Advice for new users regarding CLOUD MINING

[joust]

Justin,
You and I have engaged in a great discussion throughout this thread, and have expressed our opinions and views on the merits of cloud mining, the possibilities of positive return on investment, pricing models, etc.  While we may have had differences of opinions, I absolutely and wholeheartedly support what you've written in the quote.  Very well written.
+1

Hi,

Sorry, been on a well earned holiday.

Thanks for that comment. With the more recent negative news around mining we continue to aim to be open, transparent and straight forward and it's nice to see that people appreciate that.

J

[jonnybravo0311]

Justin,
You and I have engaged in a great discussion throughout this thread, and have expressed our opinions and views on the merits of cloud mining, the possibilities of positive return on investment, pricing models, etc.  While we may have had differences of opinions, I absolutely and wholeheartedly support what you've written in the quote.  Very well written.
+1

Hi,

Sorry, been on a well earned holiday.

Thanks for that comment. With the more recent negative news around mining we continue to aim to be open, transparent and straight forward and it's nice to see that people appreciate that.

J

No need to apologize, and I hope you were able to relax and unwind on your holiday.  As you can see from the most recent news, a closed-door policy of defrauding your customers leads to very unpleasant consequences for your business.  Open, transparent and straightforward are the best way to provide confidence to your investors and customers, and it is most certainly appreciated.

[nrd525]

It should be noted that the Bitfinex TH1 contract expires on Dec 15.  They've increased supply as well. First offered 100 contracts (1 TH each), but now it is up to 400.

I think there are several problems with cloud mining
-People do it to speculate - like on cex.io - not to actually mine
-People don't understand difficulty increases. They see a high rate of return in one day and assume it will continue.
-It's very profitable for the cloud mining companies. So they promote it and don't care that the customers will lose money
-People assume that bitcoin will increase in price. If so, they are almost always better off holding.
-Scams and business failures.

I'm shorting TH1 on Bitfinex =)

[vipgelsi]

Best advice i can give is don't think difculty wont shoot up 100% in a few weeks you must figure this risk in before jumping in to cloud mining.

[cointalent]

Just to make sure I understand this - there's not profit in cloud mining or regular mining...instead mining sounds like a fun hobby just like go cart racing or ice hockey, it's takes an investment in your part, does not return any financial gain but can be a lot of fun.

Does this sound accurate or is there some miner out there still turning a profit?

[odolvlobo]

Just to make sure I understand this - there's not profit in cloud mining or regular mining...instead mining sounds like a fun hobby just like go cart racing or ice hockey, it's takes an investment in your part, does not return any financial gain but can be a lot of fun.

Does this sound accurate or is there some miner out there still turning a profit?

Obviously, there is profit in mining. Otherwise, you wouldn't see a network hashrate of 209 petahash/s. The question is are you, a newbie, going to be able to make a profit? The answer is probably not, unless you do a lot of research.

[cointalent]

Is there anyone on here that makes money mining? I'm yet to meet an individual that is doing this as anything more than an expensive hobby. I'd love to hear from even one person who can make more than a janitor mining bitcoin...

[wec]

Regarding the increasing of difficulty, you have Genesis Mining that gives you the option to mine in BTC (auto), if they don't just walk away with our money, you have garanteed ROI i think ?

[jonnybravo0311]

Regarding the increasing of difficulty, you have Genesis Mining that gives you the option to mine in BTC (auto), if they don't just walk away with our money, you have garanteed ROI i think ?

There is no such thing as guaranteed ROI.  If a company is promising you that you will make profit, that company is lying to you.  Mining in any form, be it with your own hardware, rented rigs, co-located miners or cloud offerings, is an investment, and as such is subject to loss as well as gain.  Do some research and make an informed choice.

[vipgelsi]

So far with ltcgear my ROI has been under a month.

[elgimpo]

LTCGear currently returns about 20% a week, nothing comes close.

[Snorek]

LTCGear currently returns about 20% a week, nothing comes close.

I think GAW's Hashlet is pretty right there. And it is far superior than LTCGear in my humble opinion.

[btckold24]

I use the gaw hashlets as well as mine myself.  From what I have seen nothing stacks up to the hashlets.

[joust]

Just perhaps an interesting point (apart from we've reduced our pricing which you can see on our ANN thread) around these discussions is the latest difficulty graph.



Currently a block is being solved every 10.3 minutes which means if that continues difficulty will go down in a week and a half or so, and you'll notice that the blue and grey average lines were both under the difficulty jump at the point of the jump which hasn't happened for a long time.

You can speculate a lot about the reasons, but with the coin price down below $400 there will be a lot of miners where the electricity costs really is a lot more than the earnings. In that respect we are pretty well insulated as our input electricity costs are very low being Hydro powered (plus we have some of the most efficient kit around) but I think it's fair to say that no-one really knows what is going to happen to difficulty, but perhaps the 'world war' scenario of difficulty always increasing at 10%+ may not potentially play out.

Who knows, but fun times ahead!

J
www.megamine.com

[silversurfer1958]

Thanks for putting this list together, and the advice, so what do we do.
The basic idea of cloud mining is sound, if only it could be done with integrity and openess.

Why don't we all chip in and start up our own Cloud mining business.
Here's what I think might be useful.
We'd need energy, Diesel generators using waste veg oil collected and flitered from Restaurants.
We'd need to replace these very 3 - 6 months as they would break down, but a typical small Gernny can output asbout 3KW.
Enough to power 3 x 1 KW miners w2hich migh generate $30 - $50 per day.
So we hold back some of the payout, let's say 25% to buy a replacement generator every three months.
then we need to hold back another 25% to re invest and buy more hashing power to account for the difficulty and possibly, create a rising income stream if our increased capacity can exceeed the increasing difficulty.
Next I'd like thew 50% remaining to be sent automatically to my Brain wallet address.
actually we'd need to donate maybe 10% to pay for someone to maintain our cloud mining set up.

Do these numbers work.

[Lucky7Gaming]

https://www.kncminer.com/products/400ghs-btc-cloud-mining

Does anyone have experience with this btw?  It seems profitable?  But I don't believe it?

[Hazir]

https://www.kncminer.com/products/400ghs-btc-cloud-mining

Does anyone have experience with this btw?  It seems profitable?  But I don't believe it?

I would not trust these guys knowing their past endeavors. You will be better setting things off with more reputable company imo.

[DrG]

https://www.kncminer.com/products/400ghs-btc-cloud-mining

Does anyone have experience with this btw?  It seems profitable?  But I don't believe it?

Knowing full well that BFL was viewed as Satan, KNC delivered their first batch more or less on time and it was a success compared to the likes BFL and Avalon Batch 2/3.  With that good raport they built up they milked buyers for tons of capitol which they then proceeded to use to build their own farm at their own customer's expense - not only were they driving up difficulty reducing earnings for past customers they were mining on their customer's hardware stealing from present customers.

So by all means KNC would be a great choice 

There are better choices mentioned in this thread.  Please take time to read detailed responses like that provided by joust a few posts above.

[joust]

https://www.kncminer.com/products/400ghs-btc-cloud-mining
Does anyone have experience with this btw?  It seems profitable?  But I don't believe it?

I would not trust these guys knowing their past endeavors. You will be better setting things off with more reputable company imo.

If it helps then we are running both KNC Jupiters and KNC Neptunes (as well as others) and KNC are just "across the road" from us so we know them well. Whilst they may be slammed they have delivered and are still going and financially strong.

I am of course obliged to point out that we have a cheaper price point when you pay in BTC (you can only pay in BTC with KNCCloud) and we can sell to anyone globally including EU customers (KNCCloud only sells outside of the EU). Throw in a few additional things like our guaranteed pool luck, 5 block details on earnings in the portal, CashNowtm™ and the additional benefits and we "of course" think you should come to us

J
www.megamine.com

[joust]

Thanks for putting this list together, and the advice, so what do we do.
The basic idea of cloud mining is sound, if only it could be done with integrity and openess.
Why don't we all chip in and start up our own Cloud mining business.
Here's what I think might be useful.
We'd need energy, Diesel generators using waste veg oil collected and flitered from Restaurants.
We'd need to replace these very 3 - 6 months as they would break down, but a typical small Gernny can output asbout 3KW.
Enough to power 3 x 1 KW miners w2hich migh generate $30 - $50 per day.
So we hold back some of the payout, let's say 25% to buy a replacement generator every three months.
then we need to hold back another 25% to re invest and buy more hashing power to account for the difficulty and possibly, create a rising income stream if our increased capacity can exceeed the increasing difficulty.
Next I'd like thew 50% remaining to be sent automatically to my Brain wallet address.
actually we'd need to donate maybe 10% to pay for someone to maintain our cloud mining set up.
Do these numbers work.

One minor problem is that 3x1KW miners is about 4TH even using KNC Neptunes, and that gives you 0.03857BTC per day at 100% luck, or around $15.
Which means your generator is going to cost more than you earn, never mind the cost of the fuel to run around and collect all that waste oil.
Or buying the miner.
But 10/10 for an innovative approach. Personally we use just falling water and a turbine to power our kit, it's much less messy than veg oil!

J
www.megamine.com