Rand Paul: We Must Demilitarize the Police

[pungopete468]

Most gunshot wounds are survivable, not lethal.

Lethality is based on shot placement, a well placed shot in the head or diaphram (center mass) will be lethal. Guns are all lethal...

Having a larger gun simply minimizes the precision required for shot placement to cause a lethal injury. a .22LR will only cause damage to the tissue in which the projectile contacts while a 30-06 will rupture blood vessels and tear muscle tissue in an 18" radius from the impact site...

[Satan666]

Looks like Rand Paul is going to have some serious competition in the next Kentucky Senate race.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz_V4lRdtjo

[Satan666]

Looks like Rand Paul is going to have some serious competition in the next Kentucky Senate race.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz_V4lRdtjo

Correction, it's Mitch McConnell's seat that he's going after.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_354406555&feature=iv&src_vid=wz_V4lRdtjo&v=CvRJDJcmi5s

[TheButterZone]

Most gunshot wounds are survivable, not lethal.

Lethality is based on shot placement, a well placed shot in the head or diaphram (center mass) will be lethal. Guns are all lethal...

Having a larger gun simply minimizes the precision required for shot placement to cause a lethal injury. a .22LR will only cause damage to the tissue in which the projectile contacts while a 30-06 will rupture blood vessels and tear muscle tissue in an 18" radius from the impact site...

Repeatedly saying they're "all" lethal (when mortality rates say they mostly aren't), does not make your claim any more true. Everyone is simply not a sniper waiting for an exact moment when their target is absolutely still, and they have a sufficient platform, ammunition, and firing conditions to achieve the exact shot placement necessary for lethality. Or going to attempt suicide by eating a shotgun loaded with 00 buck (I've seen a FLIR video of this; it's clear that will work every time, even in a rush, as the criminal was about to be discovered by the searching ground cops). Or able to tie their target up and execute them.

P.S. My brother was in brain injury rehab (meaning it didn't just graze him, curve around his skull, or go through soft tissue only, it went through his brain) with someone shot with a .45, the largest caliber average user's handgun. And it didn't surprise me at all to learn of more of the same survivors.

[desired_username]

Demilitarize? Good luck with that.

Look at all the notable riots. People are opportunistic and there's no better environment to loot and steal than during chaos.

When the benefits stop the leechers will attempt to take as much as they can by force.

The ultimate hedge against SHTF is not gold, silver or bitcoin but weapons, ammo, food and shelter.

[pungopete468]

Most gunshot wounds are survivable, not lethal.

Lethality is based on shot placement, a well placed shot in the head or diaphram (center mass) will be lethal. Guns are all lethal...

Having a larger gun simply minimizes the precision required for shot placement to cause a lethal injury. a .22LR will only cause damage to the tissue in which the projectile contacts while a 30-06 will rupture blood vessels and tear muscle tissue in an 18" radius from the impact site...

Repeatedly saying they're "all" lethal (when mortality rates say they mostly aren't), does not make your claim any more true. Everyone is simply not a sniper waiting for an exact moment when their target is absolutely still, and they have a sufficient platform, ammunition, and firing conditions to achieve the exact shot placement necessary for lethality. Or going to attempt suicide by eating a shotgun loaded with 00 buck (I've seen a FLIR video of this; it's clear that will work every time, even in a rush, as the criminal was about to be discovered by the searching ground cops). Or able to tie their target up and execute them.

P.S. My brother was in brain injury rehab (meaning it didn't just graze him, curve around his skull, or go through soft tissue only, it went through his brain) with someone shot with a .45, the largest caliber average user's handgun. And it didn't surprise me at all to learn of more of the same survivors.

I'm sorry to hear about your brother being shot, that sounds like a terrible experience for you and your family... The survivability of a square shot to the head from a .45 is very low... Miracles do happen but I wouldn't want to take my chances with odds that low...

I think you're misinterpreting me. I never claimed that all gunshots are lethal. I'm stating a fact that all guns can fire lethal shots regardless of the caliber... My mothers uncle was killed in a hunting accident with a .22LR...

Respecting the lethality of a gun is a part of respecting guns and handling them responsibly. Not every gunshot is lethal, but neither is every sword strike, or bomb detonation, or car crash; that's not the point I'm making here...

I'm making a point that even a small gun can be a lethal weapon and a single shot between the eyes from something as small as a .22LR would immediately drop an intruder armed like Rambo with his M60. Even if the wound is survivable, the confrontation is immediately over...

Having a bigger gun won't protect anybody from a smaller one...

The escalation of force has no boundary. There needs to be equilibrium between the police, military, and the people...

[niothor]

Yes indeed. Demilitarize the police and arm them with ice cream cons. Stracciatella favor to be more effective.
And they you will be left wondering why nobody gives a damn about the police and why there will be so many left dead while trying to do their job as crappy as it is.

In my country where police is so weak there are so many cases where the policemen get beaten , spit at and i\m not even approaching the subject on how people talk to them. They are more beggars than police officers.

If they would carry a gun and use it like in the us i think that crime rate and conflicts in the streets will go down by 1000%.

[TheButterZone]

Yes indeed. Demilitarize the police and arm them with ice cream cons. Stracciatella favor to be more effective.
And they you will be left wondering why nobody gives a damn about the police and why there will be so many left dead while trying to do their job as crappy as it is.

In my country where police is so weak there are so many cases where the policemen get beaten , spit at and i\m not even approaching the subject on how people talk to them. They are more beggars than police officers.

If they would carry a gun and use it like in the us i think that crime rate and conflicts in the streets will go down by 1000%.

Legally defenseless police and victims proves unequivocally that your government is run by criminals.

With the tools of...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hue_and_cry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_comitatus_%28common_law%29

... police could safely be unarmed again by summoning the armed support of the ever-present unorganized militia (the People) to make lawful arrests (if a criminal was able to pull off a crime and escape with no armed victims or witnesses present to shoot and/or non-bloodily arrest him, rare). If the People knew the police were a bunch of civil rights violators trying to frame/kill innocents with zero probable cause or justification, they would laugh at the police, cuff them, and bring them before a magistrate.

[Keyara]

The country is getting more dangerous not only because of terrorists but also domestic psychopaths. Demilitarizing the police may not be such a good idea.
 

[Matze]

Honestly Stuff like this needed to be stopped years ago but now is to late unless an outside nation put some pressure on the U.S

[Matze]

Yes indeed. Demilitarize the police and arm them with ice cream cons. Stracciatella favor to be more effective.
And they you will be left wondering why nobody gives a damn about the police and why there will be so many left dead while trying to do their job as crappy as it is.

In my country where police is so weak there are so many cases where the policemen get beaten , spit at and i\m not even approaching the subject on how people talk to them. They are more beggars than police officers.

If they would carry a gun and use it like in the us i think that crime rate and conflicts in the streets will go down by 1000%.

Legally defenseless police and victims proves unequivocally that your government is run by criminals.

With the tools of...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hue_and_cry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_comitatus_%28common_law%29

... police could safely be unarmed again by summoning the armed support of the ever-present unorganized militia (the People) to make lawful arrests (if a criminal was able to pull off a crime and escape with no armed victims or witnesses present to shoot and/or non-bloodily arrest him, rare). If the People knew the police were a bunch of civil rights violators trying to frame/kill innocents with zero probable cause or justification, they would laugh at the police, cuff them, and bring them before a magistrate.

The kid was supposedly fighting back and grabbing the officers gun so it sounds more like a defense case than a murder because he was black case but with the media these days that's how the story will be played.

[TheButterZone]

I'm sorry to hear about your brother being shot, that sounds like a terrible experience for you and your family... The survivability of a square shot to the head from a .45 is very low... Miracles do happen but I wouldn't want to take my chances with odds that low...

I think you're misinterpreting me. I never claimed that all gunshots are lethal. I'm stating a fact that all guns can fire lethal shots regardless of the caliber...

It wasn't my brother, it was one of his fellow brain injury rehab patients.

Just reading what you said before. You said all lethal repeatedly, period, no exceptions. If you had said all guns are blue, that would have been as incorrect as saying "all" guns are lethal. The correlation between guns potentially being painted blue does not cause them to "all" be so, any more than the potential of a gunshot wound being lethal. Now it seems you're backpedaling, so there is no longer a need for me to reply.

Yes indeed. Demilitarize the police and arm them with ice cream cons. Stracciatella favor to be more effective.
And they you will be left wondering why nobody gives a damn about the police and why there will be so many left dead while trying to do their job as crappy as it is.

In my country where police is so weak there are so many cases where the policemen get beaten , spit at and i\m not even approaching the subject on how people talk to them. They are more beggars than police officers.

If they would carry a gun and use it like in the us i think that crime rate and conflicts in the streets will go down by 1000%.

Legally defenseless police and victims proves unequivocally that your government is run by criminals.

With the tools of...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hue_and_cry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_comitatus_%28common_law%29

... police could safely be unarmed again by summoning the armed support of the ever-present unorganized militia (the People) to make lawful arrests (if a criminal was able to pull off a crime and escape with no armed victims or witnesses present to shoot and/or non-bloodily arrest him, rare). If the People knew the police were a bunch of civil rights violators trying to frame/kill innocents with zero probable cause or justification, they would laugh at the police, cuff them, and bring them before a magistrate.

The kid was supposedly fighting back and grabbing the officers gun so it sounds more like a defense case than a murder because he was black case but with the media these days that's how the story will be played.

Let me try to relate that to my quote.
1) If the officer hadn't apparently got out of his car to be within grabbing range of Mike Brown (who by all accounts, was walking in the street; not a reason to arrest someone) and instead used his PA to tell MB to get on the sidewalk (if there was one), and if MB didn't get out of the street then he could have used his sirens to annoy MB out of it, then used his car to slowly physically usher/block him out of it, then if he still insisted on walking in the street, then the cop could have said "ok dude, it's your right to commit suicide". All this would have been recorded on the dash cam and shown he was reasonable in leaving.
2) If the officer wasn't armed, there would have been no gun to grab for.
3) If people of mixed races were around, they could have been summoned by the cop to stand by to defend his actions, if justified, or MB, if not.

[Lethn]

Whether or not the person was fighting back is irrelevant, if you have a gun you don't shoot an unarmed person otherwise you're just a murderer, why the fuck is that so hard to understand for some people?

[TheButterZone]

Whether or not the person was fighting back is irrelevant, if you have a gun you don't shoot an unarmed person otherwise you're just a murderer, why the fuck is that so hard to understand for some people?

"He grabbed for my gun! Ok, I'll take it out of my retention holster and give it to him, bullets first! {bang bang bang}" Criminal.

"He grabbed for my gun and succeeded at defeating my retention holster, now I'm wrestling him for it before he pulls the trigger {bang}" If physical evidence shows a struggle, not criminal.

"He grabbed for my gun in self-defense after I'd unholstered because he was peacefully disrespecting mah authoritah! {bang... bang bang bang}" Criminal.

[Lethn]

"He grabbed for my gun and succeeded at defeating my retention holster, now I'm wrestling him for it before he pulls the trigger {bang}" If physical evidence shows a struggle, not criminal.

This is why if you're going to learn how to use a gun you should train in unarmed combat, fucking noobs

[counter]

I think some of us aren't on the same page when it comes to the meaning of "Demilitarize the Police".  I take that as don't arm them with war weapons and tactics used in times of war on the American people.  Maybe I'm missing something but the point is at times of war people on the battlefield aren't held accountable for their actions and this is the type of things we can see with the police on US soil and this is a problem that needs to be fixed.

[pungopete468]

I'm sorry to hear about your brother being shot, that sounds like a terrible experience for you and your family... The survivability of a square shot to the head from a .45 is very low... Miracles do happen but I wouldn't want to take my chances with odds that low...

I think you're misinterpreting me. I never claimed that all gunshots are lethal. I'm stating a fact that all guns can fire lethal shots regardless of the caliber...

It wasn't my brother, it was one of his fellow brain injury rehab patients.

Just reading what you said before. You said all lethal repeatedly, period, no exceptions. If you had said all guns are blue, that would have been as incorrect as saying "all" guns are lethal. The correlation between guns potentially being painted blue does not cause them to "all" be so, any more than the potential of a gunshot wound being lethal. Now it seems you're backpedaling, so there is no longer a need for me to reply.

There's no backpedaling, I'm simply trying to figure out how anybody can claim that guns are not lethal... I assumed by your post that you misinterpreted my meaning and you actually meant that not all gunshots are lethal to which I agreed; however from your latest post you make it seem as if guns are not lethal and I say you're wrong...

Guns are lethal weapons, swords are lethal weapons, clubs are lethal weapons... Just because somebody survives a wound inflicted by a weapon doesn't declassify that weapon from a status of "lethal."

All guns are lethal, not all gunshots are lethal. Not all guns are blue; I don't see your point...

Please provide proof of a non-lethal caliber gun or there really is no need for you to reply...

[Spendulus]

Please provide proof of a non-lethal caliber gun or there really is no need for you to reply...

Sure.  Many, perhaps all.  Bullets are lethal, not guns.

22 cal snake loads, essentially a miniature shotgun shell, have likely never resulted in a fatality.

Rubber bullets are not lethal (although sometimes, rarely, they are)

The old shotgun shell loaded with rock salt is not lethal.

Blanks are not lethal.

Overall, about 13% of gunshot victims die.

[Spendulus]

"He grabbed for my gun and succeeded at defeating my retention holster, now I'm wrestling him for it before he pulls the trigger {bang}" If physical evidence shows a struggle, not criminal.

This is why if you're going to learn how to use a gun you should train in unarmed combat, fucking noobs

This is good advice. 

[TheButterZone]

Please provide proof of a non-lethal caliber gun or there really is no need for you to reply...

Sure.  Many, perhaps all.  Bullets are lethal, not guns.

Rubber bullets are not lethal (although sometimes, rarely, they are)

The old shotgun shell loaded with rock salt is not lethal.

Etc.

Not even all lead bullets are lethal. They can be lethal, if the circumstances are absolutely right (including, but not limited to -in some cases- ineffective, delayed medical care). But the average, effectively random trajectory bullet (as it is fired from a gun in human hands, not a robot or from a clamped/bolted rest) traveling at x FPS is not guaranteed lethal, and according to mortality statistics, the guarantee is closer to being not lethal than lethal, as I said previously.

Cold a rock salt shell be lethal if fired point blank at a vital organ?