bitcoin changing my ideology from socialism to libertarianism! What about you?

[Beliathon]

No way all the 7 billion will act in the interest of the collective and now way all 7 billion will act selfish..about 5% should be altruistic which is the best outcome for survival of the genes..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altruism_%28biology%29#Biological_market_theory

By your argument, only 1 in 20 people would risk themselves during a disaster to rescue a trapped person. History begs to differ.

Study the history of disaster responses - strangers risking themselves to help strangers - and try to find a way to fit that reality with this absurdly fundamentalist "biological market theory" of yours.

Try to explain this http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org, with your "biological market theory".

Ongoing research on the recently discovered mirror neurons among most mammals - including humans, horses, dogs, chimps, and probably dolphins and elephants as well (pending further research) - strongly indicates that most mammels are neuro-biologically wired for empathy and compassion.

There is no "marketplace" activity happening here in the Mammalian Class. There is no competition. We give our empathy freely, as nature has designed us to do so. Cooperation and mutual aid, it turns out, are evolutionary advantageous in a dangerous world.

[1714114382]

1714114382

[The One]

Socialism, Libertarianism, Communist, Anarchist, Capitalist, right wing, left wing, centre left wing, centre right wing, and so on.

They are all labels, for those who stopped evolving.

The One IS always evolving and now exist on a higher plane of evolution compared to others.

Mental boxes that humans put themselves in with a label or 2, IS an example of a lower evolved human. Someone in a box comes up with an idea and others in another box screamed, "racist", "wrong", "not equal", and so on.....just because that someone just happened to be in another box. How so retarded. No intellectual debate IS permissible in a calm manner of logic, reasoning and basic natural rights that all humans are born with. There's so much screaming idiots waving banners and placards demanding this and that. Many live in a state of permanent illusion that politicians are their saviours and could do no wrong. These lower evolved humans ought to be ignored.

The One has no time for mental boxes with labels. The One is simply water.

"Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. That water can flow, or it can crash. Be water my friend."

[Beliathon]

Socialism, Libertarianism, Communist, Anarchist, Capitalist, right wing, left wing, centre left wing, centre right wing, and so on.

They are all labels, for those who stopped evolving.

"Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."

&

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do."
- Robert A. Heinlein

[cuddaloreappu]

No way all the 7 billion will act in the interest of the collective and now way all 7 billion will act selfish..about 5% should be altruistic which is the best outcome for survival of the genes..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altruism_%28biology%29#Biological_market_theory

By your argument, only 1 in 20 people would risk themselves during a disaster to rescue a trapped person. History begs to differ.

Study the history of disaster responses - strangers risking themselves to help strangers - and try to find a way to fit that reality with this absurdly fundamentalist "biological market theory" of yours.

Try to explain this http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org, with your "biological market theory".

Ongoing research on the recently discovered mirror neurons among most mammals - including humans, horses, dogs, chimps, and probably dolphins and elephants as well (pending further research) - strongly indicates that most mammels are neuro-biologically wired for empathy and compassion.

There is no "marketplace" activity happening here in the Mammalian Class. There is no competition. We give our empathy freely, as nature has designed us to do so. Cooperation and mutual aid, it turns out, are evolutionary advantageous in a dangerous world.

mirror neurons?..like the communist movie avatar

[cuddaloreappu]

No way all the 7 billion will act in the interest of the collective and now way all 7 billion will act selfish..about 5% should be altruistic which is the best outcome for survival of the genes..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altruism_%28biology%29#Biological_market_theory

By your argument, only 1 in 20 people would risk themselves during a disaster to rescue a trapped person. History begs to differ.

Study the history of disaster responses - strangers risking themselves to help strangers - and try to find a way to fit that reality with this absurdly fundamentalist "biological market theory" of yours.

Try to explain this http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org, with your "biological market theory".

Ongoing research on the recently discovered mirror neurons among most mammals - including humans, horses, dogs, chimps, and probably dolphins and elephants as well (pending further research) - strongly indicates that most mammels are neuro-biologically wired for empathy and compassion.

There is no "marketplace" activity happening here in the Mammalian Class. There is no competition. We give our empathy freely, as nature has designed us to do so. Cooperation and mutual aid, it turns out, are evolutionary advantageous in a dangerous world.

mirror neurons?..like the communist movie avatar

[Beliathon]

mirror neurons?..like the communist movie avatar

Mirror neurons, like the indisputable scientific proof that higher-order mammals are neuro-biologically wired for empathy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_neuron#Empathy

Keep fighting for ignorance with your one-liner platitudes and empty cinema-based conspiracy theory arguments, though. You're doing great.

[cuddaloreappu]

mirror neurons?..like the communist movie avatar

Mirror neurons, like the indisputable scientific proof that higher-order mammals are neuro-biologically wired for empathy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_neuron#Empathy

Keep fighting for ignorance with your one-liner platitudes and empty cinema-based conspiracy theory arguments, though. You're doing great.

From the same wiki article..

Despite the excitement generated by these findings, to date, no widely accepted neural or computational models have been put forward to describe how mirror neuron activity supports cognitive functions such as imitation.[14] There are neuroscientists who caution that the claims being made for the role of mirror neurons are not supported by adequate research.[15][16]

anyway I don't completely refute mirror neuron, and for Christ sake..that avatar reference was a  joke..so much you label people idiot.

[cuddaloreappu]

and how does existence of mirror neuron make us a empathetic and altruistic  species?

[forevernoob]

Socialism, Libertarianism, Communist, Anarchist, Capitalist, right wing, left wing, centre left wing, centre right wing, and so on.

They are all labels, for those who stopped evolving.

The One IS always evolving and now exist on a higher plane of evolution compared to others.

Mental boxes that humans put themselves in with a label or 2, IS an example of a lower evolved human. Someone in a box comes up with an idea and others in another box screamed, "racist", "wrong", "not equal", and so on.....just because that someone just happened to be in another box. How so retarded. No intellectual debate IS permissible in a calm manner of logic, reasoning and basic natural rights that all humans are born with. There's so much screaming idiots waving banners and placards demanding this and that. Many live in a state of permanent illusion that politicians are their saviours and could do no wrong. These lower evolved humans ought to be ignored.

The One has no time for mental boxes with labels. The One is simply water.

"Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. That water can flow, or it can crash. Be water my friend."

Labels for those who have stopped evolving? What do you suggest we evolve to?
They are words that describe different views of people.

I am very interested in what your ideology is and how you describe it.
You can't just say: "If you are a follower of a ideology you are stupid!" and then not mention a alternative.

[cuddaloreappu]

Just watched this movie recently and how it is annoyingly socialistic..



Here is an excellent critique of the movie and socialism in genral

http://thefineartdiner.blogspot.in/2012/11/creating-unnatural-natural-order-cloud.html

[The One]

Socialism, Libertarianism, Communist, Anarchist, Capitalist, right wing, left wing, centre left wing, centre right wing, and so on.

They are all labels, for those who stopped evolving.

The One IS always evolving and now exist on a higher plane of evolution compared to others.

Mental boxes that humans put themselves in with a label or 2, IS an example of a lower evolved human. Someone in a box comes up with an idea and others in another box screamed, "racist", "wrong", "not equal", and so on.....just because that someone just happened to be in another box. How so retarded. No intellectual debate IS permissible in a calm manner of logic, reasoning and basic natural rights that all humans are born with. There's so much screaming idiots waving banners and placards demanding this and that. Many live in a state of permanent illusion that politicians are their saviours and could do no wrong. These lower evolved humans ought to be ignored.

The One has no time for mental boxes with labels. The One is simply water.

"Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. That water can flow, or it can crash. Be water my friend."

Labels for those who have stopped evolving? What do you suggest we evolve to?
They are words that describe different views of people.

I am very interested in what your ideology is and how you describe it.
You can't just say: "If you are a follower of a ideology you are stupid!" and then not mention a alternative.

Evolve to a higher intellectual being, to see a human as a human without prejudice, understand the map is not the territory, the word is not the thing and live in peace.

Someone in a 'mental state of water' has no ideology. One exist as human that has natural laws and do no harm to others.

[forevernoob]

Evolve to a higher intellectual being, to see a human as a human without prejudice, understand the map is not the territory, the word is not the thing and live in peace.

Someone in a 'mental state of water' has no ideology. One exist as human that has natural laws and do no harm to others.

Actually it doesn't matter if a person has "a mental state of water" the person probably still have views and opinions.
If the person has views and opinions we can place him/her in a ideology.

[rugrats]

Evolve to a higher intellectual being, to see a human as a human without prejudice, understand the map is not the territory, the word is not the thing and live in peace.

Someone in a 'mental state of water' has no ideology. One exist as human that has natural laws and do no harm to others.

Actually it doesn't matter if a person has "a mental state of water" the person probably still have views and opinions.
If the person has views and opinions we can place him/her in a ideology.

You can try, but I'd like to think most of us have beliefs, opinions and values that transcend conveniently boxed labels.
Heck, even dogmatic religious fundamentalists are hard to pin down ideologically.

[cuddaloreappu]

A simple explanation of Socialism corrupts the society and turns it into failure but libertarianism progresses the society to greater heights!

The fundamental assumption of socialism is that as humans we are all indebted to one another and need to care for the society as a whole, which comes out of ALTRUISM i.e the collective society is more important than the selfish individual.

But the question one needs to ask  is this "is the trait of altruism found in each and every individual?"

If yes, then  socialism is the best system but in reality look at the world around you and think again?

Do we live in a world where you find altruism in every individual you come across? Just imagine your office? I can hear you saying a big No

The evolutionary biologist Sir Richard Dawkins explains the tussle between selfishness and altruism is one the greatest tussle  in history of evolution where both of them are favored in different circumstances


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP6CaQOYJHI&feature=player_detailpage#t=193

Okay can we then ask what percentage of society will be selfish and what percentage will be altruistic?

my take is approximately selfishness-85% and altruistic- 15% in any given society.

So we need a economic model which is based on the selfish needs of the individual to acquire wealth, which is obviously free market capitalism!

Problem arises when you bring in big government into this free markets in the name of socialism, as the great economist of all time Milton friedman puts it "if there is more government , it just helps the industrialist"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=FOMI0ORGH44#t=189


They become hand in hand with government and thus protect their monopoly and at the same time the society becomes socialistic for the middle and lower class! Draconian tax and regulations are created in every field so that innovations does not exist and competition does not arise!

All the young individuals become highly debt with student loans and cheap workforce..

This is the world I believe we a living in, and in order the undo the situation all we have to do is the fight against these forces of socialism and embrace libertarianism and free markets.

[The One]

Evolve to a higher intellectual being, to see a human as a human without prejudice, understand the map is not the territory, the word is not the thing and live in peace.

Someone in a 'mental state of water' has no ideology. One exist as human that has natural laws and do no harm to others.

Actually it doesn't matter if a person has "a mental state of water" the person probably still have views and opinions.
If the person has views and opinions we can place him/her in a ideology.

Everyone has their own opinions and views. You can have 500 and what are the odds that 2 people or more will have exactly the same 500?

My views and opinions are my own, i do not require it to be under the word 'ideology' as i do not seek to imposed it on others.

[forevernoob]

You can try, but I'd like to think most of us have beliefs, opinions and values that transcend conveniently boxed labels.
Heck, even dogmatic religious fundamentalists are hard to pin down ideologically.

It's naive to think that you somehow have ideas and opinions that are not covered by the ideology spectrum.
I bet you have a opinion on taxation.

Do you want limited taxation? Then you are a social liberal. Do you want no taxation at all? Then you are a libertarian.

It is however possible to have ideas that mixes several ideologies. Thats why we have mixes like social liberalism.

Everyone has their own opinions and views. You can have 500 and what are the odds that 2 people or more will have exactly the same 500?

My views and opinions are my own, i do not require it to be under the word 'ideology' as i do not seek to imposed it on others.

If you don't want your views to be imposed on others I would say you are a Anarchist, which is a ideology.

[Some1else0]

I've personally always believed in the libertarianist side and never really liked socialism. That's part of the reason why Bitcoin piqued my interests a few years ago.

[cuddaloreappu]

I've personally always believed in the libertarianist side and never really liked socialism. That's part of the reason why Bitcoin piqued my interests a few years ago.

see how your ideology rewards you... you are given golden opportunities cheap(early btc adoption) for being a libertarian.. but what would a socialist get?... maybe free food coupons.

[rugrats]

You can try, but I'd like to think most of us have beliefs, opinions and values that transcend conveniently boxed labels.
Heck, even dogmatic religious fundamentalists are hard to pin down ideologically.

It's naive to think that you somehow have ideas and opinions that are not covered by the ideology spectrum.
I bet you have a opinion on taxation.

Do you want limited taxation? Then you are a social liberal. Do you want no taxation at all? Then you are a libertarian.

It is however possible to have ideas that mixes several ideologies. Thats why we have mixes like social liberalism.

Actually, it is perfectly logical to assume that my "ideas and opinions" are not constrained within specific categories determine by a only few of variables, reminiscent of the personality or sex quizzes found in Cleo or Cosmo.

And just for the record, it is naive, not to mention dangerous, to think that all libertarians share the same views concerning taxation.
Do you think David Nolan, the founder of the U.S. Libertarian Party, is a social liberal (?), considering he believes that not all taxes are deleterious, and is actually in favor of land tax?
What about the geolibertarian community as a whole, which believe that all natural resources should be taxed? Are they not libertarians?
Let's not forget the green libertarians, whose wants corporations to be taxed based on their impact to the ecosystem - consumption of natural resources, pollution, usage of public utilities, etc.
Even Ron Paul, flagbearer of the anti-taxation paleolibertarian movement and mouthpiece of Lew Rockwell, is supportive of excise, consumption and national sales taxes.

Labels are for census takers and political bodies. There exists no hard lines in the sand, only a wildly diverging and fluid spectrum.
Take a look at a variation of the Vosem Chart below, derived from the Pournelle chart.
As soon as you begin to realize the complex spectrum of beliefs that we could potentially inhabit, consider that the chart are also limited, only capturing a facet of our thinking.
And then, compared the ideologies of political parties from different geographic regions. For instance, the leftist ideology as defined in American politics inhabits a remarkably similar spectrum as those of center-right Europe.

[forevernoob]

Actually, it is perfectly logical to assume that my "ideas and opinions" are not constrained within specific categories determine by a only few of variables, reminiscent of the personality or sex quizzes found in Cleo or Cosmo.

And just for the record, it is naive, not to mention dangerous, to think that all libertarians share the same views concerning taxation.
Do you think David Nolan, the founder of the U.S. Libertarian Party, is a social liberal (?), considering he believes that not all taxes are deleterious, and is actually in favor of land tax?
What about the geolibertarian community as a whole, which believe that all natural resources should be taxed? Are they not libertarians?
Let's not forget the green libertarians, whose wants corporations to be taxed based on their impact to the ecosystem - consumption of natural resources, pollution, usage of public utilities, etc.
Even Ron Paul, flagbearer of the anti-taxation paleolibertarian movement and mouthpiece of Lew Rockwell, is supportive of excise, consumption and national sales taxes.

Not all libertarians have the same view on taxation that is true. But thats because within the libertarian movement there is several underlying political philosophies.
Most people in the movement (including the people you just mentioned) I would label "minarchists" because they want limited government.
Another group of the movement are the "anarchists" they want no government at all.
It's important to know the difference between anarchists and minarchists since they want completely different things. Even though both groups call themselves "libertarians" they are based on different political philosophies.

I think it's dangerous not to use labels when you describe peoples views. Just look at Rand Paul, he says he's a libertarian but in reality he's more of a conservative.

Labels are for census takers and political bodies. There exists no hard lines in the sand, only a wildly diverging and fluid spectrum.
Take a look at a variation of the Vosem Chart below, derived from the Pournelle chart.

Yes of course charts are always going to be limited but that doesn't mean we cannot identify which ideologies our views fit in.
Instead of looking through charts you should study the ideas and opinions of these politicians and see where they fit in.
Most of the time politicians want you to believe they are not part of "left" and "right" so they can get more votes.

As soon as you begin to realize the complex spectrum of beliefs that we could potentially inhabit, consider that the chart are also limited, only capturing a facet of our thinking.
And then, compared the ideologies of political parties from different geographic regions. For instance, the leftist ideology as defined in American politics inhabits a remarkably similar spectrum as those of center-right Europe.

It's not surprising that what Americans believe are "leftist" ideas are considered "center-right" in Europe.
That's because the US has a history of limited government and Europe have a history of social democracy.