bitcoin changing my ideology from socialism to libertarianism! What about you?

[aigeezer]

It is impossible for words to have a "clearly defined meaning".  All words have fuzzy meanings.

I believe you overstate your case.

What is the fuzzy meaning of "three"?

[aigeezer]

socialist china is going to fall apart just like the previous dynasties.

Everything that has a beginning has an end.

A more interesting question is - what follows from that? - what should one do about it, if anything?

[iluvpie60]

Since kid, instinctively I have always felt the right to private property and  there is nothing wrong in amassing wealth.

But somewhere down the line, I was fooled by pseudo altruistic politicians into buying their ideologies which included socialism.. there were days  I believed wealth is evil...



Ever since I got involved with bitcoins... my ideology is slowly changing back from being  pro Socialism to pro Libertarianism...



regretting every minute with tears...

But feel happy and Liberated when I think about the pleasures of Personal wealth..Going to amass wealth.

Its like returning  back to your instincts and that truly feels liberated.

Are you having such changes?

i dont really know where you thought socialism was the correct way to do things. honestly it is good that you learned otherwise. as we point to any socialist country and for the most part they have a dictator or group of people who run things and call it "socialism". see, the way people operate there will never be a 100% socialist party. unless you count what germany had and killing people and having wars to maintain it. the united socialist movement and what not.

[cuddaloreappu]

I have a theory about how the present socialism actually fosters the crony capitalism

If there is one thing that the crony capitalist would dislike is competition. They always want to monopolize..

But innovation  comes largely from middle class entrepreneurs and their children

So the crony capitalist plan a pro socialist society.

They fund media to create movies like Avatar and change people mindset and persuade the middle class into believing socialism is the best system. the middle class ends up paying a lot of taxes which totally kills their entrepreneurship attitude and instead choose a day job.

By introducing Draconian regulations in the technology industry, and in the name of ethics in biotech space, the crony capitalist rule out any chance for competition and kill innovation.

And the society at large believes they live in a system  which  appears as if government is taking care of them in the name of socialism but in reality the government is just helping the elite crony capitalist..

[jonald_fyookball]

I have a theory about how the present socialism actually fosters the crony capitalism

If there is one thing that the crony capitalist would dislike is competition. They always want to monopolize..

But innovation  comes largely from middle class entrepreneurs and their children

So the crony capitalist plan a pro socialist society.

They fund media to create movies like Avatar and change people mindset and persuade the middle class into believing socialism is the best system. the middle class ends up paying a lot of taxes which totally kills their entrepreneurship attitude and instead choose a day job.

By introducing Draconian regulations in the technology industry, and in the name of ethics in biotech space, the crony capitalist rule out any chance for competition and kill innovation.

And the society at large believes they live in a system  which  appears as if government is taking care of them in the name of socialism but in reality the government is just helping the elite crony capitalist..

absolutely.  you nailed it.  This is what happens.  They also try to demonize "the rich" (actually upper middle class) while exempting the ultra rich from the same rules.

[MadAlpha]

I have a theory about how the present socialism actually fosters the crony capitalism

If there is one thing that the crony capitalist would dislike is competition. They always want to monopolize..

But innovation  comes largely from middle class entrepreneurs and their children

So the crony capitalist plan a pro socialist society.

They fund media to create movies like Avatar and change people mindset and persuade the middle class into believing socialism is the best system. the middle class ends up paying a lot of taxes which totally kills their entrepreneurship attitude and instead choose a day job.

By introducing Draconian regulations in the technology industry, and in the name of ethics in biotech space, the crony capitalist rule out any chance for competition and kill innovation.

And the society at large believes they live in a system  which  appears as if government is taking care of them in the name of socialism but in reality the government is just helping the elite crony capitalist..

Now you are on to something... Couldn't have put it better myself.

[itsAj]

not sure what socialism / libertarianism really mean, but I like cheap stuffs, I like craiglist, ebay, yard sale, discount, whatnot. I hate healthcare in the states as it's not affordable, I hate all kinds of insurances. Ideally normal people should be able to walk to in a hospital for an ear check, dick scan, without health insurance, paying like $20, max, (that's what they do in most countries btw). If my car / computer break, i will just throw them away and get new ones, but life I cannot. I'm all for libertarianess, but keeping things affordable is a must.

why the free market fails to bring down health care costs?

Because there is too much government interference in health care. The many government programs (medicare, medicaid) create an artificial demand for medical care. The fact that employers can pay for medical insurance tax free also gives people disincentives from not getting potentially procedures that are not medically necessary.

[paulsonnumismatics]

socialist china is going to fall apart just like the previous dynasties.

China is by no means a socialist state. They are the number one capitalist empire right now. And with an extra twist. They are tied to the dollar, but they can print as many yuan as they want without any kind of arbitrage. In the fiat wars they are playing with the cheat code :-)

[forevernoob]

They fund media to create movies like Avatar and change people mindset and persuade the middle class into believing socialism is the best system. the middle class ends up paying a lot of taxes which totally kills their entrepreneurship attitude and instead choose a day job.

Not sure if Avatar is a socialist movie. The bad guys didn't respect the blue peoples property rights.  

[jonald_fyookball]

They fund media to create movies like Avatar and change people mindset and persuade the middle class into believing socialism is the best system. the middle class ends up paying a lot of taxes which totally kills their entrepreneurship attitude and instead choose a day job.

Not sure if Avatar is a socialist movie. The bad guys didn't respect the blue peoples property rights.  

I think it's just a Pocahontas redux

[commandrix]

They fund media to create movies like Avatar and change people mindset and persuade the middle class into believing socialism is the best system. the middle class ends up paying a lot of taxes which totally kills their entrepreneurship attitude and instead choose a day job.

Not sure if Avatar is a socialist movie. The bad guys didn't respect the blue peoples property rights.  

I think it's just a Pocahontas redux

Not really. It's more like Dances with Wolves with big blue aliens.

[herzmeister]

I have a theory about how the present socialism actually fosters the crony capitalism

If there is one thing that the crony capitalist would dislike is competition. They always want to monopolize..

But innovation  comes largely from middle class entrepreneurs and their children

So the crony capitalist plan a pro socialist society.

They fund media to create movies like Avatar and change people mindset and persuade the middle class into believing socialism is the best system. the middle class ends up paying a lot of taxes which totally kills their entrepreneurship attitude and instead choose a day job.

By introducing Draconian regulations in the technology industry, and in the name of ethics in biotech space, the crony capitalist rule out any chance for competition and kill innovation.

And the society at large believes they live in a system  which  appears as if government is taking care of them in the name of socialism but in reality the government is just helping the elite crony capitalist..

absolutely.  you nailed it.  This is what happens.  They also try to demonize "the rich" (actually upper middle class) while exempting the ultra rich from the same rules.

That's just one side of the story. The "ultra rich" has both a left and a right propaganda arm. The right arm is Koch brothers, Cato Institute, etc, very obviously. It's Machiavelli 101, and it's age-old. Nothing astonishing really. Only sad that still so many people (on both sides) fall for it.

The real issue is not socialism or capitalism, it is authoritarianism. It can be designed to look more capitalistic or more socialist, it doesn't matter.

(And as I tried to explain in this thread several times already, socialism originally had nothing to do with statism.)

[cuddaloreappu]

I have a theory about how the present socialism actually fosters the crony capitalism

If there is one thing that the crony capitalist would dislike is competition. They always want to monopolize..

But innovation  comes largely from middle class entrepreneurs and their children

So the crony capitalist plan a pro socialist society.

They fund media to create movies like Avatar and change people mindset and persuade the middle class into believing socialism is the best system. the middle class ends up paying a lot of taxes which totally kills their entrepreneurship attitude and instead choose a day job.

By introducing Draconian regulations in the technology industry, and in the name of ethics in biotech space, the crony capitalist rule out any chance for competition and kill innovation.

And the society at large believes they live in a system  which  appears as if government is taking care of them in the name of socialism but in reality the government is just helping the elite crony capitalist..

absolutely.  you nailed it.  This is what happens.  They also try to demonize "the rich" (actually upper middle class) while exempting the ultra rich from the same rules.

That's just one side of the story. The "ultra rich" has both a left and a right propaganda arm. The right arm is Koch brothers, Cato Institute, etc, very obviously. It's Machiavelli 101, and it's age-old. Nothing astonishing really. Only sad that still so many people (on both sides) fall for it.

The real issue is not socialism or capitalism, it is authoritarianism. It can be designed to look more capitalistic or more socialist, it doesn't matter.

(And as I tried to explain in this thread several times already, socialism originally had nothing to do with statism.)

Now the billion dollar question is will bitcoin have or play any role in changing this scenario

[Beliathon]

Now the billion dollar question is will bitcoin have or play any role in changing this scenario

Actually this question is worth many trillions...

[forevernoob]

Now the billion dollar question is will bitcoin have or play any role in changing this scenario

I think in many ways the Internet is true anarchism.
As we move more and more into the digital world it will definitely affect what we call society.

(And as I tried to explain in this thread several times already, socialism originally had nothing to do with statism.)

I believe you are referring to non-coercive socialism. And you never answered my question on what the difference would be between non-coercive socialism and private charities?
I don't see any point in calling it socialism if it's non-coercive.

[cuddaloreappu]

Now the billion dollar question is will bitcoin have or play any role in changing this scenario

Actually this question is worth many trillions...

i actually thought you seriously left...welcome back mate...

There are lot of things we are not sure about, what we think factual and truth today seems completely upside down tomorrow and vice versa..

So as of today lets all just debate healthy and keep learning, and whatever happens always keep out an eye to acquire wealth.

We are truly free individuals and world citizens.

[X7]

Since kid, instinctively I have always felt the right to private property and  there is nothing wrong in amassing wealth.

But somewhere down the line, I was fooled by pseudo altruistic politicians into buying their ideologies which included socialism.. there were days  I believed wealth is evil...



Ever since I got involved with bitcoins... my ideology is slowly changing back from being  pro Socialism to pro Libertarianism...



regretting every minute with tears...

But feel happy and Liberated when I think about the pleasures of Personal wealth..Going to amass wealth.

Its like returning  back to your instincts and that truly feels liberated.

Are you having such changes?

OP - Yes
http://thebitcoinmovement.com/imagine-future/

Literally..

[MadAlpha]

It is impossible for words to have a "clearly defined meaning".  All words have fuzzy meanings. That is how the human language works.

I don't think this is correct, at all. We have things like math, physics and logic, all of which use precise language. All our knowledge and technology is based on that assumption. We have computers and Bitcoin precisely because a statement like "two plus two equals four" is not ambiguous or fuzzy.

I think language can be as precise or as fuzzy as we want it to be.

If the purpose is to convey information, isn't it in our interest to make sure our language is clear, and words have definite meaning? Otherwise all this discussion is just fuzzy background noise, containing no usable information, and no knowledge can be learned from it. We are essentially wasting our time in that case.

If you read a long sentence, and understand everything except one word, that one word could turn the meaning of the whole sentence to something else. The informational value of such a sentence is mediocre at best.

There is no reason we should accept a language which is inprecise or fuzzy. If we give up our ability to communicate clearly, then everything is lost, and we become less than savage cavemen fighting with clubs. I suspect there may be some forces in the world who are intentionally trying to lower the quality and precision of our language.

Maybe inprecise language can have its use in art, like songs or poems, where we are conveying things like emotions, and not pure information. Not sure.

[shawshankinmate37927]

It is impossible for words to have a "clearly defined meaning".  All words have fuzzy meanings. That is how the human language works.

I don't think this is correct, at all. We have things like math, physics and logic, all of which use precise language. All our knowledge and technology is based on that assumption. We have computers and Bitcoin precisely because a statement like "two plus two equals four" is not ambiguous or fuzzy.

I think language can be as precise or as fuzzy as we want it to be.

If the purpose is to convey information, isn't it in our interest to make sure our language is clear, and words have definite meaning? Otherwise all this discussion is just fuzzy background noise, containing no usable information, and no knowledge can be learned from it. We are essentially wasting our time in that case.

If you read a long sentence, and understand everything except one word, that one word could turn the meaning of the whole sentence to something else. The informational value of such a sentence is mediocre at best.

There is no reason we should accept a language which is inprecise or fuzzy. If we give up our ability to communicate clearly, then everything is lost, and we become less than savage cavemen fighting with clubs. I suspect there may be some forces in the world who are intentionally trying to lower the quality and precision of our language.

Maybe inprecise language can have its use in art, like songs or poems, where we are conveying things like emotions, and not pure information. Not sure.

Excellent observation. Yes, it's the scammers that use smoke and mirrors to hijack words and try to change their meanings.

[herzmeister]

(And as I tried to explain in this thread several times already, socialism originally had nothing to do with statism.)

I believe you are referring to non-coercive socialism. And you never answered my question on what the difference would be between non-coercive socialism and private charities?
I don't see any point in calling it socialism if it's non-coercive.

No, you're still on the wrong boat.

Again, socialism means workers to be in control of the means of production. It seems many people have to unlearn a lot before they can wrap their heads around what is outside this very false dichotomy of state vs market. Watch this docu for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPl_Y3Qdb7Y