Advice for new users regarding CLOUD MINING

[Searing]

https://www.kncminer.com/products/400ghs-btc-cloud-mining

Does anyone have experience with this btw?  It seems profitable?  But I don't believe it?

1) it is KNC be very cautious ..

2) will all the cloud mining hash coming out imho it is due to the fact they have LARGE mining farms to do so
    ie they will drive up the difficulty with their large arctic cooled 1c/kwh operations and gladly charge you
     in their fees say 8 - 10c kwh rates to host with them...ie imho you will never catch up..it will look good at
     the front end like most asic pre-orders and you'll be creamed at the back end of the contract with the mad
      rush to these good deals....and wash/rinse/repeat to the new newbie users

3) someone in a previous post says that cloud mining would work if done with integrity and honesty...look how
     well that worked with the asic companies making machines..then going to farms (knc) then mining 1500 units
      or whatever it was at a time  customer machines for 2 weeks before shipping as testing / burn in (bfl)

hell ..i just think the greed is too overpowering a case study is knc now the new bfl...it will start out ok and
be the same tune different venue in the end ..ie little guy is screwed

that sad part is ..will be another bitcoin scandal hurting bitcoin..then the new scam will come...wash/rinse/repeat

[Holysmoke]

I have never spent a penny on BTC and don't even have a wallet.

I was almost conned into dumping thousands into cloud mining this week and decided to search for a bitcoin forum hoping to find something like this place.

Although it is obviously full of shills, I see several people are telling the truth and I think the OP is one of them.

It really appears that the party is over and there is very little hope in ROI and even less hope of a profit.

[Snorek]

I have never spent a penny on BTC and don't even have a wallet.

I was almost conned into dumping thousands into cloud mining this week and decided to search for a bitcoin forum hoping to find something like this place.

Although it is obviously full of shills, I see several people are telling the truth and I think the OP is one of them.

It really appears that the party is over and there is very little hope in ROI and even less hope of a profit.

Why the hell you want your investment in mining by investing 'thousands'? Maybe better choice will be test the waters first and spent a little less money on it first?

[Furio]

https://www.kncminer.com/products/400ghs-btc-cloud-mining

Does anyone have experience with this btw?  It seems profitable?  But I don't believe it?

1) it is KNC be very cautious ..

2) will all the cloud mining hash coming out imho it is due to the fact they have LARGE mining farms to do so
    ie they will drive up the difficulty with their large arctic cooled 1c/kwh operations and gladly charge you
     in their fees say 8 - 10c kwh rates to host with them...ie imho you will never catch up..it will look good at
     the front end like most asic pre-orders and you'll be creamed at the back end of the contract with the mad
      rush to these good deals....and wash/rinse/repeat to the new newbie users

3) someone in a previous post says that cloud mining would work if done with integrity and honesty...look how
     well that worked with the asic companies making machines..then going to farms (knc) then mining 1500 units
      or whatever it was at a time  customer machines for 2 weeks before shipping as testing / burn in (bfl)

hell ..i just think the greed is too overpowering a case study is knc now the new bfl...it will start out ok and
be the same tune different venue in the end ..ie little guy is screwed

that sad part is ..will be another bitcoin scandal hurting bitcoin..then the new scam will come...wash/rinse/repeat

KNC needs to be boycotted!

[silversurfer1958]

Just plugged 3Th into Coinwarz and it does indeed give $15 per day, perhaps I was toying with Scrypt mining when I got $30 - $50 dollars at coinwarz, or perhaps I plugged in the wrong figures, but as someopne suggested, the margins are getting less and less each day, so if we are going to profit, we are going to have to think out of the box, and my scenario of using renewables didn't even factor in the initial purchase of the mining equipment.
However, some on here will have already have their own equipment, and it is likely with increasing difficulty, many people will soon be using more in electricity than their rigs generate in coins,  Bitcoin or Alt.
That means that there will be a flood of equipment going cheap very soon, you can already see these things for sale on Ebay ect with people hoping to catch the unwary by selling equipment that will never make ROI.
Possibly, the prices for this equipment will fall to giveaway prices as they are esentially worthless if utilised conventionally.
The idea of using Renewables is so that such equipment could be run indefinatley literaaly until it falls to pieces because, hoperfully, there will be little energy costs.
But of course, collecting the waste oil would be a full time job for someone.
The whole mining thing is becoming unsustainable, massive amounts of energy worldwide expended to generate these coins and I wonder if that is a fatal flaw in many of these coins.
KNC miner might be thinking along the same lines too and looking at renewables, so the time for us little people to get in might well be over.
This might also mean that mining is now centralised with issuance controlled by a few massive centralised mining farms.
How do we the little people take back control of cryptocurrencies. We might still have the nuclear option in that at any time, 'we' could introduce a fork and shut these massive facilities down and run cryptocurrencies in a less centralised fashion, if only we coudl work out how to do it.
I've seen some coins which rely on you contributing your computing power to things like folding at home etc, these are ethical uses of energy and I wonder if that might be the future, but even then, people would then start buying ever more powerful machines to  generate more and more of these coins, not for ethical reasons but for personal gain, and If I'm honest, I'd be thinking aboput doing that too.
Most if not all poeople want to make a gain, however I think most also would like to see cryptocurrencioes serving humanity better rather than go the way of the Dollar and simply serving the 0.0001%
So, how do we make a reasonable profit, while steering Cryptocurrencies to be more ethical, green and serving humanity.  Can we take back these Cryptocurrencies from our darker selves and create a brighter future for our children.

[SMB-2525]

Today's mining economy was based on $600 BTC to have the possibility of breaking even. At $400 BTC, all of those schemes fall apart because there is absolutely no ambiguity - buy BTC instead of hashing power. This is true of cloud mining and mining hardware. Even if a cloud mining operation is totally legitimate, they are transferring risk to you and their pricing does not reflect current BTC price.

There is finally an online calculator that seems pretty good. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=805477.0

My spreadsheet still has a couple of advantages to it, but the numbers are close. PM me with an email and I'll send it to you.

[Borisz]

I think if you are a miner, you won't shut down your gear just because at the moment the BTC price is too low and it doesn't make economical sense. What if tomorrow it shoots up to 600$? then you will regret you didn't mine more.
With cloud services this might be different, but I don't think a single person shouldn't judge its mining profitability based on 24hour price of BTC.

There is a controversial argument on the forums in general:
1. Hold bitcoin because its price will go up, don't use it, just buy it and HOOOOOLD
2. It doesn't make sense to mine because I only make 10$ and my electricity costs 11$ NOW

Am I the only one who doesn't get this?

Regarding cloud services I red a comment at some other site saying
"CEX.io doesn't actually need to have any sort of mining equipment. Since the price of 1 GH/s is much more than it will EVER earn for you, when you buy a GH/s they will simply pay back part of it to you as "mining"."
Made me think....

[jonnybravo0311]

I think if you are a miner, you won't shut down your gear just because at the moment the BTC price is too low and it doesn't make economical sense. What if tomorrow it shoots up to 600$? then you will regret you didn't mine more.
With cloud services this might be different, but I don't think a single person shouldn't judge its mining profitability based on 24hour price of BTC.

There is a controversial argument on the forums in general:
1. Hold bitcoin because its price will go up, don't use it, just buy it and HOOOOOLD
2. It doesn't make sense to mine because I only make 10$ and my electricity costs 11$ NOW

Am I the only one who doesn't get this?

Regarding cloud services I red a comment at some other site saying
"CEX.io doesn't actually need to have any sort of mining equipment. Since the price of 1 GH/s is much more than it will EVER earn for you, when you buy a GH/s they will simply pay back part of it to you as "mining"."
Made me think....

That last paragraph of yours is exactly what the Ponzi scheme is.  I setup a cloud mining service and sell you a 5TH/s contract for $4000 for a year.  Assuming BTC is $400 a coin, you either will pay me 10BTC or I will purchase 10BTC with the $4000 you send me.  Even with 10% difficulty jumps, you are not going to "mine" that 10BTC.  At the end of your year's contract, you'll still be down 0.6BTC, meaning I've made that profit for myself.  Now, I get a whole bunch of people to sign up, offering different levels of contracts for different prices (the smaller the contract, the higher $/GH/s I charge).

In this scenario, I have never once setup any actual mining hardware.  I'm using the money I'm getting in for these contracts to payout the customers and keeping a percentage of it for myself.  As the service provider, I can adjust my pricing as needed, so if BTC rises in cost, I adjust my contract pricing upwards.  If it goes down, I can adjust down.  As long as I have some BTC and new customers signing up, I can keep on running the scheme.

This is why people like myself are constantly asking cloud mining providers for proof of their kit and proof of actual mining.  Very very few actually do.  So far, I believe Justin from MegaMine has been the only one to come on here and show off his setup.  Others come up with excuses as to why they can't.

[Borisz]

I think if you are a miner, you won't shut down your gear just because at the moment the BTC price is too low and it doesn't make economical sense. What if tomorrow it shoots up to 600$? then you will regret you didn't mine more.
With cloud services this might be different, but I don't think a single person shouldn't judge its mining profitability based on 24hour price of BTC.

There is a controversial argument on the forums in general:
1. Hold bitcoin because its price will go up, don't use it, just buy it and HOOOOOLD
2. It doesn't make sense to mine because I only make 10$ and my electricity costs 11$ NOW

Am I the only one who doesn't get this?

Regarding cloud services I red a comment at some other site saying
"CEX.io doesn't actually need to have any sort of mining equipment. Since the price of 1 GH/s is much more than it will EVER earn for you, when you buy a GH/s they will simply pay back part of it to you as "mining"."
Made me think....

That last paragraph of yours is exactly what the Ponzi scheme is.  I setup a cloud mining service and sell you a 5TH/s contract for $4000 for a year.  Assuming BTC is $400 a coin, you either will pay me 10BTC or I will purchase 10BTC with the $4000 you send me.  Even with 10% difficulty jumps, you are not going to "mine" that 10BTC.  At the end of your year's contract, you'll still be down 0.6BTC, meaning I've made that profit for myself.  Now, I get a whole bunch of people to sign up, offering different levels of contracts for different prices (the smaller the contract, the higher $/GH/s I charge).

In this scenario, I have never once setup any actual mining hardware.  I'm using the money I'm getting in for these contracts to payout the customers and keeping a percentage of it for myself.  As the service provider, I can adjust my pricing as needed, so if BTC rises in cost, I adjust my contract pricing upwards.  If it goes down, I can adjust down.  As long as I have some BTC and new customers signing up, I can keep on running the scheme.

This is why people like myself are constantly asking cloud mining providers for proof of their kit and proof of actual mining.  Very very few actually do.  So far, I believe Justin from MegaMine has been the only one to come on here and show off his setup.  Others come up with excuses as to why they can't.

Exactly. When I first red that comment it hit me very hard that people could do it so easily and get away with it. And in many cases it is true. Well I cannot talk for the actual mining hardware, maybe they have it, maybe not, but the price of a contract often doesn't pay back.

Then again, maybe in X years it turns out that even though I lost some $ back in the day, the (then) current value of BTC will still justify it. Speculations.

[Furio]

Thanks for putting this list together, and the advice, so what do we do.
The basic idea of cloud mining is sound, if only it could be done with integrity and openess.
Why don't we all chip in and start up our own Cloud mining business.
Here's what I think might be useful.
We'd need energy, Diesel generators using waste veg oil collected and flitered from Restaurants.
We'd need to replace these very 3 - 6 months as they would break down, but a typical small Gernny can output asbout 3KW.
Enough to power 3 x 1 KW miners w2hich migh generate $30 - $50 per day.
So we hold back some of the payout, let's say 25% to buy a replacement generator every three months.
then we need to hold back another 25% to re invest and buy more hashing power to account for the difficulty and possibly, create a rising income stream if our increased capacity can exceeed the increasing difficulty.
Next I'd like thew 50% remaining to be sent automatically to my Brain wallet address.
actually we'd need to donate maybe 10% to pay for someone to maintain our cloud mining set up.
Do these numbers work.

One minor problem is that 3x1KW miners is about 4TH even using KNC Neptunes, and that gives you 0.03857BTC per day at 100% luck, or around $15.
Which means your generator is going to cost more than you earn, never mind the cost of the fuel to run around and collect all that waste oil.
Or buying the miner.
But 10/10 for an innovative approach. Personally we use just falling water and a turbine to power our kit, it's much less messy than veg oil!

J
www.megamine.com

What a misleading prices, the best prices don't exist, yeah when it starts at 15 feb 2015, come on, ridiculous, never megamine with those tactics!

[Holysmoke]

I think if you are a miner, you won't shut down your gear just because at the moment the BTC price is too low and it doesn't make economical sense. What if tomorrow it shoots up to 600$? then you will regret you didn't mine more.
With cloud services this might be different, but I don't think a single person shouldn't judge its mining profitability based on 24hour price of BTC.

There is a controversial argument on the forums in general:
1. Hold bitcoin because its price will go up, don't use it, just buy it and HOOOOOLD
2. It doesn't make sense to mine because I only make 10$ and my electricity costs 11$ NOW

Am I the only one who doesn't get this?

Regarding cloud services I red a comment at some other site saying
"CEX.io doesn't actually need to have any sort of mining equipment. Since the price of 1 GH/s is much more than it will EVER earn for you, when you buy a GH/s they will simply pay back part of it to you as "mining"."
Made me think....

That last paragraph of yours is exactly what the Ponzi scheme is.  I setup a cloud mining service and sell you a 5TH/s contract for $4000 for a year.  Assuming BTC is $400 a coin, you either will pay me 10BTC or I will purchase 10BTC with the $4000 you send me.  Even with 10% difficulty jumps, you are not going to "mine" that 10BTC.  At the end of your year's contract, you'll still be down 0.6BTC, meaning I've made that profit for myself.  Now, I get a whole bunch of people to sign up, offering different levels of contracts for different prices (the smaller the contract, the higher $/GH/s I charge).

In this scenario, I have never once setup any actual mining hardware.  I'm using the money I'm getting in for these contracts to payout the customers and keeping a percentage of it for myself.  As the service provider, I can adjust my pricing as needed, so if BTC rises in cost, I adjust my contract pricing upwards.  If it goes down, I can adjust down.  As long as I have some BTC and new customers signing up, I can keep on running the scheme.

This is why people like myself are constantly asking cloud mining providers for proof of their kit and proof of actual mining.  Very very few actually do.  So far, I believe Justin from MegaMine has been the only one to come on here and show off his setup.  Others come up with excuses as to why they can't.

he bragged about mining porn and it was nothing but a picture of freaking boxes

[Hazir]

I think if you are a miner, you won't shut down your gear just because at the moment the BTC price is too low and it doesn't make economical sense. What if tomorrow it shoots up to 600$? then you will regret you didn't mine more.
With cloud services this might be different, but I don't think a single person shouldn't judge its mining profitability based on 24hour price of BTC.

There is a controversial argument on the forums in general:
1. Hold bitcoin because its price will go up, don't use it, just buy it and HOOOOOLD
2. It doesn't make sense to mine because I only make 10$ and my electricity costs 11$ NOW

Am I the only one who doesn't get this?

Regarding cloud services I red a comment at some other site saying
"CEX.io doesn't actually need to have any sort of mining equipment. Since the price of 1 GH/s is much more than it will EVER earn for you, when you buy a GH/s they will simply pay back part of it to you as "mining"."
Made me think....

That last paragraph of yours is exactly what the Ponzi scheme is.  I setup a cloud mining service and sell you a 5TH/s contract for $4000 for a year.  Assuming BTC is $400 a coin, you either will pay me 10BTC or I will purchase 10BTC with the $4000 you send me.  Even with 10% difficulty jumps, you are not going to "mine" that 10BTC.  At the end of your year's contract, you'll still be down 0.6BTC, meaning I've made that profit for myself.  Now, I get a whole bunch of people to sign up, offering different levels of contracts for different prices (the smaller the contract, the higher $/GH/s I charge).

In this scenario, I have never once setup any actual mining hardware.  I'm using the money I'm getting in for these contracts to payout the customers and keeping a percentage of it for myself.  As the service provider, I can adjust my pricing as needed, so if BTC rises in cost, I adjust my contract pricing upwards.  If it goes down, I can adjust down.  As long as I have some BTC and new customers signing up, I can keep on running the scheme.

This is why people like myself are constantly asking cloud mining providers for proof of their kit and proof of actual mining.  Very very few actually do.  So far, I believe Justin from MegaMine has been the only one to come on here and show off his setup.  Others come up with excuses as to why they can't.

he bragged about mining porn and it was nothing but a picture of freaking boxes

What did you expect? Whole title is misleading in a way to hook potential readers. It will be boring boxes or some naked hardware at best.

[Arctic]

This is why people like myself are constantly asking cloud mining providers for proof of their kit and proof of actual mining.  Very very few actually do.  So far, I believe Justin from MegaMine has been the only one to come on here and show off his setup.  Others come up with excuses as to why they can't.

he bragged about mining porn and it was nothing but a picture of freaking boxes

holysmoke you must have missed the other images - it was a series, boxes arriving then kit unpacked and racked -  here are the neptunes purring away happily in Sweden..

[kingscrown]

nice topic i reviewed most of those companies listed: http://fuk.io/cloud-hashing-and-rig-renting-services-review/

and yes i company is new.. u can never be sure if they dont disappear while doing ponzi

[Holysmoke]

I am surprised at the people who are so happy they got paid early on in their contract.  that means little as all ponzi schemes pay early on

[phillert]

Thnx for posting this!

[jmsdean477]

Anyone have a take on LTCgear ?

I have a few shares which have paid out on time every week, however the deal seems too good to be true in many ways which makes me worry that it is of course.

There is very little information which is a concern but then they guy that runs it was selling hardware before completely legitimately and research shows he seemed to be ahead of the game on chip development.

The deal is basically $850 (using the anniversary1yr code and with the BTC discount) for 160MH scrypt mining.  You ROI in about 4 weeks, but of course are tempted to reinvest (classic ponzi).

What do you guys think of this ? Too good to be true or ahead of the game ?  I think the site is seeing some big volume right now.  I am cautiously investing in this... banking some returns and reinvesting some.

Considering that you're a new user and you spammed the same wall of text verbatim in another thread I'm going to guess you are another shill just like I mentioned at the beginning of this thread.  How does that sound?

No he's right, I have LTCgear shares, I bought the 160MH on sept 20th, and it multiplied the 24th. I have already gotten back in BTC just under half of what I spent on it. I am pulling ROI first to be safe, but the site has worked out real well so far. I also have a good amount on zencloud, and I would change your review on them since the way it works has changed. They have shown the farms. Also GAW is by far the largest, and most reputable cloud mining site out there. LTCGear just seems like a sweet deal with the promo, on a small little one man show with no bells and whistles, otherwise his prices are just a hair below most of the market.

You also could check out Zeushash which just went out of beta and into full public mode, and hashnest thru bitmain, although at least right now most miners on hash nest seem to be 50%-90% in fees, so yeah not great.

#1 GAW
#2 Genesis
#3 Zeushash (Just on Zeus miners rep, and price per MH)
Interesting option not to go crazy on LTCGear (He has been around for a year, has been paying well, is very responsive, and everyone seems happy with the service. I did do my research before jumping in)

[DARKANGEL6415]

there has got to be other legit cloud based mining services maybe ones where i can pay with credit card

[FattyMcButterpants]

there has got to be other legit cloud based mining services maybe ones where i can pay with credit card

GAW accepts credit cards (why, IDK, and I am not sure as to the terms of the credit card payment - likek when you can withdraw your earnings for example).

It should also be noted that these companies have not proven themselves to be "legit" but are rather a list of companies that claim to own mining hardware they are selling/leasing to customers

[wunkbone]

Anyone have a take on LTCgear ?

I have a few shares which have paid out on time every week, however the deal seems too good to be true in many ways which makes me worry that it is of course.

There is very little information which is a concern but then they guy that runs it was selling hardware before completely legitimately and research shows he seemed to be ahead of the game on chip development.

The deal is basically $850 (using the anniversary1yr code and with the BTC discount) for 160MH scrypt mining.  You ROI in about 4 weeks, but of course are tempted to reinvest (classic ponzi).

What do you guys think of this ? Too good to be true or ahead of the game ?  I think the site is seeing some big volume right now.  I am cautiously investing in this... banking some returns and reinvesting some.

Considering that you're a new user and you spammed the same wall of text verbatim in another thread I'm going to guess you are another shill just like I mentioned at the beginning of this thread.  How does that sound?

No he's right, I have LTCgear shares, I bought the 160MH on sept 20th, and it multiplied the 24th. I have already gotten back in BTC just under half of what I spent on it. I am pulling ROI first to be safe, but the site has worked out real well so far. I also have a good amount on zencloud, and I would change your review on them since the way it works has changed. They have shown the farms. Also GAW is by far the largest, and most reputable cloud mining site out there. LTCGear just seems like a sweet deal with the promo, on a small little one man show with no bells and whistles, otherwise his prices are just a hair below most of the market.

You also could check out Zeushash which just went out of beta and into full public mode, and hashnest thru bitmain, although at least right now most miners on hash nest seem to be 50%-90% in fees, so yeah not great.

#1 GAW
#2 Genesis
#3 Zeushash (Just on Zeus miners rep, and price per MH)
Interesting option not to go crazy on LTCGear (He has been around for a year, has been paying well, is very responsive, and everyone seems happy with the service. I did do my research before jumping in)

There appears to be a huge number of LTCgear shills around this forum that have popped up in the last few weeks. I have seen them around a number of threads discussing LTCgear, and they are all wearing their affiliate signature, and give very similar responses, almost like the responses are from a script or something