bitcoin changing my ideology from socialism to libertarianism! What about you?

[jonald_fyookball]

Poverty affects children more than any other age group here in America. We have tremendous wealth here yet we let innocent children go hungry, particularly in the south, where fundamentalist thinking and religion are strongest. What does that say about capitalism?
 

And 50 million people died of starvation under Mao's communism.
What does that say about the alternatives to capitalism?

Will you please just give it a rest dude? 

Call me when you've figured out "the next paradigm"
that will end world hunger and save the world.

[Beliathon]

And 50 million people died of starvation under Mao's communism.
What does that say about the alternatives to capitalism?

It only says that you're looking backwards 50 years in time for solutions instead of looking forwards.  It also says that your mind is closed on this matter.

Mao's great leap forward led to millions starving, yes, that's true. Meanwhile in America, police dogs were being unleashed upon unarmed african americans who were marching for equality.



Social evolution only progresses forward through time, not backwards. Consider listening to Russell Brand for a minute or five. 10 million others already have.

Will you please just give it a rest dude?

"Quiet down, serf! You're upsetting the masters! Why can't you just accept your place as an unthinking wage-slave like the rest of us?"

[BADecker]

Poverty affects children more than any other age group here in America. We have tremendous wealth here yet we let innocent children go hungry, particularly in the south, where fundamentalist thinking and religion are strongest. What does that say about capitalism?
 

And 50 million people died of starvation under Mao's communism.
What does that say about the alternatives to capitalism?

Will you please just give it a rest dude?  

Call me when you've figured out "the next paradigm"
that will end world hunger and save the world.

Aw, let him talk. He hasn't even mentioned the 50 to 55 million American children who have died through abortion, as a result of the moral poverty and/or the physical poverty of their parents and others associated with each specific situation.

[forevernoob]

a bunch of big images..

A reallly big image

Although I'll take your numbers with a grain of salt, I agree it's sickening how inequality has grown in the last few years.
But I think the reason is increased government intervention.

And BTW how many children died of starvation last year in America? It seems like you forgot to mention that.

And instead of watching celebrities on YouTube talk about revolutions how about reading some economics?

[practicaldreamer]

And BTW how many children died of starvation last year in America? It seems like you forgot to mention that.

And instead of watching celebrities on YouTube talk about revolutions how about reading some economics?

LOL - hey, you are an absolutely fuckin brilliant foil forevernob 

Keep up the good work - great spectacle 

[jonald_fyookball]

And 50 million people died of starvation under Mao's communism.
What does that say about the alternatives to capitalism?

It only says that you're looking backwards 50 years in time for solutions instead of looking forwards.  It also says that your mind is closed on this matter.

No, it simply is one good example that alternatives to capitalism
fail.  To the extent they go against free trade, they fail.  The
greatest amount of freedom was found in early america, which
is why it boomed and became the super power it is.   As
the USA became increasingly socialistic, it started to decline.
Communism is even farther on the wrong side of the scale,
and every communistic society (China, Russia, Cuba) has
the results to show for it.  China now is rising to the
extent the free market is allowed to flourish.

Will you please just give it a rest dude?

"Quiet down, serf! You're upsetting the masters! Why can't you just accept your place as an unthinking wage-slave like the rest of us?"

No, i'm telling you shut up already because
its impossible to provide a better alternative
to capitalism.  Clearly you would have done
so already if you could.

The "masters" (if by masters you mean
parasitical elites) don't want free markets.
(Free markets are synonymous with capitalism.)

Elites don't want that.  They want control,
politically-based business dynamics, central
banking, and corporatism.

As for forward thinking...

Like I said, tell me when you figure out the
next paradigm.  But you simply raging against the
machine is convincing no one and accomplishing
nothing.

[Beliathon]

I'm telling you shut up already because its impossible to provide a better alternative to capitalism.

LOL. "Ours is the one true way, no other way is possible!" This, children, is what fundamentalist thinking looks like. Do you see the parallels here between religious and economic fundamentalism?

One of these days you libertards will figure out that I'm not actually debating you for your sake, or for mine. You economic fundamentalists are - like religious fundamentalists - tragically beyond my help. Your indoctrination goes far too deep. You cannot unlearn those lies now, it's too painful for your fragile ego.

I'm debating you for the sake of all the silent readers out there, present and future. Those capable of thinking beyond the narrow constraints of your schooling-brainwashed minds.

Once again, I'll leave you with the historical facts you continue to ignore:

"Before capitalism, there were other ways. Feudalism was what existed in Europe for a thousand years before we had modern capitalism. And before that, slavery - yet another system - another way of organizing who does the work and who gets the profits and so on. And the interesting thing is that every other system that we have a record of in the human race, was born, evolved over time, and eventually passed away. What always has intrigued me, is the need for those people living in capitalism today, to think it's going to be the great exception. It was born, basically in England 300 years ago, it has evolved over the last three centuries. But when you say, "yes, but that means it will also pass away and give rise to another system", people get all kinds of strange worries because they don't want to think about that.

And so they begin to imagine that this system [capitalism] will be forever, in a way no other system in history has proved itself to be."
-Dr. Richard Wolff

[shawshankinmate37927]

Capitalism cannot exist without systemic, mass-scale violence. Ergo, any person who wants to live in a world governed by reason musit be opposed to capitalism.

Bullshit.  Capitalism is the only economic system that can succeed without fraud or initiating the use of force.  Voluntary trade between free individuals would lead to an incredibly prospeous society.  Thankfully, Bitcoin will move us closer to that ideal.

Capitalism without force? Capitalism without fraud? Bullshit indeed! Thank you for prefacing your statement with that honest qualifier!

Please tell me when and where in history EITHER of those two scenarios has existed anywhere other than your imagination. I'd sure love to hear about this mythical capitalist utopia... Maybe I can visit?

Free market capitalism hasn't been tried yet.  However, history is replete with examples of how communism, socialism, fascism, and cronyism all inevitably fail.  With the separation of money and state that Bitcoin achieves, true free market capitalism may finally have a chance.

[Beliathon]

Free market capitalism hasn't been tried yet.

[jonald_fyookball]

I'm telling you shut up already because its impossible to provide a better alternative to capitalism.

LOL. "Ours is the one true way, no other way is possible!" This, children, is what fundamentalist thinking looks like. Do you see the parallels here between religious and economic fundamentalism?

One of these days you libertards will figure out that I'm not actually debating you for your sake, or for mine. You economic fundamentalists are - like religious fundamentalists - tragically beyond my help. Your indoctrination goes far too deep. You cannot unlearn those lies now, it's too painful for your fragile ego.

I'm debating you for the sake of all the silent readers out there, present and future. Those capable of thinking beyond the narrow constraints of your schooling-brainwashed minds.

Once again, I'll leave you with the historical facts you continue to ignore:

"Before capitalism, there were other ways. Feudalism was what existed in Europe for a thousand years before we had modern capitalism. And before that, slavery - yet another system - another way of organizing who does the work and who gets the profits and so on. And the interesting thing is that every other system that we have a record of in the human race, was born, evolved over time, and eventually passed away. What always has intrigued me, is the need for those people living in capitalism today, to think it's going to be the great exception. It was born, basically in England 300 years ago, it has evolved over the last three centuries. But when you say, "yes, but that means it will also pass away and give rise to another system", people get all kinds of strange worries because they don't want to think about that.

And so they begin to imagine that this system [capitalism] will be forever, in a way no other system in history has proved itself to be."
-Dr. Richard Wolff

yawn. call me when there's something better than individuals and companies interacting freely in the marketplace without government involvement.

[BitcoinBettor]

Anarchist to Crypto-Anarchist!

[Satan666]

LOL. "Ours is the one true way, no other way is possible!" This, children, is what fundamentalist thinking looks like. Do you see the parallels here between religious and economic fundamentalism?

One of these days you libertards will figure out that I'm not actually debating you for your sake, or for mine. You economic fundamentalists are - like religious fundamentalists - tragically beyond my help. Your indoctrination goes far too deep. You cannot unlearn those lies now, it's too painful for your fragile ego.

You're confused my brother. Like the religious fanatics with their religious ideology, we are the ones that must impose our economic ideology on everyone. Socialism for all, whether they believe in it or not.  We know what is best for the masses. 

I'm debating you for the sake of all the silent readers out there, present and future. Those capable of thinking beyond the narrow constraints of your schooling-brainwashed minds.

Now that's more like it. Well said, my faithful servant. However, your support of Bitcoin is misguided.  We will not be able to impose our beloved socialism on these evil, libertard, greedy, capitalist, idiots with Bitcoin. Bitcoin is evil!

[Beliathon]

Now that's more like it. Well said, my faithful servant.

Oh hello Satan!

[WeltMaster]

yeah ever since I got involved with bitcoins... my ideology is slowly changing from

being  pro socialism to pro libertarianism...

I now feel happy and liberated when I think about the pleasures of personal wealth..

are you having such changes?

The path between socialism and libertarianism, or at least the path between good socialism and good libertarianism, is not as long and weird as one may think.

I am a libertarian at heart, yet I often support policies that one may categorize as "socialist," like BIG (Basic Income Guarantee). I support these policies not despite of, but rather because of my libertarian ideas: I value self-ownership, autonomy, and personal freedom for everyone, and I think personal freedom must include the freedom to eat and have a modest but decent quality of life. I am against both Big Capital and Big Government, and I think Bitcoin can be a powerful weapon against both.

How can you support the Basic Income Guarantee if you also are against Big Government.

You can't have one without the other.

This is the problem with socialism, one day they run out of other peoples money.

[Beliathon]

This is the problem with socialism, one day they run out of other peoples money.

Yes, we should instead continue concentrating all the money into the hands of the wealthiest 0.5%, that's been working out great for us so far.

[jonald_fyookball]

yeah ever since I got involved with bitcoins... my ideology is slowly changing from

being  pro socialism to pro libertarianism...

I now feel happy and liberated when I think about the pleasures of personal wealth..

are you having such changes?

The path between socialism and libertarianism, or at least the path between good socialism and good libertarianism, is not as long and weird as one may think.

I am a libertarian at heart, yet I often support policies that one may categorize as "socialist," like BIG (Basic Income Guarantee). I support these policies not despite of, but rather because of my libertarian ideas: I value self-ownership, autonomy, and personal freedom for everyone, and I think personal freedom must include the freedom to eat and have a modest but decent quality of life. I am against both Big Capital and Big Government, and I think Bitcoin can be a powerful weapon against both.

How can you support the Basic Income Guarantee if you also are against Big Government.

You can't have one without the other.

This is the problem with socialism, one day they run out of other peoples money.

Is there really any difference "BIG" and welfare?  Seems like the same concept.

[Beliathon]

Is there really any difference "BIG" and welfare?  Seems like the same concept.

The "G" in BIG stands for "guarantee". Welfare is in no way guaranteed, and state governments make recipients jump through dozens of annoying hoops as a strategy for "thinning out" the number of needy folks they have to support. It's rather cruel.

Go to any foodstamps office in a major city and check out the lines. It's like the Great Depression all over again inside those places.  

Source: I have worked at a foodstamps office

[genjix]

"Socialism is a social and economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy"

"Libertarianism (Latin: liber, "free") is a political philosophy that upholds liberty as its principal objective. Libertarians seek to maximize autonomy and freedom of choice, emphasizing political freedom, voluntary association and the primacy of individual judgment."

Socialism and libertarianism are not necessarily opposites. That's the problem with arguing about these ideological dogmas that place people into separating boxes. Start thinking what the values we want to promote are, and develop a deeper political philosophy. These labels are not addressing the root causes. From Wikipedia article on Anarchism:

"As a subtle and anti-dogmatic philosophy, anarchism draws on many currents of thought and strategy. Anarchism does not offer a fixed body of doctrine from a single particular world view, instead fluxing and flowing as a philosophy. There are many types and traditions of anarchism, not all of which are mutually exclusive."

Freedom starts with "I am my own master" but ends before "I am slave to no man". Liberty is the possession of agency, the power to fulfil your own potential. It's important in this modern day and age of mass criminalisation, and of stolen liberties, to understand that the only path to preservation of spirit is through preservation of action.

To preserve our human spirit, we must look not to surrogate father figures, or the great grand institutions but instead to each other, directly from one humble person to another. The Darkness becomes our protective cloak for this nascent perspective.

[RomertL]

Since kid, instinctively I have always felt the right to private property and  there is nothing wrong in amassing wealth.

But somewhere down the line, I was fooled by pseudo altruistic politicians into buying their ideologies which included socialism.. there were days  I believed wealth is evil...



Ever since I got involved with bitcoins... my ideology is slowly changing back from being  pro Socialism to pro Libertarianism...



regretting every minute with tears...

But feel happy and Liberated when I think about the pleasures of Personal wealth..Going to amass wealth.

Its like returning  back to your instincts and that truly feels liberated.

Are you having such changes?

I started off as libertarian, but Bitcoin made me call myself anarkist (anarcho-capitalist, volynteryist). Well, a guy called Stefan Molyneux helped a lot too, but I discovered him through Bitcoin in the epic speach Bitcoin vs political power. That was the sparkle

[cuddaloreappu]

"Socialism is a social and economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy"

"Libertarianism (Latin: liber, "free") is a political philosophy that upholds liberty as its principal objective. Libertarians seek to maximize autonomy and freedom of choice, emphasizing political freedom, voluntary association and the primacy of individual judgment."

Socialism and libertarianism are not necessarily opposites. That's the problem with arguing about these ideological dogmas that place people into separating boxes. Start thinking what the values we want to promote are, and develop a deeper political philosophy. These labels are not addressing the root causes. From Wikipedia article on Anarchism:

"As a subtle and anti-dogmatic philosophy, anarchism draws on many currents of thought and strategy. Anarchism does not offer a fixed body of doctrine from a single particular world view, instead fluxing and flowing as a philosophy. There are many types and traditions of anarchism, not all of which are mutually exclusive."

Freedom starts with "I am my own master" but ends before "I am slave to no man". Liberty is the possession of agency, the power to fulfil your own potential. It's important in this modern day and age of mass criminalisation, and of stolen liberties, to understand that the only path to preservation of spirit is through preservation of action.

To preserve our human spirit, we must look not to surrogate father figures, or the great grand institutions but instead to each other, directly from one humble person to another. The Darkness becomes our protective cloak for this nascent perspective.

+1