Advice for new users regarding CLOUD MINING

[kotwica666]

CEX can't fall. They can only stop paying due to high maintenance fees but it is very unlikely.

Of course they can fail. That doesn't mean they're a scam, but like any business there's non-zero chance that they will go bankrupt and the customers will be left holding the bag. Only bankers get to work for companies too big to fail.

That being said, given their business model I don't think it's very likely they will fail.

So it is almost impossible to find the line between business and simply scam 

No, not really. The guy selling $3000 speakers out of the back of a white van for only $500 is a scam. BestBuy.com is not a scam. That doesn't mean that if I place an order on BestBuy they couldn't go into receivership before it ships and I'm left in the cold without my awesome new speakers. It's not likely, but not impossible.

Yes of course. But when you take BestBuy.com and some "NewWebsite.com" and you will find this same product. Price and shipping will be better on NewWebsite. More people think " they are new, they want to bring clienst - let's give them chance".. and bum!   

[DARKANGEL6415]

CEX can't fall. They can only stop paying due to high maintenance fees but it is very unlikely.

Of course they can fail. That doesn't mean they're a scam, but like any business there's non-zero chance that they will go bankrupt and the customers will be left holding the bag. Only bankers get to work for companies too big to fail.

That being said, given their business model I don't think it's very likely they will fail.

So it is almost impossible to find the line between business and simply scam 

No, not really. The guy selling $3000 speakers out of the back of a white van for only $500 is a scam. BestBuy.com is not a scam. That doesn't mean that if I place an order on BestBuy they couldn't go into receivership before it ships and I'm left in the cold without my awesome new speakers. It's not likely, but not impossible.

lol if you buy $3000 speakers from back of a white van from some dude who is all twitching for $500 with no bar code numbers. I would assume they are stolen but if i choose to buy them then risk on me

[MrTeal]

CEX can't fall. They can only stop paying due to high maintenance fees but it is very unlikely.

Of course they can fail. That doesn't mean they're a scam, but like any business there's non-zero chance that they will go bankrupt and the customers will be left holding the bag. Only bankers get to work for companies too big to fail.

That being said, given their business model I don't think it's very likely they will fail.

So it is almost impossible to find the line between business and simply scam 

No, not really. The guy selling $3000 speakers out of the back of a white van for only $500 is a scam. BestBuy.com is not a scam. That doesn't mean that if I place an order on BestBuy they couldn't go into receivership before it ships and I'm left in the cold without my awesome new speakers. It's not likely, but not impossible.

lol if you buy $3000 speakers from back of a white van from some dude who is all twitching for $500 with no bar code numbers. I would assume they are stolen but if i choose to buy them then risk on me

Nah, white van speakers aren't stolen, they're just shit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_van_speaker_scam

[picolo]

CEX can't fall. They can only stop paying due to high maintenance fees but it is very unlikely.

Of course they can fail. That doesn't mean they're a scam, but like any business there's non-zero chance that they will go bankrupt and the customers will be left holding the bag. Only bankers get to work for companies too big to fail.

That being said, given their business model I don't think it's very likely they will fail.

Well said i agree to that but lets hope nothing like this happens to this or anyother company i hate seeing people out of work due to layoffs and so forth  

You have to study the business and consider the risk/reward ratio : if you can double up but the risk of failure is 10% it's still a good bet.
Cex.io is strong but has high costs, they are not competitive anymore. The new cloudmining sites are unknown but offer great prices and low maintenance costs, your choice!

[Puppet]

You have to study the business and consider the risk/reward ratio : if you can double up but the risk of failure is 10% it's still a good bet.

First of all, its an absolutely loathable bet,  if you know what it is you are doing: betting the scam will get enough victims for you to get a few crumbs of the loot.
Secondly, its not a good bet, its a stupid bet. AFAIK, even the largest and longest running mining ponzi (pb) didnt come close to doubling the investment of even the earliest investors. Your chances of doubling with the current flock of scams, like the one you tout in your signature is 0. The chance of failure is 100%.

[picolo]

You have to study the business and consider the risk/reward ratio : if you can double up but the risk of failure is 10% it's still a good bet.

First of all, its an absolutely loathable bet,  if you know what it is you are doing: betting the scam will get enough victims for you to get a few crumbs of the loot.
Secondly, its not a good bet, its a stupid bet. AFAIK, even the largest and longest running mining ponzi (pb) didnt come close to doubling the investment of even the earliest investors. Your chances of doubling with the current flock of scams, like the one you tout in your signature is 0. The chance of failure is 100%.

If you think it is a ponzi you should not invest but people are greedy..

Some cloudmining services are building a good business.

[malaimult]

You have to study the business and consider the risk/reward ratio : if you can double up but the risk of failure is 10% it's still a good bet.

First of all, its an absolutely loathable bet,  if you know what it is you are doing: betting the scam will get enough victims for you to get a few crumbs of the loot.
Secondly, its not a good bet, its a stupid bet. AFAIK, even the largest and longest running mining ponzi (pb) didnt come close to doubling the investment of even the earliest investors. Your chances of doubling with the current flock of scams, like the one you tout in your signature is 0. The chance of failure is 100%.

You still do not know for sure that a potential ponzi is actually a ponzi so your argument is invalid.

You need to look at a contract in it's entirety, including both risk the other side of the contract will not fulfill their obligations as well as the cost of the contract, and the potential reward if the other side does follow through.

[picolo]

You have to study the business and consider the risk/reward ratio : if you can double up but the risk of failure is 10% it's still a good bet.

First of all, its an absolutely loathable bet,  if you know what it is you are doing: betting the scam will get enough victims for you to get a few crumbs of the loot.
Secondly, its not a good bet, its a stupid bet. AFAIK, even the largest and longest running mining ponzi (pb) didnt come close to doubling the investment of even the earliest investors. Your chances of doubling with the current flock of scams, like the one you tout in your signature is 0. The chance of failure is 100%.

You still do not know for sure that a potential ponzi is actually a ponzi so your argument is invalid.

You need to look at a contract in it's entirety, including both risk the other side of the contract will not fulfill their obligations as well as the cost of the contract, and the potential reward if the other side does follow through.

Each should make its own study of the company he wants to invest with. Different people are looking at different things. The important matter is to do the study and not invest too much in one company if you are not certain they are here to stay.

[Puppet]

You need to look at a contract in it's entirety, including both risk the other side of the contract will not fulfill their obligations as well as the cost of the contract, and the potential reward if the other side does follow through.

Nope. Price of the contract is pretty much irrelevant. If someone offers you a fake mining contract at <50% of market price, you will think its more likely to ROI, because it would ROI faster, right ?.

You'd be wrong, because the time before their  sales revenue < divs will be much shorter and thus  the ponzi will collapse much faster. You can turn it around too, if someone sells you a fake contract way above market price, time to ROI will stretch towards infinity,but its equally true for the time before it collapses.

The only thing that really determines the longevity of any ponzi is its growth curve.

[kotwica666]

CEX can't fall. They can only stop paying due to high maintenance fees but it is very unlikely.

Of course they can fail. That doesn't mean they're a scam, but like any business there's non-zero chance that they will go bankrupt and the customers will be left holding the bag. Only bankers get to work for companies too big to fail.

That being said, given their business model I don't think it's very likely they will fail.

Well said i agree to that but lets hope nothing like this happens to this or anyother company i hate seeing people out of work due to layoffs and so forth  

You have to study the business and consider the risk/reward ratio : if you can double up but the risk of failure is 10% it's still a good bet.
Cex.io is strong but has high costs, they are not competitive anymore. The new cloudmining sites are unknown but offer great prices and low maintenance costs, your choice!

and this is the point with which i deal..

[l3sny]

I simply cannot imagine a scenario of CEX tripping belly up. What could happen? Alien invasion? An earthquake? A meteorite?
Even if the price of GH/s falls to zero they do not care because they charge for the maintenance costs. At some stage they will just turn off the miners but in this production cycle the old miners will be replaced by the new ones with better GH/s vs costs of electricity ratio. They can prolong this game as long as there are miners in existence and people willing to buy more hashing power at better prices. Pricewise they are fary ahead of any competition and they are selling very expensive GH/s with very expensive maintenance fees. For this money they can have cutting edge technology solar powered DC with dirt cheap miners.
That's why I think CEX is well and far from falling.

[DARKANGEL6415]

I simply cannot imagine a scenario of CEX tripping belly up. What could happen? Alien invasion? An earthquake? A meteorite?
Even if the price of GH/s falls to zero they do not care because they charge for the maintenance costs. At some stage they will just turn off the miners but in this production cycle the old miners will be replaced by the new ones with better GH/s vs costs of electricity ratio. They can prolong this game as long as there are miners in existence and people willing to buy more hashing power at better prices. Pricewise they are fary ahead of any competition and they are selling very expensive GH/s with very expensive maintenance fees. For this money they can have cutting edge technology solar powered DC with dirt cheap miners.
That's why I think CEX is well and far from falling.

cex has solar power for the miners? If this is true that is so awesome alternative energy powering the alternative $$$$ i like the ring of that. If cex would cut maint fees by 50% of what they are now i think people would be all over them in a heart beat. I know i for sure would invest more in them maybe a whole 1 or 2 btc lol dont laugh im poor i know 

[l3sny]

I simply cannot imagine a scenario of CEX tripping belly up. What could happen? Alien invasion? An earthquake? A meteorite?
Even if the price of GH/s falls to zero they do not care because they charge for the maintenance costs. At some stage they will just turn off the miners but in this production cycle the old miners will be replaced by the new ones with better GH/s vs costs of electricity ratio. They can prolong this game as long as there are miners in existence and people willing to buy more hashing power at better prices. Pricewise they are fary ahead of any competition and they are selling very expensive GH/s with very expensive maintenance fees. For this money they can have cutting edge technology solar powered DC with dirt cheap miners.
That's why I think CEX is well and far from falling.

cex has solar power for the miners? If this is true that is so awesome alternative energy powering the alternative $$$$ i like the ring of that. If cex would cut maint fees by 50% of what they are now i think people would be all over them in a heart beat. I know i for sure would invest more in them maybe a whole 1 or 2 btc lol dont laugh im poor i know  

They can hypothetically have with the money they make. I did not say they do.

[picolo]

I simply cannot imagine a scenario of CEX tripping belly up. What could happen? Alien invasion? An earthquake? A meteorite?
Even if the price of GH/s falls to zero they do not care because they charge for the maintenance costs. At some stage they will just turn off the miners but in this production cycle the old miners will be replaced by the new ones with better GH/s vs costs of electricity ratio. They can prolong this game as long as there are miners in existence and people willing to buy more hashing power at better prices. Pricewise they are fary ahead of any competition and they are selling very expensive GH/s with very expensive maintenance fees. For this money they can have cutting edge technology solar powered DC with dirt cheap miners.
That's why I think CEX is well and far from falling.

cex has solar power for the miners? If this is true that is so awesome alternative energy powering the alternative $$$$ i like the ring of that. If cex would cut maint fees by 50% of what they are now i think people would be all over them in a heart beat. I know i for sure would invest more in them maybe a whole 1 or 2 btc lol dont laugh im poor i know 

If they have solar power energy they have higher costs. To cut the maintenance fees by 50% and still make money, they would need to move in a cheaper country and really think low cost. The price per GHS would go up a lot.

[malaimult]

I simply cannot imagine a scenario of CEX tripping belly up. What could happen? Alien invasion? An earthquake? A meteorite?
Even if the price of GH/s falls to zero they do not care because they charge for the maintenance costs. At some stage they will just turn off the miners but in this production cycle the old miners will be replaced by the new ones with better GH/s vs costs of electricity ratio. They can prolong this game as long as there are miners in existence and people willing to buy more hashing power at better prices. Pricewise they are fary ahead of any competition and they are selling very expensive GH/s with very expensive maintenance fees. For this money they can have cutting edge technology solar powered DC with dirt cheap miners.
That's why I think CEX is well and far from falling.

I agree with the concept with your post but not the details.

I agree that they are probably not going to scam. I don't think they actually use solar energy for their miners as this is generally more expensive then other electric sources.

I imagine that it used to be very profitable to sell their GH/s on the market and they probably made something off the maintenance costs. However with the competition of both cloud mining and lower prices for ASICs selling GHs is probably much much less profitable now. As a result they have moved onto other sources of revenue - the trading market, more specifically being an exchange. If cex/ghash were to scam the owners of the GHs then they would be unable to earn any revenue from their exchange business, which would probably making scamming GHs holders a negative EV

[DARKANGEL6415]

I simply cannot imagine a scenario of CEX tripping belly up. What could happen? Alien invasion? An earthquake? A meteorite?
Even if the price of GH/s falls to zero they do not care because they charge for the maintenance costs. At some stage they will just turn off the miners but in this production cycle the old miners will be replaced by the new ones with better GH/s vs costs of electricity ratio. They can prolong this game as long as there are miners in existence and people willing to buy more hashing power at better prices. Pricewise they are fary ahead of any competition and they are selling very expensive GH/s with very expensive maintenance fees. For this money they can have cutting edge technology solar powered DC with dirt cheap miners.
That's why I think CEX is well and far from falling.

cex has solar power for the miners? If this is true that is so awesome alternative energy powering the alternative $$$$ i like the ring of that. If cex would cut maint fees by 50% of what they are now i think people would be all over them in a heart beat. I know i for sure would invest more in them maybe a whole 1 or 2 btc lol dont laugh im poor i know 

If they have solar power energy they have higher costs. To cut the maintenance fees by 50% and still make money, they would need to move in a cheaper country and really think low cost. The price per GHS would go up a lot.

if they use solar power they might have higher costs at the start to buy solar panels and set up. Then thats all you spend the rest is used to ROI on power bill / solar panels. Most places i think are like 2-6 years dependind on cost of energy and amount of sunlight

[picolo]

I simply cannot imagine a scenario of CEX tripping belly up. What could happen? Alien invasion? An earthquake? A meteorite?
Even if the price of GH/s falls to zero they do not care because they charge for the maintenance costs. At some stage they will just turn off the miners but in this production cycle the old miners will be replaced by the new ones with better GH/s vs costs of electricity ratio. They can prolong this game as long as there are miners in existence and people willing to buy more hashing power at better prices. Pricewise they are fary ahead of any competition and they are selling very expensive GH/s with very expensive maintenance fees. For this money they can have cutting edge technology solar powered DC with dirt cheap miners.
That's why I think CEX is well and far from falling.

cex has solar power for the miners? If this is true that is so awesome alternative energy powering the alternative $$$$ i like the ring of that. If cex would cut maint fees by 50% of what they are now i think people would be all over them in a heart beat. I know i for sure would invest more in them maybe a whole 1 or 2 btc lol dont laugh im poor i know 

If they have solar power energy they have higher costs. To cut the maintenance fees by 50% and still make money, they would need to move in a cheaper country and really think low cost. The price per GHS would go up a lot.

if they use solar power they might have higher costs at the start to buy solar panels and set up. Then thats all you spend the rest is used to ROI on power bill / solar panels. Most places i think are like 2-6 years dependind on cost of energy and amount of sunlight

For solar panels, ROI depends on how much the state is subsidizing the buying.

[DARKANGEL6415]

I simply cannot imagine a scenario of CEX tripping belly up. What could happen? Alien invasion? An earthquake? A meteorite?
Even if the price of GH/s falls to zero they do not care because they charge for the maintenance costs. At some stage they will just turn off the miners but in this production cycle the old miners will be replaced by the new ones with better GH/s vs costs of electricity ratio. They can prolong this game as long as there are miners in existence and people willing to buy more hashing power at better prices. Pricewise they are fary ahead of any competition and they are selling very expensive GH/s with very expensive maintenance fees. For this money they can have cutting edge technology solar powered DC with dirt cheap miners.
That's why I think CEX is well and far from falling.

cex has solar power for the miners? If this is true that is so awesome alternative energy powering the alternative $$$$ i like the ring of that. If cex would cut maint fees by 50% of what they are now i think people would be all over them in a heart beat. I know i for sure would invest more in them maybe a whole 1 or 2 btc lol dont laugh im poor i know 

If they have solar power energy they have higher costs. To cut the maintenance fees by 50% and still make money, they would need to move in a cheaper country and really think low cost. The price per GHS would go up a lot.

if they use solar power they might have higher costs at the start to buy solar panels and set up. Then thats all you spend the rest is used to ROI on power bill / solar panels. Most places i think are like 2-6 years dependind on cost of energy and amount of sunlight

For solar panels, ROI depends on how much the state is subsidizing the buying.

i guess you are right about that had forgot alot of states in the usa was offering to pay off some of the cost to get new solar panels for residental homes not sure if apply to company

[picolo]

I simply cannot imagine a scenario of CEX tripping belly up. What could happen? Alien invasion? An earthquake? A meteorite?
Even if the price of GH/s falls to zero they do not care because they charge for the maintenance costs. At some stage they will just turn off the miners but in this production cycle the old miners will be replaced by the new ones with better GH/s vs costs of electricity ratio. They can prolong this game as long as there are miners in existence and people willing to buy more hashing power at better prices. Pricewise they are fary ahead of any competition and they are selling very expensive GH/s with very expensive maintenance fees. For this money they can have cutting edge technology solar powered DC with dirt cheap miners.
That's why I think CEX is well and far from falling.

cex has solar power for the miners? If this is true that is so awesome alternative energy powering the alternative $$$$ i like the ring of that. If cex would cut maint fees by 50% of what they are now i think people would be all over them in a heart beat. I know i for sure would invest more in them maybe a whole 1 or 2 btc lol dont laugh im poor i know 

If they have solar power energy they have higher costs. To cut the maintenance fees by 50% and still make money, they would need to move in a cheaper country and really think low cost. The price per GHS would go up a lot.

if they use solar power they might have higher costs at the start to buy solar panels and set up. Then thats all you spend the rest is used to ROI on power bill / solar panels. Most places i think are like 2-6 years dependind on cost of energy and amount of sunlight

For solar panels, ROI depends on how much the state is subsidizing the buying.

i guess you are right about that had forgot alot of states in the usa was offering to pay off some of the cost to get new solar panels for residental homes not sure if apply to company

Solar energy is usually more expensive but if you take into account the state subsidy or special situations (you have a home away from everything), you might ROI

[malaimult]

I simply cannot imagine a scenario of CEX tripping belly up. What could happen? Alien invasion? An earthquake? A meteorite?
Even if the price of GH/s falls to zero they do not care because they charge for the maintenance costs. At some stage they will just turn off the miners but in this production cycle the old miners will be replaced by the new ones with better GH/s vs costs of electricity ratio. They can prolong this game as long as there are miners in existence and people willing to buy more hashing power at better prices. Pricewise they are fary ahead of any competition and they are selling very expensive GH/s with very expensive maintenance fees. For this money they can have cutting edge technology solar powered DC with dirt cheap miners.
That's why I think CEX is well and far from falling.

cex has solar power for the miners? If this is true that is so awesome alternative energy powering the alternative $$$$ i like the ring of that. If cex would cut maint fees by 50% of what they are now i think people would be all over them in a heart beat. I know i for sure would invest more in them maybe a whole 1 or 2 btc lol dont laugh im poor i know 

If they have solar power energy they have higher costs. To cut the maintenance fees by 50% and still make money, they would need to move in a cheaper country and really think low cost. The price per GHS would go up a lot.

if they use solar power they might have higher costs at the start to buy solar panels and set up. Then thats all you spend the rest is used to ROI on power bill / solar panels. Most places i think are like 2-6 years dependind on cost of energy and amount of sunlight

For solar panels, ROI depends on how much the state is subsidizing the buying.

i guess you are right about that had forgot alot of states in the usa was offering to pay off some of the cost to get new solar panels for residental homes not sure if apply to company

Solar energy is usually more expensive but if you take into account the state subsidy or special situations (you have a home away from everything), you might ROI

Even with subsidies, solar energy is more expensive then other, "traditional" sources of energy. Not only that but solar subsides are generally only available to households and cannot be claimed by places like data centers that would be buying massive amounts of solar panels to power what is in their center