Does God judge the nations?

[noviapriani]

Believing in the Buddha has really led those monks down the path of evil hasnt it?   Seriously  that may have been the dumbest thing you have ever said.  And in the long litany of  that has come off your keyboard there is some stiff competition for the  award.   I suppose you will be the first person to volunteer to put those evil bastards to death.

I suppose if one lived in your world, where reading comprehesion and integrity is optional.

By the way, still waiting for you answer here:

Are you saying that there is no criteria where one human can put another to death and it is not murder?

If there is criteria for when a person can take the life of another and it not be murder - then what is that criteria based on?

I dont really care about your irrelevent question about other instances where killing may or may not be murder.  We are talking about one specific situation....

The one specific situation we are discussigin is where a person has a different faith and is put to death, killed, murdered, terminated, etc. for simply having that different faith.   You can call it what you like but that is murder.

that is not what this topic is about, rigon.  Emotional responses have their place, but, should not be running the show.

[TheFootMan]

I am not trolling....and i asked myself those questions many times....but i choose to believe my religion....and as long as i don't harm others with my believe i don't see what is wrong with it.I don't judge you for saving the life of some animals and kill the others, i do the same,and probably makes me good and bad in the same time.I started this topic to see peoples opinion and to find answers to my questions.

I respect that people have religious views, although I do not share those views personally.

I never stated being religious is wrong, as in fact most religious people are good people, however it's the fanaticism I'm against, and killing in the name of a religion is wrong. I also think it's wrong when a religion governs the life or a person to such an extent that the person lives a poorer life (fear of damnation if doing anything wrong).

[Rigon]

Believing in the Buddha has really led those monks down the path of evil hasnt it?   Seriously  that may have been the dumbest thing you have ever said.  And in the long litany of  that has come off your keyboard there is some stiff competition for the  award.   I suppose you will be the first person to volunteer to put those evil bastards to death.

I suppose if one lived in your world, where reading comprehesion and integrity is optional.

By the way, still waiting for you answer here:

Are you saying that there is no criteria where one human can put another to death and it is not murder?

If there is criteria for when a person can take the life of another and it not be murder - then what is that criteria based on?

I dont really care about your irrelevent question about other instances where killing may or may not be murder.  We are talking about one specific situation....

The one specific situation we are discussigin is where a person has a different faith and is put to death, killed, murdered, terminated, etc. for simply having that different faith.   You can call it what you like but that is murder.

that is not what this topic is about, rigon.  Emotional responses have their place, but, should not be running the show.

The specific situation we are discussigin is where a person has a different faith and is put to death, killed, murdered, terminated, etc. for simply having that different faith (as god commanded Moses apparantly). You can call it what you like but that is murder.

[Rigon]

More accurately it's called, genocide.In the case of the Israelites murdering non-Israelites, some may prefer the term, "Ethnic Cleansing".

[TheFootMan]

The specific situation we are discussigin is where a person has a different faith and is put to death, killed, murdered, terminated, etc. for simply having that different faith (as god commanded Moses apparantly). You can call it what you like but that is murder.

I'm flabbergasted that in this time and age, some people are killing other people because they believe in a different fantasy-person than themselves. When I read such news, I feel that I'm looking into the dark ages of the history of some very primitive planet.

There is so much to be said about this. I do think lack of education has a very strong part of this. I find it hard to believe that a university educated person would still hold beliefs that a certain religion is superior to others, and thus the others needs to be killed. But on the other hand, I might be wrong, and some of those university educated people are even more dangerous as they will use their knowledge to manipulate others to follow their agenda.

People are people, no matter their makeup, and most people just want to live in peace.

[noviapriani]

More accurately it's called, genocide.In the case of the Israelites murdering non-Israelites, some may prefer the term, "Ethnic Cleansing".

Actually, if you read the account, it was not for having a 'different faith'.

But, lets go with your error and again ask - what determines that something is murder?  Some folks think aborting babies is murder - not all.  Some folk think the government executing murderers or rapists is murder - other folkd do not.

What makes your interpretation of murder the correct one?

[Rigon]

More accurately it's called, genocide.In the case of the Israelites murdering non-Israelites, some may prefer the term, "Ethnic Cleansing".

Actually, if you read the account, it was not for having a 'different faith'.

But, lets go with your error and again ask - what determines that something is murder?  Some folks think aborting babies is murder - not all.  Some folk think the government executing murderers or rapists is murder - other folkd do not.

What makes your interpretation of murder the correct one?

Believing in a different god is having a different faith.  Believing anything differently means having a different faith. It is not an error.  Deuteronomy says (God to Moses) kill people who worship other gods.  Worshiping other gods means your faith is different.  How many ways do I have to explain something so simple to you?

[noviapriani]

More accurately it's called, genocide.In the case of the Israelites murdering non-Israelites, some may prefer the term, "Ethnic Cleansing".

Actually, if you read the account, it was not for having a 'different faith'.

But, lets go with your error and again ask - what determines that something is murder?  Some folks think aborting babies is murder - not all.  Some folk think the government executing murderers or rapists is murder - other folkd do not.

What makes your interpretation of murder the correct one?

Believing in a different god is having a different faith.  Believing anything differently means having a different faith. It is not an error.  Deuteronomy says (God to Moses) kill people who worship other gods.  Worshiping other gods means your faith is different.  How many ways do I have to explain something so simple to you?

Ah, you are saying this is an objective truth that transcends what humans think?  Hmm, interesting.So, what is this source of absolute truth?

[Rigon]

Killing people for believing other things has always been murder.  It will always be murder no matter what people used to think.  It is also genocide.   We are not talking about capital punishment, we are not talking abortion...all interesting topics that you might want to start another thread about.  We are talking about a biblical command to put adult human beings to death for no other reason than they worship differently.  This is murder.

[noviapriani]

Killing people for believing other things has always been murder.  It will always be murder no matter what people used to think.  It is also genocide.   We are not talking about capital punishment, we are not talking abortion...all interesting topics that you might want to start another thread about.  We are talking about a biblical command to put adult human beings to death for no other reason than they worship differently.  This is murder.

We are talking about the nations  and the people destroyed, yes?

Look at the context.  You need to work on that.  There were nations with different faiths that God instructed Moses and Joshua to leave alone, for example.   What was different about the nations they met once they crossed the Jordon river?

If it was simply due to having a different faith, why were not Edom, Moab, etc, included?

And the nations who did worship other gods - what did that worship include?

[sana8410]

More accurately it's called, genocide.In the case of the Israelites murdering non-Israelites, some may prefer the term, "Ethnic Cleansing".

Actually, if you read the account, it was not for having a 'different faith'.

But, lets go with your error and again ask - what determines that something is murder?  Some folks think aborting babies is murder - not all.  Some folk think the government executing murderers or rapists is murder - other folkd do not.

What makes your interpretation of murder the correct one?

True.  If the nations the Israelites allegedly murdered had converted and worshiped the Hebrew "god", the Israelites would have murdered them anyway.


Is there a point to this? After all, it's just a fairy tale.

[noviapriani]

More accurately it's called, genocide.In the case of the Israelites murdering non-Israelites, some may prefer the term, "Ethnic Cleansing".

Actually, if you read the account, it was not for having a 'different faith'.

But, lets go with your error and again ask - what determines that something is murder?  Some folks think aborting babies is murder - not all.  Some folk think the government executing murderers or rapists is murder - other folkd do not.

What makes your interpretation of murder the correct one?

True.  If the nations the Israelites allegedly murdered had converted and worshiped the Hebrew "god", the Israelites would have murdered them anyway.


Is there a point to this? After all, it's just a fairy tale.

Again, not true, if one reads the history of the Israeli nation there, be it Joshua, or before or after (Samuel).

[RodeoX]

Oh, I thought we were talking about Mithra. What god are you guys on about? There are so many.

[Rigon]

Here's whats true......your God told Moses that people who worship other gods should be put to death...aka murdered.  Awesome God.

[TheFootMan]

But, lets go with your error and again ask - what determines that something is murder?

This has more of a pure academic cent to it.

There are edge cases where you could discuss whether something is murder or not. But in this discussion I think it's very clear. If some person is killed because he believes in a different fantasy-figure, or believes in no fantasy-figure at all, that's outright murder. If a group of such people is killed, it's genocide and a crime against humanity.

[TheFootMan]

Here's whats true......your God told Moses that people who worship other gods should be put to death...aka murdered.  Awesome God.

How do we know that this is true? Because it's in a book? Everything that's written in a book must be true, and esp. if that book is very old...

[sana8410]

More accurately it's called, genocide.In the case of the Israelites murdering non-Israelites, some may prefer the term, "Ethnic Cleansing".

Actually, if you read the account, it was not for having a 'different faith'.

But, lets go with your error and again ask - what determines that something is murder?  Some folks think aborting babies is murder - not all.  Some folk think the government executing murderers or rapists is murder - other folkd do not.

What makes your interpretation of murder the correct one?

True.  If the nations the Israelites allegedly murdered had converted and worshiped the Hebrew "god", the Israelites would have murdered them anyway.


Is there a point to this? After all, it's just a fairy tale.

Again, not true, if one reads the history of the Israeli nation there, be it Joshua, or before or after (Samuel).

The Hebrew "god" just ordered the Israelites to kill them, including women and children, and all their animals because their animals were "unclean".

It is no different than militant Muslims in the 21st century believing they are obeying their "god" by killing everyone who is not Muslim, except that Muslims will allow people the opportunity to convert to Islam and live as second-class citizens (slaves) to Muslims.

[noviapriani]

Here's whats true......your God told Moses that people who worship other gods should be put to death...aka murdered.  Awesome God.

Yes, though you purposely avoid the context in which that happens.But, in doing that, you have again admitted to the truth of Romans chapter 1, interestingly enough.

[noviapriani]

More accurately it's called, genocide.In the case of the Israelites murdering non-Israelites, some may prefer the term, "Ethnic Cleansing".

Actually, if you read the account, it was not for having a 'different faith'.

But, lets go with your error and again ask - what determines that something is murder?  Some folks think aborting babies is murder - not all.  Some folk think the government executing murderers or rapists is murder - other folkd do not.

What makes your interpretation of murder the correct one?

True.  If the nations the Israelites allegedly murdered had converted and worshiped the Hebrew "god", the Israelites would have murdered them anyway.


Is there a point to this? After all, it's just a fairy tale.

Again, not true, if one reads the history of the Israeli nation there, be it Joshua, or before or after (Samuel).

The Hebrew "god" just ordered the Israelites to kill them, including women and children, and all their animals because their animals were "unclean".

It is no different than militant Muslims in the 21st century believing they are obeying their "god" by killing everyone who is not Muslim, except that Muslims will allow people the opportunity to convert to Islam and live as second-class citizens (slaves) to Muslims.

Your objection makes no sense unless you are claiming that morals are absolutes.Which, deep inside, you do believe - the very thing Paul discusses in Romans chapter 1.

[sana8410]

More accurately it's called, genocide.In the case of the Israelites murdering non-Israelites, some may prefer the term, "Ethnic Cleansing".

Actually, if you read the account, it was not for having a 'different faith'.

But, lets go with your error and again ask - what determines that something is murder?  Some folks think aborting babies is murder - not all.  Some folk think the government executing murderers or rapists is murder - other folkd do not.

What makes your interpretation of murder the correct one?

True.  If the nations the Israelites allegedly murdered had converted and worshiped the Hebrew "god", the Israelites would have murdered them anyway.


Is there a point to this? After all, it's just a fairy tale.

Again, not true, if one reads the history of the Israeli nation there, be it Joshua, or before or after (Samuel).

The Hebrew "god" just ordered the Israelites to kill them, including women and children, and all their animals because their animals were "unclean".

It is no different than militant Muslims in the 21st century believing they are obeying their "god" by killing everyone who is not Muslim, except that Muslims will allow people the opportunity to convert to Islam and live as second-class citizens (slaves) to Muslims.

Your objection makes no sense unless you are claiming that morals are absolutes.Which, deep inside, you do believe - the very thing Paul discusses in Romans chapter 1.

Your objections make no sense because your objections are based upon your blind faith in superstitious beliefs and fairy tales, and we have long ago established the fact that you can't use one fairy tale to make another fairy tale real.
Remove your head from your ass, stop believing in fairy tale , and it makes perfect sense that you are simply attempting to rationalize and justify wholesale genocide.

You also have to consider the fact that the Exodus accounts are 100% pure fiction. The events, just like your Flood Myth and your childish Creation myths, are pure bullshit.  No culture or society would ever condone wholesale genocide, much less ever admit to participating in it.