails to appreciate that anarchism is a political theory. As dictionaries are rarely politically sophisticated things, this means that they fail to recognise that anarchism is more than just opposition to government, it is also marked a opposition to capitalism (i.e. exploitation and private property). Thus, opposition to government is a necessary but not sufficient condition for being an anarchist — you also need to be opposed to exploitation and capitalist private property. As “anarcho”-capitalists do not consider interest, rent and profits (i.e. capitalism) to be exploitative nor oppose capitalist property rights, they are not anarchists.

"...Just as love for one individual which excludes the love for others is not love,
love for one's country which is not part of one's love for humanity is not love, but idolatrous worship.”
-Eric Fromm, The Sane Society

This is the 21st century, folks. The plain fact is that humanity can do better than capitalism.


Yours in compassion and solidarity,

World Citizen Beliathon

[jonald_fyookball]

People will always believe in private property and profits.  There will be no post capitalist future...certainly not within your lifetime.  Find me one person on the forum who agrees with your worldview and I'll reconsider my assumptions.

[Beliathon]

People will always believe in private property and profits.

You should be more careful when using words like, "always".

You think you believe this more firmly than the nobles of the feudal age believed in the eternity of the divine right of kings? The infallibility of their Lord, God?



Consider that today - a mere few centuries later - the typical internet-using, freethinking young person finds the concept of god to be downright ridiculous

Think on it, rub those 3 braincells you were given together, see if you can't come up with some spark of insight.

[jonald_fyookball]

People will always believe in private property and profits.

You think you believe this more firmly than the nobles of the feudal age believed in the eternity of the divine right of kings?

The difference is that my viewpoint is based on equality (all people have a right to peruse their own profits as long as they aren't hurting others) , while Kings believed their lineage was special and had rights others didn't.

Without profits there will be no business activity.  Businesses provide nearly all major values we enjoy.

[Beliathon]

People will always believe in private property and profits.

You think you believe this more firmly than the nobles of the feudal age believed in the eternity of the divine right of kings?

The difference is that my viewpoint is based on equality

The fact that you would dare use the word EQUALITY when discussing capitalism, is how I know without any doubt that you are an economic fundamentalist exactly as I have described.

"Equality", in capitalism, looks something like this.

And this.

and this:

[jonald_fyookball]

Consider that today - a mere few centuries later - the typical internet-using, freethinking young person finds the concept of god to be downright ridiculous
 

Like usual, you have no idea what you're talking about.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism

[forevernoob]

How can it be an oxymoron if it's more anarchistic than what you call "true anarchism"?

Really funny how you put people down just because you read on the internet that "anarcho-capitalism" is not true anarchism.
If you could supply valid arguments why "anarcho-communism" is more free than "anarcho-capitalism", I might change my opinion about you.
But no, you are still acting like a "know it all college kid" copy and pasting stuff.

If you truly believe in what you post here, how about using your own words for a change?

The fact is that what you think is anarchy oppress people. That is not anarchy to me. That's more like democracy.

[itsAj]

I think survival (and education) is a birthright, and we should work only to gain access to our various luxuries.

Unh hunh. And where, pray tell, is all the free food and shelter going to come from?

Once capitalism is abolished, we'll have access to twice as much food as we won't be wasting 55% of all food produced globally for the sake of maximizing profits.

I would disagree that we are wasting food to maximize profits, but rather are socializing the food industries in the name of price stability of food supplies. If governments did not purchase so much food just to be thrown away then overall food prices would be higher and less stable.

[jonald_fyookball]

I think survival (and education) is a birthright, and we should work only to gain access to our various luxuries.

Unh hunh. And where, pray tell, is all the free food and shelter going to come from?

Once capitalism is abolished, we'll have access to twice as much food as we won't be wasting 55% of all food produced globally for the sake of maximizing profits.

I would disagree that we are wasting food to maximize profits, but rather are socializing the food industries in the name of price stability of food supplies. If governments did not purchase so much food just to be thrown away then overall food prices would be higher and less stable.

How would food prices be higher in that case?  less demand means lower prices.

[bornil267645]

There is a fine line between liberated and reckless,,,,as long as we can maintain that I think it is okay.

[moriartybitcoin]

well I've always been libertarian, why the heck were you a socialist?!

[cuddaloreappu]

well I've always been libertarian, why the heck were you a socialist?!

because I was fooled by pseudo altruistic politicians into buying their ideologies which included socialism.. there were days when I thought wealth is evil...

regretting every minute with tears...

I ain't changing back for any reason... gonna amass wealth

[BitcoinBadger]

When money falls in pocket, we tend to become so selfish..same case with me