We do not have a gun culture problem, we have a culture problem.

[TheButterZone]

There is a 100% correlation between "gun free zones" and sucessful mass murders. "According to the FBI, mass murder is defined as four or more murders occurring during a particular event with no cooling-off period between the murders. A mass murder typically occurs in a single location in which a number of victims are killed by an individual."

Infringe the most important human right (self-defense), sane innocents bleed.

[Spendulus]

There is a 100% correlation between "gun free zones" and sucessful mass murders. "According to the FBI, mass murder is defined as four or more murders occurring during a particular event with no cooling-off period between the murders. A mass murder typically occurs in a single location in which a number of victims are killed by an individual."

Infringe the most important human right (self-defense), sane innocents bleed.

For some reason though, the phrase has came to refer to use of guns.  Obviously, explosives and other means accomplish the same ends, and are fundamentally indiscriminate.

[lemfuture]

i agree. i envy japanese culture

[iCEBREAKER]

This is something I've noticed doctors have been trying to point out, something pushed these guys over the edge and the mixture of being hopped up on drugs and not being treated right would do that to anyone nevermind people who have mental problems to begin with. Good luck ever getting anyone in America to admit that though, they conveniently ignore the fact that Canada and Switzerland have just about as many guns as the Americans do but you very rarely if at all hear about people going on a rampage with them.

In fact, minus the compulsory national service, I think that the Swiss way is the way to go, if you want to go and buy a gun or have a rifle, you've got to do some kind of proper training first, these 'accidents' I've seen people list as a blame against firearms are caused by people doing things I would never do with a firearm and I don't even own one or know how to take it apart properly!

Yes, and everyone should be forced to take spelling, speech, and debate lessons before exercising their 1st Amendment rights is allowed.  /sarc

The populations of Canada and Switzerland are tiny and culturally homogenous compared to the vast, diverse USA.

While the Swiss are a free people (and kept that way by their respect for the right to armed self-defense) they are a very small country nestled high in the mountains.  Canadians are not a free people, being property owned by The Crown and The City.  Like other Euros, they are free-riders on the security services and ensuing stability provided by those nasty gun-loving American brutes.  Neither place make for a valid comparison to the USA.

It's a damn shame our Aussie cousins were so easily cowed by one tragedy into giving up a Right enshrined in common law since before Magna Carta.  Reclaiming that Right will not be free or easy.  There will be a heavy price to pay...   

[Spendulus]

This is something I've noticed doctors have been trying to point out, something pushed these guys over the edge and the mixture of being hopped up on drugs and not being treated right would do that to anyone nevermind people who have mental problems to begin with. Good luck ever getting anyone in America to admit that though, they conveniently ignore the fact that Canada and Switzerland have just about as many guns as the Americans do but you very rarely if at all hear about people going on a rampage with them.

In fact, minus the compulsory national service, I think that the Swiss way is the way to go, if you want to go and buy a gun or have a rifle, you've got to do some kind of proper training first, these 'accidents' I've seen people list as a blame against firearms are caused by people doing things I would never do with a firearm and I don't even own one or know how to take it apart properly!

Yes, and everyone should be forced to take spelling, speech, and debate lessons before exercising their 1st Amendment rights is allowed.  /sarc

The populations of Canada and Switzerland are tiny and culturally homogenous compared to the vast, diverse USA.

While the Swiss are a free people (and kept that way by their respect for the right to armed self-defense) they are a very small country nestled high in the mountains.  Canadians are not a free people, being property owned by The Crown and The City.  Like other Euros, they are free-riders on the security services and ensuing stability provided by those nasty gun-loving American brutes.  Neither place make for a valid comparison to the USA.

It's a damn shame our Aussie cousins were so easily cowed by one tragedy into giving up a Right enshrined in common law since before Magna Carta.  Reclaiming that Right will not be free or easy.  There will be a heavy price to pay...  

I don't have a problem with encouragement of training in firearms, for a variety of reasons.  Both for men and women and children of both sexes.  Could be taught in high school, for example.  

For example, Glocks are very popular, but do not have an external safety.  This means an ignorant person can easily pick one up and put his finger inside the trigger guard, with potentially disastrous consequences.

The issue that I see is that the Left in the US encourages fear about firearms, and encourages ignorance about them.  This is doubly dangerous.  

I do have a problem with the idea that as part of buying a gun, someone should be forced to go through some training course.  We already have such courses for people who wish concealed carry.  There are simply too many diverse uses and reasons for purchasing firearms to make training integral to the purchase.

[Ron~Popeil]

This is something I've noticed doctors have been trying to point out, something pushed these guys over the edge and the mixture of being hopped up on drugs and not being treated right would do that to anyone nevermind people who have mental problems to begin with. Good luck ever getting anyone in America to admit that though, they conveniently ignore the fact that Canada and Switzerland have just about as many guns as the Americans do but you very rarely if at all hear about people going on a rampage with them.

In fact, minus the compulsory national service, I think that the Swiss way is the way to go, if you want to go and buy a gun or have a rifle, you've got to do some kind of proper training first, these 'accidents' I've seen people list as a blame against firearms are caused by people doing things I would never do with a firearm and I don't even own one or know how to take it apart properly!

That is a pretty enlightened view point from someone I would traditionally disagree with. As a libertarian I am pro gun but I can also see the value of proper instruction in the use and storage of firearms. I would not advocate mandating it at the federal level, but states and municipalities can certainly invoke such requirements. 

Nearly Every Mass Shooting In The Last 20 Years Shares One Thing In Common, & It’s NOT Weapons
http://www.ammoland.com/2013/04/every-mass-shooting-in-the-last-20-years-shares-psychotropic-drugs/#axzz3ANs9LxgU



Could Prescription Meds Result in Gun Confiscation?
http://www.livescience.com/28617-prescription-meds-gun-control.html


Obama VA Is Trolling Veteran Community For Gun Owners

Dear Veteran:

The James E. Van Zandt VA Medial Center is extending the opportunity to request free gun locks to the Veterans we serve. We are providing this opportunity because, as your partner in health care, we are committed to keeping you and your family safe. We selected you for this mailing to Veterans simply because you have an upcoming appointment at our facility.

If you own a gun, we hope you will request and use a gun lock. As a Veteran, you already know about the importance of firearm safety. We encourage you to talk about gun safety with family members, loved ones, and close friends.

If you would like up to four free gun locks for personal use, please indicate how many you would like on the enclosed postcard, include your name and address, and return the postcard. When we receive your request we will mail the requested number of gun lock to the address you provide.
http://www.progressivestoday.com/obama-va-trolling-veteran-community-for-gun-owners/

There is something to the pharmaceutical thing I believe. Anecdotally I once took a popular anti-depression medication marketed for smoking cessation. I did quit smoking for a while but it also did some really weird things to my mind. I remember at one point thinking that suicide "just made sense" in a strange way. I stopped taking the medication immediately. I have never been a depressive or suicidal type. I can't imagine what effect these drugs might have on a less stable mind.

The veteran trolling is just twisted. What do we think the odds are about a list of names and addresses being compiled of anyone that requests a trigger lock?

[tooil]

Indeed.

In term of gun ownership, Switzerland has a higher percentage of citizen owning gun than American. Yet you don't hear people getting killed on the street as often as American.

[Daniel91]

Indeed.

In term of gun ownership, Switzerland has a higher percentage of citizen owning gun than American. Yet you don't hear people getting killed on the street as often as American.

Yes, true.
People in USA feel insecure, and understand that they should protect themselves, their families etc.
In Europe, people don't keep guns because they want to protect themselves or feel insecurity (at least most of them).
People like guns because of hunting, or they inherited it from parents or, like in Switzerland, it's mandatory for everybody who was in Swiss army.
 

[Spendulus]

Indeed.

In term of gun ownership, Switzerland has a higher percentage of citizen owning gun than American. Yet you don't hear people getting killed on the street as often as American.

Yes, true.
People in USA feel insecure, and understand that they should protect themselves, their families etc.
In Europe, people don't keep guns because they want to protect themselves or feel insecurity (at least most of them).
People like guns because of hunting, or they inherited it from parents or, like in Switzerland, it's mandatory for everybody who was in Swiss army.
 

And Switzerland isn't right next to Mexico.  Any more brilliant comparisons?

[RodeoX]

i disagree. there are crazies in america, and they are often the ones who do the public shooting, but there's also a gun culture problem.. only in america do we have this many gun nuts and gun-related deaths. guns are rooted in american culture.

people from other westernized countries have lots of their own mentally unstable people, so why don't they have as many mass shootings?

I agree with the firs part of your statement. It is most often the mentally ill that carry out rampage shootings. The problem with the second part of the argument is... "who is a gun nut"? Someone who like guns and has guns as a hobby? Then I guess I am one.

Do people in the "gun culture" do the shootings? No. We go to the shooting range and shoot paper circles all day. As a member of a quite serious gun club I know that the people there are extremely safety conscious and careful with their weapons. In fact, in gun culture you show your credibility by being a tyrant about the rules. Rampage shooters are not gun nuts, nor do they have any connection to gun culture, they are simply nuts.

Additionally, most shootings in the U.S. are shootings by known criminals and the victims are known criminals. This has always been the case. (excluding the civil war). If we actually enforced the gun laws we have now, and put people away for possessing illegal weapons much could be done to stop the majority of gun violence. But we don't. Often the gun part gets plea bargained away. 

None of this is a growing concern. Violent crime is at historic lows in the U.S. Even the most dangerous cities are much more safe than a generation ago. Of course, those most violent cities also have the most restrictive gun laws.  So if you want safety from gun violence, your best bet is to live where there are almost no shootings and everyone has a gun.

[Spendulus]

i disagree. there are crazies in america, and they are often the ones who do the public shooting, but there's also a gun culture problem.. only in america do we have this many gun nuts and gun-related deaths. guns are rooted in american culture.

people from other westernized countries have lots of their own mentally unstable people, so why don't they have as many mass shootings?

I agree with the firs part of your statement. It is most often the mentally ill that carry out rampage shootings. The problem with the second part of the argument is... "who is a gun nut"? Someone who like guns and has guns as a hobby? Then I guess I am one.

Do people in the "gun culture" do the shootings? No. We go to the shooting range and shoot paper circles all day. As a member of a quite serious gun club I know that the people there are extremely safety conscious and careful with their weapons. In fact, in gun culture you show your credibility by being a tyrant about the rules. Rampage shooters are not gun nuts, nor do they have any connection to gun culture, they are simply nuts.

This is quite likely true because "gun nuts" of which I also would be one all have a palpable fear of the dangers of all parts of guns.  Often times learned the hard way.

[Fray]

i disagree. there are crazies in america, and they are often the ones who do the public shooting, but there's also a gun culture problem.. only in america do we have this many gun nuts and gun-related deaths. guns are rooted in american culture.

people from other westernized countries have lots of their own mentally unstable people, so why don't they have as many mass shootings?

I agree with the firs part of your statement. It is most often the mentally ill that carry out rampage shootings. The problem with the second part of the argument is... "who is a gun nut"? Someone who like guns and has guns as a hobby? Then I guess I am one.
....
Additionally, most shootings in the U.S. are shootings by known criminals and the victims are known criminals. This has always been the case. (excluding the civil war). If we actually enforced the gun laws we have now, and put people away for possessing illegal weapons much could be done to stop the majority of gun violence. But we don't. Often the gun part gets plea bargained away. 

I also agree with this. Most of the mass murders/public shootings are carried out by people who have some kind of mental illness who should not be around guns. I am not exactly sure how to solve this issue without stepping on many citizens' rights.

It is interesting that the places in the US that have the highest rates of gun related crimes and violence are places that have strict gun laws. I would speculate that criminals commit these crimes knowing that there will not be a citizen around with a gun to stop his crime.

[Spendulus]

i disagree. there are crazies in america, and they are often the ones who do the public shooting, but there's also a gun culture problem.. only in america do we have this many gun nuts and gun-related deaths. guns are rooted in american culture.

people from other westernized countries have lots of their own mentally unstable people, so why don't they have as many mass shootings?

I agree with the firs part of your statement. It is most often the mentally ill that carry out rampage shootings. The problem with the second part of the argument is... "who is a gun nut"? Someone who like guns and has guns as a hobby? Then I guess I am one.
....
Additionally, most shootings in the U.S. are shootings by known criminals and the victims are known criminals. This has always been the case. (excluding the civil war). If we actually enforced the gun laws we have now, and put people away for possessing illegal weapons much could be done to stop the majority of gun violence. But we don't. Often the gun part gets plea bargained away.  

I also agree with this. Most of the mass murders/public shootings are carried out by people who have some kind of mental illness who should not be around guns. I am not exactly sure how to solve this issue without stepping on many citizens' rights.

It is interesting that the places in the US that have the highest rates of gun related crimes and violence are places that have strict gun laws. I would speculate that criminals commit these crimes knowing that there will not be a citizen around with a gun to stop his crime.

You know I sincerely do appreciate people from other parts of the world talking knowingly about how they don't need guns to feel safe and how they think somewhat condescendingly that they are better than Americans in this respect.  Transplant some of these guys to south Texas, Arizona or Chicago let's see how rapidly their attitudes change.  

There is no question for me that if a criminal or a nut job worried that some of the people in that restaurant, theater or whatever might be doing concealed carry, he would not do his evil deed.  Not at that place and time.   He is looking for an easy, safe for him hit.  

Most police departments in the US support concealed carry, and are straightforward about it's benefits to the society at large.  

If we have scientific or practical knowledge or guess work that the psychoactive drugs accelerate dangerous behavior including shootings, this needs to be seriously investigated.  It cannot be allowed to be ignored because of lobby and vested interests of psychiatrists (pill pushers, basically) and the pharmaceutical industries.  This is likely what we are beginning to face - serious money interests that would deflect issues with their products by agitating the anti-gun bandwagon.

That's pretty sorry, but that's the way it is.

On the other hand if as a society we accept that psychoactive drugs have great benefits for society and some 0.1 or 0.001% of users go wacko on them, so be it.  But for reasons of discussion, let me note that these rather odd cases of psychotic and delusional behavior, mass murders, do not seem to occur with heroin, crack, speed, marihuana, hashish, or other drugs taken for reasons of addiction or pleasure and for which we imprison people.

[koshgel]

The gun control agenda is something to appease the masses after a tragedy occurs.

Nobody ever looks deeper at why the kid decided to shoot up a school, mall, or movie theater.

[DavidHume]

The gun control agenda is something to appease the masses after a tragedy occurs.

Nobody ever looks deeper at why the kid decided to shoot up a school, mall, or movie theater.

The bully culture breed from "exceptionalism".

[Tusk]

I personally am not a fan of guns, live by the sword die by the sword. If you want to hunt use a bow and arrow more of a sport. But if you want the citizens to disarm, first disarm the state esp the industrial military complex.

[niothor]

With so many mass shootings here in America and abroad, many are quick to say banning of certain firearms is the right way to approach this issue. Though where you find heavy control on firearms you find higher levels of stabbings, death by hammers and clubbings.

Japan , Murder rate 0.3/100k total victims 442.
And this is a country where there is heavy gun control.

I think that the problem is not really with the guns but with the low IQ of the monkeys playing with them.

[REDoctober]

With so many mass shootings here in America and abroad, many are quick to say banning of certain firearms is the right way to approach this issue. Though where you find heavy control on firearms you find higher levels of stabbings, death by hammers and clubbings.

Japan , Murder rate 0.3/100k total victims 442.
And this is a country where there is heavy gun control.

I think that the problem is not really with the guns but with the low IQ of the monkeys playing with them.

Ya, but Japan has the 9th highest suicide rate, with the other top 1-9 being societies that highly restrict guns:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiology_of_suicide

Serenity NOW, Insanity LATER?

[niothor]

With so many mass shootings here in America and abroad, many are quick to say banning of certain firearms is the right way to approach this issue. Though where you find heavy control on firearms you find higher levels of stabbings, death by hammers and clubbings.

Japan , Murder rate 0.3/100k total victims 442.
And this is a country where there is heavy gun control.

I think that the problem is not really with the guns but with the low IQ of the monkeys playing with them.

Ya, but Japan has the 9th highest suicide rate, with the other top 1-9 being societies that highly restrict guns:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiology_of_suicide

Serenity NOW, Insanity LATER?

Suicide rates for the US is 12 while Japanese is 24.
Murder rate in Japan is 0.3 while in US is 4.8

And better kill yourself in the basement than going nuts with a gun in a crowd.

[REDoctober]

With so many mass shootings here in America and abroad, many are quick to say banning of certain firearms is the right way to approach this issue. Though where you find heavy control on firearms you find higher levels of stabbings, death by hammers and clubbings.

Japan , Murder rate 0.3/100k total victims 442.
And this is a country where there is heavy gun control.

I think that the problem is not really with the guns but with the low IQ of the monkeys playing with them.

Ya, but Japan has the 9th highest suicide rate, with the other top 1-9 being societies that highly restrict guns:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiology_of_suicide

Serenity NOW, Insanity LATER?

Suicide rates for the US is 12 while Japanese is 24.
Murder rate in Japan is 0.3 while in US is 4.8

And better kill yourself in the basement than going nuts with a gun in a crowd.

So: In USA, 16.8 die from murder and suicide per 100,000
      In Japan, 28.8 from murder and suicide per 100,000

I think we're doin' OK statistically.


"And better kill yourself in the basement than going nuts with a gun in a crowd."
I can agree with that.