Advice for new users regarding CLOUD MINING

[philipma1957]

For those of you who want proof to see how desperate these companies are, they literally pay people to come onto these boards and post spam supporting them.  Here are users I and others have identified as shill posters.  Click on the user profile and look at their post history.  If 1/2 their posts are promoting a company they are paid shills most likely.  When was the last time you went around telling people how awesome liquid plumber cleaned you pipers  

drawer - new user and 3/4th of his posts are about his supported company
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=732923.msg8309461#msg8309461

testerman - posted the same text in 7 different threads promoting PBMining
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=732923.msg8331652#msg8331652

 Thanks for the informative post on cloudmining.  I have and will continue to avoid it.
One thing I would like to mention is that you have an ad and a link in your sig (as do I) for which you are being compensated.  Like it or not, we might be no better than the "shill" posters you have identified.

Yeah I also run into this.

 I do point out that I posted 300 posts a month pre retirement and pre signature.

It is difficult to separate the financial benefit of postings when you get paid for making them.

To be fair  this is my 520+ of the month and I will not get money for this post.

 If the signature campaigns end I will still post over 300 posts a month.

[Altminer79]

Thanks for the advice, mate. Helped me alot.

[DrG]

For those of you who want proof to see how desperate these companies are, they literally pay people to come onto these boards and post spam supporting them.  Here are users I and others have identified as shill posters.  Click on the user profile and look at their post history.  If 1/2 their posts are promoting a company they are paid shills most likely.  When was the last time you went around telling people how awesome liquid plumber cleaned you pipers  

drawer - new user and 3/4th of his posts are about his supported company
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=732923.msg8309461#msg8309461

testerman - posted the same text in 7 different threads promoting PBMining
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=732923.msg8331652#msg8331652

 Thanks for the informative post on cloudmining.  I have and will continue to avoid it.
One thing I would like to mention is that you have an ad and a link in your sig (as do I) for which you are being compensated.  Like it or not, we might be no better than the "shill" posters you have identified.

It is true that I do have a pay per post signature for PrimeDice and I am being compensated for posts, but if you read my posts you will see I am not spam posting like many of the other users on the forums.  I have also long since passed my 400 post max for the month just like phillipma1957 so everything I've posted in this thread was more or less to let new users become aware of the possible pitfalls of cloud mining.  I will amend my opening statement to include the PD signature disclosure.  Thank you for pointing out that I missed that.

I am not a paid "Shill", however, as I am not hiding the fact that I am being paid by PrimeDice.  Over 1/4 of the senior/hero members have the sig and it's more or less common knowledge that it is a paid sig... just like all the other paid sigs.  Shills are people who come here and promote a website or business without disclosing the fact that they are part of or are being compensated by the business.  Typically when you accuse them of this behavior they will ignore your accusation or deny it.

[Bitbirdhunt]

Is Mining even profitable anymore? The difficulty is rising so fast, that in a year people with 1.6 TH/s will probably only mine like 2-5 cents/day ...

[DrG]

Is Mining even profitable anymore? The difficulty is rising so fast, that in a year people with 1.6 TH/s will probably only mine like 2-5 cents/day ...

There is profit in mining, unfortunately right now all hardware has to be bought from ASIC manufacturers.  They set the price and timeline as to when they deliver your hardware.  If it costs them $100 to make a miner they can sell it to you for $500.  If you buy 1 miner, they can afford to now buy 5 miners and compete against you at 5 times the rate.  Sad, but this is what has happened - see Dogie's ASIC manufacturer Guide https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=456691.0 and notice all of them get an F for ethics even though they may sell very good hardware at a good price (like Bitmain).

[l3sny]

Great thread and thanks for adding kryptologika.com
I hope soon you will be able to put some more positive information in this thread. For those who are interested in our platform please find our FB link:
https://www.facebook.com/kryptologika
and twitter #kryptologika_pl
We want to hear from you!

[wzb422]

thanks for your advices!

[philipma1957]

Well people are all in for cloud mining today

They crash the whole Shopify network payment with the release of -- The Hashlet -- http://gawminers.go2cloud.org/SH38
It happen this afternoon, shortly after the Hashlet was available

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/gawminers-introduces-hashlet-shopify-crashes/2014/08/16

I purchased 4mh in hashlets for 64 dollars. I had some coupons and spent about 10 bucks to do this.

problem is it is too easy to get hash power from gaw miners.  plus they have insanely low prices.  on the surface that seems good .  but since they opened the cloud up to scrypt prices have dropped a lot.

I do not think I can make much profit with ltc/scrypt any more.

[Bigbear8]

I'm thinking about spending like 20 dollars on Cex.io .. Hoping to make some profit. GHs are so expensive..

[transient858]

Is Mining even profitable anymore? The difficulty is rising so fast, that in a year people with 1.6 TH/s will probably only mine like 2-5 cents/day ...

There is profit in mining, unfortunately right now all hardware has to be bought from ASIC manufacturers.  They set the price and timeline as to when they deliver your hardware.  If it costs them $100 to make a miner they can sell it to you for $500.  If you buy 1 miner, they can afford to now buy 5 miners and compete against you at 5 times the rate.  Sad, but this is what has happened - see Dogie's ASIC manufacturer Guide https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=456691.0 and notice all of them get an F for ethics even though they may sell very good hardware at a good price (like Bitmain).

Not sure how you calculate your profit. When I run a profit simulator on bitcoin mining, even bitmaintech S3 miners do not show any profit after you factor in the electricity cost.

Unless you have free to extremely cheap electricity cost, there is no point in mining.

[Bitsaurus]

Is Mining even profitable anymore? The difficulty is rising so fast, that in a year people with 1.6 TH/s will probably only mine like 2-5 cents/day ...

There is profit in mining, unfortunately right now all hardware has to be bought from ASIC manufacturers.  They set the price and timeline as to when they deliver your hardware.  If it costs them $100 to make a miner they can sell it to you for $500.  If you buy 1 miner, they can afford to now buy 5 miners and compete against you at 5 times the rate.  Sad, but this is what has happened - see Dogie's ASIC manufacturer Guide https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=456691.0 and notice all of them get an F for ethics even though they may sell very good hardware at a good price (like Bitmain).

Not sure how you calculate your profit. When I run a profit simulator on bitcoin mining, even bitmaintech S3 miners do not show any profit after you factor in the electricity cost.

Unless you have free to extremely cheap electricity cost, there is no point in mining.

Well the profit is there for the manufacturers of the ASICs themselves.  That's why all the companies are making their own farms off the money that people send to them to buy miners.  For every 1 miner you buy they can afford to buy 3 or 4 and they can make a profit that way.

[philipma1957]

Some fresh feedback about Hashlet profitability

https://hashtalk.org/t/first-hashlet-payout/6402/20

The hashlet
http://gawminers.go2cloud.org/SH38

I'm on hold with scrypt mining, I prefer going BTC only.

I am much like you.  I am directing more are btc for now.

I do mine in house but power is 15 cents a k watt so in house is difficult.

I have 2 s-3's at gawminers. at 0 cents  a kwatt for 1 month then 10 cents a  k watt
I have 4 s-3's in house at 15 cents a k watt
I have 2 s-3's at a friends office power is 3 cents a k-watt  but I am close to maxed at the 656 watts they are using.
I now have 10 gridseeds in house also at 15 cents a k watt
I have 62 mh in mixed gear  on zencloud  with

I just sold off a 1th dragon to my host in china.

[l3sny]

@Philipma
Perhaps you would be interested in our thread.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=732733.0
We charge around $0.11 per GH/s per month and we will be reducing the maintenance fees by 2% starting with 01 September. Kryptologika is competitive with home mining and we offer silver backup.

[cloverme]

Probably one of the better posts here in this forum in a long time, well done.

Sticky suggested Dr G's post.

[odolvlobo]

I hope nobody thinks that cloud mining scams are new or rare. There have been many cloud mining scams in the past.

Here are some:

MiningUnited: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=189872
TimeToBit: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=665330
All those "perpetual mining bond" scams at GLBSE.

[DrG]

I hope nobody thinks that cloud mining scams are new or rare. There have been many cloud mining scams in the past.

Here are some:

MiningUnited: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=189872
TimeToBit: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=665330
All those "perpetual mining bond" scams at GLBSE.

Bitcoin time is like a factor of 10x as fast as real life, so 1 month in Bitcoin is like a year or human life.  Those GLBSE defaults are so long ago I haven't even heard them brought up for at least a couple weeks.  Despite all the documentation of all the shady stuff people have done, the new users are still making mistakes.  Sometimes you just have to tell people not to put their hand in the fire and actually show them why 

[Rock53]

Cloud Mining at CEX.io - I thought that it would be a great idea to use some of my mined bitcoins to buy GHS at CEX.io, since they only charge .18 per GHS per month - that's not a lot right?  Wrong it's a fortune!.  I bought 1 TH/s of GHS power, so at .18 per GHS, the maximum fee is $180 per month.  Well that 1 TH/s of power only produces .5 of a bitcoin per month.  So, if the price of a bitcoin falls to $400, then my .5 bitcoin is worth $200.  Now subtract the fee of $180 that I was charged by CEX.io and I am left with a profit of $20.  Sure, cloud mining may be more profitable in a rising bitcoin market, but then the monthly fee would probably increase and then I wouldn't even be making .5 of a bitcoin because of the difficulty increase and all the hashing power coming on board.  My conclusion:  Sell the GHS's at CEX.io before they are worthless and use my S-1 rigs at home to heat my house this winter, while wearing earplugs.  A once profitable fun hobby is no longer profitable and definately no longer fun.

[l3sny]

It will not work for you if you take it as an investment. But if you buy them, keep them a while and sell them for the same or higher prices you will make a very good profit. Please note that the price on CEX is a market price. There are people willing to pay 0.0038 per GH/s. And there are thousads of them. At kryptologika the market prices are much lower, the maintenance costs are also lower and we add silver price protection for the GH/s.
Perhaps you could make an extra mile, visit our site and compare CEX prices and kryptologika prices and comment here?

[iluvpie60]

Never cloud mine. it centralizes everything.  cex.io got me to lose 40% of my holding in ONE DAY. if you cloud mine you get screwed over so hard outta nowhere. cex.io added futures and taht is what did it to me. DONT CLOUD HASH!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DrG]

It will not work for you if you take it as an investment. But if you buy them, keep them a while and sell them for the same or higher prices you will make a very good profit. Please note that the price on CEX is a market price. There are people willing to pay 0.0038 per GH/s. And there are thousads of them. At kryptologika the market prices are much lower, the maintenance costs are also lower and we add silver price protection for the GH/s.
Perhaps you could make an extra mile, visit our site and compare CEX prices and kryptologika prices and comment here?

l3sny - I think the biggest point of contention, the real issue with cloud mining, is whether or not people can trust you to keep up your end of the bargain.  When buying hardware from a company like KNC or Bitmain current users know they will probably get their hardware (even if it is late or worthless - they will still get it).

What assurances do you provide to your customers.  You said the mining is silver backed.  Does that mean somebody is holding your silver as an escrow or bond?  Are you a licensed business?  Does your business have insurance?  These are the things that would make people consider cloud mining as a viable option.  Without the proof that it is a real business it may just as well be a ponzi.