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Author Topic: Advice for new users regarding CLOUD MINING  (Read 43393 times)
DrG
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August 14, 2014, 09:04:28 PM
Merited by Raja_MBZ (2), vapourminer (1)
 #1

        First off I will preface by saying that my only current holdings are BTC, LTC, Monero, USD and I am enrolled in Stunna's PrimeDice signature campaign.  I do not have any stake in any Bitcoin based business nor do I have any affiliation with any business other than my own medical practice.  I have a small GPU farm (residual of my previous monster) and 2 Antminer S3 B6 ASICs.

        A lot of users are coming onto these forums learning about Bitcoin and hearing about people making some money and possibly even becoming rich or filthy rich.  While I will not say the time to make $ in crytocurrency is over, the chance to make significant profits by mining is gone (at least for now).  Many new users who are not familiar with how to build computers let alone mine on them come to these forums looking to invest $ and get involved with the cryptocurrency "craze" - the biggest notable coin obviously being Bitcoin
      BTC.

      There are 3 basic ways to acquire BTC
      -Mine them using dedicated hardware known as ASICs (previously CPUs and video cards were used, now that is obsolete)
      -Buy virtual or cloud mining contracts with fiat (cash) and get a flow of BTC into your account/wallet for the defined contract length
      -Buy them in person via localbitcoins or on an exchange like BTCe, Bitstamp, Poloniex, Crytpsy etc
      -Work for them as you would with your regular job but receive payment in BTC as opposed to fiat like US Dollars - see the services section to look for job offers

      So ever since CEX.IO started offering virtual or cloud mining a lot of users have considered this option since they didn't have to deal with the noise, heat, electricity rewiring, fire risks, maintenance and general headache involved with actual mining.  Many of the more "veteran" bitcoiners like myself felt that these companies did nothing for the Bitcoin community other than enrich themselves and we were vehement about avoiding these companies.  After all, why would a company go through the trouble of setting up something that would generate passive profit and offer to give you some of that profit.  No company performs a service like that in the real world - only charities do.  The prices at CEX are also insanely priced relative to actual hardware ownership but supporters of CEX will argue that the profit to be made is from trading and not from the actual hashing you purchase.  To that I would rebutt that why would you risk adding a middleman if all you wanted to do was trade for more BTC - you might as well trade BTC for fiat on an established exchange.

      Well the discussion about whether or not cloud mining is good or not can go on and on - and it has valid points on both sides.  What I don't like to see is new users arriving on these forums looking to get involved with cryptocurrency only to have a bad experience and then end up thinking the cryptocurrency world is full of scammers and cheaters.  We do have thousands of scammers.  But we have over a million good hearted people who would be the kind of person to let you know you dropped your wallet in a store.  To that effect, I will warn new users to consider some things particular to cloud mining.  First, let me go over the risks of mining with real hardware so you can see why people considered cloud mining at first:

      With real hardware:
      1) You hope the company you order from is not a scam.  You hope you don't send them 5 BTC for a miner and then they just disappear.  Since BTC are NEVER reversible (unlike credit card payments) once you send your payment you are at the mercy of the receiver to send the coins back should you have a problem or want a refund.
      2) You hope you get the hardware when promised. This was a HUGE issue for miners (myself included).  BFL shipped my pre-order almost 13 months after I ordered it, about 10 months late.
      3) You hope the hardware, once it arrives meets specification.  It hashes at the right speed and uses the amount of power it said it would (or less preferably)
      4) You hope the hardware is reliable and doesn't die.  With mining, time is money - at the present time is more important than future time - especially when the mining difficulty increase (please read up about Bitcoin difficulty if you do not understand this)
      5) You hope you earn more with the miner than you paid - this should be obvious to be considered an investment.  Sadly this is where the majority of hardware manufacturers are failing their customers but with good reason - going back to why would somebody sell you something that could make profits for them?
      6) You hope that if the hardware does fail the company will RMA it quickly

      Now let's compare to cloud mining:
      1) Again you hope the company is not a scam.  You don't want to buy a 5 year contract and then have the company run away after collecting up-front contract income for 6 months.  In the crypto world unless you know the names and address of the actual company you are dealing with you will most likely never see your money again.
      2&3) Cloud miners typically will deliver exactly what they promised in terms of hasrate or people would get upset at the very first day and it would be bad for their image. You don't need to worry about specs and efficiency.
      4) Cloud mining does require the mining company to be able to reliably mine.  I haven't heard of these companies having significant down-time or server issues
      5) Just like with actual hardware no mining company has been shown to really be worth buying other than PBMining - and for that we have the issues below
      6) You are relying on the company to be in business and holding up their contract for the set duration.  Now consider your contracts with phone carriers, internet access, cable TV etc.  I don't know how it is in the rest of the world, but in the US these companies are notorious for changing the rules and changing your contract and secretly charging you more fees and trying to trick their customers with the full blessing of the US government (via FTC consent).  Now think about the crytocurrency world where many companies are anonymous and newly created - do you trust a company that has been around for 3 months to honor a 5 year contract?  If they go bankrupt who are you going to call?  Would you trust the 40 year roofing warranty from a 2 month old roofing shingle company?

      And that last point #6 is where the biggest issue with cloud mining resides.  Let's forget about whether you'll make money or not.  Let's forget about whether they restrict you to mining on certain pools (or even algorithms if you're mining alternative coins).  Let's assume you get a contract and you start getting income into your wallet.  You have to HOPE that the company stays in business and doesn't shut down for the life of the contract - especially since many of these companies do not allow you to transfer ownership of your contract.  You are trusting these cloud mining companies.  If the company showed me the management positions, pictures of these people, address where the business is headquartered (not necessarily where the mining is going on for security reasons) then perhaps I would be willing to trust these companies.  I run a business myself - I am incorporated in California as a physician and my information is clearly visible to the CA public.  These mining companies should at the very least show you their credentials before you invest with them.

      Gavin Anderson, one of the lead BTC developers recently echoed similar sentiments:
      http://cointelegraph.com/news/112329/gavin-andresens-fractional-reserve-mining-cloud-miners-respond

      Having said that, I will list some companies.  I am not endorsing any of these companies - just making a list for reference.  If a representative from the company would like me to amend statements or prove the company's validity please post in this thread or link to the official announcement thread.  The End User must do the due diligence and investigate the company before investing.

      CEX.IO
      • Considered the first cloud mining company and is a subsidiary/partner to Ghash.IO
      • Allows you to buy and sell your hashrate at any time - this is the only way to make any profit from this service.  You will lose money if you just buy hashing power.
      • Insanely overpriced (relative to physical hardware) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=661122.0
      • Your cloud hashing may at times even cost you money due to the insanely overpriced maintenance fees you will lose money during bad luck spells
      • 07-07-17 FOLLOW-UP - still around but most people have already left https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303947.0

      Megamine.com

      Finalhash.com
      • Added to list per Finalhash's request
      • They are incorporated in the  US state of Wyoming
      • Buying a contract appears to entail buying hardware which will be shipped to you at the end of the contract
      • 07-07-17 FOLLOW-UP - website is still up but CEO Marshall hasn't been online here since 2015... assume dead.

      GawMiner/Zenminer

      Genesis-mining

      Kryptologika

      NiceHash.com

      lunamine.com
      • CONFIRMED SCAM! - took contracts for a couple months and now the website is down - ran away with over 2000BTC!!!
      • Ran a signature advertising campaign and failed to pay all the signature bearers stealing even more money!!! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=686826.0
      • 07-07-17 FOLLOW-UP - Confirmed Ponzi scam

      PBMining
      • Has undoubtedly the best prices in the cloud mining industry
      • Should be assumed to be a ponzi unless it can be demonstrated otherwise since their model is unsustainable.  I don't accuse people instant but the company has not provided any proof otherwise despite multiple claims of operating a ponzi.  They also have no evidence of an actual farm, no evidence that they are actually mining (can't show block generation).  They may show pictures, but I can stand in front of the Statue of Liberty and claims it's mine.
      • Will most likely end up disappearing like lunamine
      • 07-07-17 FOLLOW-UP - Confirmed Ponzi scam https://www.cloudminingdirectory.com/pbmining/review/

      Hasflare
      If you have other major cloud hashing sites I should add please list them in the above format.[/list][/list][/list]
      Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
      Bitsaurus
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      August 14, 2014, 09:20:10 PM
       #2

      Thank you for posting this.  If a new user can't be bothered to spend 10 minutes to read that then they have no business mining and should have their money taken away from them.  If the money is that easy to part with it must have been easy to acquire.

      Cloud mining also centralizes the hashing power into the hands of companies rather than individual miners.  Most miners can't even dictate where they want to hash.  It's not good for crypto.   It's not good for the end user.  It's only good for the company.

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      August 14, 2014, 09:37:50 PM
       #3

      For those of you who want proof to see how desperate these companies are, they literally pay people to come onto these boards and post spam supporting them.  Here are users I and others have identified as shill posters.  Click on the user profile and look at their post history.  If 1/2 their posts are promoting a company they are paid shills most likely.  When was the last time you went around telling people how awesome liquid plumber cleaned you pipers  Grin

      drawer - new user and 3/4th of his posts are about his supported company
      https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=732923.msg8309461#msg8309461

      testerman - posted the same text in 7 different threads promoting PBMining
      https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=732923.msg8331652#msg8331652
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      August 15, 2014, 05:29:38 AM
       #4

      Mining in general is bad business, cloud mining is even worse as they charge you extra for service you can do yourself at high premium but low quality service.
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      August 15, 2014, 06:23:39 AM
       #5

      Thank you for posting that DrG. I don't think I am new but I know there is a lot more I need to learn. I don't frequent this forum very much but I have enjoyed many of your posts.

      I also wanted to address GAW/Zenminer. As a customer of theirs with 8 miners on "the ZenCloud" I am very satisfied with them. Even before the merge both have shown me they care very much about the customers. I have had a few bumps with them but they have stayed in constant contact with me and made every one of my issues right. In my book that counts for a lot. I been on this earth for a few years and I know "Stuff Happens" and it is how that stuff gets felt with that counts the most.

      I would second your suggestion to read up on difficulty and the such. Find out all you can before you make a leap into the crypto realm. I am still trying to figure out how to ROI…LOL but once you get involved in this it is highly addictive. No visible chance to make my money back but I just can't stop playing around with these miners…LOL

      I would also add once you take DrG's advice and educate your self….never and I mean NEVER invest more money then you are willing to loose. One day this all looks good and you gonna make some ching and 10 minutes later BTC went from $630 to $513 ( I just lost $200 BTW)…. Grin

      @Bitsaurus …LOL I just read your snappy comebacks to the "shill posts"  Cheesy

      Take a DEEP breath…thats still free
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      August 15, 2014, 07:31:11 AM
       #6

      PB mining is a bit odd, but still you pay 100% more then if you buy hardware, so it is possible to make a profit for PB mining. Still I understand your ponzi accusation, my first thought.

      I wanna buy an additional 200 ghash, but am scared that they will vanish in a couple of months when they have a lot of orders Sad.

      Another cloud mining service is Gigascrypt.com, haven't read the terms yet, but looks promising!

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      August 15, 2014, 07:43:08 AM
       #7

      Thank you for posting that DrG. I don't think I am new but I know there is a lot more I need to learn. I don't frequent this forum very much but I have enjoyed many of your posts.

      I also wanted to address GAW/Zenminer. As a customer of theirs with 8 miners on "the ZenCloud" I am very satisfied with them. Even before the merge both have shown me they care very much about the customers. I have had a few bumps with them but they have stayed in constant contact with me and made every one of my issues right. In my book that counts for a lot. I been on this earth for a few years and I know "Stuff Happens" and it is how that stuff gets felt with that counts the most.

      I would second your suggestion to read up on difficulty and the such. Find out all you can before you make a leap into the crypto realm. I am still trying to figure out how to ROI…LOL but once you get involved in this it is highly addictive. No visible chance to make my money back but I just can't stop playing around with these miners…LOL

      I would also add once you take DrG's advice and educate your self….never and I mean NEVER invest more money then you are willing to loose. One day this all looks good and you gonna make some ching and 10 minutes later BTC went from $630 to $513 ( I just lost $200 BTW)…. Grin

      @Bitsaurus …LOL I just read your snappy comebacks to the "shill posts"  Cheesy

      Well I don't like to label people without having some proof but if you look at the user's posting history everything is clearly laid out. It's not wrong for somebody from a mining company, an exchange, a vendor who accepts BTC, or a cloud mining operation to come on the boards and promote their product - what good business wouldn't do that.  I find it shady when the company hires people who post as if they regular users without disclosing their association.  Yes, regular users who happen to talk about a single company 50 or 75% of the time - nothing fishy about that  Wink

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      DrG
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      August 15, 2014, 07:51:50 AM
       #8

      PB mining is a bit odd, but still you pay 100% more then if you buy hardware, so it is possible to make a profit for PB mining. Still I understand your ponzi accusation, my first thought.

      I wanna buy an additional 200 ghash, but am scared that they will vanish in a couple of months when they have a lot of orders Sad.

      Another cloud mining service is Gigascrypt.com, haven't read the terms yet, but looks promising!

      I'll add Gigascrypt to the list but I honestly don't have time to investigate companies.  It looks like Gigascrypt hasn't posted to Twitter in a month and nobody is really talking about them in the services section.  I leave that to other forum members who are into that field.

      Back when BFL was trying to become the first ASIC manufacturer a lot of people actually flew out to BFL in Kansas to tour their facility before plopping down $2k, $5k and in some cases $100K of hardware.  Now it seems people are happy to throw it away without doing any due diligence whatsoever and then cry afterwards.

      There were several people, myself included, who warned others to not buy cloud mining unless they knew the company owner firsthand or knew where the company was physically located.  A lot of people on these forums had lunamine signatures just last week - and now the company is gone.  I'm not saying that every cloud company is going to run away and scam everybody, but people should at least research their investments before buying into them. This isn't like throwing money at AAPL or MSFT stock.

      PBMining may be legitmate.  Unfortunately from what I have seen they haven't bothered to rebuke the notion that they are ponzi.  If anybody from PBMining would like to prove otherwise please post here.

      As noted above GAWMiner/Zenminer are still communicating with their customers.  Obviously they're not trying to run away at this point in time and they just very well have growing pains like many businesses do when they're understaffed.
      Kprawn
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      August 15, 2014, 12:39:12 PM
       #9

      The thing is, and I need to state, that I am one of the Lunamine signature members, who got suckered...These companies offer such legit looking businesses.

      Follow the Lunamine thread, and you would find, 90% of the people having issues, got it sorted out quickly. {So obviously, these people are getting better at the long con now}

      They enter the mining field, with loads of skills and offer a great service. {Based on this, many people would be successful, if they had a sound business plan} But then they get greedy, and they decide to run away, with peoples money.  Grin

      I guess the temtation is too big, and also the amount of money involved.  Sad

      Signature space for Hire :->
      bitgeek
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      August 15, 2014, 02:49:27 PM
       #10

      I have been dealing with GAW for a while and always got a response. IMO they aren't unresponsive, just check the forums every single complaint gets answered by their employee Amber.
      I've noticed guys at GAW are serious about nettiquette and angry people tend to go mental. Some people went too far and got banned on hashtalk, so they made new accounts here and started complaining.

      I'm not saying all negative feedback is fake, but at least half of it is.


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      Arctic
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      August 15, 2014, 02:53:56 PM
       #11

      one to add to the list:

      Megamine.com

      ,

      Time spent on reconnaissance is seldom wasted.
      jonnybravo0311
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      August 15, 2014, 02:58:27 PM
       #12

      The problem with cloud mining is that it requires a large capital investment up front by the provider if it is to be legit.  The service provider must purchase the hardware, set it up, maintain it, etc.  Assuming I want to setup a 1PH/s farm, I'm pretty sure I've seen the $1,000,000 number floated as necessary capital to do so.  Even if that number is only $800,000 it's still a sizable chunk of cash.

      Now I've got to recoup my investment.  As we all know, the value of the hardware depreciates very quickly.  Assuming meager 10% difficulty jumps, you're looking at losing 10% of your revenue stream every 2016 blocks.  This hardware costs money to run - power, cooling, location, maintenance - which further reduces my revenue.  Basically, your cloud mining provider faces all the same things every other miner does.

      Since I'm in business to make a profit, I must therefore charge consumers accordingly.  This is where I need to try and forecast the future and make decisions based on how much risk I'm willing to accept.  Here is where you, as the cloud mining consumer, are also making your decisions.  It's a gamble.  Do you think you can forecast better than I can?  That's the game we're playing.  If you win, you make a profit on your cloud mining contract.  If I win, I make the money on that contract.  The difference is that I'm the one in control.  I'm setting prices.  I've got the edge because I can adjust things according to how the market is doing.  You, on the other hand, are locked into the decision you made.

      Up to this point, I'm only speaking of legitimate providers.  Companies who really do own hardware and are actually mining Bitcoin with it.  As a consumer, I've already got virtually everything going against me with these guys.  Now you introduce the scammers.  The easiest scam is the Ponzi.  Maybe I invest a bit of capital up front to purchase some Bitcoin and setup a website.  I then sell my "cloud mining" service to you.  You pay me Bitcoin, which I then turn around and pay back over time.  I tell you to refer your friends and you'll get a cut of the profits.  You're interested because it means more coin in your pocket.  As long as I can continue to get people to join the game, I can keep the game going.  Those of us on the top make a killing.  I've already recouped my initial investment (if I even made one to begin with).  Eventually, no more people will join and things start to go bad.  All I have to do is close up shop.  I can claim I was hacked, robbed, beaten, whatever.  It doesn't matter.  I'm out with a ton of coin and you're stuck with nothing.

      In both cases the cards are not stacked in the consumer's favor.  Legitimate cloud mining providers are in it to make a profit for themselves - not the consumer.  Scammers - well, we know they're only in it for themselves.  Do yourself a favor and avoid cloud mining altogether.

      Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
      Houseman
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      August 16, 2014, 02:21:46 AM
       #13

      Good points in this thread. I looked into Lunamine as it appeared genuine, but I would never buy a fixed term cloud contract as it is exactly the same as me giving you $1000 and you saying you'll give me back $50 each month, but i cant access the $1,000 ever. Its a losing proposition all day long. I have traded CEX GHS, but not sit and hold as that will not reward as the underlying asset inversely tracks difficulty.

      By the way everyone (almost) in this thread has a gambling signature deal that pays out on the number of posts made (at least I think that is how it works). Nothing wrong I guess with that just that it shows everyone is after your BTC or $ be it gambling, cloud contracts real or ponzi etc.

      Due diligence will point you in the right direction these sort of threads useful part of that process

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      johnnyrocket
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      August 16, 2014, 04:27:13 AM
       #14

      I posted this in the ZenMiner thread, but it seems important to note the following issues with GAW/ZenMiner here as well:

      1) Total lack of any real mining from ZenMiner Cloud, as confirmed by more than 50% of the pools ZenMiner Cloud claims to allow miners to select. No increase in hashrate, workers, etc. from ZenMiner Cloud, nor "affiliation" or "private stratums" that Eric/Josh have claimed in the past, as commented on by at least four of the ZenMiner Cloud user-selectable pools.

      2) No documented evidence of physical miners or an actual datacenter presence, as much as you guys like to post photo/video propaganda of Josh being the "scrypt king" -- just seems odd you won't post any kind of proof.

      3) Extremely heavy handed moderation on HashTalk of any discussion of these issues or any other question/topic that you dislike.

      4) Increasingly large delays in shipping orders both from GAW and ZenMiner.

      5) Decreasing amount of non-ZenMiner Cloud hardware available for purchase at GAW (and increasing prices on the few items that are available).

      6) "Interest" on ZenMiner Cloud held-bitcoin -- seems an awful lot like a ponzi scheme.

      7) Discontinuation of "founders club" benefits like the promised upgrade paths, free hosting for life, etc. without any announcement or discussion possible - again due to heavy handed moderation on HashTalk, and refusal of customer service representatives to address the issue.
      cinder
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      August 16, 2014, 04:51:43 AM
       #15

      I posted this in the ZenMiner thread, but it seems important to note the following issues with GAW/ZenMiner here as well:

      1) Total lack of any real mining from ZenMiner Cloud, as confirmed by more than 50% of the pools ZenMiner Cloud claims to allow miners to select. No increase in hashrate, workers, etc. from ZenMiner Cloud, nor "affiliation" or "private stratums" that Eric/Josh have claimed in the past, as commented on by at least four of the ZenMiner Cloud user-selectable pools.

      2) No documented evidence of physical miners or an actual datacenter presence, as much as you guys like to post photo/video propaganda of Josh being the "scrypt king" -- just seems odd you won't post any kind of proof.

      3) Extremely heavy handed moderation on HashTalk of any discussion of these issues or any other question/topic that you dislike.

      4) Increasingly large delays in shipping orders both from GAW and ZenMiner.

      5) Decreasing amount of non-ZenMiner Cloud hardware available for purchase at GAW (and increasing prices on the few items that are available).

      6) "Interest" on ZenMiner Cloud held-bitcoin -- seems an awful lot like a ponzi scheme.

      7) Discontinuation of "founders club" benefits like the promised upgrade paths, free hosting for life, etc. without any announcement or discussion possible - again due to heavy handed moderation on HashTalk, and refusal of customer service representatives to address the issue.

      Good points here.

      Since scrypt mining has negative ROI. They might as well take your money and pay you back a smaller portion of it every month.
      Gumbork
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      August 16, 2014, 06:30:58 AM
       #16

      I posted this in the ZenMiner thread, but it seems important to note the following issues with GAW/ZenMiner here as well:

      1) Total lack of any real mining from ZenMiner Cloud, as confirmed by more than 50% of the pools ZenMiner Cloud claims to allow miners to select. No increase in hashrate, workers, etc. from ZenMiner Cloud, nor "affiliation" or "private stratums" that Eric/Josh have claimed in the past, as commented on by at least four of the ZenMiner Cloud user-selectable pools.

      2) No documented evidence of physical miners or an actual datacenter presence, as much as you guys like to post photo/video propaganda of Josh being the "scrypt king" -- just seems odd you won't post any kind of proof.

      3) Extremely heavy handed moderation on HashTalk of any discussion of these issues or any other question/topic that you dislike.

      4) Increasingly large delays in shipping orders both from GAW and ZenMiner.

      5) Decreasing amount of non-ZenMiner Cloud hardware available for purchase at GAW (and increasing prices on the few items that are available).

      6) "Interest" on ZenMiner Cloud held-bitcoin -- seems an awful lot like a ponzi scheme.

      7) Discontinuation of "founders club" benefits like the promised upgrade paths, free hosting for life, etc. without any announcement or discussion possible - again due to heavy handed moderation on HashTalk, and refusal of customer service representatives to address the issue.

      Good points here.

      Since scrypt mining has negative ROI. They might as well take your money and pay you back a smaller portion of it every month.


      I believe that what could mining has been doing.... they just need to fake mining and pay you back partial...


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      Bitsaurus
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      August 16, 2014, 07:17:17 AM
       #17

      Good points in this thread. I looked into Lunamine as it appeared genuine, but I would never buy a fixed term cloud contract as it is exactly the same as me giving you $1000 and you saying you'll give me back $50 each month, but i cant access the $1,000 ever. Its a losing proposition all day long. I have traded CEX GHS, but not sit and hold as that will not reward as the underlying asset inversely tracks difficulty.

      By the way everyone (almost) in this thread has a gambling signature deal that pays out on the number of posts made (at least I think that is how it works). Nothing wrong I guess with that just that it shows everyone is after your BTC or $ be it gambling, cloud contracts real or ponzi etc.

      Due diligence will point you in the right direction these sort of threads useful part of that process

      I have tried 6 different signature campaigns and 5 of the have failed to pay me.  PrimeDice is the only one that has kept it's word and Stunna is a good representative for the Bitcoin community - in stark contrast to lunamine who everybody plastered their sig and they ran off without paying anybody.  PrimeDice is honest in that it is known as a gambling site and you should only play with money you'll willing to lose.  All the cloud mining companies are gambles but they present themselves as "investments"  Cheesy

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        GET INTENSE COIN!

      Coinhunter32
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      August 16, 2014, 07:56:38 AM
       #18

      Thanks for the advice, bro. I bought the real hardware a few weeks ago, I'm pretty happy though. Nothing wrong so far.
      philipma1957
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      Avalon 841 rocks


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      August 16, 2014, 12:54:14 PM
       #19

      Good points in this thread. I looked into Lunamine as it appeared genuine, but I would never buy a fixed term cloud contract as it is exactly the same as me giving you $1000 and you saying you'll give me back $50 each month, but i cant access the $1,000 ever. Its a losing proposition all day long. I have traded CEX GHS, but not sit and hold as that will not reward as the underlying asset inversely tracks difficulty.

      By the way everyone (almost) in this thread has a gambling signature deal that pays out on the number of posts made (at least I think that is how it works). Nothing wrong I guess with that just that it shows everyone is after your BTC or $ be it gambling, cloud contracts real or ponzi etc.

      Due diligence will point you in the right direction these sort of threads useful part of that process

      Nice post.  I have a signature for prime dice.  I get paid up to 400 posts in 1 month.  this is my 520th post for the month.

      you can verify my post count here.   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=64507;sa=showPosts

      Okay all cloud mining listed above  with the exception of GAW Miners is pretty much nuts to do.  you have 0 protection the entire time they have your hard earned BTC.  None of them take CC payment.  I advise you to use none of them.  Now That has been spoken on to the Gaw Miners.

      Some days I think they are brillant other days I think they are complete total --- (pick your favorite insult).

       They offer one thing no one else offers on the list above they offer CC payments  which gives you 60 days protection

      Should you buy from them ?  I don't know some days I think you should and some days I think you should not.  Did I buy from them yes I did and quite a lot.  I have a thread on my experience with them for the last 30 days or so. using cloud or zen .

      https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=698679.0;all

        I moderated this myself and as of yet have not had to alter anyone's posts.  So most likely  many complaints against them are shill accounts.



      They will sell you a piece of the cloud and you can mine in under a few hours. if you use a CC you have CC protection if they crash and burn.

      Will you make money with them …..  I have no idea .

       but  if you get an s-3 from them today it will be mining on the zen cloud in about 2 hours.  it will be CC protected for 60 days or so.


      Oh  I have :

      6 s-3's in house
      11 gridseed blades in house
      1 AsicMiner Tube ordered on this site due  next week.

      I have 58MH on zencloud/gawminers
      I have 950Gh on zencloud/gawminers

      I have a dragon 1th hosted in china
      I have a disaster from black arrow doing nothing  one day maybe I will see something from it.

      I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
      I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
      xhomerx10
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      August 16, 2014, 02:08:54 PM
       #20

      For those of you who want proof to see how desperate these companies are, they literally pay people to come onto these boards and post spam supporting them.  Here are users I and others have identified as shill posters.  Click on the user profile and look at their post history.  If 1/2 their posts are promoting a company they are paid shills most likely.  When was the last time you went around telling people how awesome liquid plumber cleaned you pipers  Grin

      drawer - new user and 3/4th of his posts are about his supported company
      https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=732923.msg8309461#msg8309461

      testerman - posted the same text in 7 different threads promoting PBMining
      https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=732923.msg8331652#msg8331652

       Thanks for the informative post on cloudmining.  I have and will continue to avoid it.
      One thing I would like to mention is that you have an ad and a link in your sig (as do I) for which you are being compensated.  Like it or not, we might be no better than the "shill" posters you have identified.

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