bitcoin changing my ideology from socialism to libertarianism! What about you?

[cynicSOB]

Why do certain states(like the USA) allow anarcho-communist communities the ability to opt out of the financial responsibility side of this social contract?

(?) because the social contract does have an opt-out clause?

I don't know where you live, but there are lots of anarcho-hippie communities that live in their own bubble. They don't contribute to society and society doesn't care about them. Come to the Patagonia and you won't get tortured or killed.

[inBitweTrust]

what was first, the egg or the chicken? the state enforces at gunpoint what the rich bankers tell them to.

Free markets eventually lead to concentration of wealth and monopolies.

The great thing is, with current technology, you don't have to wait for politicians to redistribute the wealth stolen from you. You can employ "direct action" and redistribute it yourself.

Go ahead and ignore copyrights and torrent Music, movies, tv shows, programs.
Go ahead and ignore patents and download and print physibles.
Go ahead refrain from paying corporate welfare and subsidizing banks and the military industrial complex by using bitcoin to lower your tax exposure.

Or join a Anarcho-communist community and enjoy the benefits it has to offer.

Come to the Patagonia and you won't get tortured or killed.

I don't believe governments or corporations should be allowed to own land. I should be free to travel unmolested on unclaimed land , through property easement, or allowed to visit friends without my rights being violated. Yes, I could choose to hide in the wilderness but this merely lowers my risk of exposure. There are many examples of "wilderness" men being kidnapped and killed as well.

"Anarcho-hippie" communities tend to be anarcho-communist or socialist in nature. They are a bit safer because they don't directly compete or undermine the existing power structures. Essentially, states are uninterested in them as they are too unimportant to bother with. If your anarcho-communist commune starts competing with existing power structures than I would guarantee you will be rounded up and kidnapped and tortured. Give it a try and grow a lot of marijuana and magic mushrooms and trade with outside communities and see what will happen.

P.s... Social Contracts are perfectly fine as long as individuals consent to them and are given an escape clause. It is the immorality of the imposition which we are against.
I am happy if you want to live in a capitalist-free community and even encourage it. Will you permit us the same respect? Do you agree people should freely be able to live under the community standards they choose as long as it doesn't violate others(I.E...an anarcho-cap community cannot pollute your river from upstream)? If you don't want to touch our dirty crypto-currency we are fine with that.

[forevernoob]

I think we all know where you stand. But if you stop and think for awhile, would it be morally right you to take property from someone that doesn't share your views?

"taking" implies ownership. One who doesn't believe in property rights doesn't concern himself with "taking" or "owning". Only "using" and "surviving".

So you can justify all this by saying "I believe in it and therefore it's the truth"?
You are basically shoving your beliefs down our throats.

So what would you do if we refuse to give up our property to you?

[Moneyunmaker]

There are no universal truths on this matter, this is the only truth.

[forevernoob]

There are no universal truths on this matter, this is the only truth.

Got any facts to prove that?

[Intermatic]

Bitcoin has made me a cryptoanarchist. A cryptostate is what could succeed liberal democracy; a bridge to the technological singularity.

[inBitweTrust]

There are no universal truths on this matter, this is the only truth.

The only absolute Truth I have yet to hear someone refute is Kierkegaard's derivation of Decartes' "Cogito ergo sum" ----> "It is existing"

Other than that there are some logical universal absolutes, but those are conceptual truths as perceived in this reality with a multi-verse
 containing different conceptual absolutes being an unknown possibility .

[Beliathon]

So what would you do if we refuse to give up our property to you?

You don't own the property, and neither do I. You have the illusion of ownership because you have control over it. You have control over it because some men with guns will kill for you if you show them a paper. Control enforced through systematic violence, that's the reality of capitalism. The only reality.

Everything else is in your head. You still don't get it, your cup is too full. The point is compassion. This isn't rocket surgery.

Until there are no more starving people on this continent, every strip mall should be bulldozed and every parking lot torn up so food can be grown. This should be done whether the capitalist "owners" like it or not, because, you know, people are fucking starving.

Fuck your property. People are dying so some rich assholes can get a little richer. Your system is disgusting. There may come a time when a mob of hungry people must face off against some capitalist and his hired thugs... well we know which side of that fight you'll be on, and we know which side I'll be on.

[jonald_fyookball]

So what would you do if we refuse to give up our property to you?

You don't own the property, and neither do I. You have the illusion of ownership because you have control over it. You have control over it because some men with guns will kill for you if you show them a paper. Control enforced through systematic violence, that's the reality of capitalism. The only reality.

huh?  even in socialist or communist countries you can't just take people's personal property, and there's still cops who will generally maintain the rule of law.  This kind of post just makes you sound like a fanatic.

Also you are using intellectual abstractions to avoid a simple question here. Try to answer the question in the context of the commonly understood idea of property.  I bet you won't.  

[cuddaloreappu]

You do realize the primary reason individuals like Bill Gates have amassed such gross sums of wealth is because the state(Which you support either on a local or larger scale) granted these individuals special rights(copyright/patent/trademark) enforced at gunpoint. Such profits would be much more difficult to require without state granted monopolies.

In a free market, there wouldn't need to be a middle man to redistribute this unfairly obtained wealth. In your society you are subsidizing corruption by having a government that can be manipulated and than taxing the public to "fix" this corruption.

what was first, the egg or the chicken? the state enforces at gunpoint what the rich bankers tell them to.

Free markets eventually lead to concentration of wealth and monopolies.

Why and How would free markets do that

[MadAlpha]

You don't own the property, and neither do I. You have the illusion of ownership because you have control over it. You have control over it because some men with guns will kill for you if you show them a paper. Control enforced through systematic violence, that's the reality of capitalism. The only reality.

Without the concept of ownership, anyone can take anything from anyone at their will. There is no law or police to protect persons property from theft. That results in a state of constant, absolute violence, also known as might makes right, and isn't violence what you condemned?

Until there are no more starving people on this continent, every strip mall should be bulldozed and every parking lot torn up so food can be grown. This should be done whether the capitalist "owners" like it or not, because, you know, people are fucking starving.

There will probably always be poor people somewhere in the world that you can point to. So, you think western cities should be bulldozed to the ground, and we should all live in huts made of clay, because some people in Africa do? We should all lower our living standard to the level of the poorest people, instead of thinking how they can raise their living standard?

Fuck your property. People are dying so some rich assholes can get a little richer. Your system is disgusting. There may come a time when a mob of hungry people must face off against some capitalist and his hired thugs... well we know which side of that fight you'll be on, and we know which side I'll be on.

You claim to condemn violence, but reading between the lines, I think your non-coercive methods of taking from others would turn to violence pretty fast.

Let me guess, violence is justified when the poor do it towards the rich?

[TimeWatch]

Money in mind changes a lot of things, your attitude, your behavior. It happened to me as well. Don't worry its normal, get over it.

[BitcoinBadger]

I think you are too much worried about money, step outside, and use/spend it too

Enjoy life buddy.

[botany]

So what would you do if we refuse to give up our property to you?

Until there are no more starving people on this continent, every strip mall should be bulldozed and every parking lot torn up so food can be grown. This should be done whether the capitalist "owners" like it or not, because, you know, people are fucking starving.

Would this applicable to your house as well? You too are occupying space which could be used to feed starving people.

[ariyaromadhona]

Is this what bitcoin is finally

1) A currency
2) An asset
3) An ideology Manipulator

3 , An Ideology Manipulator , Because it already brainwash people 

[bigtimespaghetti]

So what would you do if we refuse to give up our property to you?

You don't own the property, and neither do I. You have the illusion of ownership because you have control over it. You have control over it because some men with guns will kill for you if you show them a paper. Control enforced through systematic violence, that's the reality of capitalism. The only reality.

Everything else is in your head. You still don't get it, your cup is too full. The point is compassion. This isn't rocket surgery.

Until there are no more starving people on this continent, every strip mall should be bulldozed and every parking lot torn up so food can be grown. This should be done whether the capitalist "owners" like it or not, because, you know, people are fucking starving.

Fuck your property. People are dying so some rich assholes can get a little richer. Your system is disgusting. There may come a time when a mob of hungry people must face off against some capitalist and his hired thugs... well we know which side of that fight you'll be on, and we know which side I'll be on.

Beli... Please take a while to examine the reasons that people are starving... It is often down to states interference, ignorance or brainwashing. You cannot undo all the evils alone with pure compassion. The evil capitalism that you despise has done more to alleviate poverty and pain than any revolutionary ideal based upon wealth distribution in all human history, this all without truly free markets too I might add.

It is possible to be a bleeding heart libertarian. Force and control never result in desires outcomes.

[forevernoob]

Until there are no more starving people on this continent, every strip mall should be bulldozed and every parking lot torn up so food can be grown. This should be done whether the capitalist "owners" like it or not, because, you know, people are fucking starving.

Fuck your property. People are dying so some rich assholes can get a little richer. Your system is disgusting. There may come a time when a mob of hungry people must face off against some capitalist and his hired thugs... well we know which side of that fight you'll be on, and we know which side I'll be on.

You are letting your hatred for the rich cloud your judgment. What you are suggesting would cause pain and suffering for millions.
It's nothing new and it has already been tried before and usually ends with the cycle starting over again and new people seize control over the masses.
Violence is not a very good solution to a problem.

Let me instead show you how capitalism can remove starvation and poverty:

1. Wealth is not bad. The state and fiat money is.

Since we are on a bitcoin forum I'm not gonna explain how inflation works.
But in short it makes people lose purchasing power.
Now imagine if the world used BTC instead. Imagine it's the year 2150 and we have 21 million in circulation.
Scrooge McDuck owns 50% of the worlds bitcoin. The rest of the world 50%. Now what would happen if Scrooge gave half his BTC to Donald Duck?

As we all know Donald is a big spender and would probably spend his BTC or a lot of it. Since 25% is a lot of BTC the market would adjust and people would actually lose purchasing power since more BTC enters the market.

So people holding money are not bad for the poor people.

Of course not everyone is like Scrooge, some wealthy people like to invest so they can make more money. They invest to create jobs.


2. Capitalism is not bad, governments are.

Why does starvation and poverty exist?
These problems are mostly concentrated to the third world.
They exist because foreign countries and foreign corporations exploit these countries.
The big corporations buy themselves into these countries and exploit all theirs resources by making pacts with the local governments.

Most of the third world countries have extremely corrupt governments, even more than some we have in the West.

If we had a free market instead, the people of these countries could either create their own corporations or make better deals with the foreign ones.

[itsAj]

So what would you do if we refuse to give up our property to you?

You don't own the property, and neither do I. You have the illusion of ownership because you have control over it. You have control over it because some men with guns will kill for you if you show them a paper. Control enforced through systematic violence, that's the reality of capitalism. The only reality.

huh?  even in socialist or communist countries you can't just take people's personal property, and there's still cops who will generally maintain the rule of law.  This kind of post just makes you sound like a fanatic.

Also you are using intellectual abstractions to avoid a simple question here. Try to answer the question in the context of the commonly understood idea of property.  I bet you won't. 

I think he is referring to the taxes that can eat away at your property (sometimes substantially) and the possibility that your property can be taken from you due to non-payment of taxes. 

[jonald_fyookball]

So what would you do if we refuse to give up our property to you?

You don't own the property, and neither do I. You have the illusion of ownership because you have control over it. You have control over it because some men with guns will kill for you if you show them a paper. Control enforced through systematic violence, that's the reality of capitalism. The only reality.

huh?  even in socialist or communist countries you can't just take people's personal property, and there's still cops who will generally maintain the rule of law.  This kind of post just makes you sound like a fanatic.

Also you are using intellectual abstractions to avoid a simple question here. Try to answer the question in the context of the commonly understood idea of property.  I bet you won't. 

I think he is referring to the taxes that can eat away at your property (sometimes substantially) and the possibility that your property can be taken from you due to non-payment of taxes. 

no, he isn't.  he has expressed many times he isn't talking just about real estate. he doesn't believe in personal property of any kind, even his own bitcoins.

[itsAj]

So what would you do if we refuse to give up our property to you?

You don't own the property, and neither do I. You have the illusion of ownership because you have control over it. You have control over it because some men with guns will kill for you if you show them a paper. Control enforced through systematic violence, that's the reality of capitalism. The only reality.

huh?  even in socialist or communist countries you can't just take people's personal property, and there's still cops who will generally maintain the rule of law.  This kind of post just makes you sound like a fanatic.

Also you are using intellectual abstractions to avoid a simple question here. Try to answer the question in the context of the commonly understood idea of property.  I bet you won't. 

I think he is referring to the taxes that can eat away at your property (sometimes substantially) and the possibility that your property can be taken from you due to non-payment of taxes. 

no, he isn't.  he has expressed many times he isn't talking just about real estate. he doesn't believe in personal property of any kind, even his own bitcoins.

Well the government does believe in personal property and will tax accordingly. Real estate is not the only type of personal property that can/is taxed by the government.